Originally posted by miagisan

Originally posted by Sentinel0

Originally posted by miagisan

Originally posted by Sentinel0

Being out numbered sucks doens't it?  Sounds to be you lost more to the fact that you were out numbered rather than the useful ness of ewar.  As for being pinned, well there are plenty of ways to pin people in EVE that doesn't require specialization.

 

outnumbered? no i was ewar'd. Simple as that, i could have chewed through a bunch of cruisers if i could just lock on to it without being perma jaqmmed, had nothing to do with numbers

 

They could have been in a couple of Vegabonds and you will still have died without being perma jammed.  it's still the cruiser hull but without ewar.  You lost because you were out numbered.  Plan and simple.

 

well in that case it could have been a titan...whats your point? (yes i have been dd'd by a titan lol)

A titan is not on a cruiser hull, thus the comparison is void.  However, Vegabons are cruiser hull which makes the comparison to recons all that more significant.

Originally posted by miagisan

Originally posted by Sentinel0

Being out numbered sucks doens't it?  Sounds to be you lost more to the fact that you were out numbered rather than the useful ness of ewar.  As for being pinned, well there are plenty of ways to pin people in EVE that doesn't require specialization.

 

outnumbered? no i was ewar'd. Simple as that, i could have chewed through a bunch of cruisers if i could just lock on to it without being perma jaqmmed, had nothing to do with numbers

They could have been in a couple of Vegabonds and you will still have died without being perma jammed.  it's still the cruiser hull but without ewar.  You lost because you were out numbered.  Plan and simple.

Being out numbered sucks doens't it?  Sounds to be you lost more to the fact that you were out numbered rather than the useful ness of ewar.  As for being pinned, well there are plenty of ways to pin people in EVE that doesn't require specialization.

Originally posted by miagisan

Originally posted by Sentinel0

I think you missed the part where I said there is NO LONGER a support role before Capitals.  There is used to be, it was called the Falcon.  Then they nerfed it and there's no longer a point to bring ewar ships to battles.

 

For the longest time, Stealth Bombers suck and you wasted your SP by training for it.  So before the recent buff the Stealth Bombers, while it's technically possible you could training into one, there was no point as they weren't competitive.  Black Ops is still in the same situations.  While you could technically get into a Black Ops, there's very little you can do that something else couldn't do just as well.

 

BTW, the Amar Battleship route is pretty much the fastest and most taken road to 0.0 warfare. 

 

Since when is a blackbird not a sub cap ship?

People don't use Blackbirds for the same reason they don't use Falcons anymore.  Range.  Then range of the Blackbird pretty much restricts it to small gang warefare which is a rarity in EVE.  In addition, because the majority of what you will face in any form of gang warefare are Battleships, the weak ECM bonus on the Blackbird makes it ill suited.

@Gedemami

Sorry, I meant when CCP first buffed it.  They were useful for a time now the nerf made them hard to use but effective in coordinated groups.

@Miagisan

I think you missed the part where I said there is NO LONGER a support role before Capitals.  There is used to be, it was called the Falcon.  Then they nerfed it and there's no longer a point to bring ewar ships to battles.

For the longest time, Stealth Bombers suck and you wasted your SP by training for it.  So before the recent buff the Stealth Bombers, while it's technically possible you could training into one, there was no point as they weren't competitive.  Black Ops is still in the same situations.  While you could technically get into a Black Ops, there's very little you can do that something else couldn't do just as well.

BTW, the Amar Battleship route is pretty much the fastest and most taken road to 0.0 warfare. 

As for T3 strategic cruisers.  While it's true that you could technical build these for a veriaty of roles, you don't nessisary fill those roles well or well enough to justify the Multibillion isk price tag.  At this point in time, the only role of T3 ship is to be someone's killmail as anyone anywhere will try to take a swing at you the moment you undock.

Eve is hardly a sandbox.  It's just the most "sandboxy" mmo in the market to day.

Even though you are free to chose what skills to learn you are still inevitably forced into a well defined path.  This is because you need to compete with players older than you meaning you're forced to specialized.  There are several PVP paths but they generally go like this:

Frig > Cruiser > Battle Cruiser > Battleship (Amar) > Dreadnaught (Amar).

Gun(lazors) > drones(Galante) > mechanic > navigation.

After Battleship 5 most people will chose either Capital ship training or T2 ship training at which they specialize into the few T2 ships that's worth getting.  IE HAC, Interceptor, Assault Frig, Recon and Heavy Interdictor.

There is no support role below Capital ship level.  Not since they nerfed the Falcan.

Non PVP usally goes like:

Caldari Frig, Caldari Cruiser > Drake > Raven

Missile > Shields

There's various non-combat roles such as Minning, industry and trade.  Overall that's just an expanded version of crafting, nothing more.

All in all, not exactly Sandbox but it's definitly a lot deeper than anything you'll find on the market.  Of course you pay for that delpth just as much as you would pay for the breadth of content in the "theme park" games.

Originally posted by vmoped

Originally posted by Reizla

There are differences for sure... They basically come down to Elyos being better in healing, and Asmodian better in carnage. It's all in the background of the two races' evolution through the years.

On our L2 clanforum (we mass-hop to Aion), examples were given from Korean/Chinese experiences:

exampe : templar skill
elyos gives damage and block every atack for 15 secs
asmodian gives damage and block 20 atacks (max damage of 10K) for 20 secs
elyos wins since it makes you invincible for 15 secs

example : chanter skill
elyos gives barrier to party memebers absorbing 5K damage and heal every 3 secs hp for 442 (barrier absorbs 50% of damage)
asmodian gives barrier to party members absorbing 6K damage (barrier absorbs 60% of damage)
elyos wins it gives you less barrier but gives you heal which in full scale makes you last longer

No examples on damage, but I expect Asmodian to be superior there ;)

 

I have to disagree with your conjecture on those two skills Reizla: The templar skill is limited to 20 hits for the asmo, but lasts 5 secs longer, so it could be better for a more skilled player who can avoid damage in melee, and due to cast times is better vs. casters. The Chanter skill can end up better for the asmo in heavy damage situations since it will absorb more, while the elyos absorbs less, but applies a slow hot.

There are slight differences in these powers, but each one is just slightly more situational than the other. I do not see one being better than the other.

Don't forget to add that asmodians get black/dark wings, elyos white/light.  Asmos get clawed feet, compared to typical feet on Elyos.

Cheers! =D

It's slightly more than that.  The Asmo version is better for 1 verses 1 fights because it's unlikely 1 opponent can get in 20hits in 20seconds.  Meaning, the Asmo version in effect provides 20seconds of invulnerability versus the Enyo's 15.  However, the Enyo's version is better when facing multiple opponents because it is more likely that multiple people can hit one PC 20 times in 20 seconds.

@ GrumpyMel2

Unfortunately, you are confusing Role with Function.  You can't build a game around Function because it's (A) imposible to balance and (B) reinventing the wheel when the wheel is working just fine.

So what is a Role.  In the modern MMORPG their are only 3 roles.  Tank, DPS, Healer.  This works just fine even outside of the Fantasy genre.  So why fix something that's not broken?

While the Medical officer "function" sounds good on paper, the overwhelming response has been that the audience does not want mini games.  People wants direct interaction with the enemy (ie ships) and interaction with the main environment (space).  A Medical officer is not a Role, it's not even a function.  It's a sub-function that would be part of a job that does multiple functions while filling a role.

Using this system I outlined, it's still possible for 1 PC to pilot a ship.  There would obviously be a way to switch interfaces between the three position.  While 1PC can do the job of 3PCs, 1PC could not perform as many actions per minute.  In addition, 1PC could only access the basic abilities of the other two positions so that only critical functions are accessible.  A "Captain" will only have access to his full library of Navigation and Engineering skills while only able to use basic Tactical and Science skills.  A "Science Officer" will have access to basic "Captain" and "Tactical Officer" skills while having full access to Science skills.

This in effect creates diversity of roles analogue to the Tank, Healer, DPS archtypes in Fantasy MMOs.  While a regular party in other MMOs usually compose of 6PCs, for this system there should be no more than 3PCs per ship.  3PCs could handle just about all aspect of combat.

Within these 3 roles you have different classes.  For Tactical Officer, you could have classes that use Pulse Phasers(Dagger).  Another job uses Beam Phasers(1h Sword), another use Phaser Canons (2H weapons), another use Photon Torpedoes (range) and another use Shuttles (Pet jobs).  Another Tactical class has better shield skills (Tank).

For Captains, you could have Engineer or Pilot.  Pilot has the best Navigation skills with some Engineering skills.  Engineers (healer) offer better damage control with some Piloting skills.

The Science officers are the support classes.  An ECM specialist is the debuff class.

The problem with multicrew ship is how to make everything fun during all phases of combat. Here is my little idea.

STO Starship Combat Mechanic /W 3 man crew

Introductions:
The three man crew of any starship is composed of the Captain, Tactical Officer and Science Officer. Each position is responsible for specific actions during combat. These actions could be activation of equipments or altering the setting of those equipments. These roles together handle the ship operations as determined by the architrave.

Ship architecture is composed of the navigation system (restricted to thrusters and impulse during combat), Shields which are the primary form of defense (HP), weapons to deal damage, sensors (determines which enemy ship can be locked and which enemy can lock onto you), subsystem/equipment performance (slowly reduced as the shields take damage), repair teams to recover the performance of subsystems, and Energy Generation/Energy Consumption.

Every ship has a specific amount of Energy to be used and a rate to which Energy is replenished. All equipment operates on a cycle and requires Energy to activate at the beginning of each cycle. The total amount of Energy is allocated for use by the three Officers. Each Officer has a pool of Energy (a portion of the ship’s total Energy capacity) which replenishes as a percentage of the total amount of energy replenished by the ship. The Captain Position set the amount of Capacitor for each position as well as the portion of replenished Energy from the ship’s Energy recharge.

Example:
USS Kelvan
Total Energy Capacity: 10,000
Total Energy Recharge Time: 5minutes (300seconds)
Total Energy Recharge Rate: 33.3/Second

Captain
Captain’s Energy: 2,000 (20% of the ship’s Total Energy Capacitor)
Recharge rate: 5/Second (~15% of the Total Energy Recharge Rate)
Recharge Time: 400Seconds (Only indirectly related to the Total)

Tactical
Tactical station’s Energy: 5,000 (50% of the ship’s Total Energy Capacitor)
Recharge rate: 20/Second (~60% of the Total Energy Recharge Rate)
Recharge Time: 250Seconds

Science
Science station’s energy: 3,000 (30%)
Recharge rate: 8.3/Second (~25%)
Recharge Time: 361.5Seconds

PART I: The Captain
Role: The Captain assumes the roles traditionally handled by the Pilot and Engineer. During combat, the captain flies the ship, takes Energy from one station and transfers it to another if the need arises and assigns damage control deals to repair damaged subsystems.

Navigation: Ships gain benefits from moving. As the shields are damaged, areas of the shield are weakened to allow increased damage to those areas. By moving the ship, a Captain could take advantage of an enemy’s weakened side or prevent an enemy from hitting his ship’s weakened side. After turning the weakened side away from enemy fire, the captain could then assign damage control teams repair the weakened shields.

PART II: The Tactical Officer
Role: The Tactical officer operates the offensive and defensive systems of the ship.

Weapons: All weapons operate on a frequency basis and deal more or less damage depending on frequencies the enemy’s shields are hardened against. The tactical officer could shift the frequency of the weapons to take advantage of frequencies the enemy is not hardened against. There is no way to determine what the enemy is hardened against other than trial and error.

Shields: Shields operate on frequency hardening. A tactical officer could harden the shields against several available frequencies but not all the available frequencies.

Example:
A Klingon disruptor can fire on the following frequencies:
101.1 GHz
101.2 GHz <<< The Klingon’s tactical officer decides to shoot at 101.2 GHz.
101.3 GHz

The USS Kalvan’s tactical officer can harden against 2 of 3 frequencies:
101.1 GHz <<< Hardened
101.2 GHz <<< Hardened
101.3 GHz

The frequencies 101.1 and 101.2 are Hardened and takes less damage if hit on those frequencies. The Klingons weapons operate at 101.2 GHz and thus the USS Kalvan takes less damage.

During combat, the Tactical officer could shift the hardening to any of the available frequencies. In addition, using certain equipment could weaken the shields against a specific frequency for a time. The Tactical officer could re-Harden against those frequencies but the process would not mitigate as much damage.

PART III: The Science Officer
Role: Scans the target for useful information, ECM and ECCM.

Scanning: A Science Officer could scan an enemy’s ship to determine what frequency their weapons are operating on and what frequency they’re trying to shift their weapons. However, the Science Officer can’t determine the shield frequency. In addition, the use of certain equipment requires a build-up time which leaves a noticeable clue as radiation or strange energy reads. The Science Officer could identify which equipment is being prepared and what frequency it is being fired on, giving your ship a heads up.

When enemy shields are weakened from weapons fire, the Science Officer could scan the enemy to determine which side is weakened as well as the progress of the enemy’s damage control teams.

ECM: All sensor locks operate on a specific set of frequencies. If more than one ship attempts to lock on your ship using the same frequencies it would take each ship additional time to lock on to you. A Science Officer could jam lock frequencies but not all the available frequencies could be jammed. This means that at any given time, your ship is only lockable by sensors of a specific frequency. On a Meta Gaming level, this means that at any given time your ship could only be attacked by a fixed number of enemies. It’s important to note, however, that additional enemies could shift their lock frequency to something you’re not jammed against if they’re willing to pay the lock time penalty.

The Science Officer could shift jamming frequencies if more people are trying to lock on using a new frequency rather than one that’s already jammed.

Other equipment provide various effect such as Transponder Spoofing (A Federation Spoofing the transponder of a Klingon ship to appear as a Klingon) and Decoy. Just to name a few.

ECCM: Electronic Counter-Counter Measure. On the simplest level, the Science officer shifts the lock frequency to something that’s not being jammed by the target. The Science officer would also need to counter Transponder Spoofing, Cloaking, Decoy plus various other tricks.

The problem with multicrew ship is how to make everything fun during all phases of combat.  Here is my little idea.

STO Starship Combat Mechanic /W 3 man crew

Introductions:
The three man crew of any starship is composed of the Captain, Tactical Officer and Science Officer. Each position is responsible for specific actions during combat. These actions could be activation of equipments or altering the setting of those equipments. These roles together handle the ship operations as determined by the architrave.

Ship architecture is composed of the navigation system (restricted to thrusters and impulse during combat), Shields which are the primary form of defense (HP), weapons to deal damage, sensors (determines which enemy ship can be locked and which enemy can lock onto you), subsystem/equipment performance (slowly reduced as the shields take damage), repair teams to recover the performance of subsystems, and Energy Generation/Energy Consumption.

Every ship has a specific amount of Energy to be used and a rate to which Energy is replenished. All equipment operates on a cycle and requires Energy to activate at the beginning of each cycle. The total amount of Energy is allocated for use by the three Officers. Each Officer has a pool of Energy (a portion of the ship’s total Energy capacity) which replenishes as a percentage of the total amount of energy replenished by the ship. The Captain Position set the amount of Capacitor for each position as well as the portion of replenished Energy from the ship’s Energy recharge.

Example:
USS Kelvan
Total Energy Capacity: 10,000
Total Energy Recharge Time: 5minutes (300seconds)
Total Energy Recharge Rate: 33.3/Second

Captain
Captain’s Energy: 2,000 (20% of the ship’s Total Energy Capacitor)
Recharge rate: 5/Second (~15% of the Total Energy Recharge Rate)
Recharge Time: 400Seconds (Only indirectly related to the Total)

Tactical
Tactical station’s Energy: 5,000 (50% of the ship’s Total Energy Capacitor)
Recharge rate: 20/Second (~60% of the Total Energy Recharge Rate)
Recharge Time: 250Seconds

Science
Science station’s energy: 3,000 (30%)
Recharge rate: 8.3/Second (~25%)
Recharge Time: 361.5Seconds

PART I: The Captain
Role: The Captain assumes the roles traditionally handled by the Pilot and Engineer. During combat, the captain flies the ship, takes Energy from one station and transfers it to another if the need arises and assigns damage control deals to repair damaged subsystems.

Navigation: Ships gain benefits from moving. As the shields are damaged, areas of the shield are weakened to allow increased damage to those areas. By moving the ship, a Captain could take advantage of an enemy’s weakened side or prevent an enemy from hitting his ship’s weakened side. After turning the weakened side away from enemy fire, the captain could then assign damage control teams repair the weakened shields.

PART II: The Tactical Officer
Role: The Tactical officer operates the offensive and defensive systems of the ship.

Weapons: All weapons operate on a frequency basis and deal more or less damage depending on frequencies the enemy’s shields are hardened against. The tactical officer could shift the frequency of the weapons to take advantage of frequencies the enemy is not hardened against. There is no way to determine what the enemy is hardened against other than trial and error.

Shields: Shields operate on frequency hardening. A tactical officer could harden the shields against several available frequencies but not all the available frequencies.

Example:
A Klingon disruptor can fire on the following frequencies:
101.1 GHz
101.2 GHz <<< The Klingon’s tactical officer decides to shoot at 101.2 GHz.
101.3 GHz

The USS Kalvan’s tactical officer can harden against 2 of 3 frequencies:
101.1 GHz <<< Hardened
101.2 GHz <<< Hardened
101.3 GHz

The frequencies 101.1 and 101.2 are Hardened and takes less damage if hit on those frequencies. The Klingons weapons operate at 101.2 GHz and thus the USS Kalvan takes less damage.

During combat, the Tactical officer could shift the hardening to any of the available frequencies. In addition, using certain equipment could weaken the shields against a specific frequency for a time. The Tactical officer could re-Harden against those frequencies but the process would not mitigate as much damage.

PART III: The Science Officer
Role: Scans the target for useful information, ECM and ECCM.

Scanning: A Science Officer could scan an enemy’s ship to determine what frequency their weapons are operating on and what frequency they’re trying to shift their weapons. However, the Science Officer can’t determine the shield frequency. In addition, the use of certain equipment requires a build-up time which leaves a noticeable clue as radiation or strange energy reads. The Science Officer could identify which equipment is being prepared and what frequency it is being fired on, giving your ship a heads up.

When enemy shields are weakened from weapons fire, the Science Officer could scan the enemy to determine which side is weakened as well as the progress of the enemy’s damage control teams.

ECM: All sensor locks operate on a specific set of frequencies. If more than one ship attempts to lock on your ship using the same frequencies it would take each ship additional time to lock on to you. A Science Officer could jam lock frequencies but not all the available frequencies could be jammed. This means that at any given time, your ship is only lockable by sensors of a specific frequency. On a Meta Gaming level, this means that at any given time your ship could only be attacked by a fixed number of enemies. It’s important to note, however, that additional enemies could shift their lock frequency to something you’re not jammed against if they’re willing to pay the lock time penalty.

The Science Officer could shift jamming frequencies if more people are trying to lock on using a new frequency rather than one that’s already jammed.

Other equipment provide various effect such as Transponder Spoofy (A Federation Spoofing the transponder of a Klingon ship to appear as a Klingon) and Decoy. Just to name a few.

ECCM: Electronic Counter-Counter Measure. On the simplest level, the Science officer  shifts the lock frequency to something that’s not being jammed by the target. The Science officer would also need to counter Transponder Spoofing, Cloaking, Decoy plus various other tricks.