Why do people behave in such a hostile manner to eachother on these forums. Sometimes it isn't even swearing or anything but just some kind of  'intellectual agression'. What I mean with this, is that many people are very focussed on being 'right' and putting other people in their place. I see more debate then actual discussion on these forums. It becomes even more annoying when someone actually posts an interesting argument that people just bash on spelling or something else that is pointless to make it invalid somehow. It is like people just never want to feel like they are giving in to someone elses arguments or opinion, they will never admit that they are wrong or that others may have a point. They always think they are smarter than others and have better arguments/opinions than others. To be honest you are just as ignorant as very religious people who only accept their opinion or believe as the actual truth. There is not such thing as one pure truth, everything is relative as every coin has two sides. Some people really should stop dealing in absolutes and consider other peoples arguments, because the abillity to to imagine oneself into the views and beliefs of other people is actually a great way to come to new and (maybe) more complete insights....

Also can we PLEASE drop the HATER calling? It is the most rediculous thing ive ever heard. You actually think that people come to these forums to post negative posts about a game they dislike for the sake of hating? Really? I think somebody needs to have some serious issues if you would constantly bash a game without any arguments, just for the sake of bashing it. What would such actions accomplish? Do you really think that people have nothing better to do? I rather think think that most of these so called haters just want to express their opinion on the game and this opinion can be either postive or negative. But you guys make it sound like some rediculous conspiracy. The problem is you just don't want to hear anything negative. And sure there are people who are overly negative without valid arguments, yet most of the time people do come with argumentation for their opinion, but the 'fanboys' call them haters anyway without giving any counter arguments. I see things as "If you don't like it, why do you come to these forums" or  "If you dislike it, do not play it"  (basicly, both just mean fuck off). Really, so instead of discussing games (aka the main function of a forum), you'd rather don't hear anything incoherent with your opinion and to accomplish this the people who hold such opinions should leave the forum, so that you can live in ignorance? I think its you who should leave these FORUMS and go to a FANSITE. Seriously go there, you will fit in perfectly.....

A short example from the TOR forums (not 100% quoted): "From what i've seen in the gameplay videos, the cobat seems rather boring and not very innovative, so I am not very thrilled for ToR".

Now lets take a look at the answers:

a. How can you say that? It is just a video, how can you base your opinion on the game on such limited information?

b. How can you judge a game that isn't out yet.

c. The creators nevers said it would be innovative so people really should stop hating about this.

d. If you do not like it, do not play it/ go away from this forum.

Now a and c are actually arguments that could be valid, if they wern't used to counter the opinion of the OP.  I mean sure a gameplay video from and unfinished game may deceive you, however that doesn't mean that you can not form an opnion on the actual things you have seen. He is saying that he does not like what he SEES in the video. How can you possibly counter that? Its an opinion you just cant counter. Also if the things he didn't like are dealbreakers for this person, then you cant say that he shouldnt base his opinion about the whole game on this single video. Further A and C are just good enough to relativise the OP's statement and are merely considerations, they do not COUNTER the OP or makes his statement less valid. Maybe he does not care what the intentions of the developer are, he just gives his opnion regardless of that.

B and D are just completely rediculous, D for reasons I mentioned earlier and B for the fact that it is completely reversable (you can not like a game that is not out yet).

I am giving this example because the people who give these answers (there are a lot) actually consider the OP a HATER with no valid argument. Yet his argument is very valid and none of the answers are arguments that come even close to devalue the OP's argument, so do not use them in this manner.

Now the second prargraph especially maybe a little overreacted, since everything is relative ofcourse and there also a lot of people on which this rant does not apply in general. For those where this rant does apply to however: Maybe you should take a day off, or maybe you should consider going into an actual face-to-face discussion in real life, because I'm quite sure you wouldn't be this hostile to your mother or friends, and probably even less to complete strangers. Or maybe just accept that not everybody shares your opinion and you are not always right....

Originally posted by Blackzilla

what is the OP really critical of?

Story, he skipped it so he has no right to be critical of it.

Melee vs. Ranged, if he has played other MMOs then he would know this wasn't something to be answered in a 30 minute demo of a lvl 2 character.

The 1st quest - This is the only thing he had any right to be critical of. There could have been more to the quest than just kill 10 slugs. Do we "know" that the quest was part of his Class story arc? Bioware has said there are Class story arc quests, and world story quests. He could just as easily have been doing a world quest. It seems it was a class story arc, but we can't be 100 percent. We also don't know what the next quest was. Perhaps the slug quest was the only "kill x mob" quest in the chain. So, you get thru that and you are off to being that bad*** sith you always wanted.

We know too little, and so does he. I just believe that in order to write any kind of prereview on a game that you cannot skip anything, and see what the WHOLE of the game entails. He was there to demo the game and he skipped content in order to write a review, and there is no way to write an objective article that way.

IMHO, you either play everything and judge it all on its merits, or you don't write an article on it. Period. Plus do your research, and don't say "I wanna play Darth Maul", and then pick the wrong class for that fantasy. Anybody that is in journalism should have to review the subject that they are talking about. Which he clearly didn't

Please stop, because the only people who are in the wrong here are the OP bashers. You people keep saying that he shouldn't be critical because he doesn't know about the entire game and its the first quest, moreover you say that it is rediculous that he is making something of the game if never was going to be. Yet it is you who are making claims about this article about things it never intended to do. The OP is giving a preview of gameplay of a class. Gameplay =/= story dialogue. So he did exactly what he needed to do. He is not judging the whole game at all as you people claim, he is basing his experience on the single quest and he said he wasn't impressed by that. So what did he do, he gave a gameplay PREVIEW, PREVIEw, PREVIEW based on a quest. He is negative about that quest and hopes the rest wont be similar. He is not being negative about the game in general at all, that is just what you fanboys keep saying. He is basing his experience of the things he was able to play and nothing more. He is not saying the entire class is horrible or boring, just the first quest. He just hopes that this experience will not be repeated troughout the entire game....

You people just dont want to hear a single negative thing, yet you also say that every mmo's first quest is boring, so WHAT IS THE PROBLEM. The OP clearly said he was only allowed to play a very limited demo. He just hopes that this demo is not similar to the rest of the game.

You know what is funny, that there is also a preview of the Smugler, which was very positive!! And yet, then it is ok to jump to assumptions? Then it is ok to conclude that this game is amazing based on a single quest? As long as it is positive right? Geez.....You people need to calm down and stop making this preview more than it is by calling it a REVIEW. Stop making this OP's experience more than it was. He only talked about the this single experience, just as you people claim it was, so I do not really see what the problem is.....

If every negative thing in this preview was positive, then you people woudldn't have complained as you didn't with the smuggler review. Stop making this preview more than it is.

Originally posted by Jimmy562

Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

Originally posted by impiro

Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

Originally posted by Teala

::sniffles::  I am not allowed to discuss my issues with the game because I have been labeled a hater of it.  ::sigh::  On these boards we're not allowed to voice our concerns and criticisms - unless you wish to be labeled a hater.

Oh, so your not allowed to criticise anything, well that's bad. I'll remember that next time.

No you are not. Go to another game if you do not like it! You do not have to play it! Hater!!!!!! You just hate just because you are troll that likes to hate on games for the sake of hating, because that is what trolls do, they hate and troll...and stuff!!!! Go away, this isn't a discussionboard or something...geeez.

I thought trolls were people who post negative things about "themselves" rather then criticism, since when was criticism classed as trolling?

You criticised the accent used. One of the lamest excuses to hate a game I've ever heard.

Ye you are just looking for excuses to hate this game, its so obvious!!!!! Hater!!!!!

....huh...????

Originally posted by rhinok

Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

Hello, I've just watched the newest videos where you see group play (Smuggler and Trooper, Sith Warrior and Sith Inquiz, Bounty Hunter and Imperial Agent) and I feel disappointed with this game now becauser all the main characters you play as all have British accents which is strange (I know I'm British myself but I would have thought there would be more American accents for this game) and I have to admit the character design is really bad.

You would have thought the Twi'lek Smuggler would have a different model design but instead she looks like they have just altered the female Human design and made her green with head tails. And the dialogue, it's terrible, I was really expecting better but I think I'll pass on this game.

So who else here feels disappointed with the game?

Kind of hard to be disappointed in something that isn't playable yet.

Irrespective of that, the issues you've brought up (British vs. American accents and the character model) are a bit silly and really have nothing to do with the game, but more to do with your perception of "how things should be".  That being said, you're welcome to your opinion.  I'll just wait to see if it's a good game...

~Ripper

You can still be dissapointed in the things you see in videos....

Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

Originally posted by impiro

Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

Originally posted by Teala

::sniffles::  I am not allowed to discuss my issues with the game because I have been labeled a hater of it.  ::sigh::  On these boards we're not allowed to voice our concerns and criticisms - unless you wish to be labeled a hater.

Oh, so your not allowed to criticise anything, well that's bad. I'll remember that next time.

No you are not. Go to another game if you do not like it! You do not have to play it! Hater!!!!!! You just hate just because you are troll that likes to hate on games for the sake of hating, because that is what trolls do, they hate and troll...and stuff!!!! Go away, this isn't a discussionboard or something...geeez.

I thought trolls were people who post negative things about "themselves" rather then criticism, since when was criticism classed as trolling?

Lol i really do not know actually. I just assumed ' trolls' = ' haters' Because they always say that when some1 posts a list of negative things: ' You troll!!". I really do not know the definition, I just like being sarcastic for the sake of being sarcastic, that is what I do ;).

Originally posted by Pigozz

Phrases that are getting really on my nerves as time goes :

Voice overed MMO means innovative/awesome MMO

Swtor does not copy wow because wow copied other games (but clearly TOR IS copying WoW)

Excuse that Tor is JUST enhancing well-working mechanics ...god damn it this is no excuse for such a huge budget

TOR will be the best game ever and it will change the MMO scene....*TIRED*

Its 10 months from release - things will change! ...people here really dont know what trouble is with launching an MMO

Space combat will be an expansion

The game will be well polished! ...seriously guys..where are you getting that??

Dont like it, dont tell us, dont play it ...welcome to the age of no discussion allowed

Much more content will be shown, BW is just tight-lipped ...no they arent(they showed us space ships in the time they didnt even know if they'll be customizable)

...

there are more but those are THE ones I trully hate...

Dont get me wrong Im no hater, Im just looking objectively at the game and I will play BECAUSE of the story...but that doesnt make it AAA MMO...

I like SWTOR but god dont be such a blind sheeps some of you here...

This. I was affraid I had to repeat this again as I actually made multiple posts with the same message, but you did it for me. Thank you so much!

1 more line to add:

It is BIOWARE!!!! So it will rock!!!! Yep, they said the same of MYTHIC, they created DAoC!!!......and failed with WaR in every possible way.

It is hilarious how people think that 9 months from release is a lot....it is nothing...

Oh shit: I love BIOWARE and I LOVE Star Wars. But I guess im still a hater.... Yep, I came here for the purpose of bitching about your beloved game, because that is what I love to do.....

Originally posted by Hrimnir

Originally posted by Edli

Originally posted by storyless

Personally, I think discussion is harmless. This project has its supporters and critics, some more or less rational than others. It doesn't hurt anyone to let everyone be heard.

 

Exactly. There isn't a ridiculous criticism. Peoples want different things from this mmo. Of course the game will not satisfy anyone but giving your opinion doesn't really harm the game. I doubt anyone would want for this game to fail or any other game for that matter. The problem is that fanbois, who are exited see the criticism as an attack to their dear game.

Patently FALSE.  The idea that a criticism can't be ridiculous is 100% wrong.  I can give you many examples.  I agree 100% with the OP in regards to this game, mainly because the open world open class pvp crowd tend to be by far the most ridiculous people on these forums and are the worst part of the MMO community, in my opinion.  They're the most inflexible about what they want in a game.  They're like christians in that rather than 1 major group with varying opinions, they have 200 different subgroups that have 95% overlapping beliefs in what they want, but because of 1 minor niggle point they feel like they have to differentiate themselves and thusly hating each other (try calling a baptist a calvanist, or vice versa, you'll get an idea of what i'm talking about).

So yes, the OP is right. That crowd conjured up their own expectations of what the game would be based entirely off of their predispositions and desire for a return to the glory days of SWG.  The developes never said or did anything even remotely in line to support that line of reasoning.  It was entirely in the minds of that crowd of players.  So yes, them criticizing the game for not being what they assumed it would be is absurd and wrong, and entirely unjustified.  Its like going to a Ming Jon's Chinese Palace and then getting pissed because they don't serve carne asada burritos.

Yes, you are so right.....everybody is the same!!! And every critical person is critical because of the exact reasons you proposed. Furthermore, criticising things by projecting their own subjective standpoints on something is wrong! Really? You got to be kidding me. Maybe we should just close these forums then....

No offense, but you apply a lot more to your own conjured analogy than ' that'  crowd.

People can criticise things without it being something they WANTED or  BELIEVED it would be, Some peopel criticise BW for doing the same and lack of innovation. That is their opinion. The people you describe in your reply excist, yet you are overgeneralizing, like some more people are doing. There are only few haters that realy criticise this game for not having things they want, they rather criticise it on things they think are not very good in general. That has nothing to do with false beliefs.

Originally posted by Pigozz

some of the fanatism seems ridiculous

This.

OP, not everybody is citicizing it in this manner. Some people do indeed criticize it on things that the game was never ment to be, but not all of them claim that there was a time when they believed the game was. They just criticize it in general for not trying something new or for catering to mainstream MMO players (i am a mainstream MMO player btw, just not a mainstream gamer in general).  Personaly I think this people do have a point, its is true that bioware is doing nothing new so far except for the story elements. This is cirticism that is very opinion related. Many people may have no problem with the lack of innovation and there is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.

Further more, the fans of this game are go -I LOVE BIOWARE- ing way to far in dismissing some of the criticism and therefore, some critical people might hyperbole on their opinions. It is frustrating the way the fans tread some very well argumented criticism wtih very bad and unargu -I LOVE STARWARS- mented replies. It seems that the fans believe there is such a thing as haters, people who want to destroy their beloved game and want it to fail, and want to destroy the fun for the fans. They argue that they do this because they want to defend their own game or just dont like it in general and want to ' troll'. This is the most rediculous tenedency i have ever heard of and is also completely false. Other than some hormonous 15 year old who would do things that I stated above, most peopel do not HATE a game for the sake of hating it or because they fear  for their beloved MMO. Just because some people are cirtical of things they see or hear, doesnt mean they hate the game or developer or entire genre or whatever.

- I LOVE BIOWARE AND I LOVE STARWARS-

I have seen things like this: "The combat looks crappy in the vids"

Reply from fan: "Omg you people look for things to hate, HATERS."

WHAT?

More blind replies by the fans:

A. Haters cant really say anything about the game because we hardly know anything yet.

B. The videos that some people dislike so far do not say anything about the game's final state.

C. Just because there hasnt been said anythign on that subject, doesnt mean it wont be there. It is still 9 months b4 launch.

(Do you see how all these things can be used on the fans aswell: Why do you love this game? You do not know anything!)

How much things can be done in 9 months. 9months isnt that much and all the plans on the major features etc have mostly been made. That is why it worries -I LOVE BIOWARE AND STARWARS-  me that BW is vague and withholding on information. I am affraid that they do not want to give negative answers and therefore dont answer them. Im affraid of fiasco like with Mythic. I can tell you this: In 9 months, BW is not going to: Change the combat and other things we saw in the vids that were not very good (imho) + at all those features they talked about but that we havnt seen yet + are going to implant even more features that they havnt answered upon yet such as space combat etc. It is not going to happen, not all together. So why do they not show some of those features they talked about? Why so vague? They are going to change it all within 9 months? You peopl realize that in those 9 months the game must be: Bug free, servers must work properly, must be shiped etc. You do realize that there is little time to implant new features at this point or ever THINK of extra features? I' am not saying that this proves anything. It could be that they just withold info and material from us eventhough it is completed. However it is interesting to think about it.

-I LOVE BIOWARE AND STARWARS-

-I LOVE BIOWARE AND STARWARS-

I figured and I'd better repeat that sometimes in the post so that people wont call me a hater. But be carefull ' lovers'  I might be a Troll in DISGUISE!!!! Maybe i am just pretending so that i can be negative about a game, because that is something I just really like to do and spent time on. Yes you got me....................

All im saying is that there are plenty of things to be critical about when it comes to ToR. I'm not going to to repeat them all since there is plenty of topics you can find it in. This critique is not absolute, you can discuss it and have OPINIONS about it. Some people might think something is bad while others do not. But ofcourse the people who find something to be bad should just leave and dont play the game. It is not like this is a discussion board or anything, go away!

Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

From the THQ webiste.

On the very edge of the galaxy lies the Sargos Sector. For centuries it was rendered uninhabitable and isolated by volatile Warp Storms. Even now, deep within the sector the very fabric of reality is unraveling. Only the ancient Sentinel Devices hold the Warp at bay. 

 

But the ravages of time and meddling of humanity have weakened the Sentinel Devices—and now, the battle for these lost worlds is at hand. Drawn to the conflict, the great races of the galaxy descend upon the Sargos Sector, seeking to preserve reality—or to tear it asunder.

 

Side with the forces of Order, or the vile hosts of Destruction, in a war that will unlock ancient secrets, reveal dark purposes, and determine the fate of the Sargos Sector. For in this dark millennium, there is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter.

 
http://us.thq.com/us/game/detail/5991

 

This yells "steaming pile of poo" to me.

2-factions. In one area. With a "story".

Amazingly my hype rating fell from 9 to 1 in about 30 seconds flat.

I'll leave it to others to analyze how awesomely wrong this is. I'm redirecting my attentions elsewhere. "WH40K MMO? What WH40K MMO? Oh that, meh. Yawn."

Thanks for this. Again the basic setup that is doomed to fail. order and destruction...ugh.....

Well, at least now I do not have to keep this in mind and can I let the hype pass me by

Originally posted by Psycho2k

Originally posted by stayontarget

What you people should be thinking about is why they have not come out and said what it will be like and end this rumor once and for all.

I think there silence speaks volumes on the matter.

Why should they release all the info about the game now?  The fact that they haven't is whats creating a lot of debates about the game, be it good or bad opinions it's still got people talking about the game which is probably exactly what they are trying to do.

This, or they just avoid saying anything negative....time will tell. But the fact that they didn't say anything about spacecombat or exploration when they revealed the ships, seemed like avoiding negative criticism. I do not believe that they will still reveal combat or exploration in space and they just avoided the specific topic to not give any negative information. I'm sorry but since the WaR scam by mythic, I do not rely on promises anymore. But its BIOWARE!. Ye, i remember: It is MYTHIC!!!!! THEY CREATED DAOC!!!!.....

This is more Lucas' fault. He made the horrible prequels that were focussed on kids and mindless action. Lightsabers were so overused that they started to became dull and uninteresting. All the mystical aspects of Jedi were dropped for cool moves and mindless action. For those who do think the prequels were good:

I beg you to watch this as it sums up the flaws of the prequels perfectly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI

I try to pretend the prequels were never made...

I think the 'lovers' should not be so offended when someone is critical about ToR. I do not hate ToR and I do not want it to fail. Why would anyone want that? Seriously it is the same standard response as "go back to wow"  etc. I love starwars and bioware but I do have some worries about the game, I am so sorry that I dare to be objective....

The reason i'm critical and doubting ToR is because of the information and footage they have NOT given us. I'm not saying that the given footage gives a perspective of the entire game, but it is weird that bioware gives us this footage that isn't much different from the previous footage. Look at it this way:

The ships were revealed and everybody was like ' yeeaah!' . However the objective people already said that it would probably be similar to Kotor and that would imply that there is no space combat/travel and it was just housing. However you 'lovers' instantly whent ragemode to these people saying things like "you dont know that, so stfu hater" and "they will reveal it later, so stfu". The problem is your logic. Why would bioware reveal ships but not reveal spacecombat or travel. Why would they keep that from us? The thing is that in these kind of reveals, they want to focus on the postive and avoid anything that is negative or dissapointing. So that is why they wouldn't say "there will be no space combat"  as there won't be any and this is not positive. If there would be, they would have stated so because everybody would love it and increases the hype etc. The same thing goes for the open world. They keep saying that it is an open world, however the footage never confirms it. It has been a debate for a long time now, so to deplete this negative criticism you would think they would give us footage that showed us an actual openworld.

The things that im affraid of is the things they havn't said yet. When you ask something like will there be space combat, and the developer doesn't answer it, it is quite possible that there won't be any. Bioware's silence and vagueness on these subjects might confirm more than you think. Or maybe i'm just wrong. Time will tell. I still have hope!

Originally posted by Wharg0ul

Originally posted by Lidane

 I'm just the one who merely sees a company applying a successful price model from one game to another.

Yep. Because you fail to see the big picture.

Or.... do you have stock in the company or something?? I don't see any other reason you would so adamantly defend a company screwing people over for money.

No you fail too see any picture at all because of blind hate and irrational fear and assumptions. F2P models CAN be used succesfully as long they use it in the right way. And that is what this company did. All the negative arguments the haters have are based on F2P models that are totally different from the one Turbine is using. Sure, you can say it is your opinion and right to dislike it.  Yes, but your opinion is not based on well reasoned arguments, because you are generalizing.  The same as people who dislike muslims because they are aggressive are not entitled (people do not accept it) to say "It is my opinion I can think whatever I want", because they are generalizing and therefore people do not accept such a shallow opinion.

Im not saying it is wrong that you dislike it, im just saying because you have arguments that are not well reasoned or make no sense, people are not going to accept it easily. Especially when you say things that are completly false, such as Turbine is screwing people over for money, they are not. They are not charging anything extra to subscribers and are not changing any major gameplay mechanics. They only add a cashshop that includes items that: Allow people acces to more content, the kind of content subscribers will already have. Or items that have either no impact at all and might even be available in game for subscribers (we do not know).  So what exactly is frustrating you? How are they screwing you over exactly? Because they give you all the content + extra credits so that you can buy expansions for free in the end? Huh? Why were you angry again?.

Principles, ok, but they are your loss when they are based on false assumptions. I always choose P2P over those F2P asian games that you can download. However those F2P games are nowhere near the model Turbine is using. Eventhough I prefer P2P, I do not think it is impossible to either use a combination that offers a choise between F2P or P2P or some other extended trial model that is free in a succefull and pleasant way. You can hardly call Lotro a F2P game. The free content is very limited and people can hand pick the content they like to pay for and not, and if you do not want this you can subscribe! Everybody happy (except you I guess)

Exactly my feelings....

I really want to like this game as I love star wars. But the human models are just so damn ugly and lame. I do not dislike all models, just the human ones. And the lightsabers uuhgggg.....dont get me started. Dont get me wrong, im no graphics whore, it is the artstyle i dislike. The art style of WoW i loved and it worked great with that game, but with star wars, no sir.......

Originally posted by OnyxBMW

To me, the deal breaker for GW2 is if they:

A) Do multiclassing again

and B) have millions upon millions of skills, let alone combinations.

 

Yes, I'm exaggerating, but hear me out.  The main turn off of GW for me was that, for each class, you had (at first) 5 other classes you could combo with.  The elementalist by eye of the north had over 140 skills to itself.  Scattered, in typical fashion, to practically hundreds of trainers scattered to the four winds.  You needed a strategy guide just to know what all the skills were, let alone their location.

Using 140 skills alone to create a character was a nightmare, especially considering many abilities shared others very similar to each other, if not exact clones -of- each other.  Throw in the fact that, by nightfall, you had -9- other classes you could potentially pair with, where many of those had over 100 skills each, and my obsessive compulsive self ended up spending hours undermining my fun pretending I could create a great skill combo that was A) fun to me and B) effective, and I ended up never getting anything useful done due to complete and utter bloat.

Nevermind that the multiclass system just ended up muddying the waters.  Instead of creating unique classes that could be easily identified to allow for pre-planning of how to attack a situation, you ended up with never really knowing how a class would play, let alone a group of people.

You practically had to be a major in statistics just to understand how to min/max a character out properly, and it undermined and ruined the game utterly for me.

 

The heavily instanced nature kinda sucked, but at least it wasn't murderous to gameplay like the skill system ended up being.

 

Beyond that, it'd be nice to not have arena-style PVP (ALA team, random team, GVG, etc).  That style of gameplay never appealed to me.  However, the map Fort Aspenwood was always fun for me, since it had a fun objective and required much thought by the attackers and defenders to both defend and attack it, requiring proper balance and objectives.

As long as PVP is objective based, and not "kill the other team dead", and the skill system isn't hyper-bloated, GW2 looks to be a shoe-in for an awesome game for my repertoire.

You disliked the multi-classes? That is what  made the PVP in GW so great. Hear yourself, you dont want it because it offers  too much variation? You really want to be able to statisticly decide a pvp match? REALLY? I dont know but i think you miss the point of video games. It is boring if there is a best setup for each class, it makes the pvp static and statistic and kills the fun overall. It is the intuitive and smart combo's that players/guilds come up with that makes PvP interesting. How boring is it when you can predict outcomes of a match because you can predict what setup the foe uses.

edit* Bah, just saw that there will be no sec.profs :( You win i guess...

If there are still keys left, I would like to try the BETA aswell.

Do not really want a key, but its nice for those who do want one. Maybe you should consider getting another network? Coz I do not see you play a MMO with that connection.

Originally posted by altairzq

Originally posted by impiro

Originally posted by altairzq

Looks more like a FPS.

It's defined as:

# Genre: First person not so massively multi player online procedural adventure game.

 

What makes it' sandbox for you?

I think I could better ask you the same question.

The fact that it has FP view and has shooter elements in it has nothing to with whether or not it is sandbox. Sandbox, for me, is (complete) freedom to mess around in a interactive world. You can simply look at the name "sandbox" and then imagine what it means: You are in a gigantic sandbox and you do whatever want in it, is totally up to you. There is no main story line or main attractions like in "themepark" games. You just mess around and see what happens. Being creative is really important to enjoy a sandbox game imho. You can compare it with the GTA games, I played allmost every GTA game (I hated san andreas) and I never completed any of the storylines. I like the games because it has an interactive world were I can do stuff in, and make my own story.

 

Something like Second Life makes a sandbox to me. I can build a hat, a car or a whole game there. I can earn a living dancing, building scripts, making clothes, or selling my body, I can set up a conference room for my company, or friends, I can do anything.

In Love i can shoot at things and set up structures with doors that open and close, so I can shoot at them. Is that a sandbox for you?

I think you have a whole different view and that is ok.

Like I said before, sandbox for me is freedom and do what you want. However, this does not mean that a sandbox game does not have a focus. It may have a focus or direction and within that you are free to do as you please and be creative. For me it isn't just the THINGS you can do, its also HOW you do them. The fact that I can be creative and create whatever I want wherever I want makes this game a sandbox game to me. Plus you seem to forget that the server AI also makes random cities and therefore create, together with user created content, a dynamic world that you infact can interact with (in the sense that these changes actually mean something other than appearance) and that also makes this game sandbox for me.

The things you can do in SecondLife do not define that it is sandbox, the way they are implanted do. SecondLife is a Sim and Sims are actually always sandbox. I personally do not want all those things that are in SecondLife, since they are EXACTLY the same as in real life and thus boring. Love in comparison has very little features, however, that does not have to make it less interesting to play. One big feature gives it a general focus that shapes the world toward that focus. Sure there are things that could be added and there are things added since the beta, but the creator does not want to list them to avoid spoilers. Another sandbox element for me: exploration not only of the world, but also of the possibilities within that world.

SecondLife has its boundries too, it lets you do what ever you want in its "real-life" setting. But can you be an Alien? Can you put a rocketlauncher on rollerskates or could you talk with animals? In those conferences can you choose to hit everyone with a baseball bat or flame them up with a flametrower. Can you build a spaceship and explore space? Can you create a forest in the centre of a city? Now these things do not make any sense but im quite sure you cant perform them. You can do what ever you want in a realistic setting, but not beyond that setting.

Final example: Google for "World of Sand" You will find a small flash/java game that enables you to put certain materials together, nothing more. But its still very fun to play, since you can try out combining stuff and see what happens. I can have easily an hour of fun with World of Sand on my Nintendo DS everytime I pick it up. This is an example of a very simple sandbox.

Originally posted by altairzq

Looks more like a FPS.

It's defined as:

# Genre: First person not so massively multi player online procedural adventure game.

 

What makes it' sandbox for you?

I think I could better ask you the same question.

The fact that it has FP view and has shooter elements in it has nothing to with whether or not it is sandbox. Sandbox, for me, is (complete) freedom to mess around in a interactive world. You can simply look at the name "sandbox" and then imagine what it means: You are in a gigantic sandbox and you do whatever want in it, is totally up to you. There is no main story line or main attractions like in "themepark" games. You just mess around and see what happens. Being creative is really important to enjoy a sandbox game imho. You can compare it with the GTA games, I played allmost every GTA game (I hated san andreas) and I never completed any of the storylines. I like the games because it has an interactive world were I can do stuff in, and make my own story.