Originally posted by apocoluster

  Not going to buy it didnt like 1 or 2.  Not knocking those who do like it...just sharing  :)

I got bored fairly quickly with Torch 1, but I played the Torch 2 beta this weekend and I like it.

Much better than Torch 1.

Originally posted by spikers14

Originally posted by ElderRat

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

Originally posted by gaeanprayer

That would be my guess as well. I was actually enjoying my time in PoE, but I found the passive skill tree to be a major cluster-fuck, and unnecessarily complex. It's not the amount of skills there to choose from, and the amount of customization, but the placement and difficulty in keeping track of your intended path and available skills. It looks like they took the Final Fantasy 10 system and sort of ran with it. 

I'm all for complexity, but with something that extreme, you need to give people a way to fix the mistakes they are absolutely, 100% bound to make eventually. I don't mind them selling it, but if its overpriced, that's going to look like the system was made purposely complex in order to trip people up. Hopefully the game developes enough of an audience that some kind, able soul will make a skill calculator.

It's absolutely too convoluted.  It's a major min/max nightmare really unless i want to find cookie cutter builds.  At this point I've seen enough of the game to put it way behind D3 and TL2 based purely on subjective fun factor.

 

It's impossible to grade this game without knowing their final store model and pricing.  All I know is that if there isn't a full respec option at all then I will most likely not be playing it on release.

 

 

Guess i am twisted because I love how convulted it is.

I like the passive skill tree, but it leaves me wanting more from the experience...For example -- Why, in an open-ended progression game, do I need to choose a class at the beginning? To decide how I look? Decide where I start on the tree? Its just seems counter to the whole web skill tree.

This.

While it's nice to run a duel wielding witch, is that going to be viable at higher levels? By putting together a hybrid, I might be skipping passives I really need, such as Armor passives for my marauder. It just doesn't feel cohesive. The game is fun as all get go, for sure, but the passive tree leaves me feeling a bit detached.

Originally posted by Greyhooff

I think it's better when everyone can just express their opinion, however extreme, and people can discuss that opinion freely, and just let the discussion sort it out.

I don't think it's anyone's decision to shut someone down for their opinion, only if they are wrecking the site with spam or advertising or something like that.

People usually don't get warnings or bannings for their opinion.

Originally posted by Holgranth

 

I played through Diablo 2 act one and the Diablo 3 Beta back to back, Diablo 2 first as an Amazon then Diablo 3 after as a Demon Hunter.

Character Customization:

At level 10 as an amazon in Diablo 2 you have access to: 3 spear and javelin skills, 3 passive and magic skills and 4 archery skills for a total of ten. As a level ten demon hunter in diablo II you have access to seven active skills (four in use at any given time) and a choice between two passive skills.

 

As far as low level Diablo 2 Amazon builds go you can build a spear/javelin Amazon or a bow/crossbow amazon or stick points in utility and be mediocre with either. There is barely any character customization at such a low level and no access to cool utility skills, everything except inner sight is just modifying your basic attacks to do more/different types of damage. Fire arrow, Magic Arrow, Power Strike, Jab, Poison Javelin, Critical Strike, Dodge and Cold Arrow are exactly like they sound. Pick the type of damage you want and stick points in it. Inner sight makes the screen brighter and increases your party’s damage to monsters. It sucks.

 

Stats are gained every level and can be stuck in Vitality, Strength, Dexterity or Energy. Vitality is viable if you want to get into hell mode, the rest are viable if you want to gimp yourself for the fun of it.

 

In Diablo 3 a level ten Demon hunter has access to Hungering Arrow which hits a target then bounces off terrain and hits a second nearby enemy, Entangling Shot which causes damage to one enemy and slows up to four nearby enemies, Rapid Fire which immobilizes you and sends out a stream of arrows as long as you hold the button down rapidly draining hatred, Impale which knocks back and stuns a single target but costs a lot of hatred, Caltrops which throws down a trap that slows enemies that walk over it and costs very little discipline, Smokescreen which costs a lot of discipline but puts you in stealth for a few seconds, Vault which allows you to move rapidly across the room but costs a decent amount of discipline and a choice between a passive ability that causes a your target to be snared every ten seconds or a passive ability that increases movement speed after using vault or smokescreen.

 

In Diablo 3 by level ten my Demon hunter had a couple different ways to build with definite pros and cons to each. The most unsubtle way was simply Hungering Arrow and Rapid Fire for offensive power and the most straight forward defensive abilities Caltrops and Vault, with the Thrill of the Hunt passive to keep enemies off me. This worked well though I could easily see it being very hard to use this full offense style on a harder difficulty and I had some minor trouble getting at mages and archers hiding behind hordes of minions.

 

I had more fun with an assassin type build utilizing Entangling shot, Impale, Smokescreen and Vault, with the tactical advantage passive ability. These allowed me to stealth then vault past lesser enemies, quickly kill the mages and archers at the back, then dash back to safety and take out enemies carefully with entangeling shot.

 

There are already a few variations to be found on those two themes and I can easily see a lot of interesting options by the time you have three skills in each slot. Rune choices are very limited at this level, but just looking at the higher ranks now I understand how the skills function I can see some definite pros and cons to all options.

 

The Verdict:

 

Surprise! Neither game has much customization at a low level. But if you look at the abilities you unlock at a later level both games obviously let you make a lot of choices as far as customization goes. If you think the Diablo 2 skill trees offer only the illusion of choice your nuts, there are all kinds of choices to make …unless you wanted to be viable in hell mode or something. But seriously it’s easy to make a character that is very different from most characters of that class.

 

If you think that Diablo 3 offers less customization because everyone has access to the same skills at the same level your nuts. Everyone has acess to the same skill trees and same number of skill points at the same level in diablo 2. The differences come from where you spend your points.

 

The only major difference is how the skills are unlocked. In Diablo 2 you started out identical and quickly grew appart (unless you were following a build because you wanted to be viable or somthing.) In Diablo 3 You stay identical for longer, but have more customization options at max level. By level 20 you could easily have two demon hunters with no skills or runes in common, tailored to two completely different play styles. Just like in Diablo 2 you could have two completely different Amazons by level fifteen.

I agree with this.

I also think, and anyone can call me nuts if they want :), in D3 you can decide for a given period of time, you can be the offensive powerhouse, or more stealthy, or something in between, without re-spec.

I see a similar thing with the Witch Doctor. The primaries/secondaries are different enough to be looked at as separate "builds" in that you can go as a single target killer (peeshooter) or more of an AoE (Spider Jar thingy).

Originally posted by Banisco

Originally posted by therez0

 

---

Originally posted by Banisco
*snip*
I cant really tell having played only 2 hours, the only thing that comes to my mind is the new skill sistem wich makes all skills usefull and opens a way to a lot of builds.
Yes i know D2 had a "deeper" sistem with a lot of choices but in the end everybody used the same 3 or 4 builds and skills like the first necromancer skill (that blue fliying balls) got forever forgotten.
The point is that judgin a game for what you expected it to be rather than for what it really is, is kind of absurd.

---

 

If you think the new build system is going to be any different from being limited to 3-4 'viable' builds, you would be sorely mistaken. Guild Wars had a similarly complex build system, yet cookie cutter builds were prominent and high end public PvP had 'flavor of the month' builds that were required to be competitive.

The Diablo 3 system just waters down the formula so that everyone is the same... bland, identical characters with the same builds will be rampant. At least with Diablo 2, there was a challenge to getting to one of the few top-end builds, and that was planning your character, skills, and traits; all of which have been removed from D3. And don't try to harp on about gems being the way to customize your traits, D2 had that too.

And the skill you are thinking of is called Teeth, and it was perfectly viable as an AoE DPS skill (PvE) after synergies were added.

The point in trying to get here is that in D3 ALL the skills are viable, wen i played D2 was on its release (no sinergies and stuff) and all i leveled were skeletons cos i found them fun, i loved to have my own army even wen i foun that they will wipe vs any boss or player, and i knew it and it was ok. I liked that build but was hardly viable, and i think it will be diferent in D3 meaning that no matter wich skills u have at the moment you will be able to kill stuff and progress on almost every situation.

This.

I played each class to max in the beta, and while I wasn't crazy about some of the class skills, every single one of them was viable at the first level you get it to the last. What they did is scale damage to your weapon damage (which i know sounds a little silly) but it works.

Originally posted by drakes821

Just curious why you are going to play Tera.* What makes you want to play it over a multitude of other MMO's out when it doesn't boast "20 new revolutionary features" like some games claim?

For me my main attraction is the combat, it just makes everything from PvP to PvE better. I also like the graphics (though I'm not a fan of all the anime characters) and the world design. To me the world just feels more open than other themepark MMO's and I feel like I can actually find cool stuff off the beaten path. It's hard to put my finger on it but the game does just enough to feel refreshing compared to other MMO's.

*Yes I am assuming people replying will be playing the game. If your not going to play feel free to still post but please try to keep it on topic.

I am curious about a few things.

I was in the last weekend Beta and the game is nice to look at. The quests were nothing more than fetch x of y and kill a of b, but I didn't get much past level 10 or so. Do the quests start to vary after the starter area?

As for the combat, I tried archer and it was pew-pew-pew-[right-click] - pew until mob is dead. I also could not move whenever attacking. Does the combat get more varied later?

Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by fivoroth

Lol w0t? It's only FPS. Go play Starcraft 2 and lets see if you can get into grandmaster league. But again I am pretty sure I will be the one laughing when you can't even get into gold league. That game is all about player skill. 

You can call it 'skill', but to me it's far more a matter of game knowledge (through experiece), and as the OP suggested,

patterned choices you make to maximize efficiency.

In the case of RTS's, success can be measured to a large degree on either figuring out, or reading about, the optimal unit balance and the quickest/most efficient means of building them.

I have absolutely no doubt I'd get crushed by the "masters" of games like Starcraft, but it has far less to do with skill (as I define the term) and far more to do with their experience with the game and how well they research the best ways to win.

Originally posted by Apraxis

Originally posted by Sarariel

Does anyone else miss that?

Like the old WoW.. No loading screens for the inn's or zone changes. Just a change of weather and music.

Lol. I really thought about the early real open world mmos.. but WoW? Wow got instances(loading screen) several zones(loading screens), maybe your memories betrayed you... but why at hell everyone reference WoW for things, it didnt have, or was not in particular any good.

The poster you quoted was talking specifically about things LIKE Inns and zones, and he is correct. There are no loading screens for entering an Inn or a shop, and you can walk/run/fly/ride from one end of a continent to the other without instancing.

Regarding dungeons - honestly, I can't see how non-instanced dungeons could work. Wouldn't there be piles of players/parties standing around waiting for the boss to spawn, everyone's fingers on the targetting key so their group would be the first to tag him?

Originally posted by WellzyC

Blue prints are not that expensive..

 

The hard part is getting the supply you need, Because it requries more than you can carry. Anymore lame attempts to try and complain about gems?

 

Next complaint please.

That's a relief.

So since there's no advantage to being able to buy blueprints that way, no one will be doing it since it apparently gives no advantage.

So why would anyone want to buy them via gems?

Originally posted by Xstyles

Another WoW expansion ?? How can this garbage continue to survive this long?

Because ..... people buy it?

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by Bobbie203

Id love to see how many thives and griefers are in game by counting the # of thives and griefers in prison when its released in West.

 

Players always said sandbox has a majority of griefers, well we'll soon find out wont we?

Im hoping the prison system wont get overcrowded. :p

I really dont think it is a case of "everyone"....more a case of those who do have the ability to really screw up their own game, and are willing to do so.

 

If you are part of the group being harassed, does it really matter if it is the majority or not?  No....which is why a handful of folks are able to drive away subs with their griefing.

 

It just seems like rather than farming noobs, folks would be encouraging them to stick around.  Not to say some folks dont help....I know I had someone trying to help me when I tried CU SWG.  The problem being every jack ass negates 50 good guys. It is something I feel the sandbox crowd needs to adopt as their unspoken rule IE "Leave the noobs alone".

 

Until they do, they will always be their own worst enemy. You just cant grow a MMO when some folks are determined to drive new peeps away. Let the game grow on them, THEN farm their ass to your hearts content.

 

Anyways that is my opinion as an outsider looking in.

If you're playing a FFA MMO and getting killed "Drives You Away" Then you should not have ever been there in the first place. Perhaps you got lost on your way to the next themepark?

Oh absolutely. I mean after all, the objective of griefers is to destroy the population of a game so ultimately there's barely anyone around to grief.

Your strategy, though, is better. Create empty servers AHEAD of time, before people even try the game.

Well thought out sir!!

Originally posted by Puremallace

You seriously are missing the point of this game. Sit there and tell me about all the zones WoW has and the sheer size of it and how much is not used for anything?

 

Sorry, but in WoW you can pick zones/quests to level in pretty much all the way.

You have to go through the same zones in Rift. Yes, I can skip quests I don't like and won't miss the experience, but while

both are linear paths to max level, Rift's path is much, much narrower.

And this is from someone no longer playing WoW.

Originally posted by jinxxed0

"It follows traditional MMO quest system reminiscent of EQ1"

 

This isn't good thing to most people.

How could you possibly know that?

Originally posted by Scorchien

I cant believe....... that some people are smart enough, that when they see a dogpie they avoid it, and others need to actually go step in it and complain while they clean it off there shoes.

But you might not know there's a dogpile UNTIL you step in it.

And yes, someone who keeps stepping in it whilst complaining about the stench needs help.

Originally posted by Nazgol

Originally posted by Pigozz

The "I told ya" moment is slowly crawling out

the most fun thing about it is that I dont even have to say it out loud - because even the fans admit the game lacks a lot 

...  seems like they would just move on, but guess some people have too much time on their hands.

Don't we all.

But I expect there to be a lot of bitterness, considering the IP and how mundane TOR turned out to be.

Originally posted by Pelu

Let me put it this way, if you played swtor and if feels like more of the same... You can cancel yoru account right away, delete all your mmos from your computer adn forget about the genre for the next 15 years or the rest of your life...

You mean delete all the MMO's on my drive, even the ones I like?

Originally posted by kitarad

Knowledgee by itself is just information but it takes skill to know when to use the knowledge you gathered. 

But knowing when to use a skill is also just knowledge. The word 'knowing' in the sentence kind gives it away.

Now I realize the meaning of the word "skill" can be debated, but I'm sorry, I can't call an activity that requires nothing more physical than clicking buttons as a skill.

LOL I love the user who gives it a 10 (indicating perfection) and says it's just been released

and still needs a lot of work. Then the very next one also gives it a 10 and then says it's not perfect.

So I'd say none of those, or hardly any, are worth spit.

Originally posted by Cacaphony

Meh.

 

Some people have reasons not to play certian games, and if no healing class is one reason for your co-worker, fine. 

Maybe this has been addressed (thread is way too big to go through post by post), but if there are no dedicated tanks/healers, what happens during boss fights? Or fights against a semi-boss with trash adds?

Will everyone tank? Will the boss be bounced around like a pin-pong ball?

I would imagine someone pounding on the boss the hardest will get aggro. So, can every class armor themselves like tanks to survive, and/or will the self-heals be sufficient?

I'm very curious to see how that will work.

Originally posted by Zippy

Trion keeps putting out an amazing amount of content.  I have never seen a game put out this much content.  With the new island coming in 1.6. along with a new continent in the works that will double the land mass and rumor has it add housing the future is bright.  Hopefully we will be seeing a new 20 man raid dungeon in the works soon.

Fine, but when? If a new continent came out I would seriously consider re-subbing. So when is the expected release of this new land?

The bottomline is the casuals and whiners will never be happy.  They are not long term players in any game.  They are just replaceable fodder who help pay the development bills so real gamers can play.  They demansded solable dungeons and they got it.  But as always they continue to complain as the problem is not the game but themselves. 

I am a long-term Wow player. And yes, casuals will be happy once the game  puts more meat on its bones. And I do agree that whiners will never be happy, but those who like to whine do so regardless, and are present for every game out there. 

You sound really defensive. The major complaints about Rift are valid.