Originally posted by danmax67

Interesting.  Though I must disagree on 2 points.  Community 5/10 for WoW?  I think that is being quite generous.  PVP 9/10 for WoW?  Well that's downright insane.  Maybe I think this because I'm mainly an Eve Online player, but WoW PVP is terribad.  I'd give PVP something like 3/10 for WoW and 2/10 for LotRO.

Would agree, at least to the lower rating but then I don't PvP much. The times I did when playing WoW was not happy with it or the earnings at all.  Haven't done more than tried Lotro's but like I said I am not a fan of PvP.

Originally posted by SPLASHDAMAGE

I wanna smack people who say WoW has 12 million subscribers. 

World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules.

Source: (source) Please stop spreading misinformation, its not helpful to anyone. Back your claims with accurate sources please.

Thanks for that info. I no longer play WoW but had three accounts, two that were paid when I did play. I quit before the last expansion and so did my husband (same amount of accounts), that means they are still counting our non used accounts because we once played. ROFL no wonder their subscription rates are so high.  Many start/started accounts so they can get the "mounts/pets/etc" they offer then just let it run out after free time is up or whatever limits were met to obtain the "item" in question. That is a lot of accounts out there that is being counted that are not active any longer.

There are many in Lotro that have come from  WoW since I joined Lotro. You see them talking in chat all the time about where they came from.

Originally posted by Sovrath

I love the idea of real world housing but my problem with it is two-fold.

One, having acres and acres of abandoned houses really isn't a good thing. My thought on this is that houses in general should deteriorate if players cancel their subs. If they resub it stops the detioratioin but they then need to spend time building it back up. If they are unsubbed for a while then they could just lose the plot. That's my take on it anyways.

Otherwise you have plots that will never be used and abandoned structures that might just stand there.

Two, are there really going to be enough plots in the game world for thousands upon thousands of houses?

I love the idea of civilized areas and areas that are not civilized. But given that these games worlds aren't really too large, I wonder if thre really can be enough room for everyone without completely wrecking the landscape.

I would agree that having abandoned houses just sitting there would be a waste. If after a given time the payment isn't paid(if this applies) or the sub has ended then it should be able to be purchased by another or the plot be cleared (escrow account for the orignial or last owner) and the plot be available again to others. I only know how it works in Lotro. This is instanced of course and if the upkeep is not paid then after given time the items are put in an escrow and the house becomes available for purchase. I don't see why this wouldn't work for open housing too.  I didn't know Atlantica had housing though. I played it for a bit but after a patch was not able to log in and support was not helpful in correcting it , so I uninstalled. :(

I love housing in a game. I play Lotro and that is the one feature I love and spend time  redecorating and such. I find though that placement is restricted and the choice of what goes where is not well thought out but I have no comparison to other games. There are things that I would place differently but can't due to set hooks. I still love the housing. I do wish there was houses laid out different to make them unique to the player and a way to expand without abondening a house to purchase a bigger one.

Great article and one I really hold close to my heart for gaming fun and purpose. Not just the slash and hack grind. :)

I am glad Turbine was there and wants to be noticed. Lotro is a very nice game. They have done a good job. I haven't played it from the beginning although I have tried it along with the trials. I was playing others that I lost interest in after 5 years. I really don't see that happening this time.

I began Lotro with the F2P Beta and have two F2P accounts to keep up with how it goes and such. I have one VIP account which of course I play more. :) Yes there are some things about F2P that if you stay with it can be costly and are frustrating but overall it is not too bad. I have played others that I lost interest in even though I had full access to most content , but just couldn't keep my interest  and grew dull.

Everyone looks for different things in a game whether it is F2P or P2P. Some look for the PvP content and if it is not good enough they don't like it no matter how much they like other things. I am not a PvP fan so naturally that part does not interest me. However, if PvP is the dominant of a  game I want no part of it. Lotro has PvP  but I am not sure it is what a big PvP fan would like so they would not stay with it because of that.

As for end game content: many games grow weak in the end game. To please one gamer another is going to be unhappy. That is just the way it is. I like end game but not as much as some will. Truth is end game in most games is boring and repetitive. If you are leveling alts it is the same, but most get to end game then begin another toon so they can push through and take it through to end game then rinse and repeat till there is no more slots available to do so.

You are so right; times are changing and from other walks in life I have seen changes I would be one of those saying that won't happen. But it has. This is no different. The years since I began playing games they have changed and not at a slow pace. When computers first began showing on the market not many could afford them and even less in their homes. Now there is few homes without at least one and the difference in the first and those now are big.

I don't do the Poker but my hubby has from time to time so I was aware you can win real money there. From conversations with my hubby I knew it wasn't a killing at one time or anything but over time it could add up. I understand too that some of the pro poker players have been choosen from some site or another. Of course they don't get a free ride but they get a very big shot that many don't.

The world has changed a great deal and so have the gaming world. It may not be in the top polpular right now but don't be suprised if it doesn't make it sooner than one would think.

Added thought: F2P wasn't something people thought would go anywhere and now more and more are going to it. Virtual stores were a taboo in the beginning and now they are just part of it.

Games are not the only thing being dominated by Chinese and other
foreign countries. One might be very surprised to find just how deep foreign hands are in our country.

I feel what you are saying, Bill. I post sometimes with my view on things about games as well as other things. I don't see why some find it necessary to flame others because of their choice of game or where they shop.

I shop Wal-Mart, Sam's Club more for my groceries and many other things because they are cheaper. The economy sucks and pay doesn't go up nor has disability checks in a very long time now. So I shop where I can afford.

As for Wal-Mart employees, I am not sure what exactly this is about I didn't go through all the post. I have worked for Wal-Mart  in the past and I know it isn't what it was before the orignial founder died. The employees don't count like they once did; the truth is the empoyee doesn't matter with any of the big companies(corporations). They can easily be replaced. Most retail companies hire part-time only so they don't have to worry about benifits or when seasons are off they don't have to pay out too much in payroll. Many companies now run on skelton staff. everyone has to do more work and cover more for the same low pay. This has lowered the job market drastically. Is it fair? Not to those of us who have families and bills it isn't but don't think for one second that those companies give a rats arse. They don't!

I relocated to a warmer climate because of mine and my husband's health. I was supposed to be able to transfer to the store in the area. When I got here I went in instead of calling and they interviewed me then told me they filled the last two postions and had no openings. They knew I was coming but did not hold a postion for me. In the four weeks I have been waiting to see if they got an opening I have heard nothing and when I called making sure they had my new phone number. I am not even sure they wrote it down and put it in my file. Transfers are not done like they used to be. I had been with the same corporation for over 4 years, but I had gotten hurt on the job and reinjured almost a year after first one. They were unable to get rid of me for anything  they could write me up for , so this was their out when I moved. No it isn't right but fact is fact and if I could fight it I would but the truth is it would do no good. When you transfer they send really basic info not work history or anything that the store you are transferring to can even decide if you are worth the time to consider you. My immediate supervisor wanted to call them and give them my work and performance but the ASM over her and our side said no they could ask for it. She could have lost her job had she went ahead and called them anyway and it was discovered. This company and another are  owned by the same people but I can't work for the other either. Now that the four weeks is up I can go and reapply and if I am hired I will have lost all my time and benefits, I was full time and earned vactaion and personal days(sick days).  But we had had someone transfer from a local store and the manager and that store gave them high reccomendations. Sadly they were lies but she transferred in and we didn't even need anyone. Welcome to the real world and corporation or big companies.

It is not only retail that does this. Many companies have trimmed their staffing and what is left is doing the job of two or three people now. I don't see our government caring a whole lot either but hey that is another can of worms.

Originally posted by UsedManatee

My daughter has an ipod touch that she and her little brother play on.  There are parental controls that allow for disabling of, among other things, any purchases.  This is not rocket science, the parents who either do not disable this or associate their CC with their KID'S iTunes account are morons.

This is true. If your going to put this in your child's hands then if you are noob to the whole concept of what the child may or may not have access to ...ASK  and like you did use the parental controls.

On another note.. there are plenty of 8 years old that can figure out this and poof it is gone so as an added safeguard when purchases are being made maybe the phone companies should take some responsiblity and have it so the main holder gets sent a text like someone else suggested for approval or not. Shouldn't be such a difficult task or feature to offer.  I mean truely they are looking to make money and those companies that are targeting the child audience truely don't care about anything but making money.  So investigating and looking into things like this should be done and they should be in turn held accountable for their actions or inactions. Make them care. Yes the parents are responsible, but there are far too many parents out there that have no clue sometimes what they are putting in their kids hands. Just like computers, my son is 15 and he can go to adult sites no problem. There are many areas that need to be looked at and better security needs to be in place. If  a child can get on the internet with their phone they can do the same thing. So wake up partents that think your children won't do such things cause they can do this sometimes without meaning to. Parental controls you say..they can still do that with them in place...do you have any idea how many words are connected to sites like that in a search. Our son was looking up information for a math  project and a site like that came up. My husband went to a site for his class in child education and wow guess what an adult site came up instead. So yea some safeguards and such need to be in place all the way around.

My thoughts.

5. Best to keep an open mind unless it is extremely obvious they are done. Some may appear to be going down the road of destruction and doom but then find a way to pull it out.

4. To be honest in this day and time and for the business aspect it is all about the money. Honestly, do you think they are putting in all that hard work and time for free? No, of course not they expect to make money. If you have a gargage sale you expect to make money off what you are selling. Maybe not (hopefully not) a vast amount but that is why you are doing it to make some money off the stuff you no longer need or want.

Yes, the gamers should be listened to. Many listen, we don't think they do because we don't see our sugestions or claims change. Truth is there are some things depending on the foundation and operation of the game they may not allow for those to be implemented. It would be nice to see them post this and briefly explain so at least we as gamers could attempt to understand or at least know they had looked at what put out there.

3. Anger never gets anything accomplished. You get angery and start shouting and peeling off the words that tell others that you just can't speak any better. In return your words fall on deaf ears and you get ignored, unless of course you are answered by the same mentality thus it is a wasted battle and if that is a dev that jumps into that battle they should not be in the postion they are in.

2.  Everyone has ideas. Just because it is yours does not make it best. In fact mixed ideas sometimes are better than one persons view.  The ones that sit and work on creating a game is not one persons ideas it is a team throwing it all in and hashing it out to come up with the best or better choice. There is no I in Team and Team is what makes things like this  work better.

1.This is something that is hard not to do sometimes, sadly. We are human and the write-ups and previews are designed to do just that. It is a hard blow though when we actually get to play and find that it is not what we were so excited over. Truth is many times it is not. The roughness takes some fine tuning even after release and even then sometimes it does not meet our expectations. That is why I have gotten to where I have developed the attitude to just wait and see. It helps with the let down a great deal.

These are not the sort of games I play. But those that do and enjoy them it is all good. Those that play games on Facebook are those that have no interest in playing something that a great deal of time is invested in. They do so to fill in a few spots of time here and there and be social with their friends.

I for one would hate those ads for investing RL money in. I don't think they should have to deal with that like peeps are saying goes on. If someone is making a game that people on Facebook can play then they should not press them for all the RL funds. Different type gamer there; a gamer that just wants to do something fun and invite their friends to join them for a short span. Something that breaks up the RL day a bit but does not consume hours of it.

Very nice topic. I am sure most of us agree totally. I know I do. Hence you get to the end and after raiding and at least trying to obtain some of that really nice  uber end game gear then there is the absolute void. After you have created all the alts you can then what? I have always had many alts. One to try out different classes and races another to help with the boredom. But the truth is it begins to be boring doing the low level stuff as well so when that gets to much the only other options is to say bye and move on.

I have played two different game for over five years each  and one for I guess around three. No not all my alts were max level. There were times when I would just simply take one of my lower alts and explore where they shouldn't be. Little xp and some excitement and challenge in seeing how far I could get. yea I know that showed just how bored I was.

The only game on this list that I have played is EQ2 and I haven't played it enough as of yet to say. I have heard some really good things on its crafting but as yet no personal knowledge.

I can say that most MMO's crafting is pretty much a waste of time. By that I mean it is just a filler and the items are pretty much worthless. I mean crafting in most isn't worth what it cost to advance it and make the items. True some things can be useful but there again you can't sell them for what it cost to make them for the most part. I love crafting and for me it gives a game more meaning. The games I like to play don't all have truely good crafting systems. The one I play now is better than the others I have played but still why does crafting have to be so useless.

In RL people that make things can make a profit. I mean they make a product that they can sell and at least make some profit. Why does most MMO's think this is not important to a games economy? Same principal even if is just a game.

Well put ..

I could be wrong but I think we are going to see a lot more of the f2p. There aren't many that are as well planned and thought out as Lotro. I mean there are many f2p that I have tried and liked but if you could spend the money you could have better Armour and such and still not know how to play.

But yea I do think we are going to see more f2p. There are many games out there that are pretty good and suffering because the player base has dropped. Times are changing and people don't seem to be willing to pay a month  sub to play when they may not be able to play that often. Then there are many that are paying a monthly sub but f2p would make things a lot easier on them. Offering a monthly sub on a f2p is also good but just like Lotro you can pay monthly sub but you still need TP's for some things. Nothing that will take away from the game but just like the xpansions, you have to purchase them at the store. So f2p is good but people can spend even more if they aren't careful.

Opinions are just that. Everyone has one. Doesn't make them right or wrong, just means that everyone has one. An honest opinion is more valueable than one that just agrees with the one giving it.

I like your articles and look forward to more of them.

Originally posted by jakoblin

I HOPE I WIN THESE 

• (1) XBox 360 250GB Game Console ($300 value) - Sponsored by MMORPG.com
• (1) Sony PlayStation3 160GB Game Console ($300 value) - Sponsored by MMORPG.com

SINCE I  can not play 99% of these pc games , I won on mmorpg.com contest cuz my pc only accept 1x not 2x or 4x  agp. 

 

Agree. I don't play any of the games was hoping to win one of those too. My son would love it. 01

Well we don't have the problem you do as for the wife because I play as well as my hubby and son. But the financial end I do understand. We do upgrades or new comps at tax time. We can't afford to do it on our budget during the year. Sometimes we are able to do two then but if not the one with the most issues or older one gets upgraded and then the following year the other. Taking your wife doesn't play so have to work out something for her. But this works for us.

Very nice article. I agree with you. Many good points.

I am a more casual player now than I once was because of work. I am also older than many gamers (almost 59) but I still love to play and have been for many years now. I played Atari with my girls moving up to Nintendo, Sega and so on till I finally got a computer and started playing Diablo. Went through the waiting of Diablo 2 which EQ took all my gaming friends. Back then making friends in the game lead to RL at times and was awesome. I had many great friends, one of which sent me a copy of EQ ( my dreaded enemy because so many had left to go play it) for my birthday. So I took the leap and she helped me learn the game. I played it for five years. Moving to WoW for another fives years. Now playing Lotro and loving it. I have played many beta test and tried out many other games along the way. Some fair some not. I am not big on PvP so games like that don't appeal to me at all. Good for those who do just not my cup of tea. I solo a good deal due to my limited time but I do like to group and raid when I can.

All that wind being said there are many different types of players and like it has already been said some like something more than another may. I also love to craft but I really like it to be useful as well. For me it is a waste of time to spend hours, days or even months and then what you craft is useless. Gear that is nice and useful should be attainable by the casual as well as the hard core. If the only way you can get the really nice stuff is a raid and you can't invest the time because of RL which is first then it takes away from the game.

There are things  I would like to see in a game but I don't know if it would be possible or if it will ever happen. I mean like you complete a quest and you have helped them and yet they are still where you saw them first. Sure they may say something along the lines of "Name" you have saved us" . But they are still there not back where you helped them get to. Would be nice once you completed something if you continue to see the new  that you helped complete not the same old thing.  /sigh but alas that is a dream I suppose. But wouldn't that be cool?

I also agree that community has detoriated a great deal over the years.

Happy New Year everyone.

Originally posted by unbound55

A public company not only can lie but it happens more than you might care to accept or believe.

As one has grandly added we are giving Blizzard what they want , ATTENTION, no matter if we play the game or not they are in center stage. Even those I know in the game are saying how they hate this expansion. How they can't do things because the trash is wiping them over and over. No they are not noobs and have been playing for years and know what they are doing.  Funny I have heard how one guild is working on hard modes now but I understand that is the guild that gets paid to play so maybe they have something others don't. /shrug

Yes, a public company can lie...but they don't get away with claiming over 12 million while only having a few hundred thousand as some have been implying.  The financial differences would be way too large to be overlooked.  And, btw, we really did go to the moon too (that wasn't a conspiracy either).

 

Yes, there are those that drastically hate the mechanics changes in Cata.  Most of them have played about 2 years.  However, there are a number of us that left because of Wrath that are now back because there is actually challenge in the game again.  If your friends are consistently wiping on trash and not learning how to deal with them...I would actually classify them as noobs.  Sorry, but they got used to the triviality of WoW known as Wrath...although the author of the article failed to note it, this is one of the changes that were made on purpose.  Tanks will have to learn how to tank again, healers will have to make tough choices again, and dps will have to learn that they can't just shoot at the first thing in range.

Good point on the changes, but that is not why I left. I left because the many reason besides what they have done to the classes and other things.  My friends aren't noobs but call them that if that makes you feel better. Just like when LK came out they will have to go in and nerf because a large base of players are going to be unhappy. Challenge is good but when the challenge of something that is suppposed to be fun becomes like a job it is no longer fun. After all games are for fun.

Yes we did go to the moon and we also are destroying our world that we live in just like Blizzard is destroying the world that people play in. 

Yes companies get caught lieing all the time and it cost some dearly. But the reality is they still get away with more than you  or even I will ever know. Just shows how blind the public is too so many things.

Originally posted by Paradoxy

Originally posted by DevilXaphan

[Mod Edit]

I can't say this was a bad rant but i do think what the OP saw and played was not to his standard anymore. He at least gave the game a try, even thought he didn't really want to. As most post, he gave his opinion on what he thought and just because he had a bit disappointment with it, does not mean we get to take the guys head off.

Not everyone has their rose colored glasses on and not all like what has happened, it does not mean the game is NOT good, it's just not for everyone despite the populartity.

Fixed for you. Otherwise, you were just contradicting yourself.

 

A public company can not lie or give false numbers to their share holders unless they want to get in a serious mess. Think a little before you make posts like these. There is no conspiracy here trust me, WOW does have that many subscribers. And next year again they will give you real numbers just like they did this year and before that and before that and so on. But i guess some people are just stubborn and refuse to expect the facts.

 

Originally posted by Gikku

This is true. I was a devoted WoW player for five years. The last big patch where they changed the specs was I suppose the final for me. I had begun to loose interest even before that  tbh though.

I do have to wonder though about the grand numbers we are being fed. How many accounts are being counted  that are owned by the same person? I am sure that many came back to check out the expansion. They usually do. But the truth is not all stay. If the number of active accounts drop and drop drastically will we hear about that? Somehow I don't think so.

There are three of us in my house that played WoW and two of us had three accounts each. Only two each were active. Now none are. So yea they have made some money off of us in the past and at one time it was worth it. It became not worth it. We left even before the expansion. We saw what was coming and did not want a repeat of another game that went downhill after one of its expansions.

Yes it is still popular for some anyway. I wish those all the fun they can find. But for others it is a falling game and I for one await to see if they announce the true numbers.

A public company not only can lie but it happens more than you might care to accept or believe.

As one has grandly added we are giving Blizzard what they want , ATTENTION, no matter if we play the game or not they are in center stage. Even those I know in the game are saying how they hate this expansion. How they can't do things because the trash is wiping them over and over. No they are not noobs and have been playing for years and know what they are doing.  Funny I have heard how one guild is working on hard modes now but I understand that is the guild that gets paid to play so maybe they have something others don't. /shrug

Originally posted by DevilXaphan

[Mod Edit]

Not everyone has their rose colored glasses on and not all like what has happened, it does not mean the game is good, it's just not for everyone despite the populartity.

This is true. I was a devoted WoW player for five years. The last big patch where they changed the specs was I suppose the final for me. I had begun to loose interest even before that  tbh though.

I do have to wonder though about the grand numbers we are being fed. How many accounts are being counted  that are owned by the same person? I am sure that many came back to check out the expansion. They usually do. But the truth is not all stay. If the number of active accounts drop and drop drastically will we hear about that? Somehow I don't think so.

There are three of us in my house that played WoW and two of us had three accounts each. Only two each were active. Now none are. So yea they have made some money off of us in the past and at one time it was worth it. It became not worth it. We left even before the expansion. We saw what was coming and did not want a repeat of another game that went downhill after one of its expansions.

Yes it is still popular for some anyway. I wish those all the fun they can find. But for others it is a falling game and I for one await to see if they announce the true numbers.