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All Posts by Torvaldr

All Posts by Torvaldr

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Originally posted by dandurin
Originally posted by Torvaldr

Being this game is for the mature thinking crowd this really shouldn't be a tough one to figure out. The short answer to your question is: NO, you can't delay and choose when you want your subscription to start. ....

Or you could actually do the research.  :D

In fact they stated in the live stream that free Patron does not start until you log in for the first time.

Yes, research on a live stream. Let's research live. streams. 

There are discussions on the forums about what triggered activating your account login. If you've logged into the game account then it activates even in prelaunch, then it activates on launch day. If it's not supposed to work that way then send in a support ticket. Trion is pretty good about support problems even if there was a mistake (i.e. he didn't mean to activate the account).

Originally posted by DMKano

I am not surprised one bit - actually it's surprising that SoE didn't force him out quicker after the Landmark Awards fans fiasco where he was communicating off-colored remarks about Landmark's players creations.

It was a sad and unprofessional display - he needed to go.

You cannot let your *brand manager* talk crap about players publicly, period.

Just my 2c.

That was what, four months ago? What company waits four whole months before telling someone to resign or get fired? That doesn't seem very likely. Has anyone even been talking about that in the last couple of months? Even if what you say is true then why aren't the rest of the people on that list resigning? It's an interesting theory, but not that plausible. It's just too far out there.


Originally posted by WillowFuxxy
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by WillowFuxxy
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by WillowFuxxy

here is the problem I am having with your comment.

I dont see what I highlight in yellow actually happening.

I dont see people jumping on forums complaining about sandbox features. I do see people complaining about themepark features but not sandbox ones.

More over, who gets disapointed about being able to build a house but not required to do so...that is silly

You kind of have to approach the above from a certain perspective. I highly doubt it's those who enjoy themepark features jumping on forums bemoaning those features, the people who are going to gravitate toward such topics are those who dislike them, or want something else. The other part of said perspective is that, those who like themepark features have little to complain about, so they're less likely to strike out at the other option, it's not in the way of their preference.

HOWEVER...the exact inverse is not true?

someone is claiming that people complain about sandbox features and I havent seen any such complaints 

I think he's referring to feedback on specific games or game types FFAPVP as an example... His point was about people getting the wrong idea about games based on feature lists and interpretations of them. Who in turn rail against said mechanics after discovering them or discovering how they effect the feature they picked a game up for.

In all fairness FFA is the ONLY sandbox feature I have ever heard anyone mention.

which is why that statement seemed really odd to me.

What is he said is the core of my point. I've heard people complain about lack of direction and getting stuck in sandbox games fairly often.

Originally posted by WillowFuxxy

here is the problem I am having with your comment.

I dont see what I highlight in yellow actually happening.

I dont see people jumping on forums complaining about sandbox features. I do see people complaining about themepark features but not sandbox ones.

More over, who gets disapointed about being able to build a house but not required to do so...that is silly

Sure, it happens all the time with people who try a sandbox game, or one that is billed as such, and then come away dissatisfied with the experience.

People complain about features touted as sandbox, and how they affect the game, all the time. How about FFA pvp? That is one of the primary features of many sandbox games that gets brought up. Some guy says, I went into this game to do activity "X" but I kept getting ganked, this sucks and why can't I just... blah blah blah. Or some guy is building something and someone else wrecks it because they can. Or how about, "I wanted to build and do this stuff, but I don't have any of the skills, the game doesn't tell me how to get skills. I keep getting killed because I don't have the skills and I don't know what to do." Or how about, "I got into the game and I had nothing to do and didn't know where to go. The game is boring without stuff to do."

I know it was a long post, but re-read what I wrote. I didn't say they got disappointed because they could build a house, but didn't have to do so. I said they got disappointed because they heard about house building, imagined what it would be, and when they got into the game it was entirely not the experience they expected, or realized they didn't really want what they think they did. They did realized people could gank them, or they didn't realize crafting items and housing came with item wear and that they would need to keep repairing or generating those items, or that they would have to compete for housing resources, or any number of other things. Come to find out what they really wanted was just a virtual space to decorate in peace.

They thought they wanted something that either they didn't want or they didn't realize all the other things that came with the feature or game. People say they want one thing, but they really want another. It happens a lot in games. Both Scott Hartsman and Raph Koster have said as much during Q&As and posts on these forums.


Originally posted by Takoo
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by DamonVile
It happened right about the time every gamer decided they had to play mmos. Even if they hate the idea of what an mmo should be.

On top of that, what it means to play games online and what multi-player encompasses is evolving faster than traditional descriptions can handle.

The games have not really evolved much at all. The only thing a few of these Games have done is move the in game towns from private in game side to public side. Pretty much a fancy lobby with shops and quests.. They are the same type of game they were years ago just with a fancy lobby

Of course gaming has evolved. Not that long ago multi-player meant taking your rig over to another location and hooking up some sort of LAN config. Now most all mulit-player has an internet based option to connect, often with hosted servers or connection services.

There is multi-player gaming through Facebook and other social networks. There is mobile device gaming which is similar to the social networking platform in style. Both are very recent additions to the multi-player paradigm.

There are MOBAs which took a portion of MMO pvp and offered that as a standalone game experience. That is quite an evolution.

Many games that would historically have been single player now offer some sort of internet based mulit or coop play. Path of Exile, Torchlight 2, Borderlands 2, Planet Explorers, Trine 2, and Civ V are all examples of games or game types that at their earliest iteration were single player with maybe a LAN coop mode. Now they all offer multi-player right out of the box. More games do that now than in the past. In the past those games, like Neverwinter Nights, were the exception.

Gaming and how it relates to online play has evolved dramatically. You're only looking at a few foundational game design concepts and drawing the conclusion that there has been no evolution, but that is short-sighted at best. It takes quite a different design outlook to even consider multi-player. The programming takes on an entirely new dimension.

In addition to all that the entire concepts of server structure has evolved from multiple servers to single-server tech. The same is true with what multi-player means. There are so many variable options. How many players connect to one game? Is it lobby based? Will the world be persistent? How will players connect to the people they want to game with?

While MMO players seem to care about carefully crafted genre definitions the wider gamer audience at large might not care. MMO to them might just mean a large player pool to game with.

Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by WillowFuxxy
Originally posted by Distopia

I really don't think it's hard to understand why companies find the sandbox to be less desirable on the business front. A themepark is all about content, stories and combat. These things are easily controlled. Sandboxes are about player to player relations. Something far less easy to control. Instead of relying on writing, design skill, and programming, you rely on players to create the incentive to log on or off. Where would you your millions on being a safer bet?

the position being argued here by others (if I understand it correctly) is that the masses really do not like Sandboxes they just are not aware that they dont like Sandboxes. They THINK they do which is why AAAs use the terms but in reality they find it boring.

Now I personally think that is hogwash...but at least its nice to get a position that sounds somewhat coherent for a change

I'd agree that's not really a strong argument. It's making assumptions based on likes or dislikes, which are usually guided by personal feelings on the topic. Many people really don't know what they like until they get it in a package that fits them.

This is sort of how I see it:

People get sold a slogan or some propaganda and they buy into it without thinking. They know what themeparks are, having played several, and maybe they want a change of pace. The sandbox word gets thrown around various threads and articles as something better or that solves all the woes of the themepark without a real explanation of what that all means. They hear what they want and glom onto sandbox (and all of its derivatives - sandpark, sandbox-style, etc) and then invent their own expectation based on what they've heard. When they get there the reality doesn't mesh with the fantasy - nerd rage ensues.

I think that is one reason why there is often a backlash or disappointment in the various sandbox oriented offerings. For example, someone hears about resource gathering, crafting, and building. They get a picture in their mind of what they think that means based on their interpretation of the feature. They get into the game and find out what PK means, what resource destruction and management mean, self-direction, self-direction character progression, and all sorts of other realities they may not have considered. The exact details vary from person to person and game to game, but the pattern, I believe, is similar. System shock ensues and they call the game crap.

I don't think Indie games do sandbox better or make better games than their high budget corporate counterparts could - that is subjective anyway. It is that the Indie games are doing it at all and the big budget companies aren't. There often isn't a better high budget counterpart because that isn't where the money is. Big studios could make games with better graphics, animations, coding, and systems, but since the money isn't really there, they don't. Those sandbox features Indies offer have a limited appeal. The few small exceptions of big developer games we have recently, Trove and Landmark, aren't as gritty and and hardcore in the sandbox as some of their Indie cousins. They can't be and still appeal to enough people to make money.

Originally posted by Tyggs
Hmm.... Signs point to something happened which left him extremely unhappy with SOE.

Yeah, that makes sense. I'm a little morbidly curious what that is.

Sometimes in a job, especially a high profile position, people get put under pressure or have to take some heat and it makes one question whether it's worth it. Am I getting paid enough for what they're asking? Can I ever get paid enough for what they're asking? Is there a personal development that frustrates me or creates toxicity? If it's not worth all that, then it's time to move on. It takes a bit of courage to do that. Staying in the status quo even when it is unpleasant is easier than taking the uncertain step out.

That is rather cryptic.
You can watch some of Log Horizon on CrunchyRoll: Log Horizon. I'm not sure how many episodes there are, but CR has 25.

Being this game is for the mature thinking crowd this really shouldn't be a tough one to figure out. The short answer to your question is: NO, you can't delay and choose when you want your subscription to start. Patron status starts immediately upon game launch (I didn't look to see if early access counted or not). I don't think there has every been a game where you buy (or pre-order) a subscription and then get to delay it to start when you want.

Try contacting them. Maybe they'll make an exception for you. 

Originally posted by DamonVile
It happened right about the time every gamer decided they had to play mmos. Even if they hate the idea of what an mmo should be.

On top of that, what it means to play games online and what multi-player encompasses is evolving faster than traditional descriptions can handle.

Originally posted by SpottyGekko
Originally posted by Torvaldr

I just logged on and made a character (not patron) on Naima and played for the last hour or so. I got my horse, did some quests, and then logged off. I had no queue what-so-ever.

They made some improvements, a bit. No LP costs for quest rewards, but you still have to pay a labor cost to identify loot drops and money bags. That's still pretty lame, but it is what it is I guess.

You had no queue at 11:00am PDT on a Wednesday morning outside of school holidays ? 

There were almost no queues on any EU servers at 11:00am this morning either. I suggest you check back on Naima during US primetime...

That hasn't been the loud complaint has it, that prime time has queues. I looked at the timestamp people were posting and thought I would check it out. Rift had insane queues and I was actually pretty ready to take a couple pot shots at Trion because well, they're fair game imo. People said Glyph wouldn't work, games wouldn't update, and they couldn't get into AA with 3k+ queues. I'm just reporting my experience, not commenting on the overall quality of the login system.

I did log back in a little bit ago and the worlds all report being queued but I still slipped in. Maybe Hartsman likes me and flagged my account as VIP (just kidding he doesn't know me) or maybe I slipped back in under the relogging timer.

I can say the game was a bit laggy (lots of skill and combat lag) and that competition for quest progress was sort of intense and not very fun as a result. I didn't get booted or d/c though. The lame gold farmer spam was ludicrous. On top of that, the loot drops for LP cost made me grimace a bit, so it wasn't all kisses and roses.

I'll try again later like you suggest, but I'm not that interested in playing heavily. I like the PVE just like I did in Aion. So if there is a huge queue then I'll probably log back to LotRO or Project Gorgon rather than waste my time. But I will report if the queue is idiotic.

I just logged on and made a character (not patron) on Naima and played for the last hour or so. I got my horse, did some quests, and then logged off. I had no queue what-so-ever.

They made some improvements, a bit. No LP costs for quest rewards, but you still have to pay a labor cost to identify loot drops and money bags. That's still pretty lame, but it is what it is I guess.

I must have amazing launch fortune. I get queues sometimes, like when Rift launched, but they're never that bad. I just logged into AA, selected a server (only 2 of them were flagged with queues so I chose one without), made a character, logged in and played up until I got my horse - about an hour.
Originally posted by Sovrath

wow, I've never heard of this. This sounds similar to what I'm looking for!

Can anyone tell me how this compares to Vanguard? As far as game play/world not bugs.

I think of Vanguard as a slightly more open EQ2 with a few additional systems. This game is a lot more like Asheron's Call. It's much more open and free form. There are quests in that an NPC has a dilemma and wants your help, but they're not really chains that open up leading to other quests.

In some ways it's a bit like Ryzom in that you enter the world and where you go from there is really your call. You do start out in a "tutorial" dungeon. Even then it's not a hand-holder tutorial either. More it is there to confine you to a space to limit the amount of danger and trouble you can get yourself into before unleashing the rest of the world on you. By the time you exit the tutorial you'll have some practice at combat, how to make friends with an NPC, the dangers of a boss, and how to solve a puzzle. The thing is it doesn't lead you through those things, it just presents them and gives you a safer place to figure it all out. Some people blaze through that in a really short time, others spend a couple days in there.

Originally posted by Seelinnikoi
Improved WoW pet system+better garrison... I like it! :)

More like an improved STO Duty Officer system, but then WoW created everything right? 

Originally posted by Peer_Gynt
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by syriinx
Originally posted by tachgb
Humans like a good old moan about anything and ofcourse, everyones forgotten their immediate Alpha/Beta/Early Access now haven't they?

yes, all bow down to XL for allowing us to pay to be guinea pigs

WHat do founders expect? The big fee was there because they knew people would pay it if it meant they could play. That's all it boiled down to. There was no other reason to pay for it.. I'd think everyone knew they'd offer this kind of thing at launch... Anyone who knew how F2P actually works anyway.

I wonder how long before we start to see health warnings on MMOs like we do on cigarettes.

"Warning, medical research has shown these kinds of games and their merchandising tactics to be dangerous to gullible morons. These games have been known to cause hysteria and financial insolvency in those with weak minds and impulse control issues."

Actually the warning would be more like, "Spending disposable entertainment income does not make you a special snowflake with entitlements. Please grow up."

Seriously, how would anyone not see this repackaging happening? Why would they even expect them not to? It's a game with a cash shop. They sell stuff in it. Not only that but it's good for the player because bundles cost less than buying the items separately. The complaints about this are ridiculous.

The game is really fun for me. The people that are enjoying it are fun to game with too. Not only that but the players are helpful without giving you a walkthrough with spoilers in chat.

The thing I probably love most about the game, and it's hard because there are a few, is that everything you do is an experience that contributes to shaping your character. Since no two characters have exactly the same experiences it's more likely you will have differences between different characters.

Another thing I love is that there is a lot of combat, but not everything is combat related. There are non-combat things to do. Even the combat things to do (like a quest that leads into a combat area or is a kill type of quest) has more to it than just combat. I also love the reward system and how puzzles work.

Please try the game and consider contributing to the kickstarter if you like it. The kickstarter campaign is pretty far behind so it needs some serious love. They're not asking for an insane funding goal either, just $100K which is small compared to most MMOs campaigns.

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

Originally posted by Thane
Originally posted by AlBQuirky
Originally posted by Bulldoze
Best thing about steam and similar applications is that they keep all of my games under that particular umbrella patched and up-to-date. Nothing worse than remembering that game you loved a year ago and booting it up to install 12 months worth of content and bug fixes.

Yet that is exactly what Steam does. Don't play a game for a year. Try booting it up and see what Steam wants to do. Updates.


actually WHAT steam does is keep your games uptodate with constant updates, no matter if you play em or not.

as long the game is actually installed on steam, steam will load updates when they are available, not when you are gonna play (unless you changed that option in the settings)

Are you sure? I am certainly not sure :)

It just seems that in order to get an update to the client side game directory, a download needs to occur. Or maybe I am misunderstanding what you're saying?

Not every single game auto-updates. Many mmos that have their own platforms don't auto-update, some do though. LotRO, EQ2, Neverwinter, STO, Rift, and Aura Kingdom do not. Firefall and Marvel Heroes do. All of my other single player and multi-player games auto-update as well. In addition to that they also automatically install my DLC.

Like I said before, you can save those Steam folders after patches to get a patched game state that you don't have to download updates for. That is true even for games that require manual updates. Save and archive the game folder and you have a saved and patched game. No need for download on reinstall.

Originally posted by BailoPan15

Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by BailoPan15

You do realize the simple fact that Steam is not publishing those games on their platform from the kindness of their hearts right? Why do you think EA Games and Ubisoft and others have opted out of well known platform with good infrastructure and instead opted out for their own in which they only sell their games (none others, so no, they are not emulating steam). 

Eventually this other platform becomes cheaper. 

Also Origin is a lot better than Steam in terms of application efficiency. Qt Framework power baby. 

Both EA and Ubisoft sell games on Steam. They don't sell every title on Steam, but they do have a decent selection. Trion, SoE, Turbine, SquareEnix, and PWE all make their main titles available on Steam. They can and do offer their games through multiple platforms.

Only older titles my friend. Only older titles. Which I suppose are by contract non-removable. 

@Lawlmonster Before Origin there was only Steam. Since Origin many people went there. IMO its the better product. Sure there are no summer sales and whatever sales, but if you buy the latest and brightest AAA titles out there, those sales are not really for you because they sell old single player games (with very limitted multiplayer ones) . Also about the ease of use ... I've never had issues getting my money to Origin in exchange for a good game. Payments are trivial and are almost all the same across the internet. Step 1. You put down your CC number, Step 2. Wait for confirmation, Step 3. Get the product. 

You didn't say older titles before and I did say they don't sell all titles. EA doesn't sell their latest titles through Steam. Ubisoft does, so you were wrong there as well. Exclusively using Origin is fine if you only play EA games and you're going to purchase new titles immediately. If you play titles from other publishers then Steam is a more robust platform.

Originally posted by someforumguy

The only thing I care about is how this will affect Minecraft modding on the PC.

I don't care about the vanilla minecraft experience. Vanilla pales next to forge mods for minecraft on the PC. So I really hope that Microsoft won't lock down modding for minecraft just to start pumping out lame dlc.

As for Notch. this letter is about him leaving Mojang, not about selling his major interest in the company. So in that light , the last sentence makes perfectly sense. He didn't have to leave Mojang to make the deal with Microsoft happen.

There is always minetest.

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