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All Posts by Tanemund

All Posts by Tanemund

5 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 »
94 posts found

What has Mark Jacobs got on Santa Claus?  I can pinch Mark Jacobs.


What has Santa Claus got on Mark Jacobs?  Santa Claus delivered and he didn't ask me to front money to gas up the sleigh.


Frankly the Kickstarter campaign is a good business move by Jacobs.  Before he spends dollar one or significant man hours on a project he can gauge the interest in it.  This will make it easier to get loans from investors because he can point to hard numbers for a client base.  That will be how CU changes how MMOs are made, if it changes anything at all.  Designers can use KS as a mechanism to gauge interest before approaching investers.  Why guess what the gamers will pay for when they'll tell you up front?  This is better than simple polling because people are required by KS campaigns to put their money where they're mouth is.


Ah well.  Santa Claus 4tehwinz0rz!!!11!!!!shifteleven!!!

I find myself enthusiastic about and worried about this idea.


As a geek, and therefore, an outsider of sorts, I love "independence".  Anything that steps outside the normal way of doing things is something I'm ready to give half a chance.  The idea of a "grass roots" movement starting the next wave of games tickles my fancy because it seems that we geeks are taking back our own.  Lately everyone seems to want to be classified as a geek, and that makes me (at least) who has been a geek all my life, a bit nauseous.  I mean all those people who wouldn't have anything to do with me now want to be exactly like me.  I guess anyone who finds their "lifestyle" going mainstream feels the same way.


World of Warcraft brought an invasion into MMO space.  Quite literally the zerglings came in and suddenly it was hip to be square (Huey Lewis reference) and play a video game online.  That's when the gaming companies started to try make MMOs.  It hasn't gone well and its left those of us who played MMOs in their infancy (when 200,000 subscriptions was a lot) feeling jilted.  For me MMOs were the pen and paper games of my youth come to life and then someone took that and grossly disfigured it into something I didn't recognize.  With all that as a given then yes I'm excited to see where Kickstarter takes us, even if it takes us right back to where we were ten years ago.


However, I'm also worried about this because of the amount of imput the playerbase can have.  I've been around gaming long enough to know that gamers agree on exactly nothing.  Witness Mark Jacob's concept.  It's barely passed the drawing board and there are hundreds of posts telling him what people want and don't want in the game.  All of those posts boil down to "I want my favorite part of my favorite game in your game."  To me its a toss up between which is worse;  the suit who pushes an incomplete game out the door or the player base who creates a ten humped camel of a game by claiming ownership of a game by virtue of giving it money to start. 


The other thing that worries me is this strange amnesia that Kickstarter has generated.  For example, think about how literally just a few years ago the words "Mark Jacobs" were dirty words to people who played DAoC.  He was the guy who brought us Trials of Atlantis (the event almost universally pointed to by ex-DAoC players as their reason for quitting), the guy who sold Mythic to EA and the guy who brought us the first attempt at what everyone was praying was DAoC 2, Warhammer.  Now out of the blue he dangles Hibernia, Midgard and Albion in front of us again and asks for money and for some reason we're supposed to be willing to shell.  Wasn't it just a few years ago that the Tabula Rasa disaster happened?  Yet a few flowery posts full of promises and a trailer and somehow all is forgotten?


My point is the people who are leading us in this bold new direction are the very same people that led us to where we are today; suffering under the yoke of bad games generated by mega companies who are trying to produce the next World of Warcraft instead of trying to do something new and innovative.  And the crowd they are appealing to are the very same people who felt betrayed by those who are leading us in this bold new direction.  Taken in that light I'm not so sure I'm jumping up and down about Kickstarter gaming.


Time will tell, I suppose.


From what I've read in this article and the comments it seems Cryptic is relying on the Foundary to compensate for a single linear leveling quest line.  That smells like a recipe for disaster to me. 

City of Heroes had a player made content system.  That degenerated into a powerl leveling tool.  Players simply designed instances that were small maps with lots of mobs to "Kill, Crush, Destroy".  Paragon Studios took measure to prevent that and use of the player made content stopped.  Even the story arcs that people had taken the time to plot and plan out and carefully design weren't played.  People weren't interested in the "story".  They just wanted to level up.

I know Dungeons and Dragons based games have a rich tradition of player involvement and creativity, however that tends to fall by the wayside when people get focused on the "Endgame".  The journey is no longer the "thing" in MMOs.  Now there has to be a goal otherwise why bother playing.  I'm afraid that user generated content will simply be used as an express lane to whatever the "endgame" might be.

Also the last game Cryptic put out was severly lacking in content as well.  That was STO and the aftershocks of that disaster must still shudder around Cryptic.  I know it's making me take a wait and see on a title I would ordinarily be first in line for.


@ Pokket - Rejection hurts and that's what happened here.  Those people rejected your friendship in favor of something else (in this case pixels generated by some server somewhere).  It's petty to be sure.  I understand it's upsetting.  So much for the fuzzy part of my post.


First, I'm not sure that using your position here at as a platform to complain about these particular people is appropriate.  This can be viewed in a lot of lights and one of the obvious ones is here is someone elevating the drama in an attempt to gain sympathy and attention.  That doesn't seem likely in your case since you seem to have all the attention you could possibly want, but I'll cite that as just one example of how this can reflect.


Second, if anyone out there doesn't like drama, the best way to avoid it is to simply not engage in it.  The response is, "Hey, if you've got to go, then go.  Since we've got some fundamental differences then it's probably best we parted ways."  Every single person in the world can tell this same story.  I'm not sure I can credit you with "speaking out" against some evil in the world when everyone has experienced it and dealt with it.  Drama happens when you make more of something than it is, so be careful before you claim to be fighting the battle for the whole world.  For some reason they felt the need to tell you a fib (that's what this qualifies as.  They didn't steal RL money from you or ruin your relationship with your significant other) so maybe there might have been a vibe or something you were putting out that made them take this course as opposed to the direct, "we're leaving" method.


Third, be very cautious with the word "friend".  Just because someone is on your friends list or in your guild in an MMO doesn't make them a friend.  Just because you've heard their voice on Vent or met them IRL doesn't make them a friend.  Shared experiences, shared values and mutual respect and affection make friends.  I have a few friends that I met online, but they didn't become friends in the truest sense of the word until I shared real life experiences from birth to death and everything in between with them.  Now that they are my friends, something as small as them wanting to change guilds because they want something different from a game than I do would not undermine our friendship.  And because of our friendship they know this.  Gaming is a portal to meeting people just like reading groups or anything else.  Once the portal has done it's job of bringing people together then it's up to each of us to do the hard work of vetting and the vetting process is by nature long and discerning.  (This could lead to a discussion of why I think communities in MMO have broken down so thoroughly, but I'm not going to drift off topic).  Besides I don't think you want to impute the bad behavior of a few people to the entire human race, do you?  That makes the world a truly dark place with little to no hope.


Warren Buffet has a famous quote about friendship.  It goes, "I know a woman in her 80's, a Polish Jewish woman forced into a concentration camp with her family, but not all of them came out.  She says, 'I am slow to make friends because when I look at people, I have one question in mind; would they hide me?'"  I'm not saying your standards have to be quite that high, but they should be higher than, "I've known them in game for a few years and we talk every night on Vent."


I can't say I have a perfect track record in life, but I have developed a paradigm that works pretty well.  I figure everyone out there is like a chunk of rock.  You've got to chip away some of the outer layers to find out what's inside.  Sometimes you find nothing but rock.  Sometimes you find lead.  Sometimes you find silver and, very rarely, sometimes you find gold.  The trick is to keep each in the proper place in your life.  I know a lot of people and I'm friendly with many of them, but I am friends with very few of them.  Sure a friend is someone who will stick in the clutch and back you up, but they also are the people who will tell you things about yourself that you don't necessarily want to hear.  To use a poker term, a friend is someone you'd go "all in" for and they would go "all in" for you.  Simply put be careful who you bet your arse on.


So, figure this is like sticking your finger in the light socket when you were a kid.  It hurt, but it didn't kill you and it taught you not to stick your finger in the light socket anymore.  Take it, move on and remember it in the future.  Maybe you're not cut out to be a Guild Leader, or maybe you just don't want the aggravation.  In the meantime remember; Love many, trust few, do harm to none.

Kudos to the OP for a well thought out and intelligent post.


I especially agree with #1.  Listening to the playerbase is a sure fire way to get a game into trouble.  Instead developers should WATCH what the playerbase is doing.  For example if everyone is playing class X, then it's a sure fire indicator that class X is somehow advantageous.  If none of the player base are doing public quests, then it's a sure fire indicator that public quests aren't what the playerbase wants.


In truth what most of the player base wants is easily defined.  For themselves they want the most reward for the minimum commitment of time and effort.  For their fellow gamers, which are now automatically viewed as opponents instead of comrades, they want the least reward for the maximum commitment of time and effort.  Why?  Because you "win" in a community game if you "pwn" everyone else in the community.  Given that as a starting point it's futile to listen to the players.


Which leads to another thing that is killing MMOs.  There has been a fundamental shift in the playerbase.  The first generation of MMO players were former pencil and paper gamers with access to a computer modem.  The recent generation of MMO players grew up playing video games and are used to a game having a story with a beginning, middle and end and then some kind of PvP attached to it.  The first group was about community while the second group is used to being able to finish the game on their own.  That's not right or wrong or good or bad.  It just is a fact.  People playing online games now have different expectations of a game than the people who first played MMORPGs.


Finally the game developers keep looking for one ring to rule them all.  Even WoW doesn't do that and it's the closest anyone's ever gotten to that Holy Grail.  WoW is like vanilla ice cream.  Lots of people like vanilla ice cream.  However instead of trying to copy vanilla gaming companies (and gamers) might be better served to adopt the Baskin Robbins approach, meaning there are 31 flavors so find the one that you like.

It's hard to credit anonymous sources.  That goes double when the anonymous sources are saying things that everyone wants to believe in the first place.  Nothing sells like a conspiracy theory and nothing pushes a conspiracy theory like an anonymous source.


Like it or not the fact we pay to play these games does not give us an ownership interest in them.  If the people who own the game want to shut the game down for any reason they have every right to shut it down.  "It's not making enough money" is a pretty good explanation of why the game was shut down.


I like MMO hotstove as much as the next guy, but this milk is spilt.  I understand it's news, but it seems all we're doing is breading more mistrust and hatred for gaming companies here.  Actually that might make a good article; the love/hate relationship that exists between gamers and game makers.

Advanced Dungeons and Dragons was probably the greatest "gateway" drug into gaming of any game ever conceived.  You can't have a true "Geek" credential until you've played this game.  I'm sure if I fish through some of those boxes way in the back of the attic I can come up with a few twenty sided dice.  What got me into it?  The same as everyone else.  One of the local clergy at a church in my small home town said that AD&D was demonic and we kids shouldn't play it.  I heard that and my first thought was, "I got to try that."  Probably the best advertising AD&D ever got.


From there I went to Starfleet Battles (Hello, GEEK!) and it was Starfleet Battles that was eventully my entre into online gaming.  Starfleet Battles became Starfleet Command, Startleet Command II : Empires at War and Starfleet Command II : Orion Pirates.  It was there in the Dynaverse that I met my Klingon Brothers!


From there it was game on.  A decade of online gaming later, I still owe it all to AD&D.

City of Heroes was my second MMO after Dark Age of Camelot.  When I made the switch I was thrilled with CoH, so pardon me one wall of text while I wax nostalgic over the death of an old friend.


The first big perk in CoH was travel powrs.  After playing a game where it took (remember there was no porting in DAoC when it released) a lot of time to go from point to point, the idea of being able to just jump there in a few seconds was astounding.


Then there was the sidekicking system, which enabled people of different levels to play together any time they wanted.  Had to miss a few days of playing and fell behind?  No problem.  You could still group with the same people and enjoy the time together.


The fact there was practically no loot at release (you bought enhancements and everyone had access to the same thing) I  thought might be a  negative.  In truth, after watching people squabble over loot drops for years it was a relief not to have to worry about it.  It took a huge stressor out of grouping.  As they added loot (Hamidons anyone?) I began to worry that the snake was loose in the Garden of Eden, but I don't really ever recall stressing about loot or too many loot fights.


It was also the first game I played where you could literally solo from level 1 to level 50.  Your character had many contacts who gave them missions (quests really) and those had interesting story lines.  If you logged in and didn't want to group or your buddies weren't on and you couldn't find one it wasn't a problem.  You just popped open your contacts, got a mission and off you went to level up.  After playing a game with forced grouping to llevel in anywhere near efficient time (21 days /played to level cap back in DAoC 2:00 AM on March 3, 2002 and that was approximately "normal" back then) the ability to log on for fifteen minutes and solo and achieve something was a revelation. 


There was no PvP when the game launched, but truthfully I never missed it.  Even when they implemented it, I never really engaged in it.  For some reason I just never felt the need to PVP in that game.  People scoffed (although the PvP system did have great features) but something about the air of the game made PvP kind of unnessesary. 


Now the big seller was the character customization.  I'd come from a game where your choices were about 15 different faces and whether you'd be small, medium or large.  Then it was down to the kind of dye you wore on your armor to express your individuality.  With CoH you could sit in front of the computer for hours designing your chracter with almost limitless character size scales, costume options and a huge color pallet.  To this day it still has to rank as one of the great charracter creators ever.


The game also caught me at just the right time in my life.  I was starting my own business and my wife and I were having kids, so I couldn't afford the time to play a game like DAoC anymore.  DAoC almost demanded you log on every night if for no other reason than to defend your realm.  CoH was so casual friendly that it was a boon.  I could miss a week of gameplay and still hang with my buddies, where in DAoC I'd have been left behind.  It also allowed me to start and stop suddenly for when someone needed a diaper changed etc.  The side benefit was when I had a fussy baby I could sit him or her in my lap and log into CoH and the quick movements and flashy colors would distract both them and me. 


But the best part was the community.  Back in the day if you were a roleplayer this was the place to go.  And if you wanted to find the best roleplayers you logged into the Virtue server and headed for Galaxy Park.  There you found hundreds of other players roleplaying, telling stories and preparing for a night of adventure.  I've got theories as to why the game generated such a welcoming and happy community (Lack of PvP, not much in the way of loot, strong roleplaying segment, developers like Cupa Joe who were incredibly accessible  in and out of game and who actually played their game), but it was just what a refugee from a Realm based game needed.


Finally on a personal note this game gave birth to the most vivid character I ever dreamed up as a roleplayer; Nox Noctivagus - The One Who Wanders at Night. (a Dark Melee/Super Reflexes Scrapper)  Nox came to Paragon City as a faceless (he wore a faceless steel helmet over his head) and nameless werewolf slave to his vampire Mistress Cimmaron (played by a truly excellent roleplayer I met in DAoC).  Over the course of his leveling up he met other characters and eventually rediscovered his former self and was freed by his Mistress, who then became the great love of his life.  The story of his journies and adventures in Paragon (Echoes in the Dark) covered more than 300 pages when I printed it out and was posted on the Virtue VN Boards for all to read.  People joined in and added their own chapters about their experiences with Nox  who went from souless wrecking machine to big, terrifying, cuddly Superhero who terrorized the criminals of Paragon City while protecting the weak and innocent from the attempted evils of the villans. 


Thanks to City of Villians (which I helped beta test) I was able to create Lord Ignotus and his Order of the Fang, Nox's nemesis who not only battled Nox, but tried to tempt him into yielding to the animal instincts of what Nox called "His Beast" (his werewolf self) and become a villain.  The Order of the Fang included Madame Cauchemar (Pleasant Dreams, Mon Cher!), Dr. Creepzncrawlz (Death has a head start on you!), Myster Grym (I am Myster Grym), Lady Blackheart (And one to the heart!), and The Scarlet Vanguard (who later changed her ways and became a hero.  This was before Going Rogue so I had to delete her as a villain and rerole her as a hero).  Tempted by power, lust, greed, hatred, fear and the disappearance of his Mistress Cimmaron, Nox faced madness and the demons in his ancient soul (he was 4000 years old) before ultimately mastering his beast and remaining a hero.  Yet he would always find himself strangely tempted by the gracile, stunning beautiful, spectacularly deadly and cruelly manipulative daughter of Lord Ignotus, Madame Cauchemar (a stalker and chief operative of the Order of the Fang) who's laugh and languid taunts delivered in French, always haunted him.


With all that going for it, it's no wonder I remember CoX fondly.  So maybe before they pull the plug I'll load up the game one more time and just take a tour of all the old sights and maybe, just maybe, run across someone who remembers the Old Wolf from days gone by.  So in tribute to all that was good in Paragon City, here is what was always the first and last lines of all the Nox Noctivagus story arcs.  Maybe someone remember, but most won't .  But just so a little piece of that time survives, here it goes.


"Welcome to my world.  It is a stark world of black and white under pale moonlight and it comes to life after sunset.  Every night, after the sun goes down, I yield to Mistress Luna, who calls to the animal in me, and I don my red and black leathers, my red mask and my black hood and I go out to do what I have done for more than four thousand years.  I go out to do what I will do for the rest of my undying life.  I hunt.


Who am I?


I am The One Who Wanders at Night.


I am Nox Noctivagus."


My comment generated more responses than the article?  Now THAT is amazing.


I'm not the grammar police (I think I would be more properly classed as the "vocabulary police") and I regularly check out Pokket's reviews because I think on the whole she does a good job and reviews things like a gamer instead of a developer or designer.  I just thought I'd point out that reusing a word like "amazing" becomes distracting.  That's a shame because, as I said before, I think Pokket does good work.


I didn't question anyone's ancestrory or imply they were stupid.  I just offered some  constructive criticism, but I guess in today's society anyone who doesn't think something is perfect is just a "hater".


In any event we know who the real culprit is anway, right Bill?


Thank you to everyone for helping me make the point though.




Usually I find your stuff entertaining.  Lately, however, I'm getting distracted by a word you repeat over and over.  It reminds me of the line from The Princess Bride; "You use that word a lot.  I do not think it means what you think it means."  Its also starting to make me wonder about your objectivity when it comes to your reviews.


I'm not a hater and I'm no English teacher, but you've used the word "amazing" enough.  It seems like you use that word to describe everything.  While you did throw in an "astounding" for spice, after reading your article all I got was everything at PAX was "amazing".  In the end your use of "amazing" distracted me from the theme of  your article and I simply started counting the number of times you wrote "amazing".  "Amazing" is on the verge of becoming your catch phrase.  It has become like that Seinfeld episode where the doctor describes everything as "Breathtaking". 


In the future please try to use an "astonishing" or an "impressive" or an "electrifying" or an "extraordinary" or an "absorbing" or an "arresting" or an "exciting".  A quick flip through the thesaurus (that's not a type of dinosaur, kids) would make your writing much more "engrossing".


Glad you had an amazing time at PAX.

Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Tanemund

There are griefers in video games, but they only have as much control over you as you allow them to have.

The problem is that most human beings have at least one easy button to push.  Most players on this board, for example, will tend to lash out if you attack their favorite game, or playstyle; making them easy to "troll" with repeatable copy/paste topics.

The fault doesn't lie in being human, and therefor possible to manipulate.  The fault lies in an internet 'society' that applauds manipulators.

That's kind of my point, Icewhite.  Life is full of all kinds of frustrations just as video games are.  No matter what mechanic is buit into the game, some people are still going to behave badly.  The only thing gamers (and people in general) can control is how we react.


Once someone shifts their perspective and starts looking at their gaming as "hard worK" and become fixated on "goals" in the game (loot, Experience etc) they become prime subjects for griefing and trolling.  The only antidote is to remember these games and the "achievements" in them are just computer generated pixels that could vanish if someone spills a cup of coffee on the server.


Let me give you an example.  I played WoW and I never was much of a raider, but I did PuG a few raids.  Unlike other people, I actively seek out PuGs because I enjoy meeting people in the game and I decided a long time ago I'd risk the few jerks to find the many more good people.


So I decide to PuG a low level instance and I get in a group.  I tend to play healers (Priest in this case) because it makes it easier to PuG if you have a healing class.  Lots of healers won't PuG and, truthfully, I understand why.  But like I said I decided to assume the risk, so I go in with open eyes.


As happens from time to time I land in a group with a tank who likes to pull fast, even when I announce I am out of mana.  It doesn't take long before my group mates are grumbling and sending tells.  I now have a choice.  I can get pissed or I can entertain myself.  I play games to entertain myself, so I'm going to get my entertainment one way or another.


So on the next OOM pull I stand up and blow the little remaining mana I have spam casting Power Word : Fortitude on her toon.  She dies in short order and she's pissed about it.  She unleashes a screed about "crappy healers who don't pay attention" in group chat, to which I respond, "Oh, gee.  I'm sorry.  I guess we both did the right thing at exactly the wrong time."  Message delievered and thanks to a soulstone, no harm, no foul.


Another one of my favorites is when someone starts spamming "heal" at me I like to cast my little low level heals or my smallest heal on them.  When they die and scream about it I'll tell them, "I did heal you, but you never told me WHICH heal to use.  Since you know so much about healing, next time you should be more careful to specify which heal you want."


Even if "society" is to blame, each of us has the remedy in our possession.  The point is each gamer is responsible for their own good time.  The ultimate antidote to "griefing" is to keep a good attitude.  I do think it's a little tragic when someone is playing a social game like an MMO and they refuse to socialize with anyone outside their guild.  I'm sure they have their reasons, but still.


Just in case you're wondering I try to live this in real life too.  In stores I'm the guy that likes to read the employee's name tags and call them by name and I try hard to start every conversation with a smile and a sincere "how are you?"  I keep it up even when peopel are grumpy or rude.  Especially then.  Its my little message tot hem that I'm happy no matter how they behave so they might as well drop the grumpy/rude act. 


There is no great reason for this beyond, well, I like to be happy and enjoy myself.  So a while ago I just decided to be happy and enjoy myself.  Strangely I suddenly found myself surrounded by happy people who were enjoying themselves too.  I'm not so arrogant is to think I caused that, but I think that when you're happy and enjoying yourself you tend to attract other people who are also happy and enjoying themselves. 


It  works well in video games as well and it doesn't prevent you from "striking back".  It just enables you to handle bad behavior with a wink and a smile and the people around you seem to get a kick out of it too.  For example no one else in the group with the OOM pulling tank minded the wipe when they saw how I handled it.  And after that we all had a good time, including the tank who quit pulling when I was OOM (BTW, she happens to be a good friend of mine now and a member of my gaming group). 


Besides, if you think about it, truly epic griefing and/or trolling can be appreciated as an art form.  "Lerooooooooooooooooy Jenkins!" anyone?  The other 30 or 40 people on that raid were griefed, but I think even they had to say (later on after the shock wore off), "hey that was pretty funny.  I'm kinda glad I was there to see it first  hand."


My only point in this wall of text is if you don't want to be griefed or trolled then you can make that happen.  Killing the griefer isn't the answer because if they cared about their pixels they wouldn't be griefing.  By killing them you're letting the griefer know they succeeded in their goal, which was to have a good time by ruining your good time.  Bad behavior on the internet is easy to ignore if you use the "logout" option.  By "logout" option I mean just stay positive.  It works against even the most creative trolls and griefers.

Originally posted by TruthXHurts
Originally posted by Tanemund

Real life has griefers.  Those people who whip into the parking space you've been waiting for, people cut in line, people take all the free samples, people eat food that isn't theirs in the lunch room refrigerator, people go on welfare rather than get a job, people get lost in online worlds rather than call their RL buddies.  I'm sure everyone has wished they had a gun so they could shoot those people from time to time, but you don't because normal people don't shoot other people over parking lots.


There are griefers in video games, but they only have as much control over you as you allow them to have.  At least in video gaming you can log out and go do something else rather than getting your blood pressure up.  Maybe real life needs a "Logout" button more than video games need a "Vaporize Azzhat" button.


Of course you could just do drugs and log out of real life that way, but that has it's own set of problems.


[mod edit]



Ah, proof positive that nerd rage knows no bounds.  Consider yourself "trolled" IRL.


Look on the bright side.  With a board name like that you shouldn't have any trouble figuring out where to start your little shooting spree.  Remember, screenshots or it never happened!


Here's wishing you a steady hand and true aim! 


Can i have ur stuffz?

Real life has griefers.  Those people who whip into the parking space you've been waiting for, people cut in line, people take all the free samples, people eat food that isn't theirs in the lunch room refrigerator, people go on welfare rather than get a job, people get lost in online worlds rather than call their RL buddies.  I'm sure everyone has wished they had a gun so they could shoot those people from time to time, but you don't because normal people don't shoot other people over parking lots.


There are griefers in video games, but they only have as much control over you as you allow them to have.  At least in video gaming you can log out and go do something else rather than getting your blood pressure up.  Maybe real life needs a "Logout" button more than video games need a "Vaporize Azzhat" button.


[mod edit]


I remember the term "Grind" and "Endgame" turning up in MMOs simultaneously.  As soon as players began to talk about "endgame" in MMOs then suddenly everything that wasn't "endgame" content (epic raids or PvP) was considered "grind" content.

I've always believed that the original MUDs and MMOs were outgrowths of pen and paper RPGs.  They were 3D representations of what every D&D player pictured when they rolled the dice.

As a result everyone who played went in with the mentality of playing in a persistent world to explore and adventure in.  The fun was in going places and doing things with others.  The trouble came when people began to hit the goal of level caps and ask, "What do I do now?"  Well the answer was either level a new character (i.e. do the same things in the same places again) or fight the "world bosses" or fight other players.  Either that or wait until the developers added new content and raised the level cap (usually once or twice a year).

I don't think there is a real answer to this problem.  Even in life there is grinding.  I go to work and grind to make money.  I even have to grind faction with my wife sometimes.  Its just part of the matrix.  The only solution is for the individual players to stop looking at game mechanics as a "grind" to be raced through to get to the "endgame" and relearn to enjoy the enitre experience, just like you have to do in real life.  Its not the goal that's fun.  Its the journey.  No Dev can program that.

Just say "no".

But that would take more guts than any gaming company had.  It should be "here is your world.  Good luck with the rest" but no one would play that game because that's too much like life.



As someone mentioned above I think Underworld is something that is just BEGGING to be made into an MMO.  The horror genre is also completely unrepresented in MMOs today.  The Secret World appears to dip it's toe in the horror area, but none really go all out.  With CCP seemingly pushing back World of Darkness, this genre is ripe for the picking.


Someone else mentioned Dune and that also could be spectacular.  It should follow the Eve model and allow players to form their own Great Houses in the universe.  That would give you a multi-sided war for control of the Spice.  Plus there are loads of character types to choose from.


The Untouchables with gangsters and police would make a nice setting.  Would be cool to whip out a tommy gun and write your name in blood on the walls.  Again this game lends itself to the Eve model of player formed factions warring with each other for control of liquor distribution with the police elements trying to stop it or control it and profit from it.  That would make the police a kind of "wild card" that could change the interactions between the various criminal elements.


Unforgiven or some other western genre is another movie that just shouts out for consideration.  Player built towns servicing community and defending themselves from roaming bands of outlaws.  A third faction consisting of Native Americans could be added which would resist westward expansion and interact with both sides according to the player's wishes.  For that matter Dances with Wolves is another movie I could see being developed.


Others off the top of my head.


The Postman


The Godfather

Toy Story

Out of the list given I think Bladerunner is the one that sticks out the most.  I'd love to see a game world based on this IP.



Originally posted by lizardbones

The vampire's minions were a lot more disturbing than the vampires. Renfield was a lot scarier than Dracula. Which makes sense...vampires are supposed to be attractive...that's how they operate. It's their strength. Twilight is just the ultimate expression of that aspect of vampires.

Vampires were never really all that scary to begin with. Humans always win against the vampires eventually. Stake through the heart, garlic, find them in their coffin during the day...whatever. We always win. With zombies, humans never win. Even when humans win they don't win. The best you can hope for is being able to survive them.

If you want a more disturbing vampire, watch 'Stake Land' or read Guillermo Del Toro's book 'The Strain' and 'The Fall'.


Hehe ... everyone knows that's because Vampires solo in PvP to display their l337 skillZ while all the Zombies ever do is Zerg.

The Vampire is the latest victim of the age of the Participation Trophy.  They even took some of the scare out of my favorite creature of the night, werewolves.  When I was young Vampires and Werewolves were as real as cats and dogs and when you went home from your buddy's house in the dark you'd better pay attention and haul ass or you'd be the next victim.  They were as real as that kid who cried outside in the winter and his face stuck taht way.  And if you ever felt your belief waning all you had to do was turn on the TV and Scooby Doo and the 4 O'Clock movie would assure you that such vile and debased creatures existed and were hiding behind every tree waiting to gobble up children.  The reason none of my generation was kidnapped and molested was we were so busy and so adept at avoiding Vampires, Werewolves, Zombies and Frankenseins that we were impossible for regular humans to catch. 


Now it's all gone.  Now anyone can be a vampire.  It's easy.  Everyone knows Vampires shop at Hot Topic, so just head on over and pick yourself out a pair of chunky black boots and a shirt with buckles.  Don't want to leave the house for fear of getting sun on that white skin?  No problem.  Every other role player in your favorite MMORPG is an angst driven, emo - kid Vampire, so role 'em up and get stuck into it.  Nothing is scary, nothing can hurt you and those things that go bump in the night are just friendly spirits watching over you while you sleep.


Yet why would anyone need a friendly ghost to watch over them while they sleep if there is nothing bad out there in the dark?  Because, one day, inevitably, those scary monsters will be back.  Not the half baked emo - kids, but the true souless flesh craving ghouls that stalked my childhood.  In the end we need those terrifying images of the night just like we needed the stalwart and fearless heroes who eventually vanquished them, because when you make the bad guys into the heroes, well then the heroes have to go, and what is this world without the good guys and the bad guys to teach us wrong from right?


They'll be back.  Bank on it.  And when they come ... well those of us who are adept at avoiding them will have to hold classes on how to keep from becoming a statistic.

Oh  and one other thing . . . Someone got rolled in RvR.


This?  This is the best you've got?  Yeah, you really told me didn't you, you two Twinky and a Mountain Dew Dinner llama.  Here are a couple of tips to help you acclimate back into society when EA has the common decency  to pull the server's plugs out of the wall and consign DAoC to sweet cyber oblivion and you get done pining for a DEAD GAME!

1. You're not really a Vampiir, so go outside and get some sun.

2. You can't grind faction with women online.

3. 16 level 50 toons.   Really?

4. Trolling you "DAoC was teh bestest evah" wads is like watching a chimp playing with a bic lighter; at first it's kind of cute and amusing but pretty soon it just smells like burnt chimp, which is pathetic.

Stop embarrassing yourself.  I've watched you guys bend over backwards trying to point to the game mechanic that made DAoC great for years and in all honestly it's gone past pathetic to annoying. 

I'll keep saying this until I die and I'm right, which is why you can't stand it.  The game was good because the people playing it made it good.


Blinders?  Ok, you call it, pot or kettle.  I should have known better than to try and talk sense to a rabid fanboy with no objectivity on the subject.


Lets just start here.  How can you say that not every IP lends itself to three faction warfare is false?  Obviously you DIDN'T read the whole post.


Also I said that realm pride 'STARTED TO DIE" with the implementation of realm points.


Frankly I could go on and on, but I'm wasting time on you.  You'll never see past your own nose on this topic, which is just too bad since you're supposed to have some kind of objectivity. 


I understand you loved it.  Maybe you broke your maiden on it?  I did.  I loved it, but I understand the game didn't love me back and it wasn't the best thing ever to grace the intrawebs with it's presence.  The game you love DIED in 2004.  It's time to let go ... let go!

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