Originally posted by Ozmodan

Originally posted by sonoggi

nothing is cleared up...the CSM meeting was a waste of time, and nothing more than a publicity stunt. CCP's language is vague and they did not commit to anything. they have no respect for players, as Hilmar stated in this email: they do not care what players say. but sheep will be sheep.

Comptely wrong!  CCP is one of the most customer responsive developers in the business.  You have to be blind to not see that.

The entire incident was completely blown out of proportion by forum trolls.

Umm thousands of forum trolls that logged in blockaded Jita and other systems.

You may not agree with their concerns but CCP has certainly upset a lot of PLAYERS and while they might communicate to their players it is very much a high handed parental style level of communication where they let you know what they think is best for you to know and to not worry your pretty little heads about the details.

CCP respects that their customers might choose to go elsewhere with their hard earned subscription money and time but that is not the same as actually respecting the customers.

I think the arguement that people make about getting bored quickly seems to apply to almost every new game that comes out. Personally, I have found that I was bored with WoW and have tried a lot of other games and haven't found one that has really been able to keep my interest but I think that is more an issue with me and less with the games.

I enjoyed Rift and I think it is one of the better releases that has come out and if you aren't like me and bored to death with everything you will probably enjoy it. On the other hand if you are bored then it is not likely to keep you entertained.

WoW is certainly a better written game and very well polished but for me after having played it for so long the combination of boredom, repitition of expansions and Blizzard turning a blind eye to all the botters I just can't be bothered with WoW any more.

Having said that it looks like maybe I spoke to soon about this game as the server has just gone down so I am likely to have completely forgotten about it by the time it comes back up (if it does).

Well I read a post from Derek Smart and he seemed interesting enough to give the game a try so I downloaded it and have created a character. So far it is fine though as has been stated nothing earth shattering but it is good enough for me to continue and I will see how it develops. One feature I like was the studies which are time based much like the Eve Online training is so I will be interested in seeing how that works out.

I am not fussed one way or another about any similiarties towards other games as long as the game doesn't crash and is reasonably fun to play. So far Alganon is fine.

The new patch sounds interesting and I would love to return and give it a try but it is a shame that Blizzard doesn't take gold farmers seriously as that is what finally drove me away after having played from Day One. Towards the end I report 8 to 10 bots each day and while I would get emails and the occaisional GM would log on and talk to me the bots would continue to run doing the same things the same way in the same places day in and day out.

WoW may not be as full of bots as Eve Online but it is certainly headed that way.

Plex is a way for a player to buy ISK and even if people want to say that this is not a RMT they are wrong. Part of the issue as that the people saying it isn't RMT seem to have an odd view of how ISK is generated in the game as if somehow it is fixed. People work to earn some ISK and then trade it for a PLEX and if the PLEX hadn't existed they probably wouldn't have gone to the effort of generating that new ISK from mining or mission running.

What Plex to ISK does do is give the money for this transaction to CCP instead of a professional gold farmer and that is probably a good thing on a couple of fronts as it provides a supply for the deman of easy to acquire ISK in exchange for cash and helps reduce the professional bots somewhat. The problem is that it is probably too late for the game as it is swamped with gold farmers and really not much fun to play any more.

Running an online game is not an easy business and the desire to grow and expand your business makes it hard to keep currently happy customers still happy as they have invested a lot of time and energy in the old way things were done.

Having said that this is really nothing new and CCP has been at odds with their customer base for sometime now and this is just the next step in it. They have been slowly forcing people to play the game they way they envision it and again this is a difficult call between having a vision and bringing to the market and refusing to listen to your customers. Unfortunately CCP has moved over to the "customer be damned" side a couple of years ago even if they do have community managers and programs the tasks of these groups are mostly one way to feed out to the community and much less to take on board what the customers think.

The issue of cosmetic items is superficial on the surface but actually it is going to have a huge impact on the economy of the game market. Plex has already had an impact to the ISK economy and now CCP adding a big hoover to suck up large amounts of ISK off the market will simply increase the Plex to ISK ratio which is actually CCPs intent and why the cost of these cosmetic items is so high. They want to reduce the amount of ISK in circulation and this is an easy way for them to do so.

Eve Online is full of bots and gold farmers and this is just going to add to it and continue its downward spiral. Shame really.

Originally posted by XxGrimmxX

Originally posted by rwmiller

Originally posted by XxGrimmxX

What are they supposed to learn? You think the companies want to have law suits and other legal matters on their hands due to hacked account information.. Get real.

 

You changed your message so to expand on my reply no I don't think that they WANT to get hacked, sued or have bad PR but a business is always in tension between the bean counters that want to reduce costs and those that want to do things that cost money but don't directly generate revenue. Good security costs time and money and requires that companies make that effort and even then they still will be subject to new exploits that are developed but failing to keep up and be active will result in breaches like this. Smaller remote offices are ideal targets because that is one of the first places that standards tend to slip.

 

But the fact that they didn't want it to happen and the fact that it did are two entirely different points. I'm perfectly real btw.

So if you can't be completely protected due to new exploits, you would think they would pick a good spot and stick with it because constantly trying to update your security would cost a lot, especially for "smaller remote offices". Seems like if you were only worried about security not much would get done.. hmmm

No you are right in that there has to be balance in your approach but in the security business paranoia is the best choice because there really are people out to get you. And to be honest you can sometimes make your system less secure by updating it with something that is not fully tested. It is not an easy task and maybe I was a bit harsh in my original statement but the idea that anyone in the gaming industry who has not or is not busy doing security aduits of all their systems haven't learned the basic lesson of "let it be that other poor bastard first".

I vaguely rember a statement by someone working for the Secret Service that said an assassin only needs to be succesfull once but that they need to be succesfull 100% which is a lot harder.

Originally posted by XxGrimmxX

What are they supposed to learn? You think the companies want to have law suits and other legal matters on their hands due to hacked account information.. Get real.

You changed your message so to expand on my reply no I don't think that they WANT to get hacked, sued or have bad PR but a business is always in tension between the bean counters that want to reduce costs and those that want to do things that cost money but don't directly generate revenue. Good security costs time and money and requires that companies make that effort and even then they still will be subject to new exploits that are developed but failing to keep up and be active will result in breaches like this. Smaller remote offices are ideal targets because that is one of the first places that standards tend to slip.

But the fact that they didn't want it to happen and the fact that it did are two entirely different points. I'm perfectly real btw.

Originally posted by XxGrimmxX

What are they supposed to learn? They have all of the standard defenses up. Of course people like you are going to complain when you really have no idea what actually happened.

I guess they could learn the same lesson you need to learn which is not to assume you know everything.

In this case they failed to follow their own internal security audting standards in regards to these systems based on some faulty assumptions but you are familar with that so you should be able to understand it.

It's not directly related to their MMOs and it is not of the same size as the EPIC FAIL that Sony let happen but never the less it seems companies still refuse to learn lessons other than the hard way.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13394968

It certainly doesn't hurt Blizz to toss out a week of free play to lure some players back to the game though I doubt the uptake will be all that great since most stopped playing not because there was something better out there but because they were tired of WoW. In my case I had slowly cut back and eventually stopped full time raiding and once that happened the only real reason to log on was to chat with people and with so many other ways to keep your social network active WoW really was an expensive way to keep up with people.

I tried Rift and I really enjoyed it and for what it promises it delivers but it is a new game from a small company and so lacks a lot of the depth and range that older games have been able to deliver over time. But, playing Rift was less an issue about WoW and more me just seeing how well it was done. Ultimately I didn't stick with it but I'm not sure that there is any game out there that will ever get me hooked the way EQ and WoW did. For me the pleasure of being able to go to a movie or watch a show or go out at night and not have my life tied up with a raiding schedule has proven to be more interesting and attractive than any existing game and likely any game in development. I will try them all as they come out just to satisfy my curiosity but I will never be willing or able to dedicate that much of my life to what is really only a hobby.

Originally posted by Donloko

 

The magic of the first months at wow launch will never come back…

(mod edit)

People who say Rift doesn't bring anything new to the genre aren't bringing anything new to the discussion. Is Rift an amazing game with innovation dribbling from every pixel? No. Is it a bad game? No. It is what it is and for some it is fine and for others it is not interesting enough to play. Going on about it again and again is more boring than the game itself.

Please note that I am not saying your points aren't valid or that your opinion isn't accurate. I'm just saying its been said numerous times already and there really isn't much more to be said about it.

Yawn. This again? It already has been discussed to death.

This is certainly a potential issue with Rift and possibly any new game that comes out now. Part of what makes this a problem is that levelling in Rift is quite fast and efficient which leads people to not group very much outside of the public quests that pop up. With out groups there is not much social interaction and that can result in a lot of boring solo time.

Adding more difficult and time consuming quests would help this but then people would skip them at the lower levels and complain about them being too hard or requiring a party to complete.

Unfortunately any existing or new game where the goal is to get the max level is going to suffer this.

Yep, it's just you.

Though like any thing or any game it is what you make of it. If you want to make a cookie cutter build and go with a min/max strategy then you are likely to end up that way. On the other hand if you are less about that and more about experimenting and finding something fun and challenging then there are lots of builds that can do that.

I find the quest versus "task" idea to be very accurate. Most MMOs have devolved into a task based game instead of questing game. In Everquest there were quite a few quests that were highly involved and complicated that required, luck, effort, perserverence and not a little bit of thought. Getting your epic weapon being one of them.

Sadly, I'm not sure people have the patience to do questing like that any more, certainly not for the mainstream give it to me now type of gamer.

It is funny how many of the negative comments are really less about Rift and more about what it is not. It isn't original, it isn't innovative, it doesn't cure cancer. I'm not sure what people were expecting but some of the "I hate Rift" seems a bit extreme for a game that is solid, well crafted and deliveres a good deal of fun to those who do enjoy it for what it is.

Would I like to see something new and innovative? Of course as would almost anyone. Sadly, my experience with new and innovative frequently turns into broken and imcomplete but that is the way game development goes.

Friends, Gamers, Developers, lend me your ears; 
I come to bury Rift, not to praise him; 
The evil that men do lives after them, 
The good is oft interred with their bones, 
So let it be with Rift ... The noble WoW 
Hath told you Rift was ambitious: 
If it were so, it was a grievous fault, 
And grievously hath Rift answered it ...
Here, under leave of WoW and the rest, 
(For WoW is an honourable game; 
So are they all; all honourable games) 
Come I to speak in Rift's funeral ...
He was my friend, faithful and just to me: 
But WoW says he was ambitious; 
And WoW is an honourable game…. 
He hath brought many captives home to Telara, 
Whose ransoms did the general coffers fill: 
Did this in Rift seem ambitious? 
When that the poor have cried, Rift hath wept: 
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff: 
Yet WoW says he was ambitious; 
And WoW is an honourable game. 
You all did see that on the Worgen 
I thrice presented him a kingly crown, 
Which he did thrice refuse: was this ambition? 
Yet WoW says he was ambitious; 
And, sure, he is an honourable man. 
I speak not to disprove what WoW spoke, 
But here I am to speak what I do know. 
You all did love him once, not without cause: 
What cause withholds you then to mourn for him? 
O judgement! thou art fled to brutish beasts, 
And men have lost their reason…. Bear with me; 
My heart is in the coffin there with Rift, 
And I must pause till it come back to me.

Rift is a big well made chocolate cake. If you want chocolate cake and if you like chocolate cake then you won't be disappointed in Rift. It is moist and has a well made buttercream frosting and they have even added sprinkles and a few candles to make it a bit special.

But no matter how well made a chocolate cake it might be if you are looking for beef stew then you are not going to be impressed and you are not going to be happy and at the end you will be unfullfilled and full of useless calories.

Don't be fooled by the pictures of a chocolate cake on the cover of the Rift box as what is inside is just chocolate cake please go purchase a can of stew if that is what you are in the mood for. Don't blame us if you end up fat and with pimples after you consume your share of Rift.

The mechanics of the game they don't like? So the mechanics which have worked and are popular in other games now suddenly aren't any good?

A yellow dog instead of a brown dog? How many changes need to be done for it qualify as a different breed? One, two or is it a standard that can't realistically be met until it has been genetically modified into a cat?

I would say that Rift has succeeded in releasing a brown dog instead of a yellow one. Yeah the changes are mostly cosmetic in nature but there are some really nice refinements that get ignored. For example the map overview that they have is so well done you can expect it to be copied into WoW and any other games that come out in the future.

Is Rift still a dog and does it have fleas? Yes, for example the crafting has no heart or soul and while it isn't offensive and its not useless it also isn't much fun though at least it isn't horrible. Could Rift be better than it is? With out a doubt and hopefully it will be improved but we will have to wait and see about that.