Originally posted by Rinna

I don't want Wildstar to be free to play.  I want their business model to be exactly like WoW's.  Barrier to entry, submission based, almost all perks and fun stuff are part of a monthly sub, other non-game breaking, cosmetic fluff in a cash shop.

I hate F2P games and the AH crash going on right now in Neverwinter is a perfect example of why.  20 bucks a month... sound fair?  Please give me back sub based gaming.

You may want sub pay models, but the overwhelming drive is moving towards F2P models or hybrids. Wildstar may start out sub, but within 18 - 24 months it will go F2P or hybrid. There is just so much more money in it. You can either adapt or move to a different genre. 

Originally posted by healboot
 like I'm sure there going too add stuff too a game that's floundering so bad they have too try the money grab route. Btw ftp only makes money if there is a ptw aspect

Please back that statement up with actual evidence. Clearly you don't like the FTP micro-transaction model, but don't lie to support your argument. 

Originally posted by furbans

People don't come here for constructive or civilized discussion, this site is nothing but non-stop shit talking about X MMO.  From biased moderators to brownosing interview streams this site is anything but creditable discussions.  All this site offers is some marketing and that's all, good place for forum PvP though.

Pretty much... Trolling grounds for the fanboys and the haters alike. Anything constructive gets drowned out or hijacked. Semi-decent site for basic MMO news and a few decent blogs. Beyond that like you said nothing but forum PvP. I have all but stopped posting here because of it. No point... everyone shouts, no one listens. 

I found the support skills to be situational and about on par with the other moderately powered support skills. 

For example Call Owl is a decent support skill to add extra dmg on a warrior (works best with swords or rifle). Has a short cooldown too (20 sec) which means it is up quite often at the start of combat. 

Originally posted by travamars

Yeah... It's not like they have a previous game using the exact same revenue model and a cash shop with no competative advantage... Oh wait they DO!

Really? And what game might that be? And dont bother to say GW1 because that is not an mmo.

GW1 was not an FPS so it could not have competative PvP.

[mod edit]

GW1 while not a traditional MMO, did have servers and operational costs similar to a traditional MMO. It was proven to be a sustainable revenue model which they have transitioned to GW2. They have financial people which almost certainly are more qualified than you to determin if this revenue model will work...

[mod edit]

I voted yes for a cheaper price, but I would have prefered a different option (have them released in expansion packs). 

I think individual content is more profitable, but it almost certainly would take away from resources to push new expansions. In the end what you get is some minor content addition with subpar expansion areas. 

Originally posted by travamars

Right, because every single game out there with a cash shop didnt say before release that the cash shop was just about "items that dont affect the game" and then give it 6 months items that do affect the game start popping up :P Its completely unheard of, but I am sure ANet is different they are only doing GW2 for the love that they have for other people.

Thats what you cant get through to them. And when those items start popping up they'll have even more lame reasons why its not P2W.

Yeah... It's not like they have a previous game using the exact same revenue model and a cash shop with no competative advantage... Oh wait they DO!

Originally posted by Rohn

Originally posted by atziluth

If you want to see sexualization... look no further than Tera... I hear one of the bosses is pedobear. 

That's the funny thing.  Regardless of the obfuscation, GW2 is every bit as bad as TERA in regard to over-sexualization.

Is that a joke? This is not even debateble.

Tera...

And the winner for pedobait...

GW2...

Originally posted by Kothoses

1, Yes wow came out first.  However GW1 was the first to introduce quest GOAL markers on the map wow did not have these for a long time after (it was a mod for a long long time).

 I failed at reading comprehension on this point. You did originally state quest goals which you are correct were not on the map in WoW at release. People are alergic to admitting they are wrong on these boards, but I am man enough to admit when I am. 

2, Minority, Vocal minority a term used to describe players who post on actual forums as the vast majority of players in any game do not post on forums.

 This is true, but the change came about because of TESTER feedback which is a precise pool. We are not talking about general MMO boards like this one or official forums after release. We are talking about a closed testing where anyone playing SHOULD be giving feedback. In a closed beta test the term vocal minority really has no place. 

3, Tone and inflection convey a lot more than content in your posts, you attempted to state that the hearts were some how a concession that Anet didnt want.  Clearly they did or they wouldnt be in, they might not have thought they needed them, but once they realised that the commenting players (or enough of them to take notice of) wanted them, in they went.

 You were able to determine tone and inflection through a written post? Come on man. That is one of the most absurd things I have read on any forum. One of the reasons written format is so hard to infer emotion is because you cannot use tone and inflection. Please elaborate on this one. I can't find the interview, but ANet has stated that event markers (hearts) were added due to tester feedback because there was no sense of direction in the game. They said it themselves and I really wish I could find the quote for you.

Im still unsure how you think this is some how "personal" its a debate, and I disagree with your stance, I have nothing against you as a poster or a gamer and hope you go on to enjoy what ever game you go in.  

When you start throwing around terms like evangelizing... Yes it is personal. If you want to refute my opinions (which I clearly stated they were) than do so. I am not the only one here that feels this way about hearts yet my posts are the only ones you are going after. Why?

I don't think anyone can look at my post history and call me a GW2 hater. Most would call me a fanboy. I have waited years for this game and will be playing it religiously for quite a while. That does not mean I have to love every aspect of the game. It does has flaws in MY OPINION. Now you may not agree with my opinion but there is nothing really to debate. I already stated from the very beginning that I understand why renown hearts are in the game and that they are done well. Not sure what more you are looking for from me. Renown hearts or not some mystical orgasmic new system that EVERYONE must love. So I am playing GW2 at release... prepurchased an hour after it became availible. Just because I don't like the heart system does not mean I hate the game (like you seem to indicate). 

What is the point of an MMO without PvP? You can get the same experience in an IRC channel. Maybe if it was geared around world manipulation along the lines of a minecraft MMO. I just don't see any other reason to do it. No need for different factions, territories, or any conflict at all for that matter. AI especially in MMOs is subpar challenge wise. 

After WAR and TOR... I definitely do not want a sequel. DAOC2 would end up being some frankenstein monstrosity. I have no faith in either development group after those products. Things can change, but they will have to earn my respect again. Until then I am more than happy to let DAOC2 sit on a back burner. 

Originally posted by Drakxii

So...  Raiding sucks because you couldn't find a good guild and/or weren't willing deal with the fact that those poeple are in deed real people?

This will get me flamed but 90% of the complaints I have ever read about raiding is either I don't want to do it or I can't do it so it shouldn't be in the game.  Views like that are ruining MMOs.  

No, raiding sucks because it creates a vicious development cycle which ruins MMOs. Guilds run raids until their fingers bleed kitting out their characters. Once kitted out they get bored as there is no new shiny carrot for them to obtain and flaunting (at best) or ganking players (depending on the game)  who have no chance because of gear innequality. They rile their guild to start slamming the boards and customer service demanding bigger and more shiny carrots. Developers see this as easy money as these guilds will buy new raid content through expansions no matter how poorly made the raid content is. Raiders go back to holding a 6 hour job every night banging out the new content for a chance at gear bliss. 

Now this would be fine, but this cycle causes new gear to be obnoxiously overpowered compared to existing gear. The gear innequality continues... The longer the game goes the more idiotic the gear power becomes... The game starts to revolve around gear forcing anyone who wants to stay competative to raid. 

Tell you what... I would be completely fine with raid content in the game as long as there was no rewards other than xp and karma... You know how many raiders would do the content... none. HC raid guilds care about one thing only... getting their next gear fix. Take that away and they have no reason to raid. Like the previous poster said... Raiding is boring... After running the same content 20 times there is no challenge. It is just another form of grind. 

It simply has no place in GW2. Those that want raiding in the game will eventially demand GW2 become gear centric. It happens in every game where raiding is implamented. 

Lots of PC responses.

Raiding is the single worste idea in the MMO genre to date. It is a blight that ultimately takes over games to be nothing more than raid farms. Having spent time in hardcore raiding guilds it has made me jaded towards any raiding endgame centric MMO. Sorry, but there is no redeaming value in scheduling your life around 5 - 7 nights a week spending hours running the same content over and over. Once the HC raiding guilds kit out thier inner circle they send their minions to demand "new" content with "better" gear. Ultimately this creates an elitist class of raiding player that thinks they know how YOU should play your character and even if you follow everything THEY demand it is still not good enough because THEY could do it infinitely better. 

I can break blocks in minecraft for free. Why in the world would I compete against a 999,999 other people spending cash on an item for something that is ADVERTISED as being life changing. A pile of dog crap in a box can be life changing, does not mean I want to spend $50,000 for a chance to open it. 

$50,000 or $.50 all but one person will have wasted their money. This is an expiriment in stupidity.

Originally posted by Kothoses

Originally posted by atziluth

Originally posted by Kothoses

You are aware that GW 1 was on of the first MMO's to bring in goal markers on maps and mini maps?

 

I have nothing against the heart system, like all systems in this game it adds to the whole package of what makes this a decent mmo, but please dont say silly things like "Didnt want to put them in" just because you would like to evangelicise them.  They put them in, so clearly they wanted to....

Please point out where I was "evangelizing" ANet. 

As to GW1 how is that in any relevance to GW2? BTW both WoW and EQ2 were released before GW1... Those are two prime examples of MMOs with quest markers before GW1 was release so lets not pretend GW1 coined the idea. 

Devs have been on record as saying the heart system was put in in response to feedback. So no, I don't think they originally intended them. They feel out of place compared to everything else in the game which has a focus on exploration. 

It was my opinion, but please feel free to keep going at me without reason. What this forum needs is more unwarranted drama. 

Wow did not add in map based goal markers untill very late in the game and certainly after they saw them in GW 1 and EQ (And in the quest helper mod).  Prior to that it was just read the quest text and find your way.

 

Now they might have not originally thought of putting them in, they might not have been something that occured to them, but saying they dint want to in the fashion you did implies they only did it to please the lowest common denominator, you made it sound like it some how dilluted the purity of the game and that Anet only did it as some kind of concession.  Now sure, if you think handholding is a dirty word (as was your implication) then go for it, I am simply pointing out that Anet was one of the first to bring in full on hand holding breadcrumb trails in MMOS thats all.

 

Fact is once they had the idea, they upsold it as a a feature.  Its hardly drama, its simply the case that when discussing Anet here or on massively or PC gamer people change their language.  Any feature that is deemed too "hipster" is instantly the fault of the vocal minority or something the developers didnt want.

 

If you dont like a spade say so, but dont try and tell me it sucks at digging up earth because its a fork ;)

O.o

So many things are wrong in your response.

1) Wow came out six months before GW1. In fact devs from Blizzard that worked on WoW jumped ship to develope GW1. So your timelines are a bit suspect along with your point. EQ1 AND 2 also released well before GW1. I beta tested WoW for about 9 months before release... In beta they had quest markers, but hey... You have been spot on with everything else I am  sure you are 100% accurate on this as well. 

2) How you got minority from what I said is beyond me. You need better reading comprehension. The MAJORITY of players out there now, especially the ones that came in with WoW have gotten use to hand holding. Now I never said it was a bad thing, I said in MY opinion I think it is a waste. I cut my teeth in AC and DAoC... I am use to having little to know hand holding. So it is not MY cup of tea however as I already stated I can understand why ANet put the system in.

3) MY OPINION. I stated that several times. I never said hand holding sucks... I never said quest markers sucked. I in FACT said the heart system was well done, but feels out of place from the key features of the game. You response was that I was evangelizing. So yes you were using hyperbole and exageration in your response... AKA Drama.

Shall I go on. Do you wish to continue to derail this thread with innane attacks on me? I was trying to add my opinion peacefully per the OPs questions. You have some sort of delusion which places meaning in my words that were never there nor ever intended. I don't expect that to change, but I will be ignoring you from this point forward as I find no value in anything you have said and as pointed out above you are clearly incorrect on several points which can easily be found. 

Originally posted by Kothoses

You are aware that GW 1 was on of the first MMO's to bring in goal markers on maps and mini maps?

 

I have nothing against the heart system, like all systems in this game it adds to the whole package of what makes this a decent mmo, but please dont say silly things like "Didnt want to put them in" just because you would like to evangelicise them.  They put them in, so clearly they wanted to....

Please point out where I was "evangelizing" ANet. 

As to GW1 how is that in any relevance to GW2? BTW both WoW and EQ2 were released before GW1... Those are two prime examples of MMOs with quest markers before GW1 was release so lets not pretend GW1 coined the idea. 

Devs have been on record as saying the heart system was put in in response to feedback. So no, I don't think they originally intended them. They feel out of place compared to everything else in the game which has a focus on exploration. 

It was my opinion, but please feel free to keep going at me without reason. What this forum needs is more unwarranted drama. 

If you want to see sexualization... look no further than Tera... I hear one of the bosses is pedobear. 

Originally posted by Leonona

I feel the event system is half baked. It's not all it could have been imo. There are too many events that just reset every few minutes on a timer(something they are adjusting I know), too many linear event and too few events that have a meaningfull persistant effect on the world. And at least in BWE2 as they cut away many of the timed events, just too few events in many areas.

I don't know what to tell you there. I had a completely different experience with the actual DE system (which should not be confused with the hearts events). Wandering around I jumped in on a number of DEs which is the beauty of the system. You can miss multiple stages and still be a part of it... You can go through an entire area and not see all the DEs which makes replaying in those areas interesting. 

I ran through Norn, Charr, and Human zones up to 20 - 25 on three chars between the two BWE. Each character had new experiences in zones I overlapped and only a few of the true DEs did I repeat. Maybe that is the bad side to this system... It is quite possible for a player to miss a large chunk of content by either bad luck or not recognizing when they stumbled onto a DE event.  

Originally posted by Leonona

I can certainly understand that there might be many traditional mmo-players who enjoy the hearts. When I call out the hearts, it's because it was a system that was tacked unto the event-system, to compliment it, a bit later in the game development. But perhaps it has evolved into its own seperate system now of more traditional quests.

But I'm still left with the feeling that perhaps Arenanet are trying to do too many things in GW2. That in the end it will be a game of half-baked features, that are not quite what they could have been. Perhaps they should have narrowed their focus and done a few things really, really well. But I guess when you want to appeal to the masses you spread out and do it all.

This is where I have to disagree with you. Nothing from my playing time so far indicates any of the systems are 1/2 baked. The systems themselves even when new changes are brought in have been pretty polished. Also even if the number of features took away from quality (which I don't believe they have)... They certainly appear good enough to build on. As good as I think the game is right now... given the normal evolution of an MMO... It should be even better 6 months to a year down the road. 

I am torn on this one. I personally feel they did waste resources implamenting the heart system, but I can understand why they did it. There is a large population of players out there that have come to expect hand holding in MMOs. If you just dump them in a huge map and tell them to go explore it can overwhelm. My guess is that ANet did not want to put them in, but did it to appease a wider segment of player base. They are afterall in this to make money. 

I think the hearts system is well done, just unnecessary for my personal playing style. If it stems some complaints from the masses I can live with it though.