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All Posts by aRtFuLThinG

All Posts by aRtFuLThinG

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Originally posted by k61977

It's pretty much pay to craft as others have said.  Without being able to own a farm you will take 2 or 3 times as long to get things unless you are willing to buy off AH at inflated prices.  A patron could let you use their farm but I don't see many people doing that as they wouldn't be able to plant stuff.

Not to mention that the labor point regen is really nice for patrons. 

Actually in a guild a lot of patron does that as they don't have enough labor points to manage their own farms most of the time.


Labor pots have cooldowns.


Patron regen is faster but NOT so fast that you won't use it up very quickly.


You are totally ignoring the fact also that crafting consume HUGE amounts of labor - all I have to do is craft 1 set of armor and I will be down 1000+ labor easily. After I craft one or 2 sets of armor I can pretty much forget about working my farms because I won't have the labor points to do it.


Sharing farm usage and profits with your family is pretty much required if you want to use labor in any productive way.

Originally posted by Hrimnir
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Hrimnir

So, basically from reading this thread, the impression i'm getting is that ArcheAge basically operates the same way as farmville and all of those ridiculous facebook games, in so much as, you get a certain number of spendable "credits" (or whatever they term the spendable unit)  every hour or every 24 hours or whatever.  Which you use to purchase things in game, whether its land, stuff to put on the land, etc,  but if you want to pay for more of these said credits, you can, and then you dont have to wait.

Explain to me how thats not the definition of pay to win?


Because you get given a set amount of labour points just for having an account. These labour points are no different than the ones you buy if you want to go faster. 

These labour potions are also tradable in game, meaning that if you have the gold you can buy them through playing. It takes me about two 8 min trade runs to earn the gold for a potion. Hence you gain them by playing the game.

Want to buy a sub? Earn the gold easily in game by playing. want to buy anything from the cash shop? Earn the gold easily in game by playing.

How is this pay to win?

A more casual player using a labour potion on a 11 hour cool down has no more advantage over me as a more dedicated player having spent around 15 mins to earn the gold to buy the same potion.


You don't use labour points to purchase land btw, you use gold. Gold is easily obtainable and flows freely if you make the effort to earn it.



You must be joking right. You literally just defined pay to win.

MMO's are about progression, progression is typically measured either in A. Time Spent in game (see EVE skill points), or B. Gear+Levels.

The difference is, gear and levels take time to acheive, so anything that allows you to circumvent that time requirement is by definition pay to win.

The "but you can earn it in game if you do X or Y" is a completely bunk argument that has been shot full of holes about three million times over.  I seriously don't understand why people still play that card, its embarassing.

If paying money allows you to get ahead of someone who is NOT able to pay the money, then its pay 2 win, thats simply all there is to it.

But if you are not even paying the money (to be a patron) then how are you even a customer of the game?


If you a not a customer why should Trion cater for you might I ask? They have already gave you an opportunity to earn your way even though you are NOT a customer at all. I think that's already pretty generous.


Patron status is a very, very basic requirement...

They are not exactly selling you epic gears through cash AFTER you subscribed here.  If that was the case than that would been "pay 2 win"; however, it is not the case.

Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG

You can spend gold and buy labor pots from auctioneer (current market price of around 6-7g). It is just a question of whether to can make the labor pot worth the gold being spent is all.

If you pop it and use the labor points to run 10 trade pack runs than the 6-7g spent on the points is pretty much nothing for you.


You get it.

Anyone that doesn't make a labour pot pay for itself pay for itself multiple times over just by playing the game needs to stop telling others 'how it is' and start asking others how to play.


No game is pay to win when gold is so easy to come by, and that gold can access everything in the cash shop via the AH and Apex.


No one I play with even pays for their patron status with real money... We all buy it via playing.

Exactly. This game is very much about Labor Points management in terms of the trading aspects of it.


I do think that you are right also when you mention that this is a game about being part of the community - even if you did the land grab at the start and got several large farms running there is no way that you'll ever have enough labor points to run all of them without a few others that don't have land using their labor to help you manage it and share the profits.


Numbers matter, that's why guilds seems to be much more sizable in this game compare to others.

Originally posted by jmcdermottuk
Originally posted by kartool
Originally posted by intrinsc
In Pay 2 Win you typically gain a significant advantage over others by paying for things in a game store. This is true in ArcheAge. Pay 2 Win gives you crafting materials easily which translates to BIS equipment, etc. Whomever says this isn't P2W is either delusional, an extreme fanboy, or just isn't clear about what the definition is. In a game where resources means EVERYTHING and a huge pvp advantage can be gained from getting access to resources more easily and readily, and a game where you can only have housing by being a patron, it is the very definition of P2W.

I look at it this way. If your'e not paying anything to play a game - the developer has no reason to cater to you.  It's like complaining you wanted two slices of cheese on your free cheeseburger at a grand opening of a hardware store. You're only there for the free shit anyway and never plan on supporting said hardware store. If you like the game but don't like the f2p model then pay for a sub or find another game. It really is that simple. 

I agree with this in theory but in this case it's not that simple. What if I pay for patron status and get my labour points regenerating at a faster pace but don't buy LP pots? I'm paying to play so that meets your basic requirement that the dev should cater to me.

The guy next to me also pays for patron but then throws a ton of extra money at them for LP pots and gets to craft, loot, farm more than me, makes better gear faster, levels faster and as a direct result gains an advantage in PvP.

That is pay to win. The PvP element of the game makes it pay to win. If it were a purely PvE game I wouldn't call it pay to win because now he's just getting to end game content quicker, that wouldn't affect me. However, seeing as one day he might decide to bitch slap me around in his nice new uber gear, he is winning a fight with me because he paid.


It has been argued that this advantage is only temporary, but it's still an advantage.

You can spend gold and buy labor pots from auctioneer (current market price of around 6-7g). It is just a question of whether to can make the labor pot worth the gold being spent is all.


If you pop it and use the labor points to run 10 trade pack runs than the 6-7g spent on the points is pretty much nothing for you.


If you are not a patron then I don't even talk about why you even need labor pots in the first place.

I don't see how patron status is "pay 2 win", considering the fact that if you are planning to play this game for anything more than a month you SHOULD be subbing as patron.


Otherwise you are not even a customer (since the game costs nothing to download)


If you are NOT a customer, then why would you even expect to have anything close to equal terms to paying customers? You shouldn't even get support imo.


They are a business. This game is meant to make them money (at least enough to make a living off it). This is their livelihood. I don't understand why do some people expect them to provide you with free entertainment? They do need to eat too, you know.


Imagine if people say you should work for free because you give better services to paying customers and therefore these people are "pay to win"


Just sub if you are planning to play the game for any length of time.


Also, the cash shop doesn't really offer anything powerful that you can't really get from within the game itself (labor pots can be purchased from auctioneer and tax certs can be generated from farms/properties using labor, and if don't have land, you don't really need either).


Funny how on pvp OP only mentions 5v5 arenas...


Arenas is not even the main point if pvp in this game. In fact, most people don't even play it for that.


People play this for faction/guild wars, building keeps and sieges, and pirating on high seas.

Yes, but I think people (and OP especially) is forgetting that credit card payment and banking has a lot of costs.


It maybe invisible to you but not to the people running the game. Setting up transaction systems can cost them a lot.


So there is a problem with MMO I think that sub cost can't be too low (after including all other costs such as servers, datacenters, staffs etc) otherwise they will lose money to transaction fees.


I suspect $5 month is probably the lowest any company can go for monthly subs, if they can pay for the other overheads and still make some profits at that price.

Originally posted by Nergle

Just wondering will Tielflings and Drow be available as a player race in Pathfinder?

Thinking about pledging and this would be a major decision swayer for me.



I think it will being with Humans, Dwarves and Elves according to this:


Tieflings and drow aren't even major races in the Pathfinder lore though

Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by LacedOpium


All servers are full with many with queues ranging in the hours to get in.  All areas in the game are packed with everyone having a good time.  The OP wants to understand what everyone is seeing because everyone is having fun and he isn't.  The fact of the matter is, you can't force yourself to like something.  You either you like it, or you don't.  Sometimes you just have to accept the fact that others are having fun and you aren't, and move on.

How can everyone be having a free time when the OP isn't?  Or did you mean a specific everyone?

Don't know, maybe the OP is busy? lol

Caught me.  Meant to be "fun" but stupid autocorrect on iPad.

Now we know what Apple autocorrect thinks fun means ;) Gotta remember that next time I go and buy an iPad

Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by LacedOpium


All servers are full with many with queues ranging in the hours to get in.  All areas in the game are packed with everyone having a good time.  The OP wants to understand what everyone is seeing because everyone is having fun and he isn't.  The fact of the matter is, you can't force yourself to like something.  You either you like it, or you don't.  Sometimes you just have to accept the fact that others are having fun and you aren't, and move on.

How can everyone be having a free time when the OP isn't?  Or did you mean a specific everyone?

Don't know, maybe the OP is busy? lol

Originally posted by laokoko

Some players play mmorpg to fight big dragons.

Some palyersr play mmorpg for arena combat.

Some players play mmorpg to gank people.

And some like mmorpg because of their deep economy... (like you)

Quite honestly, I hate mmorpg with a deep economy, because usually that just turn in to harvest(grind) wars.  Or flipping wars, where merchant rule the game.

Merchants running the game is a GOOD thing imo.


Commerce is the only thing in MMO, from my experience of playing them, that really binds the players together and creates a microcosm of social interactions in MMO.


Interactions between players and the need to form associations and alliances seems to reduce significantly in games where commerce are not important at least in some way, and technically to me that defeats the purpose of even playing an MMO.


I could play Diablo 3 and get loots if all I wanted to play is a loot game.

Originally posted by Azaron_Nightblade

To be honest, every MMO community has jerks like those. =/

And it seems like the devs are aware of the problems at least, here's a post from today's dev tracker:

Of course I'm not sure if those are related to the OP's problems, or something else entirely.


You mean this?


Originally posted by AG-Vuk

Sorry , your links show no pattern and relate to different issues. I would also ask , before you come on and say it's Bioware or any other Dev that you state that your system is operating properly , router is functioning properly and the network provider has checked and verified there are no issues. I've experienced similar issues only to learn it was a failing router. Not saying that's the case or implying it. Just asking that you state the case that you are in fact positive that the issue is on there end. I've walked several guild members through issues that affected gameplay. Some simple. Some more complicated. Clarity in stating your case or problem is your friend.


Lol perfect timing


Originally posted by Maelwydd

Presenting inaccurate information or outright lying about a game seems to be condoned here.

I think TS you got to take into context sometimes on what is "the truth".


Opinions are not truth. They are not facts. On the flipside they are also not necessarily lies either unless they try to present it as facts. Even then, it might be a matter of perspective or deduced from information using sources differing from yours.


So you shouldn't always be so confident and debate it with them as if they are "lying". For all we know their intentions may be sincere and that's sincerely what they know from what source they get the information from.


Best way to debate a case is through concisely presenting a list of reasoning and source of your information so that the opposite side can do the same. If they cannot do so it will automatically paint them in a bad light anyways. No need to argue unless it becomes personally offensive.

I think what TS experiencing are actually the gold farmers.


If you look at the names of the toons that tags those mobs you'll notices that they are randomly generated names, and also they have not guild affliation and all their specs are some weird off-specs (range, healing and tanky) because they can keep fighting mobs indefinitely with those specs. They bot their gold farmers that's why they tags the mob so damn fast.


If I see those bots farming in a pvp zone I usually go bloodlust and kill them with my group so everyone in the area can quest. It is even more obvious that they are bots once you go bloodlust on them - they still keep tagging mobs instead of fighting you or running away or at least yell at you, and they don't rez once they die for a while (because they are bots they didn't notice that they died until they get around check on it).


So I encourage anyone who sees bots to just kill them so everyone can quest.

Originally posted by TiamatRoar
The % of PVP by itself doesn't matter.  What matters is the IMPORTANCE of whatever % the PvP occupies ("Importance" being if you need to go through PvP risk or PvP for the next upgrade to your gear, and importance of what else there is to do at "end-game" at all if the PvE content gets completed).  Which, for Archeage, is huge at the upper end.

Actually that's not true.


Because crafted items are all tradable you don't even have to risk pvp to get gear. You'll just have to be very good at saving and earning good (ie. be a good businessman in game pretty much).


And crafted gears are the top dogs in this game.


You only have do a lot of pvp IF you are planning to be providing everything for yourself, which is silly, since this is a game that focuses on commerce and guild effort.


I reckon AA is good enough for what it is for me to want to patron it, that's all that matters - since there is no other games out there at the moment of this sandpark nature (Darkfall and MO is just too far to the pvp side and has too little concern with commerce)


AA I think engages players who likes a game that favours commercial activities, since pretty much everything, while has pvp, is basically about commerce (trading, piracy, land ownership, crafting, keep ownership which is basically war over resources, crafted items being better than looted items, etc).


If someone don't like commerce or resource management type of games and just like kill kill kill and get loots then AA is not really your cup of tea.


Personally, I like commercial activities in mmo. I think commerce is the soul of mmo (which is why many games since EQ and SWG pre-NGE has been unable to capture).



So "titan" did "fall"


I guess Microsoft was right on this one, lol

Originally posted by
Originally posted by olepi

I'm basing my estimate on the current playerbase and market. There are millions of players playing dozens of games, perhaps 100 million. But few players in open world PvP games. None of those games has broken into the top tier (meaning millions of subs), ever.

If 60% are ok with open PvP as you claim, why are only a few percent playing games with open world PvP? And why are there no top tier AAA developers making games like that? 60% of the lowball estimate of 100 million MMO players would be 60 million, but I bet there are fewer than 1 million actually playing an open world PvP game.

There has to be a reason, and that's because there are only a few percent of people who want to play that type of game. 60% might be ok with optional PvP, like DAOC or ESO, and I would believe that 30% just don't want PvP at all.

Even 5% of the 100 million playerbase would be 5 million subs, and I will be amazed if AA can stabilize above 1/2 million.

I would say 80 + % of AA doesn't involve open world pvp  .....not sure where  some folks get their numbers from , but I'd be safe to bet folks that don't even care about optional pvp found in games like ESO , GW2 and even perhaps DAOC will be able to find a comfort level in playing AA

Exactly. I would say only about 40% of the important areas are pvp related. Even than, most of it are avoidable about 20% of the time (since that's how often most of those areas have peace periods where no pvp is possible).


It is actually quite pve friendly, for a pvp game.

Originally posted by MightyUnclean
Originally posted by xenorace


Overall the games ok, but the community makes the game not very enjoyable IMO. If the community levels out and is less toxic, more cooperative the game would be good, but as it is now it's just one big eye roll.

I'm afraid that as people start murdering each other more and more as the game goes on, things will just get less civil.  I don't have any evidence for this, just a worry I have.  It's kinda kept me out of the game.  I know that I can turn off the various channels, but then I feel like I'm missing out on a big part of the MMO experience.

I don't even feel 1/2 the time murdering and ganking was a big point of contention in chat in the game.


In fact, most of it was about uprooting trees.


Rarely do I see a pvp on trial that has long sentences. It is the uprooting trees guys that do, lol.

I don't recall anyone ever saying publicly that it was.


I don't even recall anyone even saying that AA will be a "WoW beater".


I only recall people said the above about SWTOR but that died in flames, obviously lol - when it turns out that it is not half the game that WoW is. In fact, it isn't even half the game that GW2 is. In fact, it isn't even going to be 1/2 the game that AA will be lol.

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