TSW for current mmos

Archeage for upcoming.

Originally posted by Sigurd57

Different games really..  Both story oriented, but they just 'feel' different. 

TSW is amazing while you're leveling, the stories, the zones, etc are all top notch!  But once you hit the end, it all kind of falls on it's face.   And with 0 incentive to roll alts, you find your attention starting to drift towards other games.

SWTOR, individual class stories are great, even planetary storylines are great the first time you do them.  It does have a more focused and easier end-game than TSW with more meta-game options in the terms of alts, opposite faction stories, legacy, etc...

 

But to put things in perspective for you.... I own and run the largest TSW guides site on the internet, and I'm currently playing SWTOR...   :)

 

But since you're tired of SWTOR, you can't go wrong with giving TSW a try and getting through the bulk of the content! 

Gonna have to disagree. TSW has raids, lairs, and pvp. TO say it "falls on its face" isnt true. TSW also has more content releases then stwor.

TSW hands down. Swtor while it has a nice VO story the rest of its quests are fetch and kill. While TSW has those it has a LOT more variety (investigation and stealth). TSW has a open skill system which lets you make the char you want unlike swtor which has rigid classes. TSW has a more interesting setting (if you like occult lovecraft esque stuff).

Just my opinion.

TBH I have nothing against swtor. I do have a gripe for BW and EA. They obviously bit off more then they could chew when getting a PRE ALPHA hero engine. To date I think swtor had one of the most enjoyable leveling experiences (story) while endgame was a COMPLETE disaster. If I remember correctly one raid a boss named RAID MONSTER BOSS 0001 or something like that. Raids were bugged and unfinished, pvp was broken, and Ilum didnt work. Swtor lost its players due to TERRIBLE endgame. 

To this date I tell people if you want a good story then pick up swtor and sub for a month. Play through a class or a couple of your choosing and as soon as you hit 55 with those chars leave. Im even thinking of doing this myself.

Off the top of my head it would be.

Instancing

Community

Linear world design

Lack of sandbox elements (Open world housing, deep crafting, class less system, siege pvp, ect ect.

F2P

Originally posted by simplius

so,,when the patient dies, because the doctor tried to do surgery with a thermometer,

we arrest the thermometer?

no, the very FIRST rule of any craftsman, is choosing the right tool for the job

specially on a big budget project like this

 

Ha I love this analogy. Spot on.

WoW (BC early LK days)

TSW

Rift

Lotro

GW

Aion

Warhammer

TSW: Probably the most unique and fantastic world out there in mmos. IF your a fan of anything lovecraft, supernatural (show and genre) and mystery you will love TSW. It features some of the most interesting characters and quests (IMO) right now. With an skill system (no classes) you can play how you want. While endgame consists mostly of gear grind the rest of the game is fantastic. And at 30$ its extremely worth it.

GW: I tell people who play wow and the related themeparks that GW2 is similar and different enough to warrant some attention. Heart quests and DEs while not as special as some make out they are refreshing (the exciting ones atleast). The classes are fresh and fun and WvW is a blast if your on a good server.

Let me preface this by saying my highest char is level 12. I believe FIRST IMPRESSIONS are everything. This is not a full review but what I like and DISlike of what ive seen so FAR.

What I liked:

Graphics: There IMO the perfect balance between high end and conservative. It looks nice until you start focusing on small textures (why would you?)

Chargen: Its more then adequate in terms of todays mmos. Its no STO or APB but its not severly limited. You are able to change sized of nearly everything but not to much to look like a clown. I would have liked a little bit more because in the end a lot of peoples chars look the same.

Combat: IMO this is where the game shines. Its action combat, no tab target spamming fireball. You actually have to aim. Its not on par with TERA but it sure as hell keeps the game fresh.

Foundry: (Preface: I havent used the foundry) Player made content is fantastic. A lot of the foundry instances are extremely well made and offer adequate exp and Items. I can see the foundry becoming a huge deal for this game in the future, especially farger into launch when we see MUCH more foundry postings.

Setting: I love the DnD setting. Its not to dark (witcher) or to childish (wow). Note this isnt about WORLD design. This is about the setting and overall ambience the game has. Npcs chat and have some SENSE of life to them unlike swtor.

What I DONT like:

Classes: Im having a hard time finding a class that I like. None of the classes seem to fit what I like to play. The Clerics weapon I think is ABYSMAL in terms of model. I would have preffered a staff. Theres no Ranger (my fave char archetype) or dual wielding warrior (2nd fave). This is just a personal gripe.

Astral Diamonds: Again another personal gripe. It does have a DEGREE of p2w in the sense someone could buy a shit load of zen and convert it to diamonds to buy gear. Same thing as gems to gold in GW2. Its not huge deal but something the just bugs me.

World Design: The game is linear. When I think of DnD i think of a huge open world ripe for exploration not invisible walls or linear town settings. It makes me thing that this reason will make the game boring especially farther down leveling.

Item models: At level 12 I have yet to get new looking armor. This annoys me as my char has looked the same for quite some time. A game needs a strong diversity to armor looks to keep players chars unique and fresh. Personal gripe.

Crafting: Its seems like its alot like Swtors where you send out skinners, miners, ect ect to do stuff for you while you collect materials. Materials so far are found on chests and little objects which require a certain skill or item to open (thief bags, dungeoneering altars ect ect) While its not as boring as wows collect and hit craft all its not fresh either.

In the Middle:

Ui: Its not bad but its not the greatest. It gets the job done and does allow a degree of customization.

Quests: Quests vary from fetch and kill to more story like quests. Nothing to exciting. The VO can be pretty terrible at times but its better then quest text.

Animations: Some are absolutly horrible (undead) while others are quite fantastic (thief).

Well thats it for right now. If I think of more ill add it.

Only good thing i see coming out of this is a Frostbite Powered Battlefront. Id rather have Bethesda make a SW rpg..........

EDIT And Relic/CA make an rts.

This has to be like the 100th time ive said this. P2P is not dying. Half assed wow clones are. For example if an upcoming mmo turns out to be THE MESSIAH and gets wow like pruchase numbers and it has sub it will retain those numbers. ITS NOT THE MODEL. ITS THE GAME. If GW2 was truly amazing (wow killer) and had a sub you would see millions upon millions of players. 

When a game such as AoC, Aion, VG, ect ect. Go F2P its just another way of saying "we failed copying wow or failed pushing a half finshed game and we are trying to recover" If Swtor was truly amazing and kept 2 mil plus active players it would have stayed sub. P2P is by far the easiest to develop for. You make a game, your players pay a sub per month and they GET IT ALL. You dont have to worry about cash shop balancing or different accoutn statuses (free > Elite > Premium). I will always be a HUGE advocate for P2P as its the most BALANCED model.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Quirhid

"Baby duck syndrome

In human–computer interaction, baby duck syndrome denotes the tendency for computer users to "imprint" on the first system they learn, then judge other systems by their similarity to that first system. The result is that users generally prefer systems similar to those they learned on and dislike unfamiliar systems. The issue may present itself relatively early in a computer user's experience, and has been observed to impede education of students in new software systems."

-Wikipedia

Do you think this is relevant to MMORPGs? Do you think it affects the sales of MMORPGs which go "off the beaten path" such as using no trinity?

Oh, and if this peaked your interest: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/web/library/wa-cranky50/index.html

I have seen this argument before. But one game disproves this theory. And that's World of Warcraft.

wasnt my first. Wasn't a lot of people's first MMO. But why did it dent older MMOs so badly if this theory hold true?

reality of it is, (I feel I keep saying this but is ignored), MMO gamer's mindset changes over time. I am not sure what causes these changes, but it just happens. 

Good developers understand this and learn to make games around these new mindsets, not the old.

this is why WoW was so successful. It tried to take older MMO design and apply new logical mindset to the design. And it blew up in success from there.

 

you see this in other genres as well. Halo and the FPS genre. Before Halo the genre used health pack system. That kind of design limited the "run and gun" gameplay design. Halo came along with AAA quality, but with Health Regen. Now players of FPS genre can run and gun without fear of automatically being set back to lose by the mechanical design of the gameplay.

it exploded. Other popular FPSs started to copy this design including some of the most popular, being Call of Duty.

but when FPSs try to return to the old mindset of older FPS, it fails. Clear example is Resistance 3. It wanted to return to small scale multiplayer and no health regen. People didnt like it. Mindset changes. Making games based on older mindset is fail unless you own a large power hold on the media and news outlets (which in ther terms we call this Hype)

Wow and Halo were released at the PERFECT TIME. RIght as video games and mmos were becoming more acceptable in society. Before that gaming was mainly niche to a small percent of the population. Around the time Wow and Halo released video games exploded into society gaining MUCH more players who just happen to go to those games.

Originally posted by rojo6934

Originally posted by Squeak69
BETTER QUESTION, explain in detail alternatives to this.

dynamic progression. A much longer, varied, improved version of GW2 events but without repeating. An actual simulation of a living world. I wouldnt need to kill 10 bears to collect one tooth form each bear. Why not instead i go out hunting the bears and they are actually hunting unaware people (npc and players) in the wild instead of just walking back n forth waiting for you to kill them.

What about you go out exploring and you kill some goblins on the way and a short while later you hear in town that the goblins are going mad (and take revenge) burning villages and actually killing NPCs. Similar to GW2 but more indepth so it doesnt just repeat the same event, instead the players who excel at crafting can help npcs rebuild towns and actually new npcs merchants would come form other towns to work there (since the old merchants were killed by the attack if you didnt save any), etc. And it doesnt repeat, instead it keeps evolving. Players who missed X part of an event missed it for good, but when you log back you actually see the outcome of whatever you missed. Just like in real life. You missed something, you take part in whatever the outcome is and keep going from there. An ever evolving world.

Player generated content can help greatly form this progression system so we dont have to depend on heavily themeparkish ideas from devs, we could actually build our own progression as we play, with the help of ever evolving dynamic events and sandbox elements.

 

Just sharing my ideas. i would totally enjoy that long term. Like i said before, GW2 set my standanrd in questing progression. I expect new mmos to have better questing than GW2, not old generic crappy stuff

This. I hated it when the devs of GW2 said that DEs changed the world. They did FOR 15 MINUTES. The mentality of it is. Awwww I missed this cool event WAAAAAAAAAAAH I WANNA DO IT WAAAAAAAAAAAAH. To see a world evolve and change would be awesome. For example in Kingdoms of Amalur I had an option to clear the area of spiders and save the village or help the spiders and clear the town. Both choices were PERMENANT. Thats how quests should work. A person clears a special named troll out in the forest and it turns out this was a the troll leaders mate which in turns causes the once shy trolls to attack the nearby towns until a group of people (think huge DEs in GW2) come along and clear out the trolls which in turn would make the area change.

The once prey of the trolls now thrives and cause new problems. ECT ECT