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All Posts by Torval

All Posts by Torval

317 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last
6334 posts found

I think both of your reasons make sense. They want to do both and launching the Titan X will accomplish that.

If AMD can afford to make a better card than the 980 for $550 and drop the price on the 290 then maybe they could throw a wrench in the Nvidia domination plan with the Titan X. Yeah for marketing purposes they will be able to claim the top graphics card, but for a hefty price tag it makes me wonder how successful it will be. If AMD can offer a better card than the 980 for the same price it would drive down the 980 price which would make the price gap with the Titan X seem even more ridiculous than it will be.

I've been messing around with builds lately centered around a 970 because of the power requirement for the amount of practical performance. The 980 is too much money for what it offers and the high end 290s seem like power pigs by comparison. It's not cost or performance that keeps me shying away from AMD, but power consumption and heat. I think there is wiggle room for AMD to disrupt Nvidia's strategy without worrying about having the top dog card.

Originally posted by JJ82
  • The player doesn’t have to pay before trying the game.
  • F2P means that the curious or the friend-recommended can easily download and try the game without risk.
  • Generally increased game revenue.
 
The F2P Pros listed above...oh boy...
 
1. A game doesn't need to be F2P to allow a player to try it before buying it, have a Free Trial.
2.  This is a repeat of #1 made into a second one to make the list longer and seem equal to the cons which it isn't...not even close.
3. Will only increase game revenue for a garbage game that cannot retain players via a subscription. Make a good game, people will continue to pay to play it. It really is that simple as can be seen by so many old games that still have people paying to play them.
 

F2P is a poison to the consumer and a boon to game makers not making a quality product.

Did you read the article? He explained that data shows free trial doesn't pay off the same way as F2P. People don't engage in it. He even explained that there is a huge discussion about the reasons why and that it just doesn't return the same way.

See I think subscription locking is a scam. Renting your games is a scam. The whole timesink treadmill to perpetuate the rental fee is a scam. I've been there and done it since my first mmo. It reminded me of renting game time on Prodigy and I hated that.

Originally posted by rojoArcueid
Originally posted by Torval
Originally posted by rojoArcueid
nice, looking forward to the PS4 version. Point and click on PC is a no-no for me.

I don't mind point and click, but I would rather controller support be added to PC versions of games that will have a console port. The more I play with a controller the more I like it when games offer that support. It doesn't work for every game, but there are a lot out there where it would work great, especially action games like arpgs, tacticals, and the like.

i agree. I do have my reasons to avoid point and click like a plague. Many years ago i just didnt like it, now that im more flexible with game types i just cant do it. My right hand gets a bit swollen and it hurts. A nerve conduction study determined its not carpal tunnel, but it still hurts using the mouse for more than a few minutes. So yeah, having gamepad support on PC games like ARPGs would be amazing. I would die happy if Gazillion adds gamepad support to Marvel Heroes or just port it to consoles. I think Wasteland 2 could use pc support for gamepad too, definitelly.

Haha, I was totally thinking of Marvel Heroes, Neverwinter, and TL2 when I wrote that. I know I can download that xpad program, but I won't. I'm not sure if there is an extra expense involved with adding support in the PC version that keeps them from doing this.

Originally posted by rojoArcueid
nice, looking forward to the PS4 version. Point and click on PC is a no-no for me.

I don't mind point and click, but I would rather controller support be added to PC versions of games that will have a console port. The more I play with a controller the more I like it when games offer that support. It doesn't work for every game, but there are a lot out there where it would work great, especially action games like arpgs, tacticals, and the like.

Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Adjuvant1
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

 My review would be one sentence. All the people who enjoyed not only UO, but also mostly all the Ultima series RPGs, should be playing this game, because if they don't, they miss something major, or they are just not Ultima fans like they pretend to be.

My opinion of SotA isn't shared with yours and I don't really, even understand yours. Is it like, "It's great because it's Ultima! Deal with it!"? It's not great just because it's made by Lord British. It's not Ultima. If it's going to be great, it sure as hell isn't showing those colors yet.

Ultima was great because it brought that open-world adventure sense, what people today refer as "sandbox" (ugh) to the table. Similarly, UO brought good, novel game concepts to the table. I don't see what SotA is bringing to the table. Maybe they have yet to set the table. It looks more like they have yet to buy the table, on which they'd care to set something they'd bring...

I seriously doubt you even played SotA. The open world of the Ultima games was built exactly like SotA is, with a map and interest points it was zooming in to.

I guess you only played UO, since you wouldn't post such nonsense if you had been there in the golden age of Ultima, during Ultima IV and beyond.

SotA is inspired by what many consider the best computer RPGs ever made, and stays true to them. Problem is, the modern video gamer will never be able to adapt to that. It's not instant gratification, it's not keyboad facerolling quests.

I'm just waiting for it to mature a little more and possibly for a good Steam sale because I'm cheap, err frugal, that way. From all the game play videos I've seen it very much reminds me of Ultima play. It's not Ultima but it looks like it has a similar style and feel.

I love reading these threads with the raging disenfranchised very vocal minority. For all the raging they've pretty much shown that the industry can't sustain itself, no, their demographic can't sustain the industry on a mandatory subscription model that doesn't include secondary sources of revenue. Other than a few old titles slowly lingering on their way to the graveyard, every P2P game has and/or keeps adding more and more revenue streams (FFXIV, EVE, WoW, etc). We even see this with the gorilla that is going to add RMT "Play to Pay" in the near future.

Personally, I prefer hybrid games with an upfront "box" fee, or B2P. I really hope ESO's model becomes the template for future revenue systems. I don't mind F2P but the negative point about trolls is true. Sometimes I think some P2P freaks go and make accounts on F2P games just to spew their hatred. In any event having a nominal "box" fee cuts down on this. It also provides some direct return on every account created. The trick, I think, is to not have that initial fee be too high and for it to include enough of the game that players don't fee immediately driven to a cash shop.

Anyway it was a good read. I hope to see what new project(s) Georgeson gets involved with after some rest and time off.

Originally posted by Ridelynn

It took Glide to really get us to DirectX, and to push OpenGL to look at more than just workstation-scale render machines and push towards a gaming-oriented API.

No one uses Glide today really, but that doesn't mean it wasn't significant. It was sort of the thing that kicked off even having a graphics API for gaming.

I see Mantle in sort of the same light. Even if it doesn't see a lot of game support now, it has pushed the entire conversation in that direction, and in that regard it's significant.

I don't see Mantle the same way. Things were really fragmented and stuck back then. We needed to get over this hurdle and that sort of game everything a little push.

With Mantle the discussion was already on the table and DX12 and OpenGL were already on the way. The things that are keeping us stuck in DX9 land aren't the same reasons Mantle is cool (which I think it is). I do think it contributed to and got discussions going early, but that discussion was going to happen with or without Mantle.

My download was 13.x GB too. I'm at 72% so not too much longer. I left it running while I worked. It made my WebEx a little laggy, but I blamed the government. No one questions when you blame the government. :D

The Secret World has some excellent questing. I would call them storylines really more than I would questing.

My big surprise is that ESO has much more story driven interesting questing than I would have thought. It's nowhere near as deep and clever as TSW, but it is very well written, engaging, and immersive. ESO quests feel like epic hero tales rather than task checklists and that is nice.

Neverwinter and STO have some really good quest arcs too. There are also some great foundry missions  which are like playing classic D&D mini adventure modules.

Originally posted by rodingo
Originally posted by Torval
Dang I wish they were turning on the store tomorrow too. I want to change my mount skin. Everyone has the Imperial horse. I want to do something different.

Something tells me that on March 17th, if you are still using a horse as a mount as opposed to a tiger or guar, then you WILL be one of the few doing something different.

Hahaha, you're probably spot on the money there. I won't lie. I'll be one of them. Although what mount(s) I purchase is still up in the air. I like a good horse with interesting tack or armour as much as a giant kitty cat. It just depends on the overall appearance and whether it fits my character. The white horse looks nice, but doesn't really fit my character.

People got thrown because it's not a limited multi-player online battle arena. It's an open world pvp mmo with worlds that have different pvp rulesets. Almost every character you create in an mmo is a carbon copy of the next one when you start. If you're just talking appearance then that has nothing to do with whether a game is a moba or an mmo, but whether the character customization sucks or is robust.

So to answer: Not a moba, verdict on depth of visual customization is still out.

edit: dang, Pepeq beat me to it. jinx

Firstly I don't think class warfare means what you think it does. There is no oppression of betterment or denial of essential needs. This is a leisure activity of truly epic first world proportions. You're not even being denied the ability to engage in leisure based on your socioeconomic background. So no, definitely not class warfare going on here.

There might be a good argument that excessively rewarding those who spend hundreds alienates those who spend more frugally (say in the $20 - $50 range). And that might be off putting and make those people feel like second class members, by comparison, in a way that takes the fun and excitement out of the game. I've seen Kickstarter reward tiers like that before and honestly it sapped my incentive to support the game with a lesser amount.

What I've noticed with most crowdfunded games is that in order for them to keep attracting players to the game and generating revenue, and this is true for all games not just mmos, they need to make new players feel like they're just as important and their dollars buy just as much. If you look at most games post launch you will see them offer good game play at a reasonable price. Rarely now will I support a crowdfunded game until I see it launch and what it offers the commoner. Usually they end up selling the game at a good price and all those little perks are incidental. Personally, I often wait until a Steam sale of 50% or better.

Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Dauntis

... or is it just a MOBA?

I mean if I am going to play an MMORPG I want to be able to make my own character not pick one of a line. I get that there will be skills to assign and what not, but it is nice to be able to have some look choices etc.

Do you guys use some secret bittervet madlibs webpage to come up with reasons you don't like games? This stuff gets weirder and weirder with each title that gets announced.

I'm pretty sure there is something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Pressman-Toy-4236-12-Scooby-Doo-Telling/dp/B00I2DXABS for MMORPG threads. I think Craig McGregor could probably create and sell a digital version of this just for mmorpg. :D

Seriously I'm not sure how one even gets moba out of anything anyone has seen on this game or why it must meet some preconceived notion of what an mmorpg is supposed to be in order for it to be an interesting game. So what if it's not a mmorpg in the strictest and most classically rote sense of the word? What then? What happens next?

Originally posted by jesteralways
Originally posted by Torval

I'm curious why you consider Neverwinter the F2P with the most restrictions. You can play more of the game without feeling gimped or having an ala carte experience with Neverwinter than almost any other F2P except maybe Tera. I get that the cash shop has some expensive stuff and the lockbox is contentious, but you can play the game on the same or less budget as a subscription game. You can buy combo packs for $20 - $60 from the website and never really have to buy stuff from the cash shop. My point being you can play the game for as little or as much as you want.

Of all the F2P games I would say ArcheAge is absolutely the worst payment model solely for the horrible Facebook style stamina system. Age of Conan is in a tie with SW:TOR for the second. On the upshot TOR unlocks really nicely if you subscribe and has excellent game play. While TOR is a great game feeling the need to subscribe to actually enjoy it puts it in the "bad f2p" model category for me. If it were B2P like GW2 or ESO then it would be one of the best payment systems and games around.

Overall I would say Tera has the best payment system with Neverwinter and Star Trek Online tied for second. The rest: LotRO, EQ2, Rift, Defiance, Firefall, Marvel Heroes, Aura Kingdom, Aion, Eldevin, and the like are all about the same. They have some boons and banes. LotRO probably shines above the rest in that when you buy the content pack you own it and you can earn Turbine Points. It would get a much higher rating from me if they didn't try and monetize absolutely everything in the game.

GW2 shouldn't be on the list any more than WoW, TSW, or ESO. People seemed to get confused that cash shop doesn't equal F2P especially now. B2P means just that. You buy the game and DLC/xpacs. F2P is about being able to play the game without an entry fee or subscription. Both of them being subscription optional/free does give them a strong similarity, but they're not exactly the same. If I want to play EQ2 I can without any up front cost other than the bandwidth and time. If want to play GW2 I have to pay $50 or whatever the current sale price is.

Finally, "worse" is really subjective. Phry's opinion about Neverwinter supports that. I think Neverwinter is a really good one. He thinks it's horrible. What payment model works for some doesn't work for others. If you had been a little more encompassing and just asked what game has the worst payment model period I would have said WoW. It still is by a huge stretch the worst deal of most any game I can think of, but of course we're just taking pot shots at F2P today, never the precious gorilla.

Never played Rift, have you? if you have you would not come out here and say Rift is similar to others in the category. All content in RIft is free to everyone, of course there are some soul there are not available for free and some items that can only be gotten either by purchasing expansion or doing end game content to unlock reputation vendor. Rift by far has the best f2p model. 

And lotro and swtor have the same f2p model except that swtor charges for quickbar and lotro doesn't and lotro has a lifetime option.

And about AA, just because you can't accept a system doesn't mean it is a "horrible f2p model". To some people bashing a hammer against an anvil for days while being afk seems good gameplay while to others that seems nonsense, I'm not going to write anything more than that. 

Like I said what is best and worst is very subjective and highly dependent on how people like to pay and play.

I've played Rift since Beta 3. I'm very aware of what they sold previously and how their payment model has shifted. Rift has unlocks and restrictions much like the others on that list. It used to be much more similar to Tera in its delivery, but now not so much.

LotRO and TOR are not alike at all. LotRO no longer offers the lifetime option. Each game has its restrictions but TOR much more so unless you subscribe and then it opens fully opens up. TOR has restrictions on crafting, quest rewards, and storage, among others, that only unlock with the subscription. That is all not mentioning the fact that LotRO offers a way to earn game cash while playing. They have some similarities, but far more differences compared to other games with F2P payment models. The primary difference being how much a non-subscriber is restricted in a way that is only unlocked through the subscription which is why I compared it to AoC.

My criticism of ArcheAge has nothing to do with an ability to accept something. It has to do with my opinion that heavy stamina systems are a crude and simplistic way to limit and balance game play. There are much more interesting and deeper ways to resources and player production / consumption than using an energy bar to limit that game activity. On top of the fact that once again a player must subscribe to be able to access core game mechanics, those that don't are severely gimped by comparison, the entire game system is there to drive you to the cash shop and that is easily felt playing the game. Those factors earn it the worst F2P model in my opinion. Any game marketing itself as F2P while exclusively locking key game systems behind a subscription gets a huge mark against it with regards to reviewing that payment system.

You may not agree and that is fine, but I did think through and have reasons behind my opinions and evaluations of the payment systems.

I gladly pay a sub for a lot of games when I'm actively playing and focusing on them. I'm paying a sub in ESO right now. I just got done paying a 3 month sub for LotRO. I usually buy 3 months worth of sub time for an mmo I'm primarily focused on.

I don't generally pay a sub for a game that requires it just for access. I just don't see a value in that and I don't like being locked out of a game I've spent money on unless i pony up more money. With games that offer option subs I can do that, focus on the game, and still play after my sub expires if I feel like it which I do a lot.

I don't have a golden list of features. Each game has to be fun for what it offers and does well with. Not every game needs to be a pinnacle experience for me. I just have to enjoy what they offer while I feel like playing it.

Originally posted by Velocinox
Originally posted by Po_gg

This. I'm not even sure it has a place on the list, it's like nominating a zombie for a "stinkiest feet" contest :) AA restrict you from most of the gameplay before the whole 'payment model' question comes into play at all...

Almost agree with this too (I voted on TOR), AoC is a bit better since there most of the game is available, only the endgame grind is sub-only (Khitai and the AA system, neither is needed for the fun - imo, of course ) In TOR the sub-only parts are all around you, and even those things you can uplift are pretty harsh restrictons - in AoC it's only the inventory space.

But yep, if the question is about restriction*  (and not p2w or gambling boxes like the poster mentioned above with Neverwinter) then it's TOR, and closely behind that AoC.

*edit: f2p restrictions as the thread title says

Agree.

I loathe Tera but yep, the model is nice. I'd put STO before Neverwinter, because of the lifer sub option, that's pretty cool. LotRO shines indeed, one of my favourite models, you can work with it as you wish, it's very flexible. If only the Turbine greed would be a bit smaller :)

Overall, great post Torval. What happened with the -dr suffix?

I mostly agree with you two, except for Neverwinter. I think the lifetime option sets the two apart by a gulf of accessibility. For what is basically the drow pack, and one other major pack in Neverwinter, you can have access to most of the STO game AND get a monthly cash shop income on top of whatever else you do in-game.

Granted, had STO released as F2P the lifetime value would be less as you wouldn't have had the all inclusive subscription months, but i still think there should be room in the Neverwinter business model for a pay once and have much of the systems that require AD be made gold based (or just flat out free, but that's unlikely.)

I agree that the lifetime in STO is a great advantage to the dedicated player and I think it was too bad Neverwinter didn't offer that. I think they know that the hardcore D&D player will fork over massive bucks for microtransactions and edition upgrades. We've been poked that way since the beginning with each book, module, magazine, and miniature costing a pretty penny. When that gets wrung out then they do a version upgrade.

STO is a better game in some ways. The DOff system in STO is a lot cooler and more fun than the crafting system in Neverwinter. The build complexity of ships, character, and crew (both shipboard and landing party) make STO a deeper game in my opinion. Neverwinter has a more interesting Foundry and the combat is more fun and the game feels more adventurous though.

What I like about both those games as it relates to payment model is that I can play so much of the game without paying and not feeling like I didn't. Yes, the cash shops are pricey, but they don't feel necessary to me. This is why I'm liking B2P with a cash shop more than F2P. It has a small barrier to entry that discourages trolls. They seem to offer a game already unlocked and the cash shop feels more like an option than a necessity. GW2 and TSW both feel like this to me. ESO seems like it's on that path. I would like to see more new games go this direction. I wish LotRO would evolve this way with slighly more expensive xpacs that have more stuff already included and unlocked for the price.

Po_gg: I dunno why I dropped it. I wanted to simplify I guess. The old name is one I got from a name site that references ancient Nordic and roughly translates to Thor's ruler or leader. I suppose I felt like a change.

I'm going to try them all and play several. You can switch between them and level them at the same time. It's a cool system I've seen in other games. It was a little crude in those other games, but they are older and not quite as high budget.
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by TheConservativeGamer
Umm why is GW2 on the list its a B2P game it doesn't have any F2P restrictions?

perhaps they should have said which game has the worst cash shop, i don't think its GW2 anyway, Neverwinter etc, have that more than covered imo.

I'm curious why you consider Neverwinter the F2P with the most restrictions. You can play more of the game without feeling gimped or having an ala carte experience with Neverwinter than almost any other F2P except maybe Tera. I get that the cash shop has some expensive stuff and the lockbox is contentious, but you can play the game on the same or less budget as a subscription game. You can buy combo packs for $20 - $60 from the website and never really have to buy stuff from the cash shop. My point being you can play the game for as little or as much as you want.

Of all the F2P games I would say ArcheAge is absolutely the worst payment model solely for the horrible Facebook style stamina system. Age of Conan is in a tie with SW:TOR for the second. On the upshot TOR unlocks really nicely if you subscribe and has excellent game play. While TOR is a great game feeling the need to subscribe to actually enjoy it puts it in the "bad f2p" model category for me. If it were B2P like GW2 or ESO then it would be one of the best payment systems and games around.

Overall I would say Tera has the best payment system with Neverwinter and Star Trek Online tied for second. The rest: LotRO, EQ2, Rift, Defiance, Firefall, Marvel Heroes, Aura Kingdom, Aion, Eldevin, and the like are all about the same. They have some boons and banes. LotRO probably shines above the rest in that when you buy the content pack you own it and you can earn Turbine Points. It would get a much higher rating from me if they didn't try and monetize absolutely everything in the game.

GW2 shouldn't be on the list any more than WoW, TSW, or ESO. People seemed to get confused that cash shop doesn't equal F2P especially now. B2P means just that. You buy the game and DLC/xpacs. F2P is about being able to play the game without an entry fee or subscription. Both of them being subscription optional/free does give them a strong similarity, but they're not exactly the same. If I want to play EQ2 I can without any up front cost other than the bandwidth and time. If want to play GW2 I have to pay $50 or whatever the current sale price is.

Finally, "worse" is really subjective. Phry's opinion about Neverwinter supports that. I think Neverwinter is a really good one. He thinks it's horrible. What payment model works for some doesn't work for others. If you had been a little more encompassing and just asked what game has the worst payment model period I would have said WoW. It still is by a huge stretch the worst deal of most any game I can think of, but of course we're just taking pot shots at F2P today, never the precious gorilla.

Originally posted by SpottyGekko
Originally posted by nbtscan
I wonder if they failed to see that a side effect of this could be cheaper gold prices from third party sources, since their gold prices could be cheaper than the conversion rate for a subscription or a token.  This might blow up in WoW's face.

Undoubtedly.

The 3rd party goldsellers will always undercut the "official" exchange rate, and this change will make it even more tempting to buy "cheap WoW golds" and exchange those for game-time tokens.

I don't think Blizzard cares that much. People will buy the tokens and sell them on the AH. The main concern is that people buy the tokens in the cash shop generating extra revenue. If someone buys gold from a seller and then purchases a token Blizz still makes the money. Blizz is selling tokens, not gold.

Dang I wish they were turning on the store tomorrow too. I want to change my mount skin. Everyone has the Imperial horse. I want to do something different.
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