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All Posts by impiro

All Posts by impiro

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196 posts found
Originally posted by seridan
Originally posted by impiro

Another example are the medals that keep screaming in your face when an event is done. Where do this medals come from and who is giving them to me? What is their relevance to what just happened in the world? The medals do not even exist in the GW2 universe, they are something that the UI adds to the experience that has no link or reference to the GW2 world.

So you would want to go to the npc to take your reward instead of getting it "automaticaly"? Well it's a walk that can be avoided. The whole game is built around breaking the traditional MMO barriers. Like the waypoint system that is discussed in length in an another thread. Sure it breaks immersion but why does that bother you so much? You can simply return to the npc to get your rewards if you so like. I will certainly use the medals and proceed to the next fun activity instead of spending a few minutes walking......

 

I care about a virtual world, a MMORPG. And walking through that world makes me feel part of it, and that is fun for me.

Originally posted by Requiamer

 



 

The Ui is minimal isn't it? so really once more what are you even talking about? no really, i don't try to be a schmuck, but i just don't understand. You talk about the predominance of UI, yet this is one of the mmo with minimalistic UI, and they are not much like this. The map, well don't use it then if you find yourself staring at it all the time and each time you need to find something to do.

I am nowhere talking about the visual prevelance of the UI. Visualy its minimalistic, beautiful and effective.

My problem is UI elements that have direct relevance to what is happening to my character are not related to the gameworld at all. As in, when I teleport to waypoints, loading screen pops up. My character isn't actually telporting or anything in the gameworld.

Originally posted by Connmacart

Maybe because most people look past the UI when it comes to immersion. If one UI bothers you than any UI in a game will probably bother you in some form or another.

To be honest a UI is immersion breaking by its very nature. 

I clearly stated how this could be avoided and in fact a lot of mmo's do. I realize that UI is immersion breaking by its nature, but thats not the point I'm trying to make is it now?

When I teleport by use of the map, my character isn't teleporting. It feels like certain relevant features and mechanics of the game are only offered by the UI and habe no connection to the game world at all.

i do not mind UIs in general, not in the slightest.

Originally posted by Cyberdeck7

I bought the game and played the BWE this past weekend.

I have to agree with the OP. I got the same feeling he did, but he did a very good job of articulating the reasons why and how the game might be improved. Everything is jammed together with lights and fireworks going on all over the place. Everything is handed to you by the UI as you move along leaving very little to plan or figure out. Interaction with the game world has been trimmed down to fighting or harvesting. The unique things to do interaction-wise are situational - some times you can pick up rocks, sometimes you can fire a mortar. If the game world has mortars guarding one type of outpost, why aren't there mortars at all of that type of outpost? Whay aren't there rocks everywhere the terrain is rocky? I mean, I know why from a game design perspective, but from a world design perspective it doesn't make sense.

This is my opinion and not intended to offend anyone who likes the game. To me, and no one else on the planet should feel this way - if they do, it's not my fault - the game felt like a gaudy, flashy action arcade game. I'm disappointed in myself that I succumbed to hype yet again. I should have waited.

Again, just my opinion, but if ANet implemented half of the OP's constructive criticisms, it would go a long way to helping me enjoy the game. But they got their box money. Dammit.

Glad to see some people do feel sort of the same way as I do. A lot of reactions here kind of ignore the first point I made, which to me seems like a prety big deal when it comes to MMOs. The UI is the link between the player and the world, and when the UI loses connection to the gameworld, the player does as well.

People tell me about their amazing immersive moments with the game and yes i can see why they like the living world etc. But I am not talking about the gameworld and its atmosphere. I am talking about the literal connection between players and gameworld by the use of UI. My problem is that a lot of elements, especially progression elements that are relevant to character attachment, are only shown in the UI but have no connection to the gameworld. The UI thereby makes the character feel as some sort of hub that is connected to content, but not really in the content. The way certain things are represented in the UI look very nice, but in no way connected to my character.

Another example are the medals that keep screaming in your face when an event is done. Where do this medals come from and who is giving them to me? What is their relevance to what just happened in the world? The medals do not even exist in the GW2 universe, they are something that the UI adds to the experience that has no link or reference to the GW2 world.

Originally posted by BadSpock

I can't share any of the OP's concerns.


I am also concerned about the leveling speed -

 

If anything they need to increase the amount of XP gain because I can imagine a lot of people who don't 100% the zone will be left grinding/DE farming until they farm enough XP to level up for the next zone - and since most of the XP is from the DE's/quests it'll be a long grind.

Lier! Clearly you do share a concern of mine!!

;)

Originally posted by fenistil
 

 

GW2 when I play it it feel very much like a game. Very nice game, but it remind me every couple seconds that it is a game. Thus not very immersive.  

That does not make it worse game. Just worse 'virtual world' and will propably mean It won't be able to 'hook' me for more than few months. Cause it was immersion that kept me playing UO or old Lotro (not immersive anymore after changes) for so long not gameplay.

 

Many people think otherwise and they play (mmo)rpg's for long time cause they are great games and for example they like Arenas or Dungeons / Raids or some other things.

This is exactly the sentiment that I tried to translate in my posts. GW2 feels very much like a game. And its a great game. But I want it to feel like a universe, a virtual world I live in. I miss that, and i think some tweaks (to the things i mentioned) may actually greatly improve it.

Originally posted by Requiamer

My advise is to drop the way you are playing and just go around, put extra attention to detail, try to follow npc that seam to have a goal and see what happen, take your time to read and understand what is happening, then i can bet you'll find the game very immersive, at least the pve part. Only open your map when you are stuck in an over leveled zone and need to find your way back, just stop thinking about quest hub, forget about them, pretend they never existed in mmos... I'm sure this will help you see the game from an other angle and actually enjoy the immersive aspect of it that is really really nice. Also i think you need at least 20 level to adapt to the way this game is functioning, i think a lot of low level don't played enough to really taste the game, at least those that are not straight up in denial mode.

As i am more of a sanbox gamer I'd say i do pay attention to detail. The thing is that the things I noted are actually very small details on the way the game is presented. Things that for me break with atmosphere of the game. I care about a coherent and consistent universe with depth to it. And the telportation, use of interface breakes my immersion with the universe.

I actually did foudn realyl cool stuff in the game. I also didnt all too much about ingame world. What I talk about is the direct connection of the player with the gameworld through the interface.

Originally posted by Meowhead
 

Waypoints are Asura magitechnology, as is pretty obvious by the color and design of them, in addition to the whole... floating rock thing.

They're like a smaller scale version of the fixed asura gates, for personal use, and they can be travelled to by a special Hole in My Pocket (I think that's the name) device an asuran inventor made, which basically attunes to various waypoints as you approach them, adding it to your list of possible destinations.

I admit, it' dprobably be a little cooler if you saw people take out the teleporter device when they teleport away, but that's the official explanation.  You're welcome. :D

You seem to know a lot of this stuff ;). The explanation makes it more acceptable, but still I think the instant teleportation is kind of meh.

Originally posted by seridan
Originally posted by impiro

1. To much done through the interface without any real world interaction:
 When "immersion" gets in the way of fun then it should go.
Yikes, really? Things taking place realistically (within the laws of the GW2 universe) is immersion, remove to much of that because people want quick entertainment defeats the purpose of building an mmo universe.
 
Training skills "on the go" is a way to promote this. Same with teleporters. See it this way: when you use a waypoint it's like "pressing fast-forward" on a remote control. It's a way to  jump through a boring walk that should be avoided because it is again a limiting "fun factor". Why walk all the time across just for the shake of walking?
 
Why cant the teleportation happen with a magical cast? Why does it have ot be instant without any relation to what is happening in the game world. i mean HOW and WHAT is it in the GW2 universe that waypoints are there and the way they function.

 
2.  To much use of map signs that stand in the way of incentive to explore.
The amount of rage that would cause would be tremendus. At least Skill Challenges shouldn't be visible in unexplored maps, even those that are not in the current beta (that was certainly lame). But the map signs work both ways. They actually provide an incentive for people to explore, people who usually don't explore will be "forced" to explore in the game. So in the end the signs aren't a bad thing, in fact they help promote exploring instead of limiting it.
 
I guess you could indeed see it from that perspective as welll.
 
 
3.  Complete lack of phasing of the content in certain areas:
I remember lots of times walking randomly and some DE began, I don't see your point?
 
My point is that in certain areas the content is to close to eachother, sometimes to fare stretched. I think it is annoying that some areas seem like there is way to much going on to be realistic and immersive. I like to be in the GW2 universe, with its own logical laws etc. Right now certain areas feel kind of off to me I guess.
 
 

 

 

Originally posted by Connmacart
Originally posted by impiro
Originally posted by Chrome1980
Originally posted by thedarkess

Maybe its just my fanboism at effect here but: You won't find more immersive world in any thempark mmo than in Gw2. My opinion!

Yeah fanboism in effect because Vanguard is very immersive world. GW2 is immersive no doubt but it is way too chaotic and sometimes you feel like an action hero with no time for breaks and enjoying the vistas.

Yep, that lack of break was what i tried to translate with Lack of phasing. Its a little bit to much at times, making it seem silly and redundant.

That chaotic nature makes it all the more immersive in my opinion. It is what makes the world feel alive and a living world is an immersive world. A world should never be structured, because there is nothing less immersive than when you know what is where.

 

Random nature yes, chaotic to an extent. But it seems at bit too much that after every turn you take invasions take place, heroic events happen etc. Thats what i'm getting

Originally posted by Chrome1980
Originally posted by thedarkess

Maybe its just my fanboism at effect here but: You won't find more immersive world in any thempark mmo than in Gw2. My opinion!

Yeah fanboism in effect because Vanguard is very immersive world. GW2 is immersive no doubt but it is way too chaotic and sometimes you feel like an action hero with no time for breaks and enjoying the vistas.

Yep, that lack of break was what i tried to translate with Lack of phasing. Its a little bit to much at times, making it seem silly and redundant.

Originally posted by elocke
Originally posted by Meowhead
 

I'm with you on this one.  But my immersion factors come from sound and character feedback.  

OP, remember everyone has different immersion factors.  What you don't like about the map, I personally love.  I love having all those unfilled areas as unmarked points of interest and I'm an explorer.  I like directing my exploration while it seems you prefer the "getting lost" type of exploration, which is fine.  So...just turn off the map stuff.   ;D

No no you misunderstand i think. I love the undiscovered points of interest. I hate the fact that waypoints and skillpoints are always on the map. At least skillpoints should just be undiscovered points of interest.

Originally posted by Chrome1980
 

 You know that they plan to release GW2 for console too?

Oh god, please let them reconsider.

Originally posted by Ikeda
You prolly didn't notice, since it wasn't on the map, that only a small percentage of the PoIs and the like are actually marked by the scouts.

I have no problem with points of interest, as logn as they are not specified. My problem is that the main points of progression such as way points and skill points, are always on the map, discovered or not. That  beats the purpose of exploring the world to find those things.

Originally posted by Chrome1980

Yes map feels cluttered at times but since they are making this MMO for non MMO players too, they have to make it easier for them. I have no problem with that. It is a business after all and they are aiming to reach as many customers as possible.

But thereby ruining the premise of the 'RPG' in a 'MMORPG'

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

In before "You don't have to look at the blablabla markers, they are optional". 

Yep they will come. Optiinal they say. Screaming in your face, but optional to look at. Better close your eyes,

I'm a long time follower and fan of GW2. What grabbed me most were not the impressive visuals or the interesting twists to the Themepark MMO paradigm, but more the clear and well reasoned vision of ANet.
 
To kick it off, I want to say I am a little worried, mainly because of two things:
1: The BWE's give me the feeling that Anet isn't far from releasing this game, something I think that it is far from ready for, judging on the current BWE build.
 
2. The lack of critical vision by the current beta testers and GW fans, hoping for a release not to long from now. A lot of people seem not to care for any depth of the GW2 experience, but just come fore casual fun after a hard days work.
 
The thing is, GW2's content is amazingly rich and detailed for a beta. I think GW2 already has the content it promised and I loved to play through the content in both BWEs. So the content is most certainly not the problem, it is more the way the content is currently presented and the rulesets/mechanisms applied to it that IMHO needs a lot of tuning to give GW2's content value and depth.
 
Personally, I find that the way the content is presented in GW2 is breaking immersion with the GW2 universe. I'll list the most important things that cause this:
 
Edit: on bottom to clearify my nitpicking
 
1. To much done through the interface without any real world interaction:
Such as using teleportation via the map. It breaks immersion because it isn't using the GW2 universe to apply these mechanisms. The same goes for the learning of skills, the rewards etc. All of this is done directly and instantly through the interface, without any connection to the real game. 
 
I'm going to use the hated WoW (count me in) as a positive example here:  Teleportation stones, skill trainers etc. The are things in the WoW universe that are used to apply a certain mechanic.
 
Interfaces should be a representation of the gameworld mechanics and situations, right now a lot of features only exist through the interface, breaking immersion.
 
Also those shiny medals screaming in my face....
 
2.  To much use of map signs that stand in the way of incentive to explore.
Undiscovered waypoints, skillpoints and hearts are on the map, which spoils all the excitement of exploring. All undiscovered stuff should be marked with undiscovered places of interest, it makes exploring more varied and holds players of from ignoring a lot of content. Let landmarks and visual elements in the world direct players to the seemingly more interesting undiscovered points of interest. It makes character progression by acquiring skill points much more interesting when you have to SEARCH for skill points.
 
Edit: To clarify, I do like the marks of "undiscovered points of interest". What I do not like is that skillpoints are directly showed on the map. I want the skillpoints to be among the points of undiscovered interest.
 
 
3.  Complete lack of phasing of the content in certain areas:
This has nothing to do with handholding. This has more to do with logical and interesting placement of events along ways that players could be (lured into) taking. DE were presented as things that would randomly happen as you stumble by, right now this is not really the case.
By exploring my MAIN GOAL should NOT be finding DEs, but finding  interesting places that contain DEs or finding DEs in the process. This in part closely related to 1 and 2.
 
 
4.  Progression seems off and inconsistent with the premises of GW2's PvE:
I'd like to point out that I completely disagree with the people saying that level progression in GW2 is fine. I really think it shouldn't be necessary for player to visit multiple starting zones. We are talking about the starting areas here, which are important to creating a connection to the atmosphere in the game and to your character. To me it seems really immersion breaking that after being done in my starter zone, that I directly teleport to another starting area with the same 'starter area phasing' of DEs and hearts in a completely unrelated and different atmosphere. Things need to build up and content needs to be presented in a slowly build up atmosphere to be immersive. Right now the constant jumping between areas makes it feel like super mario galaxy 2. In which an interface is used to play bits of entertaining content that has no coherent consistency. This is bad for an open world fantasy MMO.
 
Imho, when you truly explore every corner of the a certain map and doing all content that comes your way should always ROUGHLY be high enough to get to next area. This mean that when encountering less DEs for some reason, you should be a few levels lower, whereas where you would have done every single event in every single stage you should be a few levels higher. This is very important to get a realistic and pleasing experience of progression which leads to more immersion in to GW2s universe.
            It should not be necessary to redo certain events, or run circles in a map because you might have missed certain events. This would make the game about DE hunting in stead of true exploring.
 
Right now, my character is a hub that I use to get to DEs  It should be the other way around! As my journey progresses, I should stumble upon adventures (DEs). My journey should NOT have DEs as its purpose, it makes no logical sense and makes the whole idea behind random events obsolete. I feel no immersion in the world or attachement to my character because everything is directly aquired through an interface instead of the game world. Exploration is spoiled completely by this same excessive use of interface.  
 
Edit: To sum up my sentiments, i'd like to quite a post in this thread:
 

 

 
Originally posted by fenistil

 

GW2 when I play it it feel very much like a game. Very nice game, but it remind me every couple seconds that it is a game. Thus not very immersive. 

 
Originally posted by Istavaan

those are some very small issues for a beta, you're kinda nit picking there.

So thats why we have to point it out? It are things that need to be adressed. I'd say GW2 has amazing content, but needs a lot of tuning before its ready to be released. The current available build is far from release material. Yes, it is beta, therefore these are impression of the beta.

Originally posted by gladosrev2
Originally posted by Mephster

Perhaps I'll check out Dust 514 or Planetside 2. I think I am done with the basic fantasy mmo with a twist. These types of mmos have been done before time and time again.

Boy, will you be bored with these. Shoot, kill, shoot, kill, move, shoot, kill, geez lol. If you think GW2 boring, how in earth did you play any other MMO? The standard static mob grind of old was fun to you? :S Maybe you should stick to single player games like Mass Effect 3.. there it's like talk, move, press button, shoot, talk, move, use console, shoot, repeat.. oh wait xD

Myself I'm having a blast in GW2 and so far the only complaint I have is that the game looks ready and I'd like to play for real and not a beta anymore ;/

 

Allthough it will be put down as fanboyish, your post translates how I feel about the 'boring' complaints about GW2. I mean, really? Boring?  I would love to see what kind of amazing MMO these people were playing before, because if GW2 can be called boring and repetitive, well then any MMO in gaming history has been extemely boring. Granted, the DEs on themselves have the same mechanics as quests, but the way they are implanted is at least at lot more refreshing and way less repetitive than any other MMO's PvE experience. So, WTF?

Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by QuicklyScott

I feel you OP, I kinda feel the same.

Having disliked my time in the previous Beta Weekend, I thought i'd give it another shot, as quite a few people are raving about how good it is.  I did have more fun than I did last time, and i did manage to have 20-30 extra FPS which was great.  It's just not for me though, there are a variety of reasons, but the main one is the questing system.  Like you said, I think it is repetitive. I hate having to grind mobs to level because you've done all the hearts for your area and you can't find any repeatable quests events to do.  I ended up Alt+F4ing.

Perhaps I'm just fed up with the genre?  That is what I've seen fans of the game suggest if you raise such complaints.

PS2 and Titan are the ones I'm interested in now, it's funny because, one and possible both are not even RPGs...

The point is that whenever you see a boring DE you just should ignore it and keep on walking.

And I never grinded mobs,right now there are 3 huge 1-15 zones and 2 mnore will come soon, just the heart quest should be enough to level you up but you are missing the exploration thing by just doing that.

But just because I have fun does not mean you are and the other way around, we seems to play rather different and if you like being told what to do instead of walkingaround exploring this just ain´t the game for you.

I think this post is right on the mark. People who complain about PvE being boring seem to be searching for a more traditional and linear form of progression. No, I'm not saying this to anyone who is not enjoying GW2 to defend it. It is just that when you follow the reasoning behind these posts, it shows a certain type of approuch. The thing is that levels in GW2 are quite meaningless, therefore you actually shouldn't even care what your level is and you should not be focussing to increase it.

The only way in which you can genuinely complain about DEs being boring is when you rush through them as a means to gain levels. Why? Because if DEs are boring to you inherently, you could just stop playing MMOs in general, even full sandbox MMOs, because I do not see anything coming in the next 2 years that revolutionizes PvE beyond GW2s approuch. I am not saying that the DEs are on them selves truly revolutionary, they are not, but the way the you approuch the DEs is refreshing. If you mindlessly run and zerg through the events, looking at the technical details on how to complete them, and focus on leveling, then your GW2 PvE experience WILL NOT BE ENJOYABLE. The DE's are build around cause and effect, so you have to pay attention to what is going on in order to appreciate that. If you just see it as kill x or defend y as a means to complete whatever, then yes, it is boring. The point of GW2 is that you explore the world and find interesting stuff to do. If you do not like exploring at all, you will never be able to enjoy DEs in the way they are meant to be.

So yes, in the end it all comes down to playstyle. Allthough, I do think that Anet has to significantly tweak the leveling process in GW2, because right now it does feel off. I'd say they should increase the experience gain to give players more choice in where to go.

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