Originally posted by BadSpock

I can't share any of the OP's concerns.

I am also concerned about the leveling speed -

 

If anything they need to increase the amount of XP gain because I can imagine a lot of people who don't 100% the zone will be left grinding/DE farming until they farm enough XP to level up for the next zone - and since most of the XP is from the DE's/quests it'll be a long grind.

Lier! Clearly you do share a concern of mine!!

;)

Originally posted by fenistil

 

 

GW2 when I play it it feel very much like a game. Very nice game, but it remind me every couple seconds that it is a game. Thus not very immersive.  

That does not make it worse game. Just worse 'virtual world' and will propably mean It won't be able to 'hook' me for more than few months. Cause it was immersion that kept me playing UO or old Lotro (not immersive anymore after changes) for so long not gameplay.

 

Many people think otherwise and they play (mmo)rpg's for long time cause they are great games and for example they like Arenas or Dungeons / Raids or some other things.

This is exactly the sentiment that I tried to translate in my posts. GW2 feels very much like a game. And its a great game. But I want it to feel like a universe, a virtual world I live in. I miss that, and i think some tweaks (to the things i mentioned) may actually greatly improve it.

Originally posted by Requiamer

My advise is to drop the way you are playing and just go around, put extra attention to detail, try to follow npc that seam to have a goal and see what happen, take your time to read and understand what is happening, then i can bet you'll find the game very immersive, at least the pve part. Only open your map when you are stuck in an over leveled zone and need to find your way back, just stop thinking about quest hub, forget about them, pretend they never existed in mmos... I'm sure this will help you see the game from an other angle and actually enjoy the immersive aspect of it that is really really nice. Also i think you need at least 20 level to adapt to the way this game is functioning, i think a lot of low level don't played enough to really taste the game, at least those that are not straight up in denial mode.

As i am more of a sanbox gamer I'd say i do pay attention to detail. The thing is that the things I noted are actually very small details on the way the game is presented. Things that for me break with atmosphere of the game. I care about a coherent and consistent universe with depth to it. And the telportation, use of interface breakes my immersion with the universe.

I actually did foudn realyl cool stuff in the game. I also didnt all too much about ingame world. What I talk about is the direct connection of the player with the gameworld through the interface.

Originally posted by Meowhead

 

Waypoints are Asura magitechnology, as is pretty obvious by the color and design of them, in addition to the whole... floating rock thing.

They're like a smaller scale version of the fixed asura gates, for personal use, and they can be travelled to by a special Hole in My Pocket (I think that's the name) device an asuran inventor made, which basically attunes to various waypoints as you approach them, adding it to your list of possible destinations.

I admit, it' dprobably be a little cooler if you saw people take out the teleporter device when they teleport away, but that's the official explanation.  You're welcome. :D

You seem to know a lot of this stuff ;). The explanation makes it more acceptable, but still I think the instant teleportation is kind of meh.

Originally posted by seridan

Originally posted by impiro

1. To much done through the interface without any real world interaction:

 When "immersion" gets in the way of fun then it should go.

Yikes, really? Things taking place realistically (within the laws of the GW2 universe) is immersion, remove to much of that because people want quick entertainment defeats the purpose of building an mmo universe.

 

Training skills "on the go" is a way to promote this. Same with teleporters. See it this way: when you use a waypoint it's like "pressing fast-forward" on a remote control. It's a way to  jump through a boring walk that should be avoided because it is again a limiting "fun factor". Why walk all the time across just for the shake of walking?

 

Why cant the teleportation happen with a magical cast? Why does it have ot be instant without any relation to what is happening in the game world. i mean HOW and WHAT is it in the GW2 universe that waypoints are there and the way they function.

 

2.  To much use of map signs that stand in the way of incentive to explore.

The amount of rage that would cause would be tremendus. At least Skill Challenges shouldn't be visible in unexplored maps, even those that are not in the current beta (that was certainly lame). But the map signs work both ways. They actually provide an incentive for people to explore, people who usually don't explore will be "forced" to explore in the game. So in the end the signs aren't a bad thing, in fact they help promote exploring instead of limiting it.

 

I guess you could indeed see it from that perspective as welll.

 

 

3.  Complete lack of phasing of the content in certain areas:

I remember lots of times walking randomly and some DE began, I don't see your point?

 

My point is that in certain areas the content is to close to eachother, sometimes to fare stretched. I think it is annoying that some areas seem like there is way to much going on to be realistic and immersive. I like to be in the GW2 universe, with its own logical laws etc. Right now certain areas feel kind of off to me I guess.

 

 

 

Originally posted by Connmacart

Originally posted by impiro

Originally posted by Chrome1980

Originally posted by thedarkess

Maybe its just my fanboism at effect here but: You won't find more immersive world in any thempark mmo than in Gw2. My opinion!

Yeah fanboism in effect because Vanguard is very immersive world. GW2 is immersive no doubt but it is way too chaotic and sometimes you feel like an action hero with no time for breaks and enjoying the vistas.

Yep, that lack of break was what i tried to translate with Lack of phasing. Its a little bit to much at times, making it seem silly and redundant.

That chaotic nature makes it all the more immersive in my opinion. It is what makes the world feel alive and a living world is an immersive world. A world should never be structured, because there is nothing less immersive than when you know what is where.

 

Random nature yes, chaotic to an extent. But it seems at bit too much that after every turn you take invasions take place, heroic events happen etc. Thats what i'm getting

Originally posted by Chrome1980

Originally posted by thedarkess

Maybe its just my fanboism at effect here but: You won't find more immersive world in any thempark mmo than in Gw2. My opinion!

Yeah fanboism in effect because Vanguard is very immersive world. GW2 is immersive no doubt but it is way too chaotic and sometimes you feel like an action hero with no time for breaks and enjoying the vistas.

Yep, that lack of break was what i tried to translate with Lack of phasing. Its a little bit to much at times, making it seem silly and redundant.

Originally posted by elocke

Originally posted by Meowhead
 

I'm with you on this one.  But my immersion factors come from sound and character feedback.  

OP, remember everyone has different immersion factors.  What you don't like about the map, I personally love.  I love having all those unfilled areas as unmarked points of interest and I'm an explorer.  I like directing my exploration while it seems you prefer the "getting lost" type of exploration, which is fine.  So...just turn off the map stuff.   ;D

No no you misunderstand i think. I love the undiscovered points of interest. I hate the fact that waypoints and skillpoints are always on the map. At least skillpoints should just be undiscovered points of interest.

Originally posted by Chrome1980

 

 You know that they plan to release GW2 for console too?

Oh god, please let them reconsider.

Originally posted by Ikeda
You prolly didn't notice, since it wasn't on the map, that only a small percentage of the PoIs and the like are actually marked by the scouts.

I have no problem with points of interest, as logn as they are not specified. My problem is that the main points of progression such as way points and skill points, are always on the map, discovered or not. That  beats the purpose of exploring the world to find those things.

Originally posted by Chrome1980

Yes map feels cluttered at times but since they are making this MMO for non MMO players too, they have to make it easier for them. I have no problem with that. It is a business after all and they are aiming to reach as many customers as possible.

But thereby ruining the premise of the 'RPG' in a 'MMORPG'

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

In before "You don't have to look at the blablabla markers, they are optional". 

Yep they will come. Optiinal they say. Screaming in your face, but optional to look at. Better close your eyes,

Originally posted by Istavaan

those are some very small issues for a beta, you're kinda nit picking there.

So thats why we have to point it out? It are things that need to be adressed. I'd say GW2 has amazing content, but needs a lot of tuning before its ready to be released. The current available build is far from release material. Yes, it is beta, therefore these are impression of the beta.

Originally posted by gladosrev2

Originally posted by Mephster

Perhaps I'll check out Dust 514 or Planetside 2. I think I am done with the basic fantasy mmo with a twist. These types of mmos have been done before time and time again.

Boy, will you be bored with these. Shoot, kill, shoot, kill, move, shoot, kill, geez lol. If you think GW2 boring, how in earth did you play any other MMO? The standard static mob grind of old was fun to you? :S Maybe you should stick to single player games like Mass Effect 3.. there it's like talk, move, press button, shoot, talk, move, use console, shoot, repeat.. oh wait xD

Myself I'm having a blast in GW2 and so far the only complaint I have is that the game looks ready and I'd like to play for real and not a beta anymore ;/

 

Allthough it will be put down as fanboyish, your post translates how I feel about the 'boring' complaints about GW2. I mean, really? Boring?  I would love to see what kind of amazing MMO these people were playing before, because if GW2 can be called boring and repetitive, well then any MMO in gaming history has been extemely boring. Granted, the DEs on themselves have the same mechanics as quests, but the way they are implanted is at least at lot more refreshing and way less repetitive than any other MMO's PvE experience. So, WTF?

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by QuicklyScott

I feel you OP, I kinda feel the same.

Having disliked my time in the previous Beta Weekend, I thought i'd give it another shot, as quite a few people are raving about how good it is.  I did have more fun than I did last time, and i did manage to have 20-30 extra FPS which was great.  It's just not for me though, there are a variety of reasons, but the main one is the questing system.  Like you said, I think it is repetitive. I hate having to grind mobs to level because you've done all the hearts for your area and you can't find any repeatable quests events to do.  I ended up Alt+F4ing.

Perhaps I'm just fed up with the genre?  That is what I've seen fans of the game suggest if you raise such complaints.

PS2 and Titan are the ones I'm interested in now, it's funny because, one and possible both are not even RPGs...

The point is that whenever you see a boring DE you just should ignore it and keep on walking.

And I never grinded mobs,right now there are 3 huge 1-15 zones and 2 mnore will come soon, just the heart quest should be enough to level you up but you are missing the exploration thing by just doing that.

But just because I have fun does not mean you are and the other way around, we seems to play rather different and if you like being told what to do instead of walkingaround exploring this just ain´t the game for you.

I think this post is right on the mark. People who complain about PvE being boring seem to be searching for a more traditional and linear form of progression. No, I'm not saying this to anyone who is not enjoying GW2 to defend it. It is just that when you follow the reasoning behind these posts, it shows a certain type of approuch. The thing is that levels in GW2 are quite meaningless, therefore you actually shouldn't even care what your level is and you should not be focussing to increase it.

The only way in which you can genuinely complain about DEs being boring is when you rush through them as a means to gain levels. Why? Because if DEs are boring to you inherently, you could just stop playing MMOs in general, even full sandbox MMOs, because I do not see anything coming in the next 2 years that revolutionizes PvE beyond GW2s approuch. I am not saying that the DEs are on them selves truly revolutionary, they are not, but the way the you approuch the DEs is refreshing. If you mindlessly run and zerg through the events, looking at the technical details on how to complete them, and focus on leveling, then your GW2 PvE experience WILL NOT BE ENJOYABLE. The DE's are build around cause and effect, so you have to pay attention to what is going on in order to appreciate that. If you just see it as kill x or defend y as a means to complete whatever, then yes, it is boring. The point of GW2 is that you explore the world and find interesting stuff to do. If you do not like exploring at all, you will never be able to enjoy DEs in the way they are meant to be.

So yes, in the end it all comes down to playstyle. Allthough, I do think that Anet has to significantly tweak the leveling process in GW2, because right now it does feel off. I'd say they should increase the experience gain to give players more choice in where to go.

Originally posted by BigHatLogan

Originally posted by impiro

Originally posted by graggok

Originally posted by Volkon
 

THE ELDER DRAGONS ARE ATTACKING QUICK FIND SOME FISH!!!  Somehow considering you are supposed to be a hero of lore fishing seems unimportant

Heroes do not need to eat or sleep either, cause thats not very heroic. Immersion is not heroic, so why have it?

Unrelated, I never understood how people can ever feel like a hero in a videogame. Cause everything is pretty much spelled out and determined beforehand. So you were made a hero, never really became one. Also, everyone is a hero, so relatively nobody is a hero, and the meaning of hero is actually based on relative value, so i dont even.......

You can do heroic things in games like EVE, where what you do matters and leaves a lasting impression on the game world.  Nobody remembers some fool that mines all day but when someone leads their corp to victory against a powerful opponent, that person becomes a hero.  WoW clones don't have heroes though.  They have chumps like like to kill boring mobs all day. 

I was indeed speaking of games like WoW and sp games. Sandbox games with substantial features like EvE do have real heroes. However, i dont really care about being a hero at all. It is really immersion breaking for me when I'm constantly the hero, together with every other player. RPG's are about creating your own stories, not passively following stories.

Originally posted by BigHatLogan

Originally posted by impiro

Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

Originally posted by GwapoJosh

Originally posted by Master10K

Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

I really find it strange how Fishing in reality is considered one of the most boring activities one can set out to do with their day.

And that most people in MMORPGs definitely do not do it in reality...

But yet, ask for it in these games? 

I don't get it either. There are much better activities, other than fishing, that can be added to the game. Yet all the time, people on this site want fishing to be added to every MMORPG. Is there really that big of a demographic of MMORPG fishers?

What's there to get? Some people like me would love a fishing mini game and some wouldn't..

Do you like fishing in reality?

do you like killing animals in reality?

Only delicious ones.

Why are people so much against diversity in gameplay? How in the world can people be exited for CoD 5, 6 and 7, while they offer exactly the same gameplay? HOW?

No one knows!   Why do people like killing mobs for days on end just to reach some sort of level cap and no nothing?  It's insane!

 

Actually that is not insane at all. What I wonder about is why people do the same thing over and over and are against anything that differs from that. Working towards a level cap on itself, no matter how repetitive the conent to get there, is still a goal that one wants to achieve. I have nothing against such a thing and its totally different from my example. Peopel like the goal, not the gameplay. Even if they do like the gameplay, how is it that they like the same gameplay over and over, without any form of diversity. I like shooters and I always will, but I would not be able to only play shooters, I need a break sometimes.

Originally posted by graggok

Originally posted by Volkon
 

THE ELDER DRAGONS ARE ATTACKING QUICK FIND SOME FISH!!!  Somehow considering you are supposed to be a hero of lore fishing seems unimportant

Heroes do not need to eat or sleep either, cause thats not very heroic. Immersion is not heroic, so why have it?

Unrelated, I never understood how people can ever feel like a hero in a videogame. Cause everything is pretty much spelled out and determined beforehand. So you were made a hero, never really became one. Also, everyone is a hero, so relatively nobody is a hero, and the meaning of hero is actually based on relative value, so i dont even.......

Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

Originally posted by GwapoJosh

Originally posted by Master10K

Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

I really find it strange how Fishing in reality is considered one of the most boring activities one can set out to do with their day.

And that most people in MMORPGs definitely do not do it in reality...

But yet, ask for it in these games? 

I don't get it either. There are much better activities, other than fishing, that can be added to the game. Yet all the time, people on this site want fishing to be added to every MMORPG. Is there really that big of a demographic of MMORPG fishers?

What's there to get? Some people like me would love a fishing mini game and some wouldn't..

Do you like fishing in reality?

do you like killing animals in reality? Or killing people? Does someone who likes fifa games have to like real soccer? (no, since im that person). A fishing mini game is most of the time not even close to real life fishing, in fact all gamefeatures resemble some sort of reality yet are not even close in resembling the real deal. Games are not simulators and vice versa.

Fishing in a game brings me immersion, and if its done in a fun way with some depth to it, it can be a nice change of phase while playing. Diversity is important in games, and this also goes fro diversity of gameplay features, not just diveristy in the same gameplay category. Next to diversity in the killing of mobs I also want to do other things than just combat. sometimes you want to do things that are more relaxing etc.

Why are people so much against diversity in gameplay? How in the world can people be exited for CoD 5, 6 and 7, while they offer exactly the same gameplay? HOW?