Originally posted by Comaf

Cash shop of course.  This usually means poor community and paying to compete in pvp while bots advertise leveling and gold non-stop.

 

However, that being said, let me ask this:  will the cash shop offer for (a) potions and xp packs for leveling (b) offer items for pvp superiority?

 

Thank you.

 

You've just got it all figured out, don't you? Smug assumptions, and totally off base btw. Cash shop... um.. no? Or at least, when I see the words "cash shop" I think of a place on the game's website where you can buy items relating to the game, either items you use directly while gaming or vanity items. There are neither associated with this game. The only thing you buy with cash is in-game cash. Poor community? Not at all, in fact for the most part mature, helpful and friendly, I would certainly take it any day over something like the WoW community (don't get me wrong, I love WoW, but the community in general is the pits). Bots advertising leveling and gold non-stop, funny, never seen that in the 5 years I've played. Can't see it happening at all with the way the game works anyway.

There are no potions or xp packs in the game. PvP gear is available the same way everything else is. Buy it at the auction or from a player in an in-game trade. Again, there is no "cash shop" in the way you imply.

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Loktofeit

 

My favorite part is "There really hasn't been a situation like this before in Video Game History where a gamer has crossed over to become a developer..." other than in almost every major MMO since Ultima Online.

Well, when you cut out half the complete sentence, as you did here, of course it sounds inaccurate.

The relevant bit that he's referring to is described in the part you omitted...

"...and because of the sensitivity of a Multi-Billion dollar Virtual goods Economy, must stop being a gamer."

There is no other known example of someone having to cease being a gamer because they crossed over into becoming a developer. That's what he's referring to.

What you did there is a textbook example of cherry-picking.

 The true facts of the matter is this. All other devs/MA/PP employees are not required to "stop being a gamer", though they are required to play in such a way as to not effect the economy in a significant manner. This includes playing on an "official" avatar which is monitored by MA, and being unable to withdraw ped to money. I would also mention that there have been previous and very public examples of players *of this game* that have been hired on by MA or FPC (the first and original planet partner) and have gone through publicly saying their goodbyes on their personal avatar before they move onto their official avatar. Skam is probably the most famous of these cases. I think it's pretty safe to say, as much as ND want to make this into another "special snowflake first time ever done" scenarios, it couldn't be further from the truth. ND is just upset that he's not supposed to be double-dipping.

We have, in fact, been told on forums of the abilities of these official avatars, and to be honest, the life of that particular avatar doesn't seem so bad at all. On top of that, rumor has it that some of the leading/famous avatars in game are actually secretly official avatars that cannot withdraw. No names have been mentioned that I have seen, but it was said that you would be amazed if you knew who was who. I think they would take issue with the "must stop being a gamer" part, as that is blatantly untrue. They just play for the game, vs playing for the money. Read that last sentance I wrote, and you might find something about why ND is upset, despite how much he talks about his love of the game.

Edited just to add this, ND knew full well the rules in the PP agreement when he SIGNED them. To think otherwise is to agree that he is stupid beyond belief for signing something of such importance to him without reading/understanding it. Add this to the above mentioned common knowledge of people who had to move to official avatars and you wil see why so many people scoff at his excuses... as that is all they are.

Originally posted by Luv_bug

Re Treephrog

So according to you they "never" had a license. Yet it was revoked. Can you "revoke" a license that was never given? Even if the in game banks were virtual pawn shops, pawn shops are a microfinancing instrument, collateralized lending at interest authorized by the government, banking activity, the only difference is they are not beholden to a central bank. The idea they didn't have the money to start a bank is quite suspect as well. You can start a bank in some countries for less than $30k(even less) and partake in the fractional reserve system, which I'm sure, unless it appears in Mindark's or Blizzard's literature, you have little to no comprehension of, but the reserve requirements are extremely low to literally create capital, and the reserve dollars would be coming from the players. Seems strange, like they just didn't want inspectors up in their beeswax all the time, which is understandable, but hey, whatever.

I'm also glad after reiterating time and again "I don't play" it is finally "obvious" to you. I find it interesting THAT offends you more than my insinuations you have no friends.

...and re my possible venture into the world of piracy, there's a couple rules of an effective pirate in game apparently. 1) Roll in packs and 2) Roll naked. I know the very thought has got you hot and bothered ,Tree, ("I'm always looking for more juicy targets ;).  I'd love to loot (riiight) you over and over, all night long.") but remember, like everything else in your life, they're just pixels. I've heard similar stories of naked gankers in AoC actually. Got that "lord of the flies" thing goin' there hehe.

Ok so I missed the word "usable" in my sentance, as in they never had a *usable* banking license (since they couldn't finance a bank that would use it it ends up just being some preliminary legal work on a project that didn't work out). It means the same either way, just a technicality that you attacked that comes off similar to an ad hominem attack when you don't have anything valid to say. Let me remind you that according to you.. and I quote "the game has been a registed bank for almost 2 1/2 years". I really don't think you have room to argue on a technicality like that. I know I'd be embarrassed if I said something that was that wrong. The in game banks still have nothing to do with it either way, so unsure why you keep bringing them up like they actually have anything to do with it.

The fractional reserve system is a common banking method, where only a small portion of the total deposits stays on reserve at the bank, while the rest is generally invested in things such as stocks and bonds... but I'm not here for talk about work so I'll stop there.

Again, it must be reading comprehension problems (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as otherise it would be that you are straight up trolling), but I did not say anything about you not having friends, I simply questioned the existance of this particular one since there were so many discrepancies about him. You are the one that started that so I dunno.. maybe you get that a lot for some reason? I find your insinuation that I have none.. silly at best, but realistically just basic troll 101 material. Pretty boring, and frankly kind of pathetic.

Yep, sorry to burst your bubble, I don't cyber, just loot. Married for 27 years, I get all I want from my husband. Oh yeah, and you wanna watch out for packs that just might be family, say.. husband, wife, sons, daughters, since a team like that might be all in one room without the need for voice chat, pretty deadly. Then again you would never know that would you.

In response to another of your questions, no, the uber weapons don't do significantly more damage than less expensive weapons, there are much less expensive weapons that do much more damage. They are expensive due to their rarity, and a possible tiny percentage more economy for that class of weapon (though the eco is not true for all uber expensive weapons, it's mostly rarity). A weapon that does more damage typically uses more ammo per shot, though some do more damage via decay. Melee weapons use decay for all their damage.

Originally posted by Luv_bug

Again, I stated "according to my friend who plays". Is it really 100,000 PED(i.e.$10,000)? I dunno, Narfi could probably answer that, but he didn't seem to disagree with it when I wrote it.

 

Narfi also mentioned it was PED. Reading comprehension problems too? Though since your friend told you that as well (like most everything else), maybe he's not as knowledgable as you seem to think he is.

  

Mmhm...obviously you didn't get the memos...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7954629.stm

http://venturebeat.com/2009/03/18/mindarks-entropia-universe-now-has-a-legally-sanctioned-central-bank/

http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2009/03/18/2563295-online-game-gets-real-world-banking-license

http://massively.joystiq.com/2009/03/23/entropia-universe-to-have-real-world-bank-with-virtual-world-pre/

...I'm starting to feel that "why am I replying to someone so uniformed" thing you were prattling on about earlier tho...btw "EU also recently sold five commercial banking licenses for $320,000 each." http://www.loginnews.org/2011/02/making-bank-in-entropia-universe/

Actually it seems to be YOU who missed the memo as that fell through, the license was revoked, and the virtual banks were mostly a flop, nothing more than glorified pawn shops.. but then I guess just googling for press releases gives you a bit of a handicap over those of us actually active in the game (5 years playing) and knowledgable about the happenings therein...

http://www.entropiaforum.com/forum/ask-mindark/199724-status-future-mindbank.html

relevant quote from Kim, MA spokesperson...

"Im posting a response on behalf of CEO Jan Welter Timkrans

Yes, it is a continued priority to start up our own bank. The bank application was submitted to the Swedish financial authorities before the downturn in the world economy started. At this time we also had lined up the company for an IPO which would have provided for the financing of the bank. Because of the World recession the listing of the company was postponed and Mindark asked the financial authorities to revoke the license so that we may resubmit the application once funding has been secured. We are once again in the process of listing the company and we expect the listing to take place late 2012. When this has been done we resubmit the application to the financial authorities."

 

Let's continue...

Yes, by all means let us.

"Though I'm sure there is one". What are you 5 years old? An agenda? In a game I don't even play? If you consider finding out if the story is true so I can then consider starting to play and hunt the byways of space in search of a score, guilty as charged!!!! As long as its legal, I'd always be lookin' to "catch a sucka slippin'" hehe...and as far as being ill-informed, YOU'RE supposedly so knowledgeable you didn't even know the game has been a registed bank for almost 2 1/2 years apparently selling in-game banks to players for $100,000+? At least I have an excuse for not knowing the game inside and out...here it comes...get the t-shirt and the matching mug...I DON'T PLAY!

It's obvious you don't play since you know nothing of the game other than what google can tell you (note, google is not always your friend). It's a simple matter that nothing is lootable other than stackables, and nothing is lootable unless you're in lootable pvp, which is in space, or limited areas on planet nowhere near the landing zone. Thus if someone was attacked in space and made it to the planet as you seem convinced, no looting took place. Plain and simple. I've already corrected you, again, about the banking license being revoked so won't rehash that. If you want to come be a pirate, well be my guest. I'm always looking for more juicy targets ;).  I'd love to loot you over and over, all night long.

Originally posted by Wraithone

Well, thats pretty much SOP for raiding. But I'm not interested in a second job.  I've done 40 man raids (WAY too many times through MC) and at this point I'm not at all interested in raiding.  Doing the same raid over and over and over, in the faint hope of up grading my gear, so I can do the next raid over and over, isn't really appealing to me at this point.  But some people find it entertaining, to each their own . 

But given the broken dynamics of most end games, raiding is pretty much all that can be expected at this point in MMO's evolution. Hopefully that will change over time. 

Yep, pretty much. The thing with us though, we arn't always deadly serious with things, and it's the spontaneous, silly times that make the rest of the time worth it :). Though I really do enjoy raiding for the activity itself (I'm one that doesn't get bored trying to always improve my performance, which is a totally seperate thing from gear upgrades), and not looking at it strictly as what lootz can I haz. Upgrades are nice, but even more fun are nights when the warrior just can't beat the elevator boss no matter what, and then we get started on the drinking game whenever a certain person gets blown off Al'akir's platform lol. Finishing the raid kinda becomes secondary to a group of people just having fun and enjoying each other's company :).

Originally posted by jihashi

Originally posted by FarReach

Originally posted by jihashi

 If you want to know the real reason why those looking for a sandbox don't play this. Look towards where they are based out of, and what most of their Linden volunteers are. Europeans.

The rest of your post is invalid. Linden Labs is from California, I believe. Even if that wasn't where they started here is a list of their offices:

Our Office Locations:

Linden Lab has offices in:
Boston, MA, USA 
Davis, CA, USA
Reston, VA, USA
San Francisco, CA, USA
Seattle, WA, USA

Not a single one outside the US.  Taken from: http://lindenlab.com/employment

I have also played Second Life in the past and have had to call their customer support. I spoke to an American and I'm pretty sure he had a Californian accent. Even if he wasn't, there was not even a slight hint of a foreign accent in his voice at all.

At least do your research before you post something like this. I found their offices in 3 clicks. I typed in "Linden Labs" in Google, went to their page, then looked at their employment section at the top. It probably took less than 10 seconds. I'm sure in another 3 clicks I could find out where they started from Wikipedia, but I really don't care that much.

 Who are you to determine what parts of my post is valid or invalid? Frankly, I could care less what you think. Especially when you put into consideration that SL has a foreign address. IF you actually paid attention to the phone number. Those addresses mean nothing, as neither of those addresses are not even part of the main hub. Everytime I spoke with their "customer service rep" (yeah, I put it in quotes), it was a Brit. So if anyone's post here is invalid. It's yours.

 I will tell you straight up that saying SL is European based is invalid. What you gonna do about it other than be WRONG? Huh? Linden Lab is (and always has been) based in San Francisco, California, with a phone number to match. They did at one time have overseas offices in Brighton, Amsterdam and Singapore but they are closed.

BTW.. "Those addresses mean nothing, as neither of those addresses are not even part of the main hub." WTF does this even mean anyway? Double, triple negative? Got plenty of sleep in your English class I see.

Originally posted by Strafingmir

While yes there are security concerns, The CDS Relay does it's job and keeps copy botters out of shops that decide to put it in. 

No, it absolutely does not. While it may slow down some of the stupid people, the few clever ones keep right on keeping on... and it's the clever ones you should be worried about. CDS is a useless pile of garbage that a bunch of gullible people paid a griefer for.

Originally posted by shultz

Last time I tried it, in 2005, I was homeless, so I was searching 6 ways from sunday anywhere online to make money. (I sold on ebay, but it didn't earn me enough to get an apartment deposit.)

 Playing freely in EU, with no starting funds, you will incur more of an electricity bill than the income will cover.

So one day, I tried this game, known back then as Project Entropia. (Is MindArk still owning it?)

Yes. 

I found making money to be incredibly difficult back in those times. Also, I read that it takes 90 days for earned money to get to the player's account.

I'll be optimistic and ASSUME that it took 90 days because of thin bandwidth, and slower processing.

The assumption that the delay is due to technical constraints is false.

But now, thanks to Moore's Law, bandwidth should be thicker, and computers should be able to process far faster than ever before. So, how long do the funds take to reach a player's account now?

 

I couldn't partake in Martial Arts at the time. I wanted a profession that didn't require weapons because I didn't want to keep buying weapons for real cash. Are we able to have Martial Arts now?

There is no hunting profession that you don't use weapons. Since loot is awarded based on the amount you spend (the commonly agreed upon basic loot theory of 90% average return over time), if you spend nothing you get nothing in return. The closest thing to maritial arts is melee weapons.

 

Also, what new ways are there to make money in the game without spending it first?

There are no "new" ways. Just the same old ways, sweating and walking to pick up rocks and fruit.

Originally posted by Luv_bug

My friend's real busy, said he didn't even have time this week to get on. Hopefully he has everything by the end of this or next weekend.

 Yeah, I'll bet he is... busy trying to figure out how to make this story the tiniest bit believable to those of us who actually know the mechanics of the game. I'll start from the beginning where you said...

"Word is 6 lower level guys ambushed a super uber player in space forcing him to head for a planet, destroyed his ship, and when he emerged from the wreckage they merced him using vehicle guns, he got 5 of them using his pistol but the last one did him in, any more info on the heist anyone?".

Where to start, since I already see gaping holes in the story. Well, ok, so some pirates attacked a ship forcing it to a planet.. (which you did emphasize it happened on planet in another post, but then tried to spin it as happening in some mythical point between space and planet that doesn't exist, as when you appoach planet in a ship you then get sent directly to the designated landing zone which is NOT pvp enabled). If someone makes it to the planet after being attacked, they then get to laugh at the attackers. End of story.

You then get questioned by people in disbelief that people put that much money in game and respond with...

"Oh ya, there are $100,000+ armors in Entropia Universe according to my friend that plays it."

Which is incorrect in that while there are items and armor that approach or exceed that amount of PED, that is not dollars. It is also off the topic of the looting, since items such as that *cannot* be pvp looted. As was indicated in other posts, the only things that are lootable are stackables such as ammo, ores, enmats and other crafting materials like skins, oils and robot parts.

Not totally sure why I'm even replying to someone that is so ill informed as to say this...

"Entropia is actually a licensed bank too."

Since it is blatantly untrue as they never got the banking licence. I guess I just feel the need to emphasize how incorrect the posts are lest someone actually believe any of it.

Then we get to this jewel...

"Apparently  there is a game mechanic in which you can only access your resources through any "bank" but only on the planet on which they are stored. To do business on other planets you must transfer your stuff, hence the bountiful harvest. Would also explain why he might have been easier to focus fire on if he was encumbered as you say IF the materials from his ship automatically transfer to his avatar upon destruction. The source is my friend who is a friend of the bandits and has played EU on and off for a while. He said they're laying low on an asteroid and generally laughing their butts off. Apparently they also destroyed the guy's uber pistol too.Which would explain the last guys ability to survive long enough to take him out with his vehicles weapons. The guy was apparently carrying a $9,000 sniper rifle as well, which wouldn't have been an effective weapon 1v1 against a vehicle if it adhers to classic sniper rifle mechanics."

You access your resources through your storage terminal. It is true that you can only access them on the planet you are on, but they are located all over the planet. If he had that much stuff and was encumbered, it still doesn't make any difference since he would not have been in a lootable pvp area when the ship came down. The funniest part was where they destroyed his pistol, which is 100% impossible (and which you took back after being told that.. rather backpedaling after being caught out).

I'm not really sure what your agenda is with this story, though I'm sure there is one. I can say though, that you're about as informed about the game as anyone that is capable of googling for press releases.. which is to say, not very much.

I'm not saying there hasn't been some instance of someone getting blown up in space and looted for a large amount. That is possible. I'm just saying that the story you have told is NOT possible, and is an imaginative fabrication. The reason for such a fabrication is.. puzzling.

I do also wonder about the existance of your "friend", though if I had a friend who lied to me like that I'd have to consider that I might need to be a bit pickier about whom I choose as a friend in the future.

Originally posted by negacrowbar

Your guild raids at 10 pm every night. It takes til 11 pm for 20 of 25 people to get ready. Now you are short tanks and haelers, with a butt load of hunters. So, everyone starts asking around for LFG through their social networks. By 11:30, you find the last 5 people and by then, 3 others have left. By 12 am, you are finnally ready, then....

YOU WIPE.

Everyone bitches, points fingers, you find out 4 people dont have vent so they get booted, 2 more people leave and the search goes out again.

By 1 am, you give it another try, managed to wipe two more times before you actually clear one wing. Everyone quits for the night, promises to meat tomorrow, but then your guild leader calls you to a side chat in ventrillo and explains what you did wrong. He tells you to go watch you tube, read the forums and understand all the fights coming up for the week.

He gives you advice on how you should play, on what armor you need.

Next day. Rinse. Repeat. And another talk from your guild leader about how you are supposed to play a game.

That's why I hate raiding.

If the raid is at 10, everybody should be on before then to be prepared and waiting for the invite, which usually happens 15-30 mins before start time. Enough people should be on the calendar invite to fill the raid, plus some for standby. If not then you should be doing 10man instead of 25. You don't do guild raids unless you have the required tanks/heals in your core, that should be a non-issue. By 10 (dsignated start time) you are standing at the first trash pull, flasked, buffed and fed. Everyone there is on vent/mumble (requirement to be invited in the first place, as it's the first sign that the person is actually raid worthy).

Wipes happen. It's part of the learning process. Nobody has any cause to complain unless that particular raid is on farm (meaning you can do it in your sleep). Getting back from a wipe should take very little time. 5 mins max.

If your guild leader has to tell you how to gear and what you did wrong (twice!) instead of you immediately recognizing your mistake and working to correct it, I'd have to say you're not ready for raiding. It's not his job to educate you about your class skills and gearing, that is part of being a good raider.. as is knowing about fights before you get to them. Sounds to me like you hate raiding becuse you are not prepared.

This is how my guild works, and we consider ourselves quite casual. That doesn't mean we can't do what we do correctly. We schedule raids when people can be there, and we keep on schedule as people enjoy raiding and are happy to be there. Else there is always someone that would be happy to have your spot.

Originally posted by talismen351

 Also there is only one server...for the entire world...so in most any game it wouldn't be that much of a streach to have 52k accounts logged on.

If you are creative minded, this is a great place to build n create. But be honest...majority are there for the sexual creativity.

Old post, I know, but still relevent and I'd like to make some points.

It is blatantly false that there is only one server for the whole world. Each sim is run on one pc core within a virtual server, each physical server runs quad core processors so there are 4 sims per physical server, with the exception of the openspace sims which run 4 per core.. 16 per server. I don't know the exact number of sims online atm, but the last hard number I saw was over 13k. It's pretty easy to see that there are thousands of servers that make up the land cluster, and this is not including other utility server clusters such as the asset server and backup server.

In short, for all intents and purposes you are being handed off from one server to another any time you cross a sim border. This is why there are sometimes (lol) problems with border crossing or teleportation.

Other games such as WoW use many different server setups as well. It's not just 1 server per realm. Each realm is a cluster of clusters, and some clusters are a part of/interact with multiple realms, such as the battlegroup battlegrounds instance servers and again there are utility server clusters such as the login server.

I do understand what you meant though. You are talking about having one contiguous space with no loading screens. I think we've not really figured out all the scaling issues that come with that.. in the context of using it in a game. Yes, SL does it. SL is not a game in a very real and technical sense. SL limits the amount of people who can be in one place at once via sim controls and also any event is usually known about and appealing to a very small portion of the population. Default is, I believe, 40 avatars per sim. Depending on how they are "dressed" (yeah I'm looking at you in the 500 prim 2 pc hair that I "felt" as a lag wave as soon as you landed) you can have decent performance (no prim attachments, no AO) or you can absolutely tank the server (blingtards). If you know what you're doing, and can control your visitors well enough I have seen 120 people at once on a private sim during an event. This is very much the exception, and crashes were expected, contingency plans in place. Now consider this in a real game environment if you had 50k+ people in game concurrent and an event was going on. Many more people would be involved as they are all playing the "same" game and interested in doing anything new. I can give a direct example. Entropia Universe uses contiguous space in just this way. No shards, everyone shares.... the lag. The evil, aweful, terrible lag that happens any time there is an event and everybody tries to crowd into the same spot. The game darn near grinds to a halt, or crashes altogether. It's just a bad idea until a solution is found... and this is why games with a substantial number of people (with the potential for many to be in one area) are sharded. The network scaling just isn't there yet.
 

I've been in SL since the time when you would only see 5k online concurrently. I do remember the day when 1 million accounts was hit (yeah, it was a big deal.. they put 1 million up on the sun for everybody to see). I've seen many milestones so I've been around the block more than once with SL. I know a bit about the tech. I've created, taught, bought and sold. Just so you understand that I have a deep understanding of all there is to do in SL. With all this said, I have never felt the need to partake in any of the sex play that goes on there. This is not to say I don't recognize that the people who created the things neccessary for people to do this have chosen a popular market heh. More to point out that it is possible to have a "full second life" without that playing any part whatsoever.

Originally posted by zidane01970

I don't agree with this, I use "WoW Clone" to describe these hundreds of mmos that use the same "Click to Attack", and watch the fight style combat. That bores me to tears. WoW was the first one to notably do it, as it followed a lot of other generic systems too. "Generic RPG" systems, I personally like WoW, but I would love to see more real-time combat MMORPG. These Psuedo-turn based games so many companies seem to be making are getting extremely old to me.

I'm not real sure what you mean by ""Click to Attack", and watch the fight style combat" as applied to the combat system of WoW. I know that surely isn't the way I experience it.. in any way, shape or form. If that was the case there certainly wouldn't be any need for voice communications during raids in order to execute a particular strategy for bosses. Would be more like.. "Ok, everybody.. click now. GG. We win."... but it's not like that at all. During raids you watch for things that are happening, and give the proper response, in real time. Example, boss starts casting searing flames, they must immediately be interrupted. There is no turn based anything in there. Please explain to me how you consider this "Psuedo-turn based". Maybe I'm missing something but I really don't get what your gripe is with the mechanics or how it could be done better.

I know that during our raids things can sometimes happen so fast it's hard to mentally process and react to them in time. The only thing I can think of that you could be referring to would be the global cooldown, but then many actions are instants. I really can't fathom how combat in WoW could be any more "real time" without being a FPS.

Before you go calling me a fanboi one more thing.. about the polish issue.. lol. I guess maybe at release WoW was more "finished" than some of it's competition. I firmly believe that has long been relegated to a buzzword now. There are so many small issues, bugs and unresolved "promised" bits it's not even funny anymore. Druids have been left with what amounts to placeholder art for *years*, only now are they getting around to updating tired and downright broken models/textures. Several pieces have very broken texturing. Falling through the ground bugs.. being stuck and needing a GM to move you to a safe place, reviving on a totally different continent than what you were just on.. the list goes on and on. I guess nobody was around for the 2+weeks of  "beta on live servers" as many reffered to it when the patch just *before* LK went live last year when all the new assets were brought into the client. Now still we have promised features from this expansion nowhere to be seen.. hunter ammo changes, dance changes.. just off the top of my head. So there. It's really not that polished.