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All Posts by MustaphaMond

All Posts by MustaphaMond

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319 posts found

When I watched the review thread by Entaro (posted earlier by CyclopsSlay), the videos of sailing made me *REALLY* want to play. I've long been a fan of nautical style games (i.e., Uncharted Waters, New Horizons, Sid Meier's Pirate) and I found PotBS a letdown (and never tried UWO). I like that this game has that feel of nautical exploration (and players who became very geared toward sailing could probably do some amazing things and be pirates or even privateers of some sort. In short, can't wait :)

Originally posted by paterah
Originally posted by Shadanwolf

If  siege conflict is schedualed in the released form of the game....I have zero interest.Persistent world 24/7 conflict....not staged mini-games is what I'M looking for.

siege conflict IS persistent.


I think Shadanwolf is referring to this (which, as I understand it, is problematic):


In order to be able to declare war and participate in a siege you must obtain a special drop from the raid boss on the third continent. Sieges only take place on the weekends and last for two hours. You can only have one attacking and one defending expeditionary force. Each side can currently have only 50 players participating (there are some rumors that if things go well that they will boost it to at least 100 vs. 100). If you're not signed up for the siege or if the player limit goes above the allotted amount you will simply be teleported back to the nearest resurrection shrine if you try to enter the siege area.


Perhaps that's not what he/she means, though. And, if I've misunderstood XLGames' intended design for sieges, I'd appreciate some clarification. I also would like to see it persistent/continual contests with no special drop requirement or cap on the number of participants. I can see why that they picked the weekend + two hour time limit though so that people aren't having to defend 24/7 (like in DAoC's RvR), but I can also see the drawbacks of territories not being perpetually up for grabs too (e.g., it would make for great fun to plan and successfully carry out attacks in the middle of the night when sieges aren't properly defended because nobody is around... if you could muster the force to pull it off, that is). From what I've read about taxing and demolishing structures within the claimed territory, it sounds like a cool feature. Entaro's writeup mentions that many of the details aren't finalized, however, so I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Originally posted by snapfusion
Originally posted by Sylvarii

Think they really have given the dwarfs that western feel,this could come from any western MMO.


And then the new eastern themed humans..


Apprently the Haritharans humans and the more western Nuians humans hate each others gut,what for know one knows yet.


I was interested until Michael Jackson showed up in the third picture.............


Did you even bother to watch any of the character creation videos ???


While some of the (limited) models available in CB probably don't appeal to you, there are some (the human at the very start) that look pretty standard/"normal."


So, I don't really understand... do you not like the *CONCEPT ART* above because you think your toon would *have* to look like that? Or do you just think nobody else should be able to look like that if they wanted to?


P.S. At risk of being a total jerk, you really think MJ (at any stage of his career) looked like that? If so, please see an optician.... immediately! (and I sure hope you don't drive there) xP

This thread deserves to be bumped. All I can say is OMFG! this game looks absolutely gorgeous! I am so excited for it to see NA release (fingers cross that it happens). And I hope it happens sooner rather than later. I guess it goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway: Thanks SO MUCH for posting this, CyclopsSlay! And Entaro (the OP on deserves kudos too.


In short, I'd urge anybody interested in exploring vast and open virtual worlds to have a look and start seriously following this game. The feeling of exploring an actual virtual world, above all other things, is what initially drew me into MMORPGs (and is what I think many of us feel is missing from the genre at the moment). For a long time I've been saying to friends that I wish we had an MMORPG with the same open-world and non-linear feel of games like Ico or Shadows of Colossus (even though those are older games). This is the first game I've seen that really gives me that feeling.... and it defintely takes my breath away. I realize it might take awhile for this game to come out over here, but I will still be waiting for it on the edge of my seat. To be honest, it makes me wish I could read/write Korean. I hope any of you who are able to participate in the CB are having a blast.


A few of my impressions/reactions to Entaro's OP will follow at a later time. These will just be the thoughts and gut reactions of an older MMO player who still longs for the open-ended feel that UO gave me back in the late 90's. I will respond to Entaro's post section by section (as I explore them), so my apologies if that turns into a massive post. I realize few read walls of text, but I want to post it even if it's only for myself.


With that being said.... Thanks again, CyclopsSlay for linking to some great info. Back to reading Entaro's OP and dreaming about playing this potential masterpiece.

Archeage released soon? DO WANT!

Civ IV: BtS (Civ 5 was an enormous disappointment imo)


P.S. What's up with so many ppl putting console games? Did I miss something? >.>;

P.S. WTG @Adam Tingle (author of the article) for his "nice articles" getting shoutouts on Raph's twitter and blog :)

Originally posted by nobottters

Please burn this article, it is so fabricated, and wolves woodnt need to eat rabbits.

From Raph's blog about Adam Tingle's write up:

I think I have told this story before, but the whole “dragons eating deer” example came from the design samples that my wife and I sent in as part of our job applications. We showed up on the first day and were taken aback when we were told that was how the game was going to work… So at least that much of the notion of “what the game was going to be” was set in 1995…

That crazy resource system stuff, particularly some of the AI, did in fact work in the alpha test. It led to rabbits that had levelled up and were capable of taking out wolves — or advanced players. We found this intensely amusing, and quoted Monty Python at each other whenever it came up.


And now, some exclusive never-seen-before footage of an elite guild raid against the most "foul, cruel, and bad-tempered rodent you've ever set eyes on!": Killer Bunny Raid




Originally posted by Indol
Another thing I just remembered was the fact that 'somehow' *cough cough* a guildmate got hold of a recall rune that led to the GM testing area known as 'Green Acres' which was just a giant flat grassland where they presumably tested things.

After a little while some runes started circulating 'somehow' and once a couple dozen of us had them we started holding various events there like the UOlympics which consisted of all kinds of wacky events like teleport races, pet dragon battles, hide and seek, left-handed pvp (right-handed if you were a lefty) and the like.

Ridiculousness ensued and we had a BALL!  Some people went so far as to build houses there (including an idiot who built a castle which cost an arm and a leg haha) even though they quickly got deleted. Eventually we were tossed in counselor jail and they fixed the whole thing but while it lasted it was such a blast. We continued such events in the regular world sometimes for awhile afterwards but those first few in green acres were the best.

One more crazy memory! For about an hour one day after a patch early on in the game's life almost everything in the game became dyeable. The. Insanity. Right away Britain resembled a nauseating circus of blues pinks greens and browns and we loved it haha. Naturally they took the shards down and reverted the items back to their original colors but it was highly entertaining while it lasted.

I was just a casual novice player so I never had the joy of experiencing these things, so thank you for sharing. In particular, the ones above made me LOL hard... especially the thought of psychadelic Britain.... groooovy, man ;D

Originally posted by Vedra

EGM has been garbage for a long time:

Yeah, I noticed when it was acquired by Ziff Davis in the late 90's and they tried to make the magazine more "serious," it lost a lot of the irreverence, fun, and critical edge that it had in the early to mid-90's. That was about the time I stopped reading it and gave up on print magazines altogether (except for maybe Wired and that was only because of its connection to The Well and, by proxy, The Whole Earth Catalogue). Magazines, at least in print form, will disappear entirely from daily life within the next few decades. Even the younger members here will be able to tell their kids about what it was like "back in the day" when their was a whole section in the supermarket devoted to 'em.

(but early/mid-90's Sushi-X will *still* survive)

Originally posted by Raph

I blogged some glosses, annotations, errata, and clarifications. :)

Made your link clickable. Thanks for adding more details/info. (;^__^)

Originally posted by Raph

I blogged some glosses, annotations, errata, and clarifications. :)

Ladies and germs, say "hello" to a bonafide Wizard... ;D

In honor of what EGM used to be (early/mid-90's), THIS is what a 9/10 game (and a decent game magazine) looked like:


Originally posted by RajCaj
Originally posted by kazdum

I was reading a interview, with what i believe is the lead developer of Guild Wars 2, he made it in 2007 and one of the things he said was "to enter in the MMO market you better have at least a 50 developer team and 40 million dollars".

40 million dollars is alot of money, and since im really clueless about any computer developed stuff, i want to understand whats the really expensive part of it?


There is no conspiricy against indie just costs a lot of money to make MMOs these days.


Look at the changes in the market since the days of UO...


 Competition, Competition, Competition

Ultima Online & Everquest didn't have a FRACTION of the competition that new MMORPGs today have.  There were no Free 2 Play alternatives, no easy mode alternatives, etc.  Don't like the lag, with it or don't play anything.  Don't like a particular mechanic or system within the game, with it or don't play anything.

Now that there are more options for games that release MUST have a smooth launch, and MUST have a high level of polish.  Making sure most of the bugs are removed, and having all the t's crossed and i's dotted take a lot of time & money.  The fickle playerbase today don't give many second chances.


Game Development Model

New MMORPGs follow a more linear, or themepark, development model.  This differs from the old "Sandbox" games in that the developer is responsible for creating all the content for the players, instead of the players creating their own content with ingame tools.  This puts the software in a constant development lifecycle.  As soon as the developers finish coding & releaseing a content update or expansion, they have to immediately get started on the next content update / expansion to keep up with the rate the players are consuming content.  AND....with the push to increase subscribers, the level of difficulty of the content goes down.  As the difficulty goes down, the faster the players consume content....and create additional strain on developer resources.


Different Audience

You have a much larger audience playing "MMORPG" games these days...many of which would not consider themselves "gamers", but people that play games.  In order to appeal to this large diverse base of players, you have to focus on areas not directly related to having world renown composers & orchestras to lay down the sound track.  You also have to have really "pretty" graphics....which include using high tech 3D engines, and hiring support personnel to create the textures, animations, etc.

This audience also doesn't like to wait on things....specifically grouping, so you need complicated network technology that allows players from across servers to group together for instances, etc.


Essentially.....Themepark gaming (to cater to the masses) has a MUCH higher overhead because of factors not related to game play (sound, art, ease of access) .   

^this is the best answer of the thread. Also, Loktofeit is correct to point out the games of today are vastly more expensive to make than the titles that started the genre (e.g., DAoC).

The simplest explanation boils it down to three words: race to "quality." <--- "quality" being a very subjective term, obviously

Want an industry insider's (and MMORPG designer legend's) opinion on the matter? In a 2011 interview, Raph Koster just so happened to explain the general reasons why the costs are skyrocketing and indie studios have it very tough in today's marketplace (starting at 26:00, ending around 31:49):

Sorry that isn't a specific answer, but I think it is a good summary and overall explanation of what is happening to the game industry in general, to MMORPG's specifically, and why the enormous publishers are squeezing out so many of the smaller companies and it costs so much to make a "AAA" title.

Originally posted by Venom2506

So that's the result of sharing one's opinion on the net? It takes guts, being ready to face that torrent of filth. If only for that, Pokket gets my respect. That aside, well, her opinion's her opinion, and everybody's entitled to one. She's also a player trying a game, how'd you expect her to know every rope of the game? It's, and I'll put it in bold, a First Impression of a Beta. People, really?

So you mean to tell me if I made videos of myself claiming to be a great driver of cars with manual transmissions (i.e., stick shifts), you would give me a pass if I made a "first impression" video of myself driving some new model car and, all the while, I kept grinding the gears while I drove it? That's what I feel like I'm seeing in her video (i.e., somebody who claims to have gaming background who doesn't know how to do some very BASIC things like changing camera view).

It is HIGHLY SUSPECT that she claims to have played Aion (and a bunch of other MMO's), but she apparently doesn't know how to change the camera view. Anybody with *any* amount of experience with some of the big AAA titles can generally figure out how to change the camera of a new title within 5 minutes of playing it as long as it follows pretty standardized controls (which it appears TERA does).

It's not expecting her to "know every rope of the game" at all (nice strawman there, btw). It's being surprised and calling bullshit when she doesn't know how to operate one of the most basic controls. It's seeing past her gender and actually questioning the so-called "content" of what she has to offer.

Again, would you trust my "impressions" of a new model car if the entire time I drive it I grind the gears and keep stalling it...? Do I really know what I am talking about if I can't even shift properly (something that, after you learn how to do it, becomes almost second nature)...?

Or, are you going to wake up and realize that MAYBE my claims of knowledge about driving all kinds of (manual transmission) cars don't make sense because anybody who can drive a stick will eventually figure out how to shift properly on a new car, even if they screw up a few times at the beginning while adjusting to an unfamiliar clutch...? I know what I would think if a person with background driving sticks can't drive one worth a shit, even if it's a new model. Some things don't require a lot of time to pick up if you already know how to do them from past experiences.... =/

P.S. @BizkitNL -- She calls it a "review" at one point.... Just look at the last sentence in her own post (#96)....

Originally posted by maplestone

As an aside, I constantly ask myself why I can't just shut up and walk away from these topics rather than reopenning old cans of worms :(

This might be an old debate, but it's one of my favorites. The issue of open PvP vs. some kind of "toggle/switch" to turn it on and off is an issue that predates MMORPG's (as you're probably aware). It's actually really cool you brought it up.

In this rather sad post about the death/suicide of Jeff  "Dundee" Freeman, Koster discusses arguing with Dundee about this very issue on the r.g.c.u.o. newsgroups.

The debate led to Koster guiding Dundee to resources which allowed Dundee to ultimately create a shard where the players themselves policed the problem and the coding (more or less) successfully made the life of a PK short-lived (therefore PKs became a very rare/short-lived breed).

Also, I can't remember where it was, but I've seen and read Koster discuss how he wished the UO team would have pursued this playerbased community policing system more vigorously rather than looking to greater GM involvement and, ultimately, adopting the "fixes" of trammel (and the other ineffective approaches they tried for solving the problem).

And, hey... I hope you really don't shut up about something like this. As you can see, even Raph (who was/is pretty pro-open PvP/PK) conceded to Dundee's point that the PK's in UO were out of control and were infringing upon the rights of others to have freedom and choice in the game.

While personally I think it added a great deal to the game, it truly was a major problem too. In my zealous support for open PvP, I conveniently omitted the fact that I, as a novice player of no importance, ultimately ragequit UO after getting ganked and robbed after farming earth golems (?) in a dungeon somewhat close to Yew.

I guess it's safe to say that both sides have a valid point. I just think the focus should shift away from the all-or-none approach to open PvP FFA vs. having a swith (or pure PvE) to a more player community-driven solution. That would require work and a lot of creativity on the part of devs, though... and we all know how abundant those two things are in this genre at the moment =/

Just the same, you have a very valid point and I didn't mean to come on so strong. I just find this topic fascinating and one of the core questions of MMORPG design that I feel devs have just given up on (deeming it unsolvable), when it's still debate-worthy and something worth thinking about (at least to me).

I haven't followed EGM for years, but there was a time (at least long ago) when their reviews and write ups of games were some of the best (at least for console gaming).

For a game to get a "9" was extremely rare. In fact, some of the best games I've ever played received 8's and 8.5's because they *did* have flaws. EGM was critical and honest, but explained they were still great games despite the shortcomings and less than perfect scores.

You could count on one hand the number of games that received a 9 or higher for the ENTIRE YEAR (and this was for all the major consoles of the day). My, my, my... how the mighty have fallen.

Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by maplestone

Originally posted by Garvon3

But... having them all together is what made Ultima Online great. You had all different play styles together in the same place. It was a simulated world. They just needed a better incentive system for NOT killing people.

I can also honestly say that not a single PKer, thief or griefer provided me with one second of entertainment.   That was (and still is) the complete and utter antithesis of what an MMO is to me.  Cooperation, community, a shared sense of purpose of *all* players at the table - those to me are defining features of the pencil-and-paper culture I knew and wanted the first time I logged into UO.  PvP has no place in that.

( to be fair, there was a time when I was opposed to the idea of seperate PvP and PvE servers because I did appreciate the background news and "trade goods from distant lands" feel of having a PvP zone (Fel) that I never visited, but over the years I've slowly come around to the conclusion that the two playstyles, the two worldviews are simply incompatable - I now believe that the game should have been forked completely - not just two facets or two types of servers but take two copies of the codebase, give them to seperate teams and let two completely seperate games emerge )

I have a different opinion. PKers gave me a sense of danger in the wilderness and a sense of immersion into the world. They were a part of the ecosystem. Danger is one of the things I liked about early MMOs. EverQuest also had a dangerous world. It forced communities to come together and made the whole game make sense. I was part of a guild that hunted player killers, never would have been able to be a "defender of innocents" if there were no PKers. I can understand how it can make some people unhappy, but I feel like someone who doesn't like anyone "interfering" or altering their gameplay, would be better suited in a different game, because thats not what UO was. It was a complete social ecosystem, not just a club of like minded individuals. Which, is how we both played the same game and have wildly different opinions.

^This... In fact, it was an actual intention of the devs that PK's (and the danger of getting PK'ed) would force blues to group together and seek strength in number. Garvon3 is, more or less, showing that much of what Raph Koster and the UO team intended with the PK system worked (for more, see his blog ... I can't find the specific article/video where he talks about it, sorry). In essence, the presence of Reds helped build community and create a dynamism where players could change the world (I've seen others mention this earlier in this thread and the "Part 1" thread... perhaps it was Garvon3 then too).


That's not to say that the system wasn't broken in many respects (Koster admits this as well, citing examples of the in-game bulletin board/bounty system actually spawning a wave of murders as PKs competed to be the baddest Red on the block -- see the 43:00 minute mark of this GDCOnline talk). So, maplestone does have a point though Koster does talk a lot about why he personally favors open PvP versus a "switch" or no PvP at all around 17:00 - 22:00 HERE. But,even in that video, he explains why the PvP mechanic was broken because the MUD/MUSH/MOO-inspired devs had never dealt with such an enormous playerbase in their earlier experience. Still, I think Garvon3 has it right because the whole Red vs Blue dynamic brought the "unknown" into the mix in a way that contemporary games do not.


For example, one of my most thrilling moments in game was when my guildmates staged a scenario in the graveyard just outside of Moonglow to test my mettle. I was young and naive, they kept suggesting to me that I visit Moonglow. One day, I finally did. I was exploring the graveyard when another blue approached. As I greeted them and we started to talk, a Red appeared, attacked the Blue and "shouted" 'DEFEND THE VIRTUOUS!' (I was part of a virtuous guild). In that brief second, I had a choice to either stand and fight or run away and let the "innocent" die....


I stood and fought, almost dying several times (I was a novice and no match for anybody who knew what they were doing), but the Blue had enough time to hide and once they were safe, I disengaged and hid as well. But, I took the risk to break my stealth to say "Log and come back later, I am too weak to fight him!" to the now stealthed Blue before hoping I could hide again (which I managed to do, just barely). I was too dumb at the time to realize it was all staged, but at that moment I felt great about myself even though, in all honesty, I was lucky to have achieved a "stalemate" and I hadn't met an honorable death like I probably should have.


Still, that guild (and playing in a game environment where Reds could, and did, appear like that ) created a deep sense of thrill and unimaginable opportunities for bravery and excitement. What is more, staged or not, it allowed my guildies (all RP'ers and much better gamers than I was) to gauge my heart as a player and ignore my obvious shortcomings in skill, RP'ing ability, and overall knowledge (I was maybe 15 at the time and they were all much more experienced gamers/RP'ers).


The TL;DR moral of the story: With risk comes reward and when you create a virtual world without the dynamic risk that open PvP provides, you lose out on that sense of excitement and the unpredictability of playing against humans. Granted, I was ganked on occasion and died in dungeons at times (and had unscrupulous players loot my hard-earned bounty and chop my body into pieces for no other reason than to be jerks), but the reason UO stood out to me is that it allowed for the unexpected and you truly had a sense that something new was always waiting for you just around the next bend...


For a few more thoughts on this, one last link to something by Raph Koster that examines BOTH sides of the pro-PK/anti-PK debate:

Originally posted by BrokenSpoon

This was not a review..... it is her impression on the game so stop your whining! 

On page 10 of this very thread she calls it a review... maybe a mistake, but it's not like the confusion of others is coming from thin air when the author of the "impression" labels it a review...

Originally posted by Pokket
While I have been corrected on some fronts, I feel as though I achieved my goal in giving a fair and unbiased review of a soon-to-launch MMO.


Originally posted by demisedone

Personally being an extremely experienced gamer, i expect reviews like this to be researched and carelly thought out. Kind of like being a journalist for a game. If you want people to respect and follow your words you need to be right and creative. I dont doubt that Pokket is a bad gamer or reviewer regardless if she is or not, this perticular one was really bad. The focus of the review should have been on different details and features the game has to offer. The ones she picked out were bad examples. She missed out on a TON of awesome unique features that make TERA the game that it is. Also any wrong information is really bad. Its better to not say anything on the subject if you're not 100% than take a guess when it could be wrong. Assumptions are bad.

What I don't understand is some of the erroneous information makes no sense. She mentions in a different video of hers that she played as a healer (Cleric) in Aion, and considering Tera's similarity to Aion, I just can't grasp how she doesn't know how to move the camera, view her quest log, and/or cancel skill-casting.

I admit, I haven't played Tera but it looks so similar to Aion (except the combat) that I can't imagine the camera and other features are really *that* different between the two. It's just sloppy, no matter how you spin it, especially by a gamer who purportedly played the game that Tera borrows/steals from so heavily.... =/

Originally posted by shakermaker0

Adam Tingle here - I understand your point and would probably admit I have omitted MUDs somewhat, as Ultima Online, from my research, was more of a continuation of development from the series rather than taken from MUDS entirely such as DikuMUD and Neverwinter - but you are correct, the game does owe a wealth of gratitude to these early games, but the concept wasnt entirely sprung from these games.


Sorry, I didn't mean to target you or your article specifically. This topic is such an expansive one, I've just noticed that MUDs kinda get left out no matter who is trying to tackle it. I realize you actually did mention that gamers had to settle for DnD style tabletop gaming and MUDs in your "Part 1" and that is an improvement over most. The fact that you mention Raph Koster deserves huge kudos (I'm always shocked when I read articles about UO and Richard Garriott is all that is mentioned, not to take anything away from Lord British either).

You did a great job, honestly, especially since you are just giving an overview of a very complex topic. I still cringe to know that Raph is focused exlusively on social gaming now, but maybe he'll be able to work some kind of magic again in that genre (and produce something of exceptional depth and quality where most of us see nothing but shallow/soulless gaming like Farmville). That's a topic for a different discussion, though.


Still, any writer who includes Raph, his wife, Starr Long and acknowledges the entire dev team (because the project was such a group effort) is quality in my book. "You done good", imho. :)


*Edited to include:

"Pretty much the whole MMORPG industry was inspired by text MUDs."

~Raph Koster

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