Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by birdycephon
There is something about kickstarter that makes me feel ill. Maybe its just the ammount of risk involved. I mean, whats stopper ng people from just collecting the money and running off with it?

"Risk"??  Hell, the worst that can happen is that you lose some money.  Do your own research and make your own choices. Don't back a KS project for more than you can afford to lose.  I can always make more money. What I can't do is come up with an entertaining game, at any given time. 

Exactly. If anything, you take a greater risk purchasing a $59.99 game based on the multimillion dollar marketing hype that says "Trust us! It'll be good!" By contrast, you see a game on Kickstarter that strikes your fancy, offer up $25, and then you have a voice in how the game will be developed.

What I really love about this KS revolution is that the more niche genres that have gone by the wayside in the mainstream due to homogenization are now able to rise up. A lot of old-school single player RPG fans have been left out of the loop in favor of things like Bioware's dysfunctional romance simulators or FPS/RPG hybrids that rely more on player twitch than character stats. Now, there's Project Eternity, Wasteland 2, Shadowrun Returns (which looks fantastic in a recently released Alpha video) that harken back to the original golden age of CRPGs, and none of that would have been possible without crowdfunding.

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by jonrd463

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by Reizla

Originally posted by xeniar

I don't really get why Males play female characters..

Are you that insecure about your posible gayness that you HAVE to stare at a female pixxel ass in order to feel confident about yourselves?

As i always play a tank/melee class i want them to look badass with that heavy armor so i alway play male. Also because i am a male. i jsut never roll anything with mana:P

I think this topic in general has more to do with the general homophobic nature of most players. Personally I don't give a damn if someone plays male or female.

About latent homosexual feelings... I'm as straight as you can get it (married, have a son - yeah I know, good cover ^^) , but I prefer to look a nice (pixeled) chichs ass over that of a male :-D

 I believe it's guys who think it's "ODD" for a guy to play female pixels are certainly homophobic and likely in denial of something.   Just look how many of those types of guys eventually come out as gay/bi later in life.  Most people just don't care about it.

On the other hand, it could be pedo type guys who are trolling around for children and upset when they find out it's an adult male. lol.

In any case, they really need to take a deep look at themselves.

I think the opposite is true. This isn't about ALL of the males playing females, only the ones that go out of their way to explain it with lame excuses, like not wanting want to look at a male toon's butt. Sexual insecurity at it's most pure, right there. That they're worried they would be seen as gay tells me that there might even be latent homosexual tendencies somewhere deep inside, and because of upbringing, culture, or whatever, they overcompensate to hide it. It might not even be a conscious thing, either.

Tell me you like to roleplay and wanted to explore doing a female character, and I won't flinch. Tell me you like variety, and I'll nod in agreement. Tell me that it makes ZERO difference to you what form or gender your character is, because it all comes down to gameplay, and I'll flash a thumbs up. Tell me because looking at a male character's butt is gay, and I'll make DAMN sure not to drop the soap around you if we're ever in a group shower together.

 You can see it anyway you want.  Most people don't care what others do.  It's ODD when people become busy bodies about it.  You know wanting to start something about it.  They bring it up because it's their issue. 

For me,  I played a tauren in wow because I wanted to have sex with a cow or be a cow. I don't but people who think along those lines might just be dumb.  I see them as potential gay/bi (like a cousin I have) or pedos because it's their issue.

As to gender, it's just pixels. that's what I believe.  You want to take it to something else, your problem/issue.

Just so it's understood, I never said all males playing female characters had something to hide-- only those so insecure about their own sexuality that they feel as if looking at pixels somewhat resembling a man's clothed butt is a banner over their heads saying "Look at me! I'm teh ghey!"

This, of course, excludes teens deep in the throes of puberty, however. They play female characters for one reason, and one reason only. I tend to give them a pass, because they're likely at that stage of development where they'd fap to a Coke bottle, just because it's curvy. At some point, they'll grow out of it.

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by Reizla

Originally posted by xeniar

I don't really get why Males play female characters..

Are you that insecure about your posible gayness that you HAVE to stare at a female pixxel ass in order to feel confident about yourselves?

As i always play a tank/melee class i want them to look badass with that heavy armor so i alway play male. Also because i am a male. i jsut never roll anything with mana:P

I think this topic in general has more to do with the general homophobic nature of most players. Personally I don't give a damn if someone plays male or female.

About latent homosexual feelings... I'm as straight as you can get it (married, have a son - yeah I know, good cover ^^) , but I prefer to look a nice (pixeled) chichs ass over that of a male :-D

 I believe it's guys who think it's "ODD" for a guy to play female pixels are certainly homophobic and likely in denial of something.   Just look how many of those types of guys eventually come out as gay/bi later in life.  Most people just don't care about it.

On the other hand, it could be pedo type guys who are trolling around for children and upset when they find out it's an adult male. lol.

In any case, they really need to take a deep look at themselves.

I think the opposite is true. This isn't about ALL of the males playing females, only the ones that go out of their way to explain it with lame excuses, like not wanting want to look at a male toon's butt. Sexual insecurity at it's most pure, right there. That they're worried they would be seen as gay tells me that there might even be latent homosexual tendencies somewhere deep inside, and because of upbringing, culture, or whatever, they overcompensate to hide it. It might not even be a conscious thing, either.

Tell me you like to roleplay and wanted to explore doing a female character, and I won't flinch. Tell me you like variety, and I'll nod in agreement. Tell me that it makes ZERO difference to you what form or gender your character is, because it all comes down to gameplay, and I'll flash a thumbs up. Tell me because looking at a male character's butt is gay, and I'll make DAMN sure not to drop the soap around you if we're ever in a group shower together.

Originally posted by CalmOceans

Originally posted by Talonsin

 

I have my wife talk on teamspeak and people think I am a real girl

 

you guys are starting to creep me out,  you use your wife to pretend you're a girl on teamspeak?

....wtf o.O

I find the fact that his wife doesn't like him playing male characters even more creepy.

99% of the time, I play male, because I roleplay, and as a male IRL, I just can't pull off roleplaying a female. I've tried, and it comes off as cliche and slightly creepy, since more often than not, someone eventually proposes cybersex. I don't usually judge other people by what gender they choose to play as, but I do judge them on their rationalizations for it. Any time someone explains it away by saying they would rather look at a sexy ass as they play, I just shake my head and laugh. I've never been sexually motivated by game characters. And besides, I'm too busy scanning for threats in the world around me as I move through the game world to be staring at my character's butt.

It's kinda funny how freudian these types of threads get. You start learning a lot about your fellow gamers, despite their own attempts to obfuscate what's really going on. ;)

Edited to add-- For games that force you into playing a female, i.e. Tomb Raider or The Longest Journey, it's different. Usually, they're of the action or adventure variety, and I see the PC as simply my interface into the game world and the vehicle through which the story is told. I don't identify with the character on any deeper level, other than to understand their specific role in the story, and how best to approach in-game situations.

Originally posted by Venomizer2

Foundations is an unhealthy trend. Something self-aware consumers should avoid.

Self-Awareness is the key point here. Ultimately, as has been stated over and over, it's still the consumer who makes the decision to buy. Whether or not it's a wise decision is purely subjective. If a person can afford to spend the money, more power to him. If he can't, then he should consider what's best for his own financial health, and reap the consequences for poor decision making.

It creates a market where competing companies have to bilk the consumer in advance to be on equal footing for funding. Who is the one getting exploited in this scheme? The consumer. So, as consumers, we should not feed into an arrangement that is exploitive. If we as a community cannot exercise enough foresight to avoid this pitfall then maybe we deserve to be abused in this way.

Once again, consumers are the ones making the decision to buy. If they don't, and the companies end up going out of business, then perhaps the companies need to offer something consumers find value in. It's marketplace darwinism. On the other hand, if consumers feel like paying to access a beta is worth it, well, once again, their money, their choice.

Originally posted by someforumguy

Lol, if anything he asked others to stop being  socialists. Asking to stop giving those gamecompanies money, as if thinking that devs from big gamecompanies need wellfare (in the form of fundrais..ehh founderpacks:p )

So... uh... where do you think "big gamecompanies" get their money? Some currency farting magical unicorn?

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by jonrd463

 

Responsibilities are implied if one is to claim rights. I know this is an international forum, but in terms of the US and its constitution, which is what most people think of when one says "bill of rights", we have the right to vote, but we have the responsibility to educate ourselves on the issues. We have the right to keep and bear arms, but we have the responsibility to secure them from misuse. We have the right to free speech, but we have the responsibility to not use that right to defame, slander, or otherwise materially harm another with it. We have the right to assembly, but we have the responsibility to not assemble in such a way that would deprive another of their freedoms, etc... etc...

In a nutshell, we have all sorts of rights, but we have the responsibility to abide by the laws that govern society. While one could make a case for civil disobedience, those are extreme cases and doesn't apply to 99% of rights and the responsibilities that go hand in hand.

So in gaming terms, yeah, we have the right to this, that, and the other, but who is willing to stand up and say players have responsibilities, too?

Where in the constitution says I have those responsibilities? Those are desires .. but there is no enforcement of any kind. People routinely votes without even read through all the relevant materials, and i don't have to tell you about the mis-use of fire arms in recent months.

Games .. are just entertainment. I don't see there is any responsibility. I will play it my way and have fun. That is more or less .. it.

It's in the laws that society enacts. For example, freedom of speech is a right. Libel and slander are criminal offenses. Another responsibility that goes along with rights is an understanding of how they relate. Otherwise you get "Hey, if it feels good, man, do it!" with an implied "...and damn the consequences!"

Originally posted by Isturi

Originally posted by jonrd463

Originally posted by waynejr2

Where is your list of responsibilities?

You have no idea how much I wish MMORPG.com would add a "Like" or rating function to forum posts right now.

 Responsiblities for?? Many things to be responsible for.

Responsibilities are implied if one is to claim rights. I know this is an international forum, but in terms of the US and its constitution, which is what most people think of when one says "bill of rights", we have the right to vote, but we have the responsibility to educate ourselves on the issues. We have the right to keep and bear arms, but we have the responsibility to secure them from misuse. We have the right to free speech, but we have the responsibility to not use that right to defame, slander, or otherwise materially harm another with it. We have the right to assembly, but we have the responsibility to not assemble in such a way that would deprive another of their freedoms, etc... etc...

In a nutshell, we have all sorts of rights, but we have the responsibility to abide by the laws that govern society. While one could make a case for civil disobedience, those are extreme cases and doesn't apply to 99% of rights and the responsibilities that go hand in hand.

So in gaming terms, yeah, we have the right to this, that, and the other, but who is willing to stand up and say players have responsibilities, too?

Originally posted by waynejr2

Where is your list of responsibilities?

You have no idea how much I wish MMORPG.com would add a "Like" or rating function to forum posts right now.

Originally posted by Isturi

Originally posted by Cephus404

You have no rights.  There is a game.  If you want to play the game, go ahead.  If you don't like the way the game is played, stop playing.

Those are your only rights.

 I disagree, customer service should always be number one with any thing. Why Should I spend any of my money on any MMO game if I feel that I have no rights? I will not.

That, in principle is *precisely* your "bill of rights". Don't feel like a game satisfies your needs? Stop playing. Find something else. This touches on something else that pisses me off about modern gamers, and that is this notion that every game ever made must cater to every playstyle and interest. Period. From people complaining about a game that's brutal by design being "too haaaaarrrrd!!!", such as Dark Souls, to people complaining that a game like Darkfall doesn't have PvE worth mentioning. To me, it's like saying "Why doesn't this bicycle have 3 wheels!? I demand they add another wheel to this bicycle!!" Because... then it would be a tricycle...?

Sorry... went off on a tangent, but it is somewhat related to the whole entitlement angle. Yes, I know, the OP wasn't so much about petty entitlements people have, but enough people brought it up that it's worth talking about.

Originally posted by Robokapp

Originally posted by dwarflordking

Every time a new western mmo comes out they would brag that its innovative and new, 

 

but makes no mention that koreans have been doing it for years.. a full blown console level real time action game like tera has been around forever and nothing in the west has come close in terms of gameplay and style of action..

 

yet games like guildwars and ESO start bragging about its dated combat..  I remember SWTOR bragging the crap out of its amazing innovative combat system.. when you actually see the game its the same point and click crap...

 

Why dont they look at the competition and see that they are inferior.. look at a kiddy mmo like dragon nest and watch a pvp battle and tell me what in the west matches that? its real time action with every action conducted by the crosshair aiming.. no auto aim crap....

 

Do western devs need a reality check? they are way behind in innovation/ style/ gamplay.. sure theres shitty korean games but there are amazing ones and they outnumber western games by alot

the player - character relationship is a concept you seem to have no knowledge of.

 

Why must the player aim when the character is the one on the battlefield ?

 

You just summed up what is wrong with all modern MMORPGs. The invasion of the "I'm a pro gamer with skillz!" set that have slowly turned virtual worlds into virtual arenas, completely removing the RPG aspect. Here's hoping the resurgence of the sandbox will herald the return of character-driven play.

Originally posted by Gorwe

Thank You all for your advices! Yes, even you Starpower, even tho you are blocked :D

Wait, what? You blocked the guy for giving his honest opinion in a way that wasn't even the least bit trolling? So you require other people to tell you what you like, and when someone gives a sound reason why not, you block them?

Yeah, go ahead and block me, too. I can't see myself ever engaging a schizoid like yourself in a reasonable and objective conversation anyway.

Originally posted by Aeonblades

Originally posted by Mardukk

Originally posted by Aeonblades
Sorry Vanguard, I had high hopes from the beginning, but years of neglect can't be made up for by a very badly done B2P model. When are you people gonna realize that no one can play the game with the stupid limitations you set? It's like how on EQ I tried the F2P version, you can't even get enough money to buy gear because of coin limitations. Crap like that has no place if you want F2P to work.

 

You can level up (through countless amounts of content) which can take quite some time and not run into an item you need to unlock, in EQ. I really wonder about people and what they claim is unplayable... So SOE lifts some restrictions and people act like they added more...lol.

 

You missed the point entirely. When I log onto Vanguard, which I paid full price for, and I can't play any of my old characters because of gear restrictions, who does that punish? The greedy turd or the loyal customer who bought it and played for almost a year. I gave them more money than they are going to make on 90% of these F2P players, so what is my incentive to play if I can't play my characters because they are all half naked? Gear restrictions are silly. Coin limitations are silly (in pretty much every SoE title) It's just bad business.

When you paid full price for Vanguard, you did so under the agreement that you would be paying a $15/month  subscription fee for unlimited access beyond the free initial month. That option is still available.

Originally posted by Torgir
Looked great until I got to the part where I'm not allowed to use most higher than blue items as a free player. Ridiculous limitation and sadly in line with other SOE f2p titles. Now I understand that you have to make money from something but poor f2p model is a poor model. If you're planning on attractive membership benefits, please review the free player deal.