Frankly, I think you're wrong in your assumption. Most I have seen in no way, shape, or form expect to get everythig for free.

Not sure why some still seem to think people do.

Originally posted by DJJazzy

Well glad to see some have a positive experience out of all the forum negativity. 

I'm having fun for the most part but trying to find groups in this game is a pain in the ass. Have tried to get a group for the Foundry for 6 days now, the instance is grey to me at this point, but it feels like it is an excercise in futility. I've stopped trying to do the heroic missions on planets for a while now, no one groups up for those, at least on my server they don't. 

Other than that, I have enjoyed the game, even the pvp from time to time.

The problem is those are chained so many don't want to bother and frankly that one can be pretty tough. I would highly recommend still trying to group for it if you can if you enjoy the story telling in this game because that one is rather interesting in that department. It is rough to group for though.

I'm following it. Highly doubt I will pick it up at launch because regardless how some want to justify it or talk about how AoC is now that game was simply a mess at launch. So not real keen on jumping on board again until I see how things pan out. Does the AOC launch mean this will go the same way? No...but it was so awful that I'll let others test the waters first before I jump in.

Not completely writing the game off though either. Seems to have a lot of potential and interesting concepts going on for it.  We'll see...

/chooses option one

"Murder and mayhem awaits!"

Wow, wonder why they screwed up so bad on charging you? Gheesh. Glad they have't done that to me.

/goes online to check bank account

Originally posted by hikaru77

  For the people who really is playing the game we didnt even notice a drop in the population.

Maybe you haven't but I sure have.

Originally posted by sanosukex

expansions hardly ever change complete core aspects of the game aside from maybe skills or adding a new class/race.. I quit wow right after BC and since then never had even the slightest urge to try WotLK or Cata or the upcoming pandas expansion.. just depends on the game and the reasons you left i suppose..

No doubt. I mean no offense but I certainly wouldn't ask or wonder the same about you. But he leveled two characters to level 50 so he must have enjoyed the game or aspects of it to some degree.

Just curious really what turned him off so bad that he would refuse to consider this game at any time in the future.

Originally posted by Romuluas

My first MMO was EQ and I played that game for 12 - 14 hrs a day, but I had more time then I do now. Could SWTOR be better, definately, and Im sure that in a year it will be. Hate to say it but some of the things everyone is complaining about SWTOR not having are far from game breaking (ie: UI, LFG tool, Combat log, ect) at the same time there are things that should have been done right before it was release (ie: Auction house working properly, hardware issues ect)

Point being I dont think Swtor is going to die anytime in the fore seeable future, but at the same time I say it will be very lucky to sustain more than a million subs. Having between 500 and a million subs in my mind is far from a failure.

I don't think the reasons you listed are why the majority are leaving this game. They're certainly worth debating over but not the crux of what it appears to me is the main reason many are simply moving on. Just fuel to the fire really but not the main issue(s).

Granted I don't think this game is or going to be a failure anyways. Least not where I judged it was going to be when it is all said and done. Suppose that really depends on what the company and those judging it as being one or not believed the subs were going to be at when the smoke settled.

Originally posted by tyrannis

The OP's post made me look though, and I''ll say right now I'm so glad I bailed when I did. I won't ever be resubing either. Not in a year or two or any time period.

 

Really? Even if and when they come out with an expansion?

Not gonna lie, I really doubt this is a long term game for me. In fact, I believe since I am just about 50 that my days are numbered because frankly I have no desire to make an alt and go through those planets again. So unless there is some killer endgame....anywho...

Never thought it would be a long term game for me anyways. Gotta say though I would probably check it out from time to time or least when they had an expansion unless it was a disaster.

Originally posted by Starpower

Look

You are allowed to have issues with the game. If you told me PvP sucks and the game is a lobby instanced hellhole. You are more than welcome to make that point to me. I won't even argue with you because you are allowed to have that view. I know there are people here who would argue against it but to me arguing against tastes and opinions about games is like competing in the special olympics

 

That is not what I came here to discuss. I came here to discuss if the game is declining in a rapid rate and the so called proof.

 

Point A. Bioware has indeed changed server caps several times both during beta and during launch. The first week where servers had queues bioware upped the cap on how many people could join to relieve the queues. That caused the server which before said "full" now to show "heavy". Did people unsubscribe after a week making room for more?: No the cap got changed. Yet people started posting graphs how "full" "very heavy" "heavy" was an indicator of people leaving. This makes graphs without any real numbers suspect at the very least.

 

Point B. This lends to the end of point A. Since Bioware can define and manipulate cap and what constitutes as full or heavy to suit their lets call it tinfoil hat theory of trying to manipulate you the player to believe there are more playing than there actually are. Again proves that graphs and trends from third party sites are useless.

 

Point C. Whatever personal experince you have with two guilds just shows poor judgement on your part. If you say that supports what you are already saying then we are in agreement. Ones personal experience with your own guild is no guideline of anything

 

Point B.

I don't know why you're so stuck on the guild thing. Only reason I mentioned it was to relate my experiences with the poster I quoted. Wasn't trying to prove anything with that bit so not sure why you keep bringing it up.

My opinions as to the state of the server is what I see in game on planets, fleet, and talking to others. Has nothing to do with my guild experiences.

...and its just my server. As I said I cannot speak to the state of the game as a whole. I have no idea outside what I have seen on the two servers I have played on.

Sounds to me you base your entire argument on you being bad at chosing guilds. First step to remidy that is not to accept random invites

Not only did you clearly not read the majority of my post, but you also pretty much proved one of my points. Doubt you even realize it.

Thank you :)

I actually thought it would take a bit longer.

Far as what I said? If the shoe fits...

Plenty of other things you could say. Ignorant, self absorbed, etc. so what difference does it make? I mean why is it perfectly acceptable for them to equate people having problems with the game regardless the issue is somehow their incompetence or personal issue but to hold those accusers in the same light is somehow bad form?

Give me a break...

Least most of them are referring to their personal experience and not everyone as a whole. Unlike some others that make assumptions for everyone. You can chalk it up however you want and find a better word for it that you deem more 'pc' but doesn't change the type of person they come across as being least in relation to these discussions.

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

Those forums were so giddy about December 21st arriving and getting rid of the disgruntled forum posters who obviously weren't going to subscribe.  Things actually got a little better at first but have gone steadily downhill since.

Eh, they always do that. They somehow think the forums are magically going to change and all the issues will suddenly disappear. Because clearly the only ones with issues, problem, or are unhappy about things must be people that aren't going to sub anyways.

Probably just go out more. Right now I'm still playing SWTOR but if and when I get bored with it can;t say i fel like playing any of the other mmos I mess around with.

So until another one comes down the line probably will just take a break.

Originally posted by dannydeuce

All I know is what I personally see during the game.  I see my guild of about 230ish characters with 100 or so actual players considering alts.  The guild has 50 or so characters that are active as in played within the past 10 days.  Of those characters, a fair share are alts considering my knowledge of the people playing and the levels of the chars.  From my calculations, around 50% of the guild with characters on average about level 35 have either quit, moved on to a different character/guild/server, or something else.  I could make an educated guess that 25% have quit based on these numbers and conversations over vent/in game chat.  This is after 1 1/2 months of play.  I do not consider this a good retention rate at all and does not bode well for the longevity of this game.

Been in two guilds. Left because the on only had me and another player logging in and the other one had a decent amount logging in (low teens) but no one ever grouped together or even chatted much. Was rather pointless really. Not to mention I never saw the gm once so I gather him along with god knows how many others quit or rerolled elsewhere.

Anyways, to me what is really telling are simply the amount of players on planets and fleet. The numbers are simply dwindling down everywhere. Does that mean they're quitting completely? Not necessarily, could be rerolling ona more populated server.

But one thing is clear. I cannot talk for the game as a whole, but I can say my server is dying. Which considering it used to be one of the more populated ones really says something.

Frankly, I think their biggest fuckup is they simply released way too many servers for this game so I get the sense may are quitting out of frustration due to being unable to group or feeling the game is lifeless. This game isn't the best for grouping to begin with because of how people get spread out and thier weakass mechanics. Throw in the fact that some of these servers simply don't have the population to justify having a separate server then it only exacerbates the issue.

It doesn't help when you have dickweeds that constantly dismiss these issues going around saying everything is fine everywhere and constantly downplaying those having these issues. Frankly, anymore I find them as much to blame for these games having retention issues and dragging their feet on fixing things as I do the companies. They're so goddamn stubborn they just muddy the waters, giving false info to new players, and false bravado to the company so some issues take way longer to be assessed and evaluated properly. They cause way more damage to these games than the haters they despise so much.

The irony is most times once their rose colored glasses fall off they either slink away without a word or become one of the bigger complainers on forums about the status of the game and its condition. Never fails...

Originally posted by echolynfan

Yep - and you get that with SWTOR - and then you hit 50 and realize (like I did) that this is a giant polished turd. I had such high hopes for SWTOR which makes the disappointment even greater. I can't believe they spent millions of dollars on that piece of crap.

I WAS one of the bigger supporters of SWTOR on this and other forums - was in Beta and bought 2 copies of the Deluxe Edition (my wife never made it past 30 before proclaiming it crap) so I'm not talking outta my ass.

Broken game - broken raiding - broken PVP - worthless crafting and an even worse Space Mini-game. BW hit a milestone LOW with this MMO.

Wow, can't say I'm surprised some are changing their tune but a bit surprised how severe your opinion changed. Really does say something considering how much of an avid supporter of this game you were.

Can't say my opinion has changed yet. Although I never thought this game was anything special or great to begin with. About the only thing that has changed for me is how amazed I am at how badly they have managed server populations and due to how low some are in people it just highlights how awful their lfg mechanics are.

Originally posted by Normike

The suspense is hot. It's not suspense like sitting on the edge of your seat, dripping with sweat, stunned that one of main story characters just got their head chopped off, like a Game of Thrones type book. But you do have a nice interest in finding out whats gonna happen next.

 

The imperial agent storyline is damn good. DAMN GOOD. Even the voice actor was sickening (awesome). The jedi knight storyline was interesting enough for me to keep going till the end. No major OMG plot twists but it was ok. The "OMG" part is trying to figure out if I could ever go back to another MMO that didn't have story woven into the game like this. Thx SWTOR, I'm ruined too...

 

What suspense? These story lines are hackneyed at best. The only "twist" in either that I have seen is in one you get betrayed. Which omg llike can't see it comeing since for about the second half of the chapter you only get warned by everyone that she will betray you.

...and the other ended up working for the other side. Which I must say couldn't see that coming but considering they hardly used the character at all can't say I doubt anyone much cared. I didn't realize who the hell they were even talking about at first because he's hardly used at all but then you're supposed to be shocked I suppose when he ends up betraying you. It lacks any depth and very few notable characters. Not to mention there aren't any climactic builds at all.

It isn't like video games have the greatest wrap for storytelling anyways so not trying to take the game to task over it. I'll take a main story or plot driving the game and world over this though. Simply feels watered down because I guess they had so much to write for. I don't think the story telling in this game is noteworthy in the least outside of maybe a few 'haha hehe' moments for KOTOR fans.

Also, even though you did say it's "suspense" wasn't on the same level as Game of Thrones to even use the two in a comparison on any level other than to compare good story telling to well...you get the idea...is simply wrong on so many levels.

I think this game is doing worse at keeping players around than I thought it would. I don't need Xfire to see this. I log in and see less and less all the time.

I knew there would be a dropoff but this appears to be more than I anticipated. Apparently it was more than whatever fuck decided to go hog wild on the number of servers to add too.

Originally posted by Alot

Did I just hear someone saying the Sith Inquisitor storyline is good!? 

Even a blind, deaf, comatose, lobotomy patient could make a better, less cheesy storyline than that.

Believe it or not it is actually better than the sage one. Well...better may not be the way to put it but it's cheese factor is a smidge lower.

All in all not real impressed with the storytelling in this game. Not sure if it is because they had so many to make or simply didn't put forth the effort but the majority of them are rather dull, generic, and lack any emotional depth.

Originally posted by smh_alot
I think a lot of people aren't being completely truthful: when AoC had its voice overs extensively up to L20, I didn't hear people say 'fuck, why did they do that? I don't want cutscenes, dialogue choices and VO, I want my normal textbased questing'. Nope, instead most of the times I heard 'AoC sucks, the first 20 levels questing is great and then they switch to the same old questing that I done before'.

 

Also, when people criticise VO and cutscenes, it's always about how it's a waste of money and that they should improve other gameplay aspects with it, but almost never do I hear 'traditional questing with text and no choices is SOOOO much better than VO/cutscene questing!'

Lol

That might be the big complaint some have now if they do. That sure as hell wasn't even close to what people were mainly complaining about at launch nor why the game did so awful at retaining players.

They didn't get the nickname 'Failcom' by many because people were upset about a lack of voiceovers or cinematics after level 20.

I've seen a few complain about this. Not even close to what the majority were upset about in that game. Anyways, there were just as many that hated how Tortage was set up from what I remember and didn't care for it so kind of moot anyhow.

Originally posted by Deewe

Agreed. So much focus went into the voiced over cinematics that they built the game around it instead of using it as a great topping.

 

The other issue with the VO is most of the dialog choices do nothing more than just changing your lines. It doesn't help replayability that much.

 

Finally the writing isn't that great. IMHO AoC has even better writing and LotRo is far superior.

I agree as well. I've gone through the book quests several times in LotR. Even with the differing class story lines I have no desire to go through the stories on the planets again. There is only one planet's story line I enjoyed enough that I wouldn't mind repeating it.

The rest? No thanks...