45 voted 73% is up for it can we get more :)

Come on people step up we can do this.........

Its time we make a stand for what we want to play.... As my sig says.. start worrying about what others play and why and dont just play :)

Originally posted by Rhavens

Originally posted by Skooma2

You are not going to  get as many people as you would like to sign  your petition.  The reason that most people play  themeparks rather than sanboxes is that it is really only a sandbox for people who have been playing since the beginning.  If  you are not there at the start, you are not entering a sandbox; you are entering a themepark world created by the players who were there before you.   It is no longer a sandbox for you because you will encounter a world created by others.

I don't agree (in a constructive way) with you. If we do a paralel with the real world, generations built the world before us and still, it constantly evolve. No one puts a path before me I must follow, I can choose whatever I want to do or wherever I want to go. A sandbox is as much a virtual world as it is a video game.

agree :). And we want that freedom back...

Originally posted by Skooma2

You are not going to  get as many people as you would like to sign  your petition.  The reason that most people play  themeparks rather than sanboxes is that it is really only a sandbox for people who have been playing since the beginning.  If  you are not there at the start, you are not entering a sandbox; you are entering a themepark world created by the players who were there before you.   It is no longer a sandbox for you because you will encounter a world created by others.

The thing is that we are not totaly happy with the sanboxes ourself. Or we would be playing them and be happy right? But I think there is a huge market for a sanbox hybrid. And I think many of you that are tired of the Clones.. would like to have more tools to effec the game world.

And that you cant effect a sanbox is just not true.. You dont have to be there at the start to make an Impact.

And this is a genral protest against the Industry for making Clone games and not trying something new and Innovationg. And for not trusting us to create things inside the game worlds. It a protest against putting everything On rails and forcing us to just ride along.. and be happy.

We need more sanbox feeling In MMOS or it will be like Wolfshead put it

If anything, this has made me pause to reflect about the current state of virtual MMOs and the unfortunate suicidal direction they are heading in — a virtual bridge to nowhere.

Those of us looking for a serious fantasy virtual world experience have few options. It’s like we are trapped a dark age where ancient knowledge has been lost and barbarism holds sway and I’m not the only one that believe this. I get letters from readers every week that lament the loss of what once was. Perhaps, while we still remember them, it’s time to draft a MMORPG manifesto and codify the noble principles and unswerving constants that many of us believe were hallmarks of the first golden age of this genre

Originaly by Wholfshead.. creative changes by Zlayer77 to avoid fanboying

Originally posted by Superduper69

Well i hope you can get enough players for protest. Even thought i doubt all 4 of you can make them think otherwise. Good luck.

hehe Well its more to see if people would do it. Get enough people and you can make a diffrence. But Whining on the forums havent got us anywere for the last 8 years.

If we want something new that is an A+ title we have to do something that takes notice. This goes for you themeparkers that are fed up with playing clone games also. Only way to get a new type of game is if we show that we are willing to go to Extremes to make that happen..

To be a bit more clear I would sugest that we do this In numbers and all sub at about the same time.. We pick the game and announce publicly  that we are subing and then we do it... If we get enough people onboard we can do this very organized... I think the time has come to fight back.. And the Only way to fight back is with Money this is the sad truth...

No longer are MMOs are created with the expectation that anything can happen. Those days are long past. If players were left to forge their own destinies it would result in chaos and conflict which would be unacceptable to the story obsessed new breed of video game designer who insists that every aspect of what a player does should be tightly controlled and scripted. You see, you as a player can’t be trusted.

Instead MMOs have become virtual sausage factories where the spectator-like player sits back and enjoys the ride. Game design has been reduced to process of crafting every moment of the player experience — nothing is left to chance — a philosophy that would make amusement park tycoon Walt Disney proud.

Wolfshead 11/2-2012

After reading Wolfsheads artical it has gotten me thinking Maybe We need to do a PROTEST SUB to a SANDBOX to show the Industry that this is the gameplay that we want. But we might not want that sanbox but we want the mechanics and we want Developers who we can Respect...

So Im asking here, all those of you WHO miss the old days should we pick one Sandbox game and all Sub to it for one Month in protest against the Industry for making brainless games without any challenge??

My sugestion is that we Subcribe to EvE online. Reason for this is that its up to date, it has by far one of the largest subscription numbers of the old games. And CCP might have done wrong a few times but they always OWN up to their misstakes.

But Im open to sugestions...

So the question is would you SUB to a sandbox game for 1 month in Protest!

Originally posted by dooming

I can sympathize.  I miss the "good ol'days" myself.  However, twenty years have passed.   What you're saying is akin to listening to Vanilla Ice [or Lil' Wayne or Eminem - take your pick] and getting upset that he doesn't sound like The Beatles. 

 

I think you are taking this a litte to far now.. what we are complaining about is that there is no Player vs player interaction, and no way to effect the Themeparks and that they are just build like SLOT machines.. with RIDES to keep people entertained.. But there are no tools to build our own Rides.. or make our own fun. Like it was in the good old days...

Originally posted by ElderRat

Originally posted by Zlayer77

And maybe its time you all Subed to EvE online.. who dont like were the industry is going. You dont have to play the game if you dont like it.. But you Pay them to show the Industry that more people want Sandbox games...

Maybe we should make a forum community have people sign up then we do some EvEnt thing were we all SUB to one Sandbox game. If we get enough people unboard the industry might take Interest..

That we are willing to pay for a game that we are not even playing just because we Hate what they are making.... But suport good Devs Like CCP for example that havent caved....jet...

Re: getting a bunch to sub to a sandbox - ok, I'm in... on a 1 paycheck a month thing so give me advance notice.  Oh... were you being sarcastic? Cause I like the idea.

No I wasent.. The thing is we need to organize it and make a comunity... THen Publicly Announce that we are now all subing..

Dream would be to get like 10k people or more to do it.. I think the mainstream media would take notice if enough people would come onboard for something like this.

Also stating that we could be playing there games if they just had what we wanted... Getting 100k people would bring about a change in the industry for sure... but Dont think we could ever get those numbers but who knows..

And maybe its time you all Subed to EvE online.. who dont like were the industry is going. You dont have to play the game if you dont like it.. But you Pay them to show the Industry that more people want Sandbox games...

Maybe we should make a forum community have people sign up then we do some EvEnt thing were we all SUB to one Sandbox game. If we get enough people unboard the industry might take Notice/Interest..

That we are willing to pay for a game that we are not even playing just because we Hate what they are making.... But suport good Devs Like CCP for example that havent caved....jet...

Originally posted by crysent

Hello,

After my lastest forray into SWTOR  I've finally had it with the genre.  That is, I can't really comprehend what's happened over the last 10 years or so.  Is this really all a result of WoW?  Is this the result of investors wanting the companies to play it 'safe'?  What has happened?

A little about me:  I started playing mmo's in 98 with Ultima Online, from there I went to Everquest, Asherons call, Shadowbane/DAOC and on and on.  I've played every single AAA mmo to have come out over the years as well as many smaller ones.  I've watched the genre go from extreme hardcore (Everquest 1 death penalty, Ultima online full loot) to theme parks with 3 or 4 battlegrounds.  PvP has clearly taken a 'min-game' type feel to it.  Death penaltys are long gone from most MMOs.  Real challenge is found in the form of raids that take entire days and are made up of min/maxers.

I guess I'm asking how the genre ended up here?  8 years or so ago when Star Wars Galaxies was released it was a full loot, merciless game...2 months ago when TOR was released it was a WoW clone with the Star Wars IP attached.  Even games with successful past as more hardcore games have taken the WoW route..Mythic is a prime example of this: DAOC with 3 factions and a massive end game open world pvp area was replaced by Batrtleground heavy and cartoonish Warhammer.  Lord of the Rings online could have had epic PvP with such a solid storyline, instead we get some strange monster play.

Rift is no different, its a WoW clone with a twist on professions.  Everquest 1 is another prime example, one of the most hardcore PvE games ever made was turned into a cartoony solo-friendly (and far less popular) Everquest 2.

I just don't understand.  It seems the demand is certainly there, and Guild Wars 2 shows lots of promise but why has it taken so long?   I look over the game list at left and all I see are WoW clones with different twists on the unimportant aspects.  The genre hasn't grown stale, it's been stale for the last 10 years.

A company like Bioware should have known better:  In the Star Wars universe which at its core is a story of good vs evil, dark vs light, Jedi vs Sith, we instead are given Huttball and a terrible designed small open world area where there is no death penalty and you can insta spawn and run right back into the fight.

So I guess I leave this with a few questions:  Why did the genre take this route? the route of safety, the route of WoW cloneing?  And more importantly, why do the gamers continue to support this?  (I'm as guilty as anyone)...Seemingly every new AAA game gets super uber hyped by the mmo community (just look at TOR) releases and is a major let-down.  Population tanks and that's that.  Rinse and repeat with the next MMO.

This is what happend....

"No longer are MMOs are created with the expectation that anything can happen. Those days are long past. If players were left to forge their own destinies it would result in chaos and conflict which would be unacceptable to the story obsessed new breed of video game designer who insists that every aspect of what a player does should be tightly controlled and scripted. You see, you as a player can’t be trusted.

Instead MMOs have become virtual sausage factories where the spectator-like player sits back and enjoys the ride. Game design has been reduced to process of crafting every moment of the player experience — nothing is left to chance — a philosophy that would make amusement park tycoon Walt Disney proud."

- Wolfshead

Sausage factories that is what we are left with 8 years after WoW release... People did warn us though.. Myself Included we have been complaining for years now.. but Im glad more of you are waking up... I think it might be time for us to "RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE".... Stand up and fight!!!!

Originally posted by rexzshadow

I seriously don't get what there is to cry about, entire time i played on PvP server and that was like 12hr on first day, 14 hrs on second and like other 14hrs on 3rd i barely ever got pked. People need to learn to travel in group, i was always with a friend. And even if you do get pked so what? I found it exciting to suddenly have random pvp while questing. Honestly there isn't much people camping areas so its normally 1 death and you can go back not bad at all. And ya i had people complaining you can't click your skills XD

I was just pointing out that the VIDEOS really are true to what is happening in the game.. The crying IN CBT 1 EU was EPIC.. so many who could not handle it. I get a mental Image of the larpers as soon as I read people posting negativ stuff about this game... That is all I see and ROFL.. at them....

Thats also the stance we should put against whiners and trolls... Trust me we dont need to defend this game with anything but. "hoo you dont like it you must be a baby who likes playing baby games".

This game will have bugs and it will lack PvE content but I really dont care because Im there for the PvP....

People that dont play or dont like the game are WEAK... This stance has worked great defending EVE for ages now... And the trolls have stoped... No fun saying negative things about a game and getting told you dont have the balls to play......

Bugs are a challenge, not enough gameplay is a challenge.. grinding is way more fun then Questing.. cutscence and story are for people who are to lazy to think for themselves... Animation timers are in every fighting game in existance.. A good street fighter player will beat the crap out of a bad one Because he knows all timers... People who actually play these games competativly Know this.....

Originally posted by Daveykz

Faded has a nice review just from all the CBT. Things will change and progress and the game will be a lot better come release. I think people's problems, once again, is that they want the new MMO to come out that will be top of the charts right from the get-go, and when people have constructive criticism that hints that this new MMO they're looking forward to won't be that steady game they're looking for, it makes them mad.

My own opinion is this: I was in the beta for a lot of these AAA MMOs that have recently come out, and I never bothered to buy one. That doesn't mean a whole lot of people aren't having fun and will continue to have fun in these MMOs. It's just that I am also looking forward to an MMO that will be a steady #1 for a long while and I haven't played it yet.

peoples Problem is that they cant handle getting Griefed inside the game.

If you dont play this game and whine about it you are a cry baby...

All of us that play EvE online just LOL at the people who bitch about it, because we know they cant handle it..

Same goes with TERA, If you whine you get no cred from me because you are WEAK and can only play E-sport games..

Cacoon of refrechment sorry just dont fly in this game...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZwcyJY9eEw&feature=youtu.be

TERA players ARE BAS and you are babies playing baby games.. That is FACT.. just dig it.... we cant all be COOL....

Going by all the crying on the offical webbsite from people who got facestomped inside the game I think the Adverts are true to what the game is. I never seen so many cry babies in a game before... All the little themepark avrage joe casuals crying for RULES and REGULATIONS...

Game is really FUN.. and the best part are all the Carebears who are getting steamrolled. LOL welcome to true PvP combat...

To many people think they know what PvP is.. but they never played EVE or MORTAL or LINEAGE2 so infact they have zero clue. The log into a PvP server and when the Truth hits them that OMG 10 people just ran over me and there was nothing I could do but die and get LoLed at for playing solo.. the TEARS that follow are epic..

maybe we should rename TERA =TEARS Online instead.. hahaha

Looking at how slow they are fixing things, just going by what I read on the offical forums, I would say they are now on a operating with a skeleton crew... As the game slowly dies they still make money... And they are not putting much back in...

quote from BIO devs:

“Now that we’ve learned MMOs are really easy to make, and simple to run after the fact, we’re on it!” Dr. Zeschuk said, laughing. “The interesting thing, the implication of a Mass Effect MMO has so many expectations. We already bit off a big thing to chew with a Star Wars MMO, and that’s not so small,” he said. "

Just face it you all got played...

Originally posted by kb056

EA to Elevation Partners, they create VG holdings.

 

He goes back to EA and buys VG Holdings.

 

Ive played the game for 2+ months, feels like an Indy game after 4-5 Dev time just hitting Alpha testing.

 

EA stockholders were scammed along with everyone else who bought this game. It was meant to fail.

Or the key was to sell a shitload of boxes. We dont know what the game cost... They might have allready gotten their money back...

That is how I would have done it. Make a cheap game, market the shit out of it.. sell 2,2m boxes and make a nice return profit. If you then happen to get a few people say 1,7m to sub for it for 2 months that is another 30+ dollars per player... Just extra gravy on the plate...

That is what I think they did...

Originally posted by dubyahite
"I too agree with you that if the ME universe is turned into a SWTOR-line themepark it'll ruin the ME IP as a whole, but as always that's simply my opinion :)."



What about mass effect says sandbox to you? It is a linear story based game and doesn't resemble a sandbox at all.

You are saying "if they don't make this franchise that is entirely based on linear story based gameplay a sandbox it will ruin the entire franchise!"


Doesn't make sense. If they make it a sandbox they will be straying far far away from the franchise.

If you play mass effect, you are playing a linear story based game. There is nothing about it that is sandbox.

Many sanbox games are to sandboxy... The death penelties might have to be tuned down etc. BUT FREEDOM is what people want and a chanse to Plant roots in the game world. Also if you get people to plant ROOTS they stay. Im going to bring up farmville here. People like that game because they build stuff in it. They get glowing pigs... New houses etc... People like to build stuff in games. They also like the freedom.. That means taking it on your own pace and being able to do what you want.. Like SKYRIM for example. Its not a sandbox but it gives the player freedom to do what he wants when he want within the limitation of the game. I think mass effect works a little the same? you can do side things? or am I wrong? That is were the sandbox feeling comes in. It dosent take much to make it sandboxy. But the Rewards are great, as people have alot of things to do in OFF hours.. When there is nothing happening people can still feel that are doing something... instead of spaming LFG for the next raid... they might be putting designs on Armour or making dresses or watering thier Virtual Garden.. and getting those Rare Roses they want... you follow me :). Or they might be brewing that special Beer for thier Tavern for the evning when there will be a COOL RP event etc.. People need TOOLS to feel part of the world.. and gettting people alot of TOOLS to build and create is a good thing.. Minecraft?? Farmvill?? and other mini games what do they have incomon.. you craft things to expand... Nothing is stopinp modern developers from bringing stuff like this into the MMO market....

Key to a future game is giving players more freedom and getting people to fiddle around with stuff ingame.. Also GIRLS LIKE TO do off story things. And were GIRLS GO SO DO BOY's..

So a future game needs a system to make people form ROOTS inside the game and build community and it needs farmville stuff that girls like and you have Success!!!! that is what I belive.. A pure sanbox might not make it but some sort of Hybrid will be a HUGE HIT!!

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by Bainwalker

If they take a TPS / FPS style RPG like ME and turn it into a themepark MMO I will forever hate them for tainting a good IP.

 

ME should remain a gun game (TPS / FPS) and be a sandbox.  Anything less would destroy my personal vision of what playing ME means.

 

Hell SWTOR should have been a sandbox as well.

An opinion, apparently, that 1.7million other people don't share (albeit that was months ago they had those numbers). However, I'm curious as to the number of sandbox players that are waiting in the rafters for a truly good sandbox MMORPG. However, only small underfunded indie companies have been developing sandboxes because huge AAA companies don't want to "Gamble" anymore on products. They want surefire-win products, and will dumb them down as far as they need to in order to make a profit. However, just because 1.7million people (again, months ago) don't agree doesn't mean the opinion is invalid.

 

A case of corporatism invading the MMO market unfortunately, but that's how anything successful goes :(.

 

I too agree with you that if the ME universe is turned into a SWTOR-line themepark it'll ruin the ME IP as a whole, but as always that's simply my opinion :).

 

-Faded

I also think that a lot of the current themepark market would Jump on a more sandboxy game. Because lets face it they have like us played the Themeparks to death. But old games like EvE online just are 2 sandboxy.. what we need is someone to be a smart as Blizzard was. And steel all the good stuff from sanboxes "freedom being the top thing to take" and make a new Gen MMO. This will be the hit of the future.  That is what I truly belive...

Originally posted by ElderRat

Originally posted by MadnessRealm

Originally posted by ElderRat

   Turn-on's... uhm, errr... well.  I guess EVE is the only game where I have had the feeling that doom could descend on me at anytime. I like to mine in EVE and you never know when a well-organized team might come in and sacrifice a ship to kill off your barge.  I love and hate that feeling - which in a crazy way makes it a turn on.

 

I come from a similar background - FFA PvP Full Loot MMORPGs. I can enjoy themepark games, but "hardcore" (I don't like that word) sandbox is where the real fun is at for me as well. I generally play as Dedicated Crafter, or PK/PKK. The risk factor of losing everything just keeps you on the edge of your seat all the time, it's quite fun.

I think I am slowly talking myself into playing EVE again.  I am old and it raises my blood pressure but it really satisfies me more than any other game. It also frustrates me and makes me want to kill people.. drag them screaming out into the night but hey... it is not tame and so many games are.  That's a turn on.

 

EvE is the MMO that REAL MMORPG players go to Retire.. Its like FLORIDA.. dont all the senior citizense go there :).

Sad truth though we will probably be playing EvE online 30 years from now, because there is nothing coming out that appeals to us old vets...

You are not alone.....many of us feel like this.. only the developers dont or wont see it...

I guess there is a reason we dont see any Open world designed games anymore.. Sadly I think it has more to do with $ then with the creativity among devs going down..  More money in the Themepark...

Originally posted by dubyahite
Also, if you think violence is the solution to games being made that aren't to your liking, you should seek professional help.

I am not trying to insult you, but if that is seriously what you believe, you are a danger to others and need to be treated for mental disorders.

I was talking the FUTURE HERe.. taking EvE online as an example. If you read up on what happend this summer you know what im talking about. This is the first baby step. But as people get more and more into gaming it will start to effect IRL more and more.

Look at the avrage Soccer game in Europe.. you have rabbid fans Rioting in the streets and fighting. Soccer is the Old games, what people did for FUN back in the day when there was no computers and no television etc. And these days people take thier teams so seriously that they go out and try and kill one another.. Is this Rational? NO. But is it a fact of the world we live in? YES. And as games become more and more mainstream.. It would not surprise me if I see RiOTS in the streets 20 years from now when a game comes out and the FANS are unhappy... that is what I was getting at here...