Originally posted by Ihmotepp

...I suppose it's an improvement, but SL still doesn't hold much attraction for me, since there is no game. However, if you are looking for online 3d cyber sex, second life looks pretty well developed from a simple google images of sex second life.

Interesting...  It seems to hold some attraction for you to bring a URL from another site to this one. 

What was it the Queen said in Hamlet?...  "Methinks the lady doth protest too much." (Yes, I know it is a misquote.)

Originally posted by Raltar

Originally posted by Rachell

I believe there will be enough people who are interested in a virtual 3D interaction with a store or a virtual classroom that it will sustain the corporate involvement.

As I’ve said in another posting, the technology is not “there” yet. I do believe it is getting better and I do believe there will be a customer base to support it.

If a single person can do this with a one person business, surely the corporate world can do much more.

Ok, maybe I am one of those “fanboys” you mentioned, but I feel we will never know who is right unless it is tried. Maybe we’re betting on another Enron. Maybe we’re betting on another Microsoft. Time will tell. I’m just glad we have a chance to find out.
 

 

The problem is, you are talking as if SL just came out last week and this is some untested platform with unlimited potental. The reality is that SL has been around for years and coporate parties have already tried to set up shop in the virtual world and largely failed. That isn't something which is going to change as SL gets older and the technology behind it becomes increasingly more obsolete.

I already gave you the example of Nike. They made the classic mistake with SL. They started in SL back during its major heyday and assumed because Newsweek and other old media sources couldn't shut up about how SL was the next big thing that they obviously had to get in on the action. So they quickly ran into SL, bought up several islands and paid someone to start designing all kinds of zany stuff on those islands in the vain hope that it would somehow attract a horde of people to them so they could show off their products.

But what happened? Ghost town. They built these huge buildings and all kinds of other fancy stuff (I remember they even had a giant flying blimp with some kind of stuff inside of it) and NOBODY CAME. At any given time of day there might be one or two people walking around in the whole thing, if even that. They would ghost around for a bit, look at what was going on and then it was off to some other area. Nike spent some ungodly sum of money to design an area that was meant to hold HUNDREDS of people at one time but what they got was an area that was lucky if it saw that many people in an entire month. They spent thousands upon thousands of dollars on this just to rent the land alone for a single month and barely anyone sees it or is even aware of its existance. They could have run a TV ad on a station in North Dakota and gotten more exposure, probably for less money.

Many other corporate businesses have done the same and seen similar results. I'm guessing you probably still have Second Life installed on your computer right now (I don't anymore) so go ahead and do some traveling to see for yourself. Search for every coprorate owned area in the game you can find and see how many people are in those areas right now. Most will be empty. A few might have one or two people. If you get very lucky you might stumble upon one that has some kind of planned event happening and may have a half dozen or more people there at the same time.

And it isn't just that people aren't interested in corporate areas in the world. Every area in Second Life is like this. The vast majority of the virtual world is a ghost town. I've seen amazing places in SL. Huge, well designed sims full of incredible things that someone obviously invested an amazing amount of time working on... And the place will still be a ghost town despite this. An empty, boring ghost town.

We keep hearing that there are SOOOO many people playing this game. But where the hell are they and what are they doing? Well a quick scan of the world map for the game can show you where everyone is loacted. And sure enough atleast a good 90% of the population will be crammed into a hand full of "adult" areas. "Dance" clubs, strip clubs, porn shops, stores selling genitalia and/or sex animations and of course people in "private" areas doing things that need not be mentioned. The other 10% will be sitting around in some public area chatting (treating the game like exactly what it is: A chat room with graphics) or simply wandering around the world, visiting one area at a time to briefly glance at whatever there is to see there before moving on a few minutes later. Its only this small 10% of the population given to doing actual exploring of the world who will ever see the coprorate areas and I can't honestly see them sticking around for very long much less spending any money.

Linden knows that the majority of their customers are in their world for the adult content. But they know sooner or later a better service is going to come along and render them obsolete. So they want to expand and get a better reputation for themselves by appealing to the same crowd that they already failed with: Corporate customers. This move to try to restrict the "adult" content to certain confined areas is an attempt to make the world more appealing to people usually turned away by that sort of thing, but it won't change what Second Life is. By restricting the adult content to a specific area you only restrict the PEOPLE to that area as well. The rest of the world will remain an empty ghost town.

Sorry it's taken me so long to reply, but life happens.    I apologize if I make it sound like SL has only been around for a short time.  I've been in world for two and a half years.  Some consider me an "old timer," but there are many older than me who are still in world regularly.  

I agree, corporations have failed several times with their ventures in SL.  Strange enough, there are still many who keep trying.  That's what makes a free market such a wonderful thing.  That is also why SL *IS* changing.  It is constantly evolving.  I don't agree with all of it, but then again, I didn't put the money into the venture to create SL.  Contrary to how it may seem, big companies did not put big money into creating areas that are failures.  Nike for example put a few thousand dollars into SL as a potential marketing environment.  The money they spent was probably only a fraction of what they have spent on any single TV marketing add.  The risk was low.  The potential was high.  Did it pay off?  Only Nike can answer that, but either way it did not cost them much to try. 

You mention the huge Ghost Towns where "Nobody came."  I have to admit, I don't like the big corporate sims.  They don't so anything for me.  I am quite sure most others feel the same way.  That doesn't tell me anything other than the company who built it didn't build anything worth taking some of my time.  It says nothing about SL.  It only says the company who built the area made a mistake and has no reflection on other companies in SL or LL itself.   Yes, I still have SL on my computer.  I spend a little time there every week tending to my stores.  You are correct, the big name corporate areas (what few are left) are virtually empty.   That just tells me SL may not be a venue for them or they just haven't found a way to use this venue to their advantage. 

As I write this, there are over 60,000 accounts logged on.  Using your numbers, that means there are over 6,000 active people taking part is something other than Adult related activities.  That's just the people who are not in bed sleeping in their part of the real world.  After many of the current 6,000 log off, there will be others who log on to replace them.   That would mean about 12,000 active people in world doing something besides Adult activities in any given 24 hour time span.  Not a huge number, but still, nothing to sneeze at. 

If some of those people want to use SL as a "chat room with graphics," more power to them.  If others want to use it as a 3D development environment for brain storming, GREAT!  That's kind of what I use it for.  If still others want to use it as a place for cyber adult activities, while I don't agree with their choice, they now have their own little part of the SL word to BOINK their little cyber brains out. 

However, I don't agree with your last paragraph.  While I am sure LL knows a large majority of their current customer base is interested in Adult Content, they (LL) are evolving the world.  They are making changes and improvements, but I don't think they really believe someone will come along and render them obsolete.  SL started out as an experiment, a "what if" to explore.  Basically, it started with very little restriction on a resident's actions.  As any educated person will tell you, a world without rules is a world in chaos.  It takes time, sometimes a very long time, to build not just a city, but a society.  Such a society requires rules.  Those rules have slowly, reluctantly been added to the SL world.  If that means the sims have more and more unowned lots, I'm okay with that.  It simply means balance is coming to SL.  My customers (and I still have many customers every week to buy my products) simply don't have to deal with all the clutter.  

I know I will never convince you SL is a good place.  I'm not trying to do that.  You don't like SL so you don't go there and that's fine.  I don't like Chicago, IL or Kansas City, KS so I don't go to those places any more.  I also don't care for the adult content area of SL so I don't have any reason to go there either.  

I send you good thoughts, Raltar.  May you find the virtual world that makes you happy or the physical world that makes all virtual worlds moot. 

Originally posted by Raltar

***

Yes, there are quite a few people who have replied to this thread to tell us how wonderful Second Life is and ramble on about how creative it allows people to be. Every game has its fanboys who will refuse to see any flaws their game of choice may have (go see the posts from Ztyx in the Dark & Light forum if you don't believe me). And yes, even I have been impressed by some of the areas and content I've seen in Second Life.

But the fact remains that when you actually visit a lot of these "amazing" areas in the game you will find that you are the ONLY person there. You can walk around and look at the various things people have created, but when the majority of the world is a ghost town this can only hold your attention for so long.

***

 With all of that said, will this new rule wipe out adult content from Second Life? I don't think so. Some of the "adult" users may be peeved that they have to limit their dirty business to a perticular part of the world but in theory that has always been the rule anyway. These people really have nowhere else to go to get the same experience, so I'm guessing the majority of them who have been doing it this long will find a way to keep doing it, whatever it takes.

But if Linden thinks this is going to help them get more corporate and education customers then they have another thing coming. Just like every other area of the game, the areas owned by guys like Nike were just as empty as the rest of the world. My guess is that the guy who made the Nike area got bored with being a virtual shoe salesman and went off to the "adult" areas to find himself some virtual "action" to partake of.

I have to respectfully disagree. I’ve been in SL for a couple years now. I have friends there and we enjoy “playing” at being business owners. However, the real life corporations and education customers, in my opinion, are looking at SL with an eye to a more involved customer relationship as opposed to a simple web site. No, it will not be the right venue for everyone, but I believe there will be enough people who are interested in a virtual 3D interaction with a store or a virtual classroom that it will sustain the corporate involvement.

As I’ve said in another posting, the technology is not “there” yet. I do believe it is getting better and I do believe there will be a customer base to support it. Will it be the same SL we currently take part in? Probably not, but since SL is only guided by Linden Labs and the residents are the people who actually create the content, it is reasonable to surmise people will make SL what they want it to be.

As an example, I know two “real life” business people in the clothing industry who are looking at SL to help their business. One makes custom motorcycle leathers. He is creating a store where people can walk in and see high quality, real life pictures of his products. He will have alternate avatars (AV’s) that act only as models to give the customer an alternate perspective of the products he offers. Will this business idea work? I don’t know and neither does he, but the investment in minimal and the potential return is worth a little free time “in world” to find out.

If a single person can do this with a one person business, surely the corporate world can do much more. Additionally, this is just one small aspect of the platform’s potential so even if Adult Content is restricted, I still believe there is a good use for the SL platform.

Ok, maybe I am one of those “fanboys” you mentioned, but I feel we will never know who is right unless it is tried. Maybe we’re betting on another Enron. Maybe we’re betting on another Microsoft. Time will tell. I’m just glad we have a chance to find out.
 

Actually, Raltar’s statement that “’creators’ in SL have already shown what they will do with any tool given to them” is where I see the positive side of all this. If it is Handsfree3D (HF3D) or some other option, I believe the people in SL will use it if they feel in enhances their SL experience. I believe HF3D is on the right track, they just have a long way to go.

I also believe Eladi is right on the money. VR glasses will allow a first person experience. A head tracking device (I’ve seen them, but don’t remember a brand name off hand) will do the same as moving the mouse to see in different directions. Just don’t sit to close to your desk and make sure your chair can turn 360 deg. . Then take the left and right mouse button switches from a cordless mouse and apply them to one hand (that’s the mouse hack.) On the other hand put two other buttons for your up and down keys (that’s the keyboard hack) so you can walk forward & backward. 

The only problem with my “hack” idea is creating and building. That’s where someone with more skill than I have, will need to re-code the SL GUI to improve the way such hacks can be used. Fortunately, it is an open source system for the talented coder.

I know, I’m dreaming, but I like SL more for its potential than what it is at the moment. For that I ask you to forgive my daydreaming.
 

Originally posted by axlebookmite

For me it's

1. Blingtards who wear so much bling that they could light up a airport with it.

2.Bloodlines.

3. Free unverifed accounts which turn out to be throwaway griefers.

4. bots.

5. LL breaking existing content that causes customers to get mad at you.

I would see it this way.

1.  Bloodlines.  People who use any bite requests on my property gets banned & after a week they may ASK to be removed from the ban list.  If they apologize right after I ban them (I always send them a notice) I will normally remove the ban right away, but they will get an ear full before that happens.

2.  Land butchers who cut up land & try to get you to pay way to much for it.  These people are gaming the system.  There are 3 near 2 of my stores.  I have lovely, 100m towers around them since I own the land on all 4 sides of them.  The land they butchered is useless to anyone and they refuse to sell for anything less than prices like L$777 for a single 16m2.  They are a waste of cyber skin.

3.  UFO's or Unattended Flying Objects.  You know, that F16 some newbie got his hands on then tried to fly it through a No Fly Zone.  The property owner is never around and this eye sore floats in the air for months. 

4.  Bots don't bother me so much.  I use a couple in my store as models.  However, gaming the numbers, that's a bit of a pain.

5.  LL has the right to make or break the rules as they see fit.  I don't like it sometimes, but as all adults eventually learn, life ain't fair & we don't always get our way.  I'll get over it, move on and adapt. 

I just looked at the latest info I could find on their system. Granted, it's very interesting, but to tell the truth, how many people do you really think would use such a bulky system in SL? I see the system as having great possibilities for creating animations, but for actually working and interacting in SL, I have my doubts.

However, don't think I'm being a complete naysayer regarding alternative interfacing. With a small tweak to the GUI and some off the shelf hardware, I believe a person could do much the same with VR glasses (ok, I know they are expensive), a head tracking device and an animation control glove created by a modded mouse & keyboard.

These guys at Handsfree3d.com are doing some great work and I believe it will be useful in some way; just not as a primary interface for movement & creating objects.

Just remember, in SL there is role play gangster and there is griefer.  If you go to just any sim or any person's property and create a disturbance, you will be lucky if they only ban you from their property.  There are many powerful scripts to run in SL.  No script is more powerful than one run by a property owner.  They can freeze you in place, explain the error of your ways to you, then kick you into high orbit.  If you are not skilled in how SL works, you could be traveling for quite a while before finally crashing and being forced to log back on again.  By that time you will have been reported to LL and a griefing complaint will go on your avatar's record. 

If you want to play gangsta, go to the right sim for it.  If you want to cause trouble throughout other sims, be ready to have your account terminated in the end.  Rules against griefing are getting stronger all the time.   Better to just play nice and get along with those who have already put out the expense for the serious defense systems.

Originally posted by Arra_Jinx

There is some speculation that LL is doing this to gain total control over intellectual properties. Should this be the case they will most likely move of second inventory next to collect that asset. This brings about a concept of personal ownership in a virtual world, the creators have their concept of intellectual property, but because the items in question were made within a virtual world format own by another company does that item belong then to the creator of the virtual world?

The question of ownership would, IMHO, depend on the terms of service (TOS) for the platform.  While I have read the TOS before, I must sadly admit I have not read it lately.  There are many development companies out there with employee agreements that state any creation while in their employ is the property of the company.  Much the same could be said of SL.  LL has the platform through which nothing in would could be created without said platform's and LL's permission.  Therefore, it would be arguable that anything created would be ultamately the property of LL. 

As to the original question of LL's objective by aquiring independent sales systems, I am less convinced it is a matter of gaining control of products as I am sure it is another form of controling funds.  Many people put real world money into the system.  By reducing the amount of L$ in the system, they create a need for more real $ to be put back in.  Take Xstreet (formally SLExchange) for instance.  With every sale, there is a small fee.  That fee is of no real value to LL except for the fact it takes L$ out of circulation.  The fee is tiny in comparison to any given item, but is huge when added to all the other items sold in any given period of time. 

Again, this is just my opinion of their objectives, but from a business standpoint, it makes sence.