F7437FB5BDAF44ACB173

Have fun!

Originally posted by epeeblade3

anyone have any keys left?

I would really like one.

I'll PM you one of my spares when I get them!

Originally posted by Khamous

84BD82F16FB84C108AE0

13B405024A0C4805AF7D

I just nabbed 13B405024A0C4805AF7D, thank you!

I'll post in a few minutes with my two keys.

Originally posted by sloeber

nature does whas nature does.....tsunamis, vulcano's, floods.....everyday they come with all kinda crap to help these poor people........LET THE RICH PAY and leave the working class alone.......realy sick of seeing al this shit on TV all evening long.....now they are starting ingame too....fuck that.

 

If you're not rich enough to donate a PLEX then don't. I am sure plenty of "rich" people play EVE. It's a fairly diverse game. CCP is doing a good thing. Just because you're sick of hearing about it doesn't mean people don't need help. The only way to get them help is to create as many avenues for assistance as possible.

In short, get over it. The minor inconvenience you feel from seeing news about Pakistan is orders of magnitude smaller than the grief Pakistanis feel who've lost entire villages to mudslides.

I'd love a key. I'll return the favor. Thanks!

Originally posted by neorandom

cant blame ff 14 on console port, its not out on console, its out on pc and getting ported to console =p tards

I can only assume you have not played it then, judging by your remarks. I can't imagine a single reason why you should even be replying to this thread other than the obvious...

They may be releasing the PC version first, but it was developed as a console game as well. There's a reason so many people are ditching the keyboard and mouse to play it with an Xbox 360 controller. Anyway, both versions are being developed together, which means neither is technically a port of the other.

I agree though, it PLAYS like a console port.

It took me several tries but I got the game to boot and the patch is working. I downloaded whichever version was available here (http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/13698/ffxiv-mouse-lag-fix/) this morning.

I think the reason the game wasn't getting to the title screen was because of the patch. I didn't do anything different, it just started working; much to my relief. I thought I had gone and screwed up my files. My only guess is that you need to be online for the game to even launch. Though, there is always the possibility I accidentally fixed whatever was broken without knowing. I do that sometimes. Don't ask me to tell you what I did. :)

Oh, one possibility is, I ran the mouse unpatcher on the old .exe file, ran the game patcher again, then re-installed the mouse patch. I can't be 100% certain, however.

It looks like the lobby server is still down however. It should be up, according to SE, at around 9PM PST.

Originally posted by elocke

ANY mob that does some type of knockdown or stun. Can't stand the flow of my battle being interrupted, especially on "trash" mobs. Bosses are one thing, but fighting the common bird/spiders/wolves etc. is tedious as it is. I don't need to be even more frustrated by stuns and knockdown. Now running away and grabbing friends, that's ok, gives me more to kill ;D

Totally! Regular trash mobs, unless you are in some epic dungeon, should NOT be powerful enough to knock down a hero; especially not random wildlife. If that kind of thing were a little rarer, it would make the powerful mobs feel more challenging, special, or epic. A "+1" from me on this one! :)

Originally posted by SgtFrog

So am I the only one who hates Murlocs?

I played WoW back in 05 and I hated the little buggas >.> 

You think Murlocs are annoying? You should have fought Squibs in Asheron's Call back in 1999! They were LOUD and made the most obnoxious screach/howl/whistle/warcry/WTF!? sort of noise. It's indescribable!

Every time one sneaked up behind me and went "AIEIEIEIEIEIEIEHroooooOOOOTT!!!!" I think I lost 10 years of my life.

They are so annoying, no one even wanted to video capture one for the purposes of YouTube. I looked!

Originally posted by bronecar

The way I see it, gameplay should always come first, followed by a solid background story. After all, MMORPG's are not novels.

 

I strongly believe they should coexist, but if I were to choose, I'd say drop the lore and go for the gore.

 

So what are your thoughts on the matter?

I agree with you. Gameplay first, everything else second. If the gameplay is not good, people will not play in the long run.

Even though I have not had a chance to play it yet Nailzz, your mini-review is exactly what I felt after watching gameplay footage. I am not expecting any more out of this than a good F2P action multiplayer game. It does appear, however, they are dropping the sorceress in the NA version, which is no good for me. That is the class I really wanted to play!

[EDIT: I just looked at another site and they seem to have the impression the sorceress is in after all. I think maybe I was just mislead by the wiki site which had not yet announced the sorceress for Vindictus]

Originally posted by d_dlh

Giving a tought about Neverwinter and D&D 4th edition. In the new FR Campaign Setting its wrote "Port cities north of Waterdeep didn’t fare well in the years after the Spellplague;
both Neverwinter and Luskan are now in utter ruin". How can they even consider make a game there. Not to metion the already said developer ....

Just because they're using the 4th edition rules does not mean they will be using the exact 4th edition setting. Neverwinter Nights from the PNP perspective is a "module." In a D&D module, the DM picks a place and time in an existing campaign setting, or creates his own. Every aspect of any campaign setting or module is merely a suggestion for the dungeon master. There is no reason they cannot use the 4th edition rules, and then pick some point in history when Edition 3.5, 3.0 or even 2nd Edition were in use. The rule set has nothing to do with campaign setting.

Originally posted by Burntvet

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by randomt

100,000k? That's pretty reasonable..

If one assumes say, 10 bucks a month for each, that's 1 million $, so after expenses should be a profit..

Course them AAA titles, they start out with huge budgets, so that might not be enough to recoup..

But for an indie 100k would be a nice amount, imho

Yeah, 130k boxes sold doesn't quite get back the $81 million they spent making this travesty. Hence the "administration" (bankruptcy).

Add on top of that, there is a large percentage of players playing "for free", because of accruing game time through in game means.

Not saying that is bad or anything, but from a business perspective it does bite into the bottom line.

From the explanations of the business model I have read, no one is really playing for free any more than people trading ISK for game time in EVE are. Excepting the 100 free RTW points players get for buying the game, all RTW points players get and use to pay for game time represent money that was given to Realtime Worlds. In other words, player B buys RTW points, and trades them to player A for an item. Player A then uses those RTW points to buy game time. Player A did not spend his own money for the game time, player B did. So, while player A from his own perspective is playing "for free," from Realtime World's perspective, no one is playing for free because all game time is paid for, no matter what.

Their failure is less an issue of business model, and more an issue of too few subscribers to pay for high development costs.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Sinistrad

Unless you're a BIG name like Blizzard, BioWare (maybe), Sony, or ArenaNet, or you have a team of truly top-notch developers which have worked on huge successful projects in the past like Trion does, making a big-budget MMO is horribly, horribly stupid. 

ANET wasn't that big just a little while ago. 3 developers including lead designer Jeff Strain jumped off the development of Wow 1999 and started their own company. The first GW box were made on a really low budget by a minimum crew. Of course 7 million sold boxes with little costs gave the company a lot of money they could put into the development of GW2.

Arenanet was a small company just a few years ago but had talented and experienced people. It is not big companies that makes good MMOs, it is good devs.

APBs creator is experienced but he never made a MMO before and try to make a FPS MMO with MMO like fees. I think that was a mistake, he should have made the game B2P instead, then sales would have been higher (I would have bought it then),

APB got some stuff really right but it have too few options to be a real MMO and is instead a FPS game with a lot of fees. 130K players is still acceptable if the game can keep those for a few years but the question is if they can?

My point was that ArenaNet became big by not making a "huge" standard MMO on the first go, but by making something slightly smaller and different. I played in beta, so I know what it was like back then. They took the money and invaluable experience gained from the less risky, hugely successful GW1, and used it to move forward to GW2; not in a literal sense, but figuratively. Companies which try to "go big" on their first try, that do not have a TON of experienced MMO developers and deep pockets, are setting themselves up for an almost guaranteed failure. If you go slightly smaller, or have a less risky business model that does not require a large number of players to have a successful launch, then the risk is lessened dramatically. Due to the success of GW1, NCSoft will have more patience with ANet and is more likely to be amicable during delays and other issues. In other words, NCSoft is less likely to cut off their money supply or force ANet to launch early; both of which are devastating to MMOs.

I am by no means stating they WILL succeed, only that they are "big" now in the sense they have a truly successful game out there which exhibits very polished game design. As with any company, the big 'B' included, their future success will always remain to be seen.

Good developers have experience and vision, but are nothing without money, support, and leadership. Currently, ANet appears to have all of the above.

Your last bit says it exactly right. They went too many directions, so they got some stuff right, but it just doesn't make the cut for a triple-A MMO. So, the numbers of 130k don't mean much, if they need 500k to be profitable with their current business model. They'd have been better off with a smaller, more dedicated group paying a steady $15/month which could finance future development.

Companies like Turbine actually give me hope for successful F2P models that don't suck. Though, both LoTRO and DDO are oddities in that they started out as P2P but have transferred or are transferring to F2P. Those can be discussed in another thread, however. ;)

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Normike

The hallmark of an Elder Scrolls game is that leveling is skill based. If you swing your sword alot you will become a warrior, if you electrocute your enemies with lightning from your fingers alot then you will become a better wizard. That's what people like about Elder Scrolls. But skill based levelling isn't popular in the top MMOs.

 

This actually is what I did NOT like about Elder Scrolls. I liked the world, not the skill system.

I find use it to improve it skill systems to be very unnatural and contrived.

I do this in those systems all the time, and I bet you do to.

I have developed a skill, so it does good damage, like say sword swinging.

But I want some range damage too, like a ranged spell.

So, what do I do when I encounter a mob?

I  COULD easily kill it with my sword, which would be the logical in character thing to do.

BUT, to raise my spell skill, I'll hit it over and over with a weak spell to raise my spell skill.

Why in the world would my character do that? Because of the game system, and that's the only way to raise the skill. Kinda breaks the immersion, that I use my weaker skill instead of my most powerful, just to raise skills.

I prefer getting skill points, and spending them on skills I want.

Actually, yes, if you change your mind much later on, that is how it would go realistically. Or, you might toss one or two weak spells every time you fought an enemy while still largely using your sword. OR, you could use some foresight, and develop combat tactics which level each skill to the degree you prefer, thus preventing any "backtracking."

Of course, I don't see how being a little more realistic would break immersion for me. Neurosurgeons do not use their experience to buy levels in Rock Star, though that would certainly be more convenient. Oblivion and Morrowind only had this problem because the world levels with the player. In a world where certain mobs either have no levels at all, or certain mobs have fixed levels, someone wishing to raise a low-level skill could go fight low level/easier monsters and do low level quests. (Let it be said I am more a fan of a pure skill system, without levels at all, but that's just me.)

Back to the OP, though... I think it can be done, and there is a good possibility it is being done. However, for it to work, it will need to be exceptionally well designed, and by its very nature will have some necessary changes that a lot of the old school Elder Scrolls fans will hate. That is a guarantee. Me, I like a lot of different kinds of games, so if and when I get any real information I will have an open mind about any changes.

The bottom line is that developers need to quit expecting, or shooting for, big subscription numbers. Not too many years ago 200,000 active players was a healthy MMO, and 130,000 would have been considered nothing to sneeze at. The real problem is that budgets for these games have ballooned out of control largely due to the success of WoW*. This of course means they also need more players, which is a problem.

Spending oodles of cash on an MMO is one of the worst investments a developer/publisher can make. Unless you're a BIG name like Blizzard, BioWare (maybe), Sony, or ArenaNet, or you have a team of truly top-notch developers which have worked on huge successful projects in the past like Trion does, making a big-budget MMO is horribly, horribly stupid. There are, and will always be, exceptions to this rule. Yet, these success stories are just that, stories. As such, they are viewed with hindsight. Companies like CCP have shown us that smaller budgets and rock solid** game design, coupled with a dedicated live team to slowly grow the game over time, are the ideal method for smaller companies with smaller wallets to shoulder their way into this intensely competitive market. The other option is to build small and expect small. If the game explodes, one can always expand later. Truly, no bet is safe in the MMO market, but overspending on grandiose design is downright irresponsible.

In any case, the real takeaway from this should not be that 130,000 players is an utter failure, but that the company grossly overspent on development in false anticipation of far more users. They reached in too many directions with their game design, causing their game to lack focus. Unless one is building a true sandbox MMO (which is a whole other Oprah), a game at launch should be relatively focused with the intent of branching out later if the game does well.

 *I swear this isn't flame bait. It's just a fact that WoW is an anomly numbers-wise in the NA market, and that it drives expectations to some degree because of this.

**I know some will argue here, I won't argue back!

Originally posted by SuperXero89

The endgame stuff is ok, as power gamers tend to get what they deserve in that regard, but the rest of this has me facepalming.

Limited mana worked extremely well for DDO. As long as the game is properly designed with this in mind, that should not be a problem. I agree about the /facepalm on some of the other stuff, though.

Originally posted by Rockgod99
How does wanting to play in a non- pvp environment make you a casual that ruined a genre?

There's nothing wrong with it. But that segment of gamers is much easier to pander to. The genre is hardly ruined, but people who want more out of their games were definitely edged out as the genre evolved. The attempts to please us have been such ham-fisted, hollow, under-funded, over-hyped indie trainwrecks, that we essentially have no place to go. So, it should come as no surprise when we exhibit a bit of hostility every time a new title claims it will be hardcore, then slowly gives way to the casual gamers who already have plenty of titles to keep them busy. This is as much a consequence of bad game design as it is of the majority stomping all over the minority.

Also, you may have been replying to the post previous mine, but "hardcore" does not necessarily imply a focus on PvP. However, I will admit the more recent titles are definitely PvP focused. Hardcore players just want MORE out of their games. They want higher octane, deeper, more interesting gameplay. Casuals don't play as much, and so a game with less depth and more shiny is perfectly suited to them. There's nothing wrong with that, it just makes us power gamers want to brain someone.

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by Rockgod99
Have you ever asked yourself why the population thinned out after trammel? Why there was such a divide and a outcry for more "safe" areas? maybe, just maybe people didn't want to be police or be policed? Maybe pre-trammel uo wasn't as good as you think it was. I mean shurely if pre-trammel was so fantastic the playerbase wouldn't have divided in such a way?

The population thinned because it was a crap update that split the community, I thought I'd already alluded to that point.

Certainly pre Trammel may not well have been as good as I recall, there is undoubtedly a touch of the old rose tinted glasses from my point of view as there will be from any person who reminisces (perhaps thats too strong a word) about gaming days gone by. But like it or not, the change that occured with Trammel (imho) set the trend for the subsequent glut of casual mmos. Now whether that is for the better or worse is all in the eye of the beholder, but it is clear that Trammel played a vastly important part in the 'casualisation' of the mmo genre and was the start of the split in the community at large.

No kidding. The casuals have strangled everyone else with their drool-covered pocketbooks which vomit forth cash every time some two-bit developer releases a garishly colored, facerolling clickfest.

Hardcore gamers, or even gamers just looking for a bit more nuanced, complex and engaging games are VERY hard to please. So the question for developers becomes, do you want easy drool-slathered money, or slightly less moist, but difficult to obtain money?

I know the answer to that one, and I think the rest of us here do as well. :)

Go play MO or Darkfall. :P

I fail to see any point here that hasn't already been discussed as nauseam.