Not THAT desperate! xD

Thanks, though.

FOR PC: I know when BETA 3 starts, which is June 14th - not heard of a PHASE 4, but I know that Aug 27th is the release date.

Close enough? ;D

Looked like Borderlands sans the humor / cartoony, cell-shaded graphics.

Considering what we've seen from Destiny, it looks a lot like Borderlands with all its dungeon crawling, loot, enemy levels, and talent trees - and I don't know about you guys, but Borderlands' actual gameplay got boring to me after a couple of hours .. and it was the tongue-in-cheek nature of the plot that kept me going.

It didn't appeal to me one bit. Nothing particularly new, just a reskin of an old game I never really liked.

I'm sure all of them also had tons of jumping puzzles, dynamic events, WvW all with an actual physics engine at release.

In WvW Elementalists are damage dealers, no question. In dungeons Elementalist damage is not so hot. And their heals and support come from the combo fields plus its own and other team mates blast finishers.

Of course in WvW there is strategy, although you were just following the commander.

In WoW all the classes are resumed to 3 roles with different skins.

For example I can replace a druid with a panda or a paladin and pretty much everyone else will play the same.

Could you explain to me what physics engine, exactly, that GW2 uses.. and to what it applies to in-game? I haven't seen anything remotely dependent on this.

Whenever a thread about GW2 starts, I can always count on one of two people being in it.

I was not disappointed.

On topic: The story, both in implementation and quality, I found absolutely dreadful. And that's not a rip on GW, as I find pretty much every modern MMO's story rather bland and tasteless. That said, Guild Wars 2's personal stories ( I've done all the starting variations ) were entirely unimaginative and had absolutely no impact on my immersion. I'd much prefer there be NO personal story.

Because a thread like this, with its obviously controversial title and clearly bias OP, is clearly looking for a well-rounded argument and not just a circle jerk of like-minded individuals. Isn't that what the GW2 forums are for? 

I don't recall any MMO devs who've directly accredited ArenaNet / GW2 as their source of inspiration, like many still do for World of Warcraft. A lot of people in this thread act like, because a game has one or two similar features, that they directly took it from GW2 (which, let's be honest, has done NOTHING original and ONLY adapted already established mechanics) while never even considering that - just maybe - the companies have had these ideas since development began.

MMOs aren't made in a matter of minutes. GW2 hasn't been out long enough to call it the most influential anything. Period.

This topic is just a bunch of hopes and well-wishes - and a lot of flaming back and fourth. I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked yet.

Originally posted by Koukikid

Have you checked out Otherland yet? Based off of the novels of Tad Williams

Unfortunately it is published by Gamingo so kinda have to wait and see how it plays out.

 

That looks alright. Unfortunately, I've never heard of Gamingo - and reasearch did't make me feel any better about the game.

I had never heard of those games. That's pretty neat!

But yes, I was speaking specifically in the AAA realm of MMOs. Is it really the lack of interest? Last I recall Deus Ex sold pretty successfully.

Lately, we've been treated to a plethora of fantasy MMOs. To be honest, there's no point in even listing them as they're pretty much the staple of most RPGs in general.  Why haven't we seen a legitimate attempt at cyberpunk in an MMO? Games like Deus Ex and Cyberpunk are rich with lore and character progression in unique ways. How come we haven't seen something similar?

*^{Note: I am not suggesting Deus Ex or Cyberpunk be transformed into an MMO. Those are merely examples.}

Thoughts, ideas?

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Khebeln

 

Uhh yeah, but only in set of best gear and perfect control of your character by everyone in your group. Voice coms help as well.

Gw2 dungeons are chaotic and no mater how much ppl will say get over it or others can do it etc, wont fix this.

I have 500h+ played (majority of it runing dungeons)

Right now im waiting for more content as pvp as fun as it is mechanics wise its not motivating enough to do it.

which is my favorite part.. in games i played in the past like Rift once you know the mechanics of a dungeon it's the same exact fight over and over with people doing the same exact things over and over gets really boring after a couple runs imho now saying that gw2 dungeons have mechanics as well which make it a ton easier but still has that element of chaos that makes them that much more fun.

Your statement makes no sense because, regardless of the perceived "chaos", the mobs / bosses are still only performing a limited script of actions. Therefore, you're pretty much ALWAYS doing the same thing over-and-over again; however, in GW2 you're much more likely to die because the aggro mechanics are practically non-existant.

"Chaos" has nothing to do with dungeons getting stale. It's still the same dungeon, it's still the same bosses, and they still perform the exact same moves.

Your reply is humorous because this patch was initiated to combat the speed-runners. Saying you don't care about why the patch was put it out, then complaining that people don't like it, is essentially getting your feathers ruffled for absolutely no reason.

If you don't care about the speed-runners, then go do your monotonous dungeons for an entirely unsubstantial reward and claim it was totally "fun".

The sheer fact this game has SO much grinding, and that ANET is dead-set on making the grind as insufferable as possible, doesn't bode well for the future. So far, they've done nothing but make decisions that are entirely anti-casual, anti-fun, and all for what? Allegedly, to keep farmers from ruining their precious economy.

Originally posted by eggy08

Originally posted by C1d0s

Originally posted by eggy08

Originally posted by C1d0s

Originally posted by xpiher

 

---

Originally posted by C1d0s

---

Originally posted by wowfan1996

---

Originally posted by Xiaoki one of the anti-farming measures is to give you diminishing returns for rewards from a dungeon run if you complete the dungeon in less than 30 minutes

---

You gotta punish players for doing their job well. Brilliant.

---

How else are you supposed to teach them how to play? Since GW1, it's been pretty clear the Devs only care about enforcing their ideas of "fun" and "fair" by forcing particular builds, making artifically difficult PVE content, and simply pigeon holing over all. Don't expect anything different from GW2. They're trying so hard to be different than WoW that they're forgetting what made it a massive success in the first place. As they're making these terrible decisions, all they're clinging to is "Oh, yeah, we intended it that way. You're playing wrong! At least it's NOT Warcraft. RIGHT? AM I RIGHT?"

---

Explain hightlight please. If you are going to make a make statements like these you should explain it.

 

 

---

Originally posted by wowfan1996

---

Originally posted by xpiher You clearly don't play the game.

---

I do. But if ANet won't revert the changes I probably won't stay for long though.

---

 

 

While I haven't done every dungeon, the ones I've done without deaths have all taken longer than 30mins to complete (each boss taking 5 mins + travel time + kill extra mobs). If you are doing it in under 30mins, you are stoping at some point and going back. ANET doesn't want you doing that because it imbalances reward to time ratio. Easy way to circumvent it is by doing a little bit more content or swap between dungeons.
 

Teaching the players how to play is quite self-explanatory. They're modifying the game in a way to promote their version of play, instead of how the actual customers prefer. Regardless of designer's intention, players will find a playstyle that suits them - it doesn't matter if it was what the Devs had in mind. This has been true since the dawn of MMO's.

GW2 being so different from WoW, to me, is also pretty obvious. The WHOLE time it was being promoted, from beta to all the other PR events, it was hailed as something revolutionary and entirely different that what was already on the market. IE - Big dog on the block: WOW. Since then, that's all everyone can talk about:

"OMG, DOES THIS SO MUCH BETTR.", " SO DFFRNT FROM WOW", "LOL WOW BABY", "SO GUD. BETTER THAN WOW"

And yet ANET hasn't done absolutely nothing but continue to turn it into GW1, what with arificially difficult dungeons, anti-farm codes, and forcing players ( the elite, supposively ) to utilize particular classes, with certain weapons and traits to run dungeons for tokens so that they can get pretty-looking skins. Let's not forget also how many times you have to run these pitiful things just to get a single piece of gear, combined with how buggy and down-right broken most of them are - on top of the now reduced reward and inflated difficulty. Half of the dungeon tactics revolve around: "DODGE RED CIRCLE, KITE, KITE, KITE" anyway. I hardly see how that's any different or more fun than anything else we've been taught over our years of MMO-gaming.

"Oh, that boss with a stupid amount of health and no mechanics was boring? Okay, instead of reducing his health and giving a few abilities that might actually make you sweat.. we'll just tack-on a bunch of untested mechanics and INCREASE his already astounding healthpool so that, not only do you have to stick on a single mob for 45 minutes, but also run around dodging 15 different, buggy mechanics. -- Also, he'll go invulnerable from time-to-time. We don't know why, but who cares! It's more fun this way. Trust us! Just L2P and you'll be fine."

At least in Warcraft, the grind wasn't excruciatingly mind-numbing without reward. Hell, you could even do whatever dungeons you preferred to get your rewards thanks to universal tokens / points. You could even be ANY CLASS IN THE GAME, WITH ANY SPEC and still contribute effectively.

So much for being grind-less, casual friendly, and ultra revolutionary ANET.

Your a fool to think that they are doing it just to make players play in "their way". This is a fix for players who want to experience everything and gripe about the fact that all they can get groups for are easy dungeons with easy and quick paths. Once you get the gear from all that gold you accumulated, you're still never going to get to experience the other paths because noone will want to do them. They aren't teaching people anything, they are just making other paths viable.

Other paths viable? You do understand that, regardless of how many locks or difficulty patches they release, players will still find the easiest and fastest-completed dungeon to run to maximze their efforts, right? If you think ANYTHING else, then it's YOU who's the fool.

It would be different if half the other paths in this game weren't mind-numblingy long, boring, or BROKEN ENTIRELY. Heaven forbid players actually want to break even when leaving dungeons, what with getting sneezed on by enemy mobs seeming to reduce your armor to shreds.

I'm not saying they won't want to, but at least it forces players to step back and think a little. You can say all you want about the gold farmers who take the path, but if you give little reason not to take the farm path, then why would the average player not take it. It's literally impossible to force anyone to take the other path without putting on a lock like other games, and since they never started with one, I doubt they will make it now.

Its like looking at the difference between buying a already made pizza versus making one yourself. You can easily agree that the already made pizza takes far less work than the self made. In the end, you still get the pizza right? Same rewards. But sadly over time, the self made pizza will cost far less due to certain factors. If this wasn't in place, who would bother making a pizza, they would instead always buy the already made pizza. Some people enjoy making pizza, it can be its own reward for getting to experience it for the first time. But the average person doesn't want to do extra work if he there is no tradeoff for buying the already made pizza and having to put no effort into it.

I'm not saying that every person will want to do every path nor bother to not do the easy path everytime anyway. All I'm saying is that if there is no tradeoff to doing the easy path, then the people who want to experience everything else will never get that chance.

The trade-off? You have to be joking.

There is no trade-off, like, at all. They did't make dungeon paths any more appealing than before; in fact, all they did was enforce their intended method of dungeoning.

All that's going to happen now is that the speed-runners are going to pick the TWO easiest pathes and farm the ever-loving crap out of them, while other people struggle with the horrendously made others out of ~respect~ for ANET's design decision.

They literally changed nothing, save the fact you get less rewards if you manage to complete a dungeon faster than they intended.

Originally posted by eggy08

Originally posted by C1d0s

Originally posted by xpiher

 

---

Originally posted by C1d0s

---

Originally posted by wowfan1996

---

Originally posted by Xiaoki one of the anti-farming measures is to give you diminishing returns for rewards from a dungeon run if you complete the dungeon in less than 30 minutes

---

You gotta punish players for doing their job well. Brilliant.

---

How else are you supposed to teach them how to play? Since GW1, it's been pretty clear the Devs only care about enforcing their ideas of "fun" and "fair" by forcing particular builds, making artifically difficult PVE content, and simply pigeon holing over all. Don't expect anything different from GW2. They're trying so hard to be different than WoW that they're forgetting what made it a massive success in the first place. As they're making these terrible decisions, all they're clinging to is "Oh, yeah, we intended it that way. You're playing wrong! At least it's NOT Warcraft. RIGHT? AM I RIGHT?"

---

Explain hightlight please. If you are going to make a make statements like these you should explain it.

 

 

---

Originally posted by wowfan1996

---

Originally posted by xpiher You clearly don't play the game.

---

I do. But if ANet won't revert the changes I probably won't stay for long though.

---

 

 

While I haven't done every dungeon, the ones I've done without deaths have all taken longer than 30mins to complete (each boss taking 5 mins + travel time + kill extra mobs). If you are doing it in under 30mins, you are stoping at some point and going back. ANET doesn't want you doing that because it imbalances reward to time ratio. Easy way to circumvent it is by doing a little bit more content or swap between dungeons.
 

Teaching the players how to play is quite self-explanatory. They're modifying the game in a way to promote their version of play, instead of how the actual customers prefer. Regardless of designer's intention, players will find a playstyle that suits them - it doesn't matter if it was what the Devs had in mind. This has been true since the dawn of MMO's.

GW2 being so different from WoW, to me, is also pretty obvious. The WHOLE time it was being promoted, from beta to all the other PR events, it was hailed as something revolutionary and entirely different that what was already on the market. IE - Big dog on the block: WOW. Since then, that's all everyone can talk about:

"OMG, DOES THIS SO MUCH BETTR.", " SO DFFRNT FROM WOW", "LOL WOW BABY", "SO GUD. BETTER THAN WOW"

And yet ANET hasn't done absolutely nothing but continue to turn it into GW1, what with arificially difficult dungeons, anti-farm codes, and forcing players ( the elite, supposively ) to utilize particular classes, with certain weapons and traits to run dungeons for tokens so that they can get pretty-looking skins. Let's not forget also how many times you have to run these pitiful things just to get a single piece of gear, combined with how buggy and down-right broken most of them are - on top of the now reduced reward and inflated difficulty. Half of the dungeon tactics revolve around: "DODGE RED CIRCLE, KITE, KITE, KITE" anyway. I hardly see how that's any different or more fun than anything else we've been taught over our years of MMO-gaming.

"Oh, that boss with a stupid amount of health and no mechanics was boring? Okay, instead of reducing his health and giving a few abilities that might actually make you sweat.. we'll just tack-on a bunch of untested mechanics and INCREASE his already astounding healthpool so that, not only do you have to stick on a single mob for 45 minutes, but also run around dodging 15 different, buggy mechanics. -- Also, he'll go invulnerable from time-to-time. We don't know why, but who cares! It's more fun this way. Trust us! Just L2P and you'll be fine."

At least in Warcraft, the grind wasn't excruciatingly mind-numbing without reward. Hell, you could even do whatever dungeons you preferred to get your rewards thanks to universal tokens / points. You could even be ANY CLASS IN THE GAME, WITH ANY SPEC and still contribute effectively.

So much for being grind-less, casual friendly, and ultra revolutionary ANET.

Your a fool to think that they are doing it just to make players play in "their way". This is a fix for players who want to experience everything and gripe about the fact that all they can get groups for are easy dungeons with easy and quick paths. Once you get the gear from all that gold you accumulated, you're still never going to get to experience the other paths because noone will want to do them. They aren't teaching people anything, they are just making other paths viable.

Other paths viable? You do understand that, regardless of how many locks or difficulty patches they release, players will still find the easiest and fastest-completed dungeon to run to maximze their efforts, right? If you think ANYTHING else, then it's YOU who's the fool. They're trying to force people to experience parts of the game that, frankly, are unappealing to the playerbase; otherwise, this wouldn't even be a topic because everyone would already be doing all the dungeon paths in the first place.

It would be different if half the other paths in this game weren't mind-numblingy long, boring, or BROKEN ENTIRELY. Heaven forbid players actually want to break even when leaving dungeons, what with getting sneezed on by enemy mobs seeming to reduce your armor to shreds.

Originally posted by xpiher

 

---

Originally posted by C1d0s

---

Originally posted by wowfan1996

---

Originally posted by Xiaoki one of the anti-farming measures is to give you diminishing returns for rewards from a dungeon run if you complete the dungeon in less than 30 minutes

---

You gotta punish players for doing their job well. Brilliant.

---

How else are you supposed to teach them how to play? Since GW1, it's been pretty clear the Devs only care about enforcing their ideas of "fun" and "fair" by forcing particular builds, making artifically difficult PVE content, and simply pigeon holing over all. Don't expect anything different from GW2. They're trying so hard to be different than WoW that they're forgetting what made it a massive success in the first place. As they're making these terrible decisions, all they're clinging to is "Oh, yeah, we intended it that way. You're playing wrong! At least it's NOT Warcraft. RIGHT? AM I RIGHT?"

---

Explain hightlight please. If you are going to make a make statements like these you should explain it.

 

 

---

Originally posted by wowfan1996

---

Originally posted by xpiher You clearly don't play the game.

---

I do. But if ANet won't revert the changes I probably won't stay for long though.

---

 

 

While I haven't done every dungeon, the ones I've done without deaths have all taken longer than 30mins to complete (each boss taking 5 mins + travel time + kill extra mobs). If you are doing it in under 30mins, you are stoping at some point and going back. ANET doesn't want you doing that because it imbalances reward to time ratio. Easy way to circumvent it is by doing a little bit more content or swap between dungeons.
 

Teaching the players how to play is quite self-explanatory. They're modifying the game in a way to promote their version of play, instead of how the actual customers prefer. Regardless of designer's intention, players will find a playstyle that suits them - it doesn't matter if it was what the Devs had in mind. This has been true since the dawn of MMO's.

GW2 being so different from WoW, to me, is also pretty obvious. The WHOLE time it was being promoted, from beta to all the other PR events, it was hailed as something revolutionary and entirely different that what was already on the market. IE - Big dog on the block: WOW. Since then, that's all everyone can talk about:

"OMG, DOES THIS SO MUCH BETTR.", " SO DFFRNT FROM WOW", "LOL WOW BABY", "SO GUD. BETTER THAN WOW"

And yet ANET hasn't done absolutely nothing but continue to turn it into GW1, what with arificially difficult dungeons, anti-farm codes, and forcing players ( the elite, supposively ) to utilize particular classes, with certain weapons and traits to run dungeons for tokens so that they can get pretty-looking skins. Let's not forget also how many times you have to run these pitiful things just to get a single piece of gear, combined with how buggy and down-right broken most of them are - on top of the now reduced reward and inflated difficulty. Half of the dungeon tactics revolve around: "DODGE RED CIRCLE, KITE, KITE, KITE" anyway. I hardly see how that's any different or more fun than anything else we've been taught over our years of MMO-gaming.

"Oh, that boss with a stupid amount of health and no mechanics was boring? Okay, instead of reducing his health and giving a few abilities that might actually make you sweat.. we'll just tack-on a bunch of untested mechanics and INCREASE his already astounding healthpool so that, not only do you have to stick on a single mob for 45 minutes, but also run around dodging 15 different, buggy mechanics. -- Also, he'll go invulnerable from time-to-time. We don't know why, but who cares! It's more fun this way. Trust us! Just L2P and you'll be fine."

At least in Warcraft, the grind wasn't excruciatingly mind-numbing without reward. Hell, you could even do whatever dungeons you preferred to get your rewards thanks to universal tokens / points. You could even be ANY CLASS IN THE GAME, WITH ANY SPEC and still contribute effectively.

So much for being grind-less, casual friendly, and ultra revolutionary ANET.

Originally posted by wowfan1996

Originally posted by Xiaoki

one of the anti-farming measures is to give you diminishing returns for rewards from a dungeon run if you complete the dungeon in less than 30 minutes

You gotta punish players for doing their job well. Brilliant.

How else are you supposed to teach them how to play?

Since GW1, it's been pretty clear the Devs only care about enforcing their ideas of "fun" and "fair" by forcing particular builds, making artifically difficult PVE content, and simply pigeon holing over all.

Don't expect anything different from GW2. They're trying so hard to be different than WoW that they're forgetting what made it a massive success in the first place. As they're making these terrible decisions, all they're clinging to is "Oh, yeah, we intended it that way. You're playing wrong! At least it's NOT Warcraft. RIGHT? AM I RIGHT?"

At least when I played WoW there was some diversity in what I could play in regards to both PVP and PVE content.

What an awful trailer.

I approve of the game, but this has absolutely nothing to do with GW2, save for the very last couple of seconds at the end.

All the symbolism in the world doesn't make it any better, or more artsy - yes, there's a message.. but it's mucked between poor live-action bits and the limited time of a trailer.

As far as making someone think.. the only thing I thought when I saw this was: "WTF is this? Please tell me this is fan-made, not official."

If I saw that trailer, unknown to the context of the game.. I wouldn't even reasearch that game, much less buy it.

One-hundred percent agree. Regardless of your opinion on the game, World of Warcraft's tutorial is very nice: it explains everything from the most common methods of walking, combat, and itemization to the functions of UI and their retrospective buttons. 

I don't see why ANet wouldn't be working on this, seeing how they are clearly trying to appeal a market of less-than-savvy MMO players. 

+ There's a lot of them, and almost all heart quests involve them in some shape / fashion

- Just like everything, it will get stale as you continue to experience them / level alts