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All Posts by MustaphaMond

All Posts by MustaphaMond

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289 posts found
Originally posted by Zartanyen

That is nice but as you pointed out the people went to designated points where you went to them they did not just roll down any old street and set up shop in the middle of the street or town.

If you have to have this system then why not do as you pointed out with your RL story have a place for the people to set their shops up not to be in the way of people playing the game have them in their own market square.


The designated points weren't designated.  The vendors (and people) went there because that is where people have gone and will always go for that type of thing.  That city has been there forever, and people have been selling stuff in that area like that for ages.  Outside of health permits and some basic permits to set up stalls, I was always told that it was a very "first come, first serve" thing and vendors set up their stalls where they please (so long as it didn't threaten public safety or block the neighboring businesses... which in Aion would be the npc's).

In fact, vendors could set up stands on the sidewalks across the streets or elsewhere so long as they didn't impede traffic.  What that meant was up to the police, I guess.  Still, you rarely saw a stand set up even on an adjacent sidewalk because it meant less customers.  You would see it from time to time, though... just some random trailer on some sidestreet... why they set up there, who knows?

However, foot traffic was what determined where people set up their shops in that city.  It was a FFA.  The fact it is so organized is just because the same families and people have been doing it for so long it becomes systemized.  That's my point.  You don't need an authority telling people where to vend when human nature and the market sorts it out fine.

I'm sorry if it appears cluttered to you, but I feel like if I have to go to some zone away from the teleporter pad and the foot traffic, it limits my ability to sell.  I don't know... I've noticed a lot of negative feelings toward personal stores, so maybe the market really will regulate itself and people won't use them.  That will solve the problem faster than NCSoft adding in designated vending areas.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly
Originally posted by DevilXaphan

I can see personal shops set up in out-posts and hunting areas as being usefull, while i agree that in a city they can make for lots of clutter they also are a quick way of selling consumables from alchemy, cooking and tailoring.


Only thing that bothers me about it is what you alluded to it clutters things up within the city.  I was impressed that it didn't create any lag for me but due to hundreds of weenies selling in the same area when you port in it took quite some time for all the people to appear.

I wish within the city there was a set area this could be done if they want to and outside of that at outposts, hunting areas, wherever else  let them place their stores wherever because it doesn't seem to be so out of control where a gagillion people place their stores in the same spot.


I think this is a sensible solution.  The only problem is that area might get so packed that you can barely click on individual players who are selling, though (which is unlikely).

Also, raven's point that if you truly don't like the chairs, don't buy from those who sell is right.  It's a capitalistic system.  The day that people stop buying from me and it's a waste of time, that's the day I stop vending.  I find it a huge part of an MMO experience.

I sympathize with the "it makes things cluttered" argument though, but it's not just "poor countries" or hippies selling incense on college campuses (or pick a card, any card scammers).

From the beginning of time, there were other things besides war, sex, and killing for "money."  A little something called the "barter system" was also important too, for one (which might boil down to "money for sex" in some instances).  It's still around too, even in rich/well off countries.

Dutch cheese market 1 and 2 (the netherlands is one of the richest Western European countries, btw... and they have open air markets in almost all of their cities).  These are portable trailers that are brought into a square on certain days...

Here are some from markets in Holland, again a very wealthy/affluent Western European country:

1 and 2 and 3

*** The second and third pics are of a city that I lived in for two years (the place is called the Vismarkt or "fish market" and the city = Groningen).  The third pic is the best because you can see all the stalls/trailers densely packed into a confined area.  One man's "eyesore" is another's "that is cool!"

Twice weekly the neighboring farmers, fishermen, dairy owners, etc. would bring in their goods to sell in this market.  The food was far fresher than what you buy at the supermarket, and it was cheaper.  If you went at the end of the day, you could get it for even cheaper because whatever isn't sold has to be packed up and taken back to their farms (to sell wholesale, I guess?).

Plus, it gave you a great, atmospheric reason to get outside and walk around and haggle with the vendors and just enjoy the day (when it wasn't pouring rain, of course).

Knowing that the majority of buyers would be in that area, that is where sellers set up their stands.  The same will prove true in Aion as the people who set up personal stores in weird places won't get sales.  And, if enough people find personal stores annoying, we won't get enough sales to justify putting them up.  It's that simple.

However, just because it's not something you are familiar with does not mean it is shady people around college campuses hocking junk or poorer countries that only do this.  It was one of my best memories of the Netherlands, and I think it adds to the community of a game.

I'm sorry you feel attacked about this point and clearly don't like personal stores, but I think they add to the game's atmosphere and make the city feel alive.  I'm sorry for those who feel the opposite.  I think there is something to be said to limiting sellers to specific areas of the city though.

Still, as it normally happens, those selling anything of value normally put themselves where their goods sell.  If people don't buy, you won't see them vending in a certain area.  It's a self-regulating system and I wish there was a middle ground for those of us who like them and those who find them an intrusive eyesore.

Originally posted by NeverLand7
Originally posted by MustaphaMond

@OP... time and time again, you fail to give a specific thing that you see in the gameplay vids that bothers you.  A gut reaction is all good at first, but there must be something SPECIFIC that doesn't gel for you.


Okay, if you feel that way so strongly I'll let you know.

1. The game worlds graphics did not appeal to me

2. The game worlds art style/graphics style was not appealing to me

3. The environments looked uninspired in regards to my tastes

4. The gameplay displayed in the videos looked uninteresting.

5. One of the first things that popped into my head after watching the video, was It felt like Vanguard on steroids.

But in all honesty, don't take it so personally, I'm sure it will still be a great quality game and offer unique and interesting ideas to the mmorpg genre.

Just, I don't think It's going to be for me, sadly. And I can live with that, but you seem to be very shaken up by the aforesaid.


I'm not shaken up, just frustrated because I wonder *why* it is not appealing to you.  I get the point, which you originally stated, that the game is not appealing.  Going a step further to say the graphics aren't appealing, the environments, etc., etc, aren't appealing doesn't specify anything.  You still haven't explained why they are not appealing.

Here's an example, and it's real.  Myself, I do not like WoW's graphic.  I find them unappealing.  The reason they are unappealing is that, to me, they appear cartoony and are "blocky" somehow. I also don't care for the shades and colors used in the game.  They seem too "loud" to me and my eyes hurt when I play it.  All in all, the graphics appear very clunky and unrefined and I don't care for them.

Now, if you wanted to ask me what I think "cartoony" mean or "blocky" or "loud," that's another thing.  But, at least I gave you reasons, and they are more specific than "just because...."  All that you are doing is saying the game is unappealing because the graphics are unappealing... the game is like vanguard on steroids because the first thing I thought when playing was "this is like vanguard on steroids".... etc.

If you don't want to answer, whatever.  I was genuinely curious because I haven't played Vanguard and I just wanted to know what to look for if I found other gameplay videos.

And, that's another point you never addressed.  What gameplay videos are referencing?  Can you hear German in the background?  I would bet they are the gamecon vids.

As I said before, those players probably don't know what in the hell they are doing.  But, a lot of your complaints seem centered around graphics and environments (though you originally mentioned lack of PvP, if I'm not mistaken), so in that case, at least I know that something about the graphics is off to you and reminds you of Vanguard.  I guess that will do.

Originally posted by stayontarget

Um if you did a check in the game you would find out that you cannot keep a store up 24/7.

If you go AFK for about 2 hours in the game you will get kicked, and this goes for stores also !!


Unless they've changed this, that was not my experience.  I left my toon logged in during CB over night and it wasn't logged out.  And, surely, the two hour limit is wrong.

Again, maybe they switched things up, but I don't think the autolog applies when you are in your store.  Can any clarify?

Originally posted by Stormbow

I am not the only person in any online game that does not appreciate other people's (there's your ME attitude for you!) sale banners blocking the sights of the game.

If your sale banners block the line of sight between anyone and their goals (e.g., trying to find and target NPCs in games), you are the one at fault.  Not them.

Nice try though.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with (for example) Dark Age of Camelot's system of selling items (or any other game's copy-n-paste sytem of Auction houses).


Okay, that's fair enough.  I've actually found the signs an eyesore too, but your original complaint just mentioned people having their stores up 24/7, with no connection to the signs everywhere or blocking your access to npc's.  I will agree that people who put up personal stores right on top of npc's = annoying, but any game with personal stores will have specific areas that people put them up in.  Sure, that one area looks very "busy", but I just feel like it is about the only "player created" aspect of the game world that still exists.  I wish they were a bit more like FFXI (just a little "bag" symbol next to your name), but even the signs looking like a bunch of loud billboards isn't all bad.  It's like walking around a market with some of the prices and goods advertised in bold signs around the stalls.

I get if it looks bad to you, but that's NCSoft's fault for how they designed the signs, not the players who want to leave their store open to sell their goods.  As I said before, players self-segregate and you'll only find stores in a handful of places.  Sure, those places will look cluttered, but otherwise you have a pretty moving painting that the players just progress through.  With private stores, as annoying as they might look, players establish a footprint on the world.  You want to look at a perfect scene that runs in an infinite loop, I want to the ability to add a small fingerprint on that scene by joining other merchants in selling our wares at a given time and moment.

That's the thing... what I am saying is very "me me me" based too, but I'm not the one taking AWAY a feature from other players that was designed into the game by the devs.  Sure, I can see how the signs and clutter is an immersion killer, but the devs cannot program perfect immersion into the game as a feature.  They have, however, put a player-driven aspect of game in place that you are against so, presumably, you would eliminate.

Originally posted by Stormbow

I must say, one thing I really don't want to see in a P2P game is people sitting around with their own shops open day and night.

I want to sell things in games, but I'll quit playing the game before I'll leave my computer on all day and night just to sell stuff.


But they got my $70 or whatever, so what do they care now?


I understand YOUR desire to sell things with the refusal to leave YOUR shop open day and night, but why should YOUR preference determine what OTHERS decide to do in game?

Essentially, I get why some might not want their shops open 24/7, but why is it a problem if others want to do so?

@OP... time and time again, you fail to give a specific thing that you see in the gameplay vids that bothers you.  A gut reaction is all good at first, but there must be something SPECIFIC that doesn't gel for you.

You're like the person who sees a movie preview, has a "that looks crappy" reaction, but when asked why, you can't explain it.  If I see some crappy action flick preview, I almost always can say "that looks predictable" or "boring actors and/or plot."

I asked you on page one, and others have continued to ask you what, SPECIFICALLY, reminds you of vanguard and puts you off about the gameplay video.

Also, I want to know what gameplay videos you are watching.  Because, as I said before, if it's the ones from gamecon those who were playing were likely unfamiliar with the controls and you don't really get an accurate sense of how the game will work from that.


Myself, I don't like how close the camera is zoomed up in the those videos and the fact that it doesn't look like the players were able to manipulate it that much.  Still, I've realize that could just be the players, not the game.  Still, if I were to object to the game based on the gameplay videos, that would be my specific reason as to what troubled me.

"Just because..." <--- lazy.  If you are going to start a thread like this, you can't be lazy with your reasons.  As I'm sure you're aware (based on your avatar), SE fanbois and grrrls are some of the most rabid.  If you can't bring specifics and only point to intuition, it's just poking a hornet's nest for no reason. 

Still, I think you need to wait until you've seen some videos where players actually know what they are doing.  If you have seen them, my apologies (and please give me the links).

Don't know if you need it or not, but here are the CBT=>OBT links to d/l should you desire:

CBT to OBT D/L: HERE (You don't need to be a paid suscriber, but it increases the d/l speed)

or this is the TORRENT

Originally posted by Zartanyen

Now for the are you kidding me?

2. The chairs. mmo's have put in auctions halls for a reason no more spamming region chat or auction chat its all on the same screen no one wants to see this. but here Aion does a bang up job so you do not have to see it in  /1 or /2 now you have a bunch of people in every camp starting out with numbers ranging from about 10+ per base camp to upwards of 80+ in the main city  they have a auction hall are people to cheap to pay a small fee to sell their items at auction? no no its much better for me to try to move around these people in their chairs spaming selling my garbage ass normal white items for thousands to tens of thousands of gold I get this is a Asian game and gold sellers are part of their communtity because its a job for some of them over their but take it out of the NA/EU game you do not have to target them any more no one wants to go through a place to see come to bla bla bla .com cheapest gold around and power leveling from x it is not like the chairs will stop them from spamming my mail box as well. I will give credit to darkfall and mortal online their I bet they do not have  many gold sellers if any at all..


1) You can't complain about the 10+ personal stores in the starter areas because there is no AH access in those areas.  In fact, I'm grateful for people who vend in those areas as they frequently sell useful items at fair prices, believe it or not.  Yes, even what you might call "garbage whites" can sometimes fill a need if they are selling at a fair price.  I think what you are complaining about is the people who charge crazy prices to prey on the ignorant.  With a little comparison shopping, personal stores are a great thing.

For example, there are times you buy a "garbage white" or use a "garbage white" from a drop because that's simply the only item you have at that point and you truly are starting from scratch.  Now, maybe you could buy the item for 3k kinah from NPC, you use it for a few levels, then something better drops.  Are you going to sell the item back to the npc for like 700 kinah or, when afk, set up a personal store and sell it for 1.5k or 2k to a player who also might need it and might even realize they are saving kinah by not buying it off of the npc?

This is one benefit to personal stores, ESPECIALLY in the starter areas.

2)  With respect to personal stores in cities with AH access... I understand your complaint about people who sell stuff for way more than it's worth (preying on those dumb enough to buy it without shopping around).  But, if you actually took the time to consistently browse the personal stores you find in game, you will find that several of the vendors are actually offering fair deals, and MANY sell AT or SLIGHTLY BELOW the AH listing price.  There are several reasons for this, but when you joke about how cheap people must be for not wanting to pay listing fees, you aren't too far off.

You see, especially with crafters who make consumables (i.e., alchemy and cooking), the limited number of slots to sell stuff on the AH is a problem.  You can only put up so many items, and of course you pay a small fee to list them.  ESPECIALLY in the area of consumables (where people make them in high volumes and will flood the market with them because they sell in such high numbers), it's a fairly normal occurence to put up an item for 1000 kinah (and you pay the list fee).  Then, to watch the price of that item get undercut and wind up dropping to "800 kinah" and staying there for weeks on end.

So, you have a few choices... you can leave your items up @1k kinah and hope they sell before they are sent back to you... you give up the time waiting for them to sell though, and the auction slots they are taking up could be used to sell something else.  Or, you can remove the items an relist them, now at 800 kinah (or maybe you're a real bastard and you undercut the market... which is probably why the price dropped in the first place... because somebody else got pissed that there stuff wasn't selling and undercut the market).  So, if you relist, sometimes the item doesn't sell and you just keep repeating the process because undercutters force the price down again.

As you pay listing fee after listing fee, it starts to add up.  Especially when you craft consumables, the money you make comes in small chunks (but you sell your stuff faster than the other crafts).  Every listing fee eats into those already marginal profits.  It becomes a futile exercise.  Plus, for the other crafts, some of the high kinah items have substantial listing fees that I would hate to pay over and over again because stuff wasn't selling.  On top of all of this aggravation, again you have AH slots that are occupied and your inventory is a mess because you can't sell anything on the AH.

So, the solution?  Sell at a slight discount in personal store.

It's different for everybody, but lets say the "market rate" for your item is about 900-1000 kinah and the listing fees is 10% of that, or 90-100 kinah (I can't remember if Aion's are that high, tbh).  Still, you can figure that if you sell one of your items for 1000 kinah, you make 900 kinah (that isn't all profit... dont' forget that you had to pay for the mats to make the item, as well as give up your time to craft it).  But, as you saw above (if anybody bothered to read this), if the item didn't sell at 1000 and you relisted at 800, now you paid another listing fee (80 kinah)... so if you sell for 800, you really make 800 - 100 - 80 = 620 kinah.  Many hardcore crafters and people who vend face this all of the time.  So, what we do is find a happy place in the middle.

For me, I look at a price like 1000 kinah on AH, knowing that it means more like "900 kinah" after listing fee.  Then, if it's an item that faces undercutting and price drops, I look at where those price drops normally take the item (lets say 800 is its low point).  Then, I keep in mind the price to relist the item over and over again.  In the end, I still throw some of the items up on the AH for 1000k, but I also sell some in personal store for ~800-900 kinah.  That way, if the price drops, I still have a chance that somebody will buy from my personal store because they know 1k is the normal price and they realize it's a fair deal, even without checking the AH.  Plus, you build a reputation for yourself if you consistently sell that item as repeat customers know that you sell for a fair price.  Sometimes, they run to you first and buy off of you because they know you are normally "cheaper" than AH price.

In this way, personal stores are vital.  They allow you to move items quickly and make almost as much money as you would from the AH.  They also benefit the buyer because you pass on the savings on the listing fee to the buyer (plus a small discount to give ppl that last little prod to buy from someplace other than AH).   Also, private stores tend to lead to side jobs where you wind up crafting orders for people who buy in high volumes (and of course, you pass on more of a discount to them because moving volume is everything).  Plus, when you do things this way you are creating a slightly downward pressure on the items price, but you aren't shaking confidence in its valuation as would happen if you were undercutting the AH directly.  A whole lot of positives, with very few negatives (mostly by those who don't browse them, and who find all of the people sitting around an eyesore... which I kinda understand).

The flip-side of all of this is if you sell something that frequently sells out on the AH.  Then, you can be devious and still put that item up for sale on the AH, but you sell it in your personal store at a substantial markup knowing that it will eventually sell out and people will have to buy it from you or wait (if they know you have some in your store, that is).  This earns you a different kind of reputation, of course... (;^.^)

I tend to set my prices just a hair lower than the AH prices.  In my example (the 1000kinah item), it appears that I am giving a 15% discount, but considering the listing fee (which in my example is 10%), the "real" discount is a mere 5%.  I lose very little (5% of the sale price) and gain a ton (speedier sale of my goods, establishing a rep. for myself as a fair merchant and one who sells items of that nature, and the satisfaction that if the AH price drops to 800 kinah and I don't realize it right away, I still might sell goods at 850 because people are in the habit of buying them from me, not some random person on the AH).

Wordy, I know, but for me personal stores/bazaars are great.  Some of you who come from games that don't use them, or have only played F2P games with annoying bazaars/personal stores, I pity that you don't see their benefits.  There are some scammers, sure... but I'm glad to have personal stores.  About the only change I *might* make to them is that it might be better if there were only certain areas you could set them up (to limit personal stores being everywhere and right on top of npc's).  Still, I don't like this because if tons of people put up stores, it might become way too crowded in the designated zones (not like it's any better in certain "market" areas of the game though).

Originally posted by Lathander81
Originally posted by Fkinglinux

Regardless of our definition of sandbox, I think we all agree AION isn't a sandbox, the reviewer is either well paid or retarded.

If you actually read the article, he is saying that Aion has sandbox elements. Not that it is sandbox.  I acutally like a more linear game anyway. It really makes you feel like your toon is connected to the game. Were as in WOW its all about haow many alts you have have because you can't raid tonight :P

And many of us are saying that the "sandbox elements" he mentions do not qualify as "sandbox."

1) He thinks that the quests given from npc's that are optional = sandbox-like because something is happening in the game world other than the campaign quests.... ummm... the whole notion of a quest-giving npc is THEMEPARK and linear, whether the quest is optional or not...  To add insult to injury, one of the lesser points of an otherwise great games is its cookie cutter "kill 10 XYZ's" quest formula... which hearkens back to the THEMEPARK as well.

2) The article crows that exploring Aion's zones give it a very "sandbox" feel.  I don't know what game the author is playing, but the zones are *hardly* open to me and I sure don't have an aching desire to explore considering how the zones are constructed.  I agree with another poster that the zones are very functional, in that you walk along a path and that going left might take you to some npc's while going right might take you to where you kill mobs for those npc's (frequently the mobs and npc's are in the same place).  I guess it's just that the zones are beautiful, they feel somewhat large, but they are not something to point to as far as something that makes you thirst to explore.

With choke points, hills/trees/bolders, clever use of angles... the zones are actually somewhat claustrophobic.  Even in the "largest/most open" areas, I feel like I'm in the center of a gym.  Sure, there is a lot of open space around me, but I still perceive the walls along the perimeter.  I think they did an okay job giving you a sense of space in Aion, but anybody who feels like the zones are very open and invite exploration is smoking some good shit.


I'm sorry if what I've said seems negative.  Believe it or not, I really enjoy Aion and will gladly devote myself to it.  I find the world immersive, enjoy the music, and think my legionmates are good sorts and that I will have a great time adventuring with them.  However, I don't delude myself into thinking some of the core components of its linearity (standard quest format+a fairly preplanned zone design) are "sandbox elements."

As others rightly point out, the PvP will likely provide some true sandbox elements... but, c'mon.  The article seems like "ad copy" to me... especially given the cheesy screenshots (which have what bearing on the writing again?).  It feels like a hack job, as if the author was paid off to spin the game as something its not ("hey everybody! check out this game with a good balance of themepark/sandbox!).  Or, maybe he's just a fanboi.  I don't know.  I still find the claims/examples outrageous.

It's a good game with great polish as far as art direction and music goes though.  The gameplay is tight, grouping is enjoyable, and the world draws you in.  Notice, nowhere in that description have I mentioned that it has sandbox elements.  The PvP will likely prove dynamic (i.e., "sandbox-like"), but anybody who feels Aion has a "good balance" between Themepark and Sandbox either doesn't comprehend what those words really mean, is a fool, or has other motives for portraying the game as something it's not.

You're entitled to your opinion (that's not to say others won't disagree), but would you care to share some SPECIFIC reasons why you believe what you believe?  What exactly did you see in the gameplay videos that you find comparable to Vanguard?  What has made you decide not to play the game?

The only gameplay videos I've seen are very limited...  essentially, novice (and not so novice) players killing Doodoo's at gamecon.  I think most of the players were learning the controls on the fly, so the videos are not exactly action pack.  If that is what you're basing your complaint on, give the game a chance.  I would never judge a game based on gameplay videos of total n00b's playing it.

However, if you have other vid's and are willing to explain what you find objectionable, I'm all ears.  Remember, though.... giving SPECIFIC examples and reasons is a lot better than random conclusions that lack any support.

Originally posted by Yunbei

*sob* I don't understand any of this computer stuff. I just want to download something... after days and hours of trying I am at the end with my nerves. *__*


So, you admit that you don't know anything about computers.  You explain this is a problem that only YOU are having because of YOUR ignorance.  And you started a thread telling EVERYONE not to buy the game because.....?  I mean, WTF is your deal?  Why are you telling EVERYONE to avoid buying the game as a download when only YOU, one single person, is having problems?

The world does not revolve around you, and what you experience is not what the rest of us experience.  A title like "Need help downloading Aion's client!" instead of telling us not to buy the game online would've been great.  Instead, you are either coming up with some lameass reason to tell people not to buy the game, or you're scaring people away from buying it a certain way because of your own ignorance and stupidity.

You have the power to learn about computers, or to throw up your hands and shrug and just sob that you don't understand any of this computer stuff.  Make a choice that leaves you better off, or at the very least doesn't discourage other people.  Essentially, man it up...

Originally posted by sayuri2006

I swear that any idiot on my server when the game goes live, as it occurs on other MMORPGs, will feel the wrath of our server and we will ignore you and we will isolate you. You will not get into any groups, and we will tell as many people as we can who you are and why we should isolate you. THIS is something that WoW has failed to address that other MMORPGs do.


If your statement is typical of this "nice and mature community" filled with "like-minded people who don't seek others that plague the realms with their self absorbed behaviour," then I want nothing to do with your "maturity" and your definition of what is "nice."

Most "mature" people I know don't shun and ostracize those who don't conform.  They offer polite, constructive criticism and try to engage the offending party, not turn them into social pariahs.

Your "mature and nice" community of witch hunters sounds anything but delightful.  In fact, it sounds like the social bullying I witness everyday at my job.  Just FWIW, I'm a junior high teacher.  Isolating people and shunning them is how 13 year olds get back at people they don't like.  Some emotionally immature adults do it too.

And for somebody who hates how "self-absorbed" these players are, don't you notice how you are applying YOUR standards to how THEY should play?  You use the word "we" when you talk about what YOU will do to the offending parties.  Have you ever heard of "psychological projection"?  It may serve you to read up on it, humble yourself a bit, and try to offer helpful guidance to those who are asshats instead of making a point to isolate them.

Granted, a few are beyond saving (I know this for a fact given that 185 days of my year are normally devoted to a whole spectrum of students who come from all walks of life.  What you want, and what you describe, is chilling and if I am on your server, I can promise I won't be some lapdog who blindly follows your judgments about whether or not to group with certain players.

I play Aion because the world and music bewitch me.  I also enjoy socializing with my legion, but they are truly mature and nice, and I use those words doing my best to remove them from how you use them.  Their philosophy is to suggest what they know works best, but let the individual ultimately decide how to best obtain their in-game goals.  The type of bullying and peer pressure you describe has no part in mature behavior.

Maturity means accepting that some people are jerks, and some people are asshats, and it's better to just apply your energies to helping them, or doing something productive for yourself rather than running around talking smack and working against those individuals.

What you describe is corrosive and self-defeating.  It's clear with your "discuss..." crap at the end of your post that it is a troll post, but for those who agree with OP, really think about it.  Why spend so much energy vilifying  somebody?  Just help them out instead, or ignore them and go about your business.

You can't focus on the haters or idiots.  They are always there, and if you dwell on that, you're toast.

I agree with those who've said Pong, Pac-Man+Ms. Pac-man, Super Mario Brothers and Tetris.

Mario = hugely important, as others rightly point out, gaming (and consoles in the house) became common place and acceptable, not just fringe and geeky (not like i cared, as I was already an addict from playing my Atari 2600 and C64 before that).

Tetris = when I noticed my friend's parents, both conservative military sorts, were addicted to the game and playing for hours every night (and getting really good), I knew that gradually everybody would play games.

I find myself agreeing the most with those games listed here that follow the K.I.S.S. (keep it simple, stupid!) philosophy.  The only reason I don't include Zelda, which was awesome, is because there was more memorization in that game and the world was more open than many gamers could handle.

Still, if you really think about, even the little old grandma's and grandpa's are sitting in a casino playing games and interfacing with technology when they play video poker and those slot machines that have the little mini-games (sometimes) when you win.

Don't tell them that though.  In their own mind, many of them would say they know nothing about computers and might actually say video games are awful.  But, because we've all gotten so used to a game in the background, especially because of Mario and Tetris from back in their heydays... well, even ludites are better at using technology and find it less alarming to push a computer screen to gamble, or use an atm or cellphone.

A thread like this, and remembering all the memories of these older games shows a really deep aspect to something we all love, whether we are fanbois/grrrls for game XYZ, or absolutely hate the very same game and love nothing more than to trash it.  Gaming, when done in a way that is universally appealing, is all about limiting the difficulty of using technology to have fun.

Sometimes we get so hung up on exactly how devs should go about doing that, but I think this thread points to something that a lot of us don't want to adit: casual game play, and gaming "for the masses" is not always a bad thing, at least not for the greater society...

Originally posted by fiontar

No game since has come even close to matching vanilla WoW in world design and world size. When WoW launched, I thought it would easily prove to be lacking in overall world design vs. the games we would be seeing in the later half of the decade. Needless to say, I'm disappointed that WoW has proved the pinnacle, rather than the minimum baseline; one that titles of the last five years haven't even approached.


Said by somebody who has likely never trekked by foot, or even by chocobo, around the world of Vandiel.  One of the most common complaints of my friends about FFXI was the travel time and difficulty involved with moving around the game world.  I am not extremely familiar with WoW, but I noticed in your list you omit FFXI and I just have to say its game world feels very large, excepting a few zones that feel confining for a logical reason (e.g., a cave/dungeon or jungle having a very closed feel).

The complaint is valid.  A flaw is a flaw, whether the game is great or not.  As with OP, I will play the game too (and I think it is an awesome game).  But, it's quite linear and the starter zones/quests, regardless of how much they are updated in later patches, will always feel confining for those of us coming from those rare games with fairly "expansive" worlds.

Myself, I've just accepted this as one of the few flaws of an otherwise awesome game.  In fact, I'm making lemonade with these lemons and using the linearity for the advantages it presents (i.e., I already have "maps" in my head of how to finish quest in a sequential/logical order, and still get chances at nearby NM's... all the while making very quick progress while playing through the zone). 

It's confining, but leveling alts will be fairly quick as you get the progression down and figure out how to best complete the quests and content.  Smart players will figure out a way of progressing that limits the amount of pointless running back and forth and redundancy in killing mobs.  Linearity saves time, but definitely takes the fun out of leveling Alt's and whatnot.  It's not a game breaker, butI understand how it can bother others.

I like this game, I am making the best out of the bad, but that doesn't change the fact that the zones, especially the starter areas, can give you a claustrophobic feel if you are accustomed to more "open" game worlds.  Coming from FFXI, for example, SE did a great job making you feel like the zone was quite expansive and far reaching.  Plus, for starter areas each city has two zones, and they felt "big" and dangerous and open and you dare don't venture too far if you are a tiny taru whm alone in Vanadiel....

In FFXI, you could *normally* run in great distances in all directions for extended periods of time, and the topography created the feel of truly being in a "world."  Aion has great topography and the zone designs are excellent, but it makes me feel more like a rat navigating a fairly predictable maze rather than an adventurer exploring the unknown.

Aion, for all of its great features, feels like you are in "zones", not worlds.  It takes a step backward in this regard compared to some of the other MMO's out, but most games don't give you that "open" feel like FFXI does/did either, so it's a small complaint and I feel MMO's, and games in general, have steadily progressed in this respect, though there's still a lot of room for improvement.

And, I just can't help it... especially with your pictures above.

But, we gotta rock out, moogle style!!


I would like them to be a playable race in the game if only to hear LFG shouts (by RP'ers in the know) like this one:

"I'm your boss, kupo! You're gonna join us, kupo!!!"

~Mog, FFVI

Now *that* is one PUG I would be glad to be a part of... ;^_^

yes, because I'm sure the Star Vault devs have zero prior experiences in the gaming industry that we can look too.  And while the Medici could look at past works, they still took gambles when comissioning artists to work on projects that weren't exactly in their field of expertise (e.g., the Sistine Chapel painted by MIchelangelo, most noted for his work in marble/sculpture, not painting).

My point is that there are many cases of people supporting the arts on little more than faith.  Granted, you can look at the artist's prior works (as one could probably look up the resumes of individual Star Vault devs to get a sense of what they have already accomplished), but past performance is by no means a guarantee of future success.

Whether you are supporting a relative unknown, or an established great, supporting the arts = an act of faith.  That was the only point I was trying to make, chasing parked cars or not.

Originally posted by spankybus

people paying for anything sight-unseen = sucker


Yeah, according to your line of thinking the Medici = biggest suckers ever... and I, and the rest of the world, are grateful for that.

Their willingness to comission great works of art without any idea how they would turn out changed the world.  Of course, I have no idea how all of this will turn out vis a vis Mortal Online, but people paying in advance for the promise of something to come is a good thing.

Sure, some get taken to the cleaners for their troubles (moreso than not in this particular gaming genre), but some also get a sense of satisfaction when gazing at some masterpiece that their faith and support helped bring into the world.

Sometimes helpling an artistic vision come to fruition is a sucker's bet, and at other times, you come out of it looking like a genius and the world owes you, and the artist, a pat on the back.

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