Originally posted by Minsc

what some people don't seem to realise is that without PVP combat the economy would tank, there would be massive inflation and the game would go to hell. EVE is a PVP oriented game, EVERYTHING is designed around it. Not everyone is involved in it directly but everyone contributes to it in some way. The whole reason the game's economy works is because they did design it around an open PVP gameplay mechanic.

If CCP were to start a non-pvp server the economy would fail. It would stagnate, ships and modules would sit up for months on the market without being bought, mineral prices would bottom out and people would be stuck with billions of isk in assets serving no purpose whatsoever. This game was designed such that you can't have the economy without the pvp gameplay to drive it.

Period

More ships are used and lost in the PvE aspect of the game in mission running then in the PvP aspect.

Look at the number of ships destroyed in any given 24 hour period. The most ships are destroyed in high security empire then anywhere else.

As for inflation, it would not be caused from ships and modules sitting around would cause a recession. Prices would lower and things would be more affordable.

Originally posted by nurgles

 

lmao

 

the simple fact is that your definition of pvp is different from mine (and the developers) which means you missed the point. someone mining roids is pvping, as they affect another miners income. 

player vs player in the game is in every action you do. you haul, you trade, you mine, at every stage you are eating into someones profit margin. fighting them economicaly, thats why there is an economics devblog.

in the above quote a subcategory of PvP is mentioned, the operations, or the pew pew.

The problem with you saying that is that you know that the players view PvP as player vs player in all games. It means that one player is beating up, or killing, or stealing or even blowing up their ships as is the case with Eve. When you hear a normal player refer to hating PvP in a game, it is not the way you interperet it but the way that I stated the accepted meaning of PvP. Not you you say it is. All you do is confuse people with your words and try to cause people to make a bigger deal out of things like this that should never be argued over.

Besides, what I quoted is directly from the report. If the Market folks post their information the same way I am telling you (and others about it) then you are in the wrong "ideal" with the way you think of PvP. Get on the same page with the rest of us.

Originally posted by nurgles

 

if you buy or sell on the market, you participate in PvP.

 

Any T2 item has components in it that were fought for. Every manufactured item onsale has players undercutting each other to get your isk. Almost every player that sells to buy orders is losing in PvP. It is not a a podding or a shiney explosion and pew pew, but it is PvP.

this is why the game needs a quarterly finantial report, it is an indicator to those who PvP with resources in the game.

"There are five industrial/mining ships on the top ten list, further supporting evidence from the last QEN that at any given time, a substantial portion of characters are involved in mining/trading and manufacturing rather than mission running or PvP operations."

Please get your facts right before you choose to distort them.

Originally posted by admiralnlson
rofl. There are more PvE players than PvP players in the MMO player population. The population in Eve reflects that too. That doesn't make Eve a PvE game.

 

With that said, PvP is NOT the main focus in Eve. Most players are not interested in it, most alliances that are created are not created for it either. Just look at the alliances list in game. Over 80% in that list are INDUSTRIAL alliances. So no the main Eve players are not PVPers.

Note: Eve has less then most other MMO's in the number of players. Most of the serious Eve players have multiple accounts and most of the eve players have multiple accounts to do industry and not PVP. Numbers do not lie, the report shows what is being done, inflation is down and that is all due to a very good industry (not good pvp). So no Eve does not reflect what you said. Not even close.

I would also point out that for the multiple accounts that I have I do not pay for them with money but with in game ISK (credits/money). So CCP is not making any real work money off me or from the looks of their trading forum a lot of people.

With that said, this market report is the best to date. I did not really find anything that was not far from what I would perceive to be correct. Some of their conclusions are wrong but that is what makes it worth reading.

One thing of note. By capping the price of Tritanium with the NPC price of shuttles, CCP has done what they said they would not do. Directly interfear with the in game mechanics. I have (we have) watched over the last quarter in Eve the Dev's do this many times with stealth nerfs that are never listed in the patch notes. There were a LOT of changes in Trinity that had direct impact on the markets that never made it into this report.

When people post about these changes on the Official Eve Forums, those threads are locked, or even deleted in some cases. In one instance, it was called and exploit and they made a hot fix to patch it. What is needed is a third party website that allows people to post about this stuff so others can then decide for themselves what the real market picture is. An addition problem with this is that you are also not allowed to link to those other websites from the Eve forums. Total pain in the A$$.

I am interested in the PvE and not the PvP.

PvP is one of the reasons that Eve Online is not as large as it could be.

PvE is one of the reasons why WoW is as successful as it is.

Earth and Beyond was very successful because it was PvE and if EA had not bought Westwood I am willing to bet that it would still be around today.

If you want to have PvP in the game make it optional. That is the best way. The next choice is to have certain high reward areas that would draw people to them as PvP only areas. Not as effective but at least middle ground.

If this game is going to be major PvP then I am not interested in it anymore. 

Originally posted by Rhoklaw

 

Don't just assume that because things are settled, that P2 or whatever company they are now can honestly be trusted. I for one can understand the act of privacy for what became of the settlement out of court, but if you need privacy, than you screwed up, that's the facts.

1) Unless you were there, then you don't know.

2) Do assume you know when in fact you don't because you were not there. See #1.

3) Stop looking to start an argument when none is required. Trolling forums is a wasts of everyones time.

4) Subscription and billing departments of gaming companies are usually handled by a seperate division in house. More recently the trend is to hire it out to third party companies to handle this for them. So one issue has absolutely nothing to do with the other. But that is what happens when you assume things.

...ouch...

It is not like any of us have a personal stake in this so just relax for a minute. Who is going after who or what they are doing behind closed doors has absolutly nothing to do with the rest of us. News like this really should not of even been posted in the first place since itt is not direct gaming news anyways.

The new expansion is good and the eye candy is well worth it. Eve continues to give us every expansion for free and you really can't say that about to many MMO's. Rock on CCP!

I'll agree with Terranah on this one, graphics are what people want. Good eye candy is always a welcome addition to good game play. But remember, good graphics are not the only thing that makes a great game. There are many examples of games with great graphics that just plain suck.

What I find interesging is the following quote:

[quote]We were also treated to a recent snapshot of the population distribution across the universe to see where players were spending their time. At the time the snapshot was taken, 78% of the population was in high security space, 13% were in low sec space, and only 9% were located in 0.0 space. This came as a bit of a surprise as Dr. Eyjo and many from the gathered crowd expected the number of players in 0.0 to be higher. Of course this was just a snapshot, and a single point on a graph is by no means indicative of a trend. With this in mind, Dr. Eyjo promised more snapshots in the future so we can get a better view of this emerging picture of EVE’s population.[/quote]

Most of the day to day trading that comes from the economy in Eve comes from .5 and above, where the people are. CCP still tries like hell to drive everyone out to 0.0 space. After 4 years of pushing, and failing, and then having reports like this, that you would think that they would get the hint and stop trying to cram 0.0 down everyones throats. We need more reports like this that prove that CCP is full of crap when they say most of the people are in 0.0 space.

As for what Atoh said, I agree 100%. There was a good CCP quote on that from Nathan Richards. He said that some of the most serious PVP battles were fought in Empire in 1.0 systems in the market. I could not agree more!

Best things to happen to the market to date was the intruduction of the contract system and the continued updating that they did to it. As they make more changes to it and make it better you will continue to see the economy flourish. Now if they just had that system in beta like they were supposed to, think of where the economyh would be today!

I would not say 90%. I would say 50% would be more accurate.

A perfect example is in this thread where a dev used an alt to ask questions after the 100 page thread where people were screaming at the devs for the latest changes.

FACTS:

1. CCP had already dedicated programmer time to put the plan in motion. They tipped their hand when their thread with a noob alt (that was actually a developer), was asking 'What do you use your capital ships for?'

2. Said changes were observed LIVE on SiSi less than 24 hours after that dev blog was released. In the Lawyer world, that's called INTENT.

3. After Zulupark was torn to shreds by the 110+ Page thread, they further wanted to gather information about capitals, and created a noob alt to start a different thread asking questions to answers that they should already know. This is once again CCP trying to force their vision of the game onto the players, and going against what the players have trained for already. The stupidity of them in this regard is just simply nothing short of staggering.

Now that the hornets nest has been stirred up to sufficient capacity so the bulk of the players that never post (the real EVE playerbase, not the SWG and WoW converts), or read the forums infrequently, know about it, and have rightfully voiced their concerns. Hopefully our collective voices (and wallets) have been heard, and they will do the right thing!

So 3rd party company is going to do some talking for CCP? This should be good.

I wonder if it is "how to be a dev and play the game unoticed" speech that is long overdue.

I have been playing the game for over 2 years now with multiple accounts. This game is well worth the time to learn and have fun with. If you are looking for a challenge that is not the normal grind then Eve Online is for you.

Maurauder - CEO - Orion's Forge http://orionsforge.guildportal.com