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All Posts by Magiknight

All Posts by Magiknight

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675 posts found
How do you "dumb down" games where you just smash buttons as fast as you can? Street Fighter was less dumb.
I like the columns the OP writes. He gets what set MMOs apart.
FFXI should definitely be on the list. I don't know if I would call it more difficult then EQ. There are some real horror stories about EQ. People would die in places and not be able to recover their corpse. It's a close call. FFXI, in general, was harder to level and craft.

The author is dead on. I've said this like a 100 times in my rants about modern MMOs.

Bring back class dependencies!

Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Magiknight
Originally posted by Eronakis
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Eronakis
It's appalling of how many comments on this thread are "what I say is correct and fact".

"It does work. There is a market for it for sure." - a poster in this thread

That was based of the poll of this thread. I should've been more clear. I don't know how big this market is for this niche. There is one. Is it big enough for a title? I don't know. You don't know either.

People always turn this matter into a question of its economic feasibility. I always look at it as a cultural question. I could care less whether the company that makes the right MMO for me makes 100s of millions of 10s of millions or millions or a million or nothing. For instance, take single player games. I wont touch GTA no matter how much money it has made. It's garbage no matter how many people buy it and play it. Games like Primordia, on the order hand....

Whether or not a person not making it cares if it is a profitable venture is irrelevant. 

99% of the people here are not developing a game in any way and they always discuss it's economic feasibility. We should all probably drop the topic of it being economically feasible.

Originally posted by Eronakis
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Eronakis
It's appalling of how many comments on this thread are "what I say is correct and fact".

"It does work. There is a market for it for sure." - a poster in this thread

 

 

That was based of the poll of this thread. I should've been more clear. I don't know how big this market is for this niche. There is one. Is it big enough for a title? I don't know. You don't know either.

People always turn this matter into a question of its economic feasibility. I always look at it as a cultural question. I could care less whether the company that makes the right MMO for me makes 100s of millions of 10s of millions or millions or a million or nothing. For instance, take single player games. I wont touch GTA no matter how much money it has made. It's garbage no matter how many people buy it and play it. Games like Primordia, on the order hand....

Sounds like the OP should be making an MMO. I'd play it.
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by sludgebeard
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Magiknight
 

Death penalties matter because it makes the world dangerous. If you're loosing gear or levels when you die and it takes a lot to get the gear or levels then you're going to think about what you're doing and who you're doing it with. Dying in WoW amounted to loosing money that took you 15 minutes to get. Hence it's inconsequential. Looking a level when you die or some gear means that now you might not even be able to do what you were trying to do when you died. It makes it a world because it creates a cyclic play style. WoW had a linear play style.

 

 

Hence, a big DP will reduces exploration, risk taking, and players will be less likely to try out new build/combat style just because they worry about losing stuff.

No wonder most games have light penalty to encourage experimentation. Even D3 ... with its optional PD ... players are testing builds in soft-core before using it in HC.

 

I have to disagree with you here, to date almost all of the MMos with harsh death penalty didn't hinder exploration at all for the player base. I think what you are referring to is hindering "solo exploration", which again is the principle different in this discussion that many are avoiding.

EQ was not made for the Solo player, Exploring without a group could defiently get you killed and if you expected to play the game solo you weren't playing the game the way it was constructed. Don't get me wrong there's times in EQ where certain classes can solo but that isn't what the premise/mechanics dictate from a normal play session.

 

imagine playing DnD solo? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense does it? The same principle can be applied to EQ. I'm sorry but MMOs don't need to be creates to appease solo gamers, they are a big market yes, but again you can have a perfectly successful game without catering to there demographic.

A game should cater to all playstyles not just your own... there should be areas where exploration is highly dangerous and others where there aren't , there should be safe areas where you can do solo work and frontier zones where you need others, etc,etc,etc. The way you guys go about it you want a hyper niche title for people who want to play Dark Souls online with others.

There is no such thing as a game that caters to everyone. To cater to everyone it would have to cater to no one.

Originally posted by SavageHorizon

Those that only play mmo's are missing out on some great games.

 

Xenoblade is a great single player game with MMO elements or elements that would be best suited for MMOs. It works as a single player game, but would be an amazing MMO.

Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Magiknight
 

Death penalties matter because it makes the world dangerous. If you're loosing gear or levels when you die and it takes a lot to get the gear or levels then you're going to think about what you're doing and who you're doing it with. Dying in WoW amounted to loosing money that took you 15 minutes to get. Hence it's inconsequential. Looking a level when you die or some gear means that now you might not even be able to do what you were trying to do when you died. It makes it a world because it creates a cyclic play style. WoW had a linear play style.

 

 

Hence, a big DP will reduces exploration, risk taking, and players will be less likely to try out new build/combat style just because they worry about losing stuff.

No wonder most games have light penalty to encourage experimentation. Even D3 ... with its optional PD ... players are testing builds in soft-core before using it in HC.

 

If the game is hard then you will have to innovate, DP or no DP. You might HAVE to travel from one city to another and it might be very dangerous. Some people will die on the way and suffer the harsh death penalty. Other people will hear about this and look for ways to avoid dying on the journey. People will spread word about how they completed the journey and maybe even help those who still need to do it. This creates community. I hate 99% of online communities, because they aren't communities, but MMOs used to have communities.

Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Magiknight
 

You never played a good MMO. A good MMO is a world that you live in. I know there are dozens of good single player games that you would play for a few months and then you're done with it. That's not the way a MMO works. You've made a commitment to your character and the world that he or she is in.

You're wrong :) Because you're assuming MMOs and single player games are the same other than the number of people that play. Now, modern MMOs are like you're describing and they suck.

nah .. "good" is subjective. A good MMO, to me, is like a good SP game with good solo content.

Your "good" does not apply to me.

 

Yes it is subjective.

 

Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by Magiknight
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by Magiknight
Originally posted by Dihoru
So EQ was a non-structured theme park and wow a structured one. Do not get drunk with memories both games are responsible for the last decade of rehashed theme parks, a genre EQ arguably founded, and the neglect of the sandbox genre because EQ is easier to make than an EVE or UO well let alone how piss easy a structured theme park like WoW.

WoW and EQ are totally different games. Classifying them both as a themepark is misleading. EQ was a world. Wow is something else.......nothing good....

:)) Played both (even went so far as to try the private server that tries to recapture the old feeling of EQ) and I can tell you quite honestly: Both are worlds just that one tells you what to do the other just throws you in and hopes you can swim.

One has instances, one does not. One has (had?) a harsh death penalty, the other does not. One has actual classes, the other has classes that are all hybrids. One makes you depend on other people, the other you can solo to endgame. One take you by the hand from the moment you log in to end game, the other is a world for you to explore. One had danger, in the sense that everything you were doing could be for nothing, if you failed in the other game it was no big deal. One has you smash buttons non stop, the other doesn't.

-sighs- if you are referring to vanilla WoW vs vanilla EQ you should revisit your opinion, the only thing correct about what you said was WoW had instances. The death penalty in WoW isn't as severe but how is that making the game a world? You list allot of difference which aren't mechanics and by what I remember EQ had 1-2 classes which could solo to endgame as well whereas in WoW there were a couple which were piss easy to but others were massive pains to. The differences are superficial, nowhere near those between EQ and UO, EQ and SWG and EQ and EVE-Online.

Death penalties matter because it makes the world dangerous. If you're loosing gear or levels when you die and it takes a lot to get the gear or levels then you're going to think about what you're doing and who you're doing it with. Dying in WoW amounted to loosing money that took you 15 minutes to get. Hence it's inconsequential. Looking a level when you die or some gear means that now you might not even be able to do what you were trying to do when you died. It makes it a world because it creates a cyclic play style. WoW had a linear play style.

 

 

Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Magiknight
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by UsualSuspect

When I think about it, the only thing I really want from original EQ is the need to group. I'm so tired of all these solo based MMO's, let's actually have an MMO that deserves to be online. I mean, seriously, why build an online game if the only thing you're going to do online is walk past another player and say Hi on the way. It's completely pointless.

 

Pointless to you ... what many others like.

That is no difference than lobby games, which i bet is also "pointless" to you.

 

A lobby game shouldn't be an MMO. They should be separate. Lobby games can be lobby games and MMOs can be MMOs

Says you.

MMO devs clearly disagree since many MMOs are lobby games, or have lobby features.

 

Yep

Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by Magiknight
Originally posted by Dihoru
So EQ was a non-structured theme park and wow a structured one. Do not get drunk with memories both games are responsible for the last decade of rehashed theme parks, a genre EQ arguably founded, and the neglect of the sandbox genre because EQ is easier to make than an EVE or UO well let alone how piss easy a structured theme park like WoW.

WoW and EQ are totally different games. Classifying them both as a themepark is misleading. EQ was a world. Wow is something else.......nothing good....

:)) Played both (even went so far as to try the private server that tries to recapture the old feeling of EQ) and I can tell you quite honestly: Both are worlds just that one tells you what to do the other just throws you in and hopes you can swim.

One has instances, one does not. One has (had?) a harsh death penalty, the other does not. One has actual classes, the other has classes that are all hybrids. One makes you depend on other people, the other you can solo to endgame. One take you by the hand from the moment you log in to end game, the other is a world for you to explore. One had danger, in the sense that everything you were doing could be for nothing, if you failed in the other game it was no big deal. One has you smash buttons non stop, the other doesn't.

Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by UsualSuspect

When I think about it, the only thing I really want from original EQ is the need to group. I'm so tired of all these solo based MMO's, let's actually have an MMO that deserves to be online. I mean, seriously, why build an online game if the only thing you're going to do online is walk past another player and say Hi on the way. It's completely pointless.

 

Pointless to you ... what many others like.

That is no difference than lobby games, which i bet is also "pointless" to you.

 

A lobby game shouldn't be an MMO. They should be separate. Lobby games can be lobby games and MMOs can be MMOs

Originally posted by Dihoru
So EQ was a non-structured theme park and wow a structured one. Do not get drunk with memories both games are responsible for the last decade of rehashed theme parks, a genre EQ arguably founded, and the neglect of the sandbox genre because EQ is easier to make than an EVE or UO well let alone how piss easy a structured theme park like WoW.

WoW and EQ are totally different games. Classifying them both as a themepark is misleading. EQ was a world. Wow is something else.......nothing good....

Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Flyte27
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Flyte27
 

I'm not a huge fan of waiting these days either, but that shows I've lost some of my patience.  I believe having to rest and heal after a fighter is more realistic (doesn't kill immersion) and find that getting your health/magic back to full after a fight is dumb.  I'd rather have something in between.  Make it so your health and magic don't come back.  You have to go to a town and rest to get it back.  Let the player restore health (but not magic via potions(but has a finite amount)).  They can also restore via magic if they have spells.  This would mean people don't have to rest all the time, but they also can't keep killing non stop.  Eventually they have to town and restock/rest. 

Really? More boring stuff before players can really play.

And why would "realistic" be desirable in video games where the goal is to entertain. I laugh out loud when people put "realism" and "magic" in the same paragraph.

I say it is super realistic to take 2 second to charge all the mana back because that is how "realistic" magic work. If you don't believe me, ask David Copperfield.

 

I don't really understand how you are entertained by non stop mindless killing in most cases, but it seems those are the games you like.  I'm attempting to put some measure of strategy into the gaming without having the burden of having to sit constantly.  The strategy I put up there would be great for a non instanced game IMO.  It would stop people from camping and force them to think about what they are doing instead of mindlessly running around and clicking on exclamation marks/following GPS.  They would have to plan their trip, how long it will take, and how far they can go before coming back.  To me this would be a lot more entertaining then what you see in a game like Diablo 3.  I'd also like to see more choices in combat.  Have different equipment for different and combat abilities for different situations, but only allow you to use a finite amount of abilities at once.  That at least makes you figure out what will work and won't work.  Magic is a source to me, but it is only for magic users.  Health is a determination of how much one can take before death.  Magic can restore health, but health doesn't just regenerate back to full after a fight IMO.  Can it be that way?  Sure it can be any way a developer wants it to be, but it sure doesn't make any sense to me and it detracts from the game for me.

I really don't understand how you are confused between "strategy" and "boring and easy mode down time". Is there any strategy in waiting for regen .. i think not.

Now strategy in using skills, optimizing DPS, those I am all for .. waiting .. not so much.

 

What your describing amounts to rushing to endgame to get the best gear and smashing buttons as fast as you can.

Originally posted by Alders
Originally posted by Flyte27
Originally posted by Dreamo84

The overly nostalgic always leave out the grinding a mob spawn for days at a time waiting for a loot drop or for EXP.

I don't think you would actually find this fun anymore. Yes, people talked during the down time and made friends, but only because you had nothing else to do. Questing and a faster pacing was a direct response to people not wanting to wait for 10 minutes in between every fight and sit there killing the same mobs over and over and over. Waiting for mobs to spawn kills my immersion.

I'm not a huge fan of waiting these days either, but that shows I've lost some of my patience.  I believe having to rest and heal after a fighter is more realistic (doesn't kill immersion) and find that getting your health/magic back to full after a fight is dumb.  I'd rather have something in between.  Make it so your health and magic don't come back.  You have to go to a town and rest to get it back.  Let the player restore health (but not magic via potions(but has a finite amount)).  They can also restore via magic if they have spells.  This would mean people don't have to rest all the time, but they also can't keep killing non stop.  Eventually they have to town and restock/rest. 

Or, you know, implement support classes back into MMO's that take care of mana and health regen.  I'd love to play a proper bard today and just focus on mana regen and debuffing mobs.

Yes please

Originally posted by Jemcrystal

I played Skyrim (non-mmo) about 6 mos and left never to return.  Loved it!   No one is shocked that I'm no longer playing.  Why aren't people angry?  What makes people think just because a game is an mmo you must stay with it forever or the game is trash?  Skyrim wasn't trash but it didn't hold the majority of us for long.  Are we anxious corporate will not make enough money in a short term mmo?  Do we believe quality goes up over time like an aged wine?  What I'm getting at is we seem to keep looking for some fault with our mmo wondering why it will not hold our fascination for years.  That's asking to much of any dev team.  We should move on and try new things.  Let another corporation step up to the plate and make money.  Am I right?

You never played a good MMO. A good MMO is a world that you live in. I know there are dozens of good single player games that you would play for a few months and then you're done with it. That's not the way a MMO works. You've made a commitment to your character and the world that he or she is in.

You're wrong :) Because you're assuming MMOs and single player games are the same other than the number of people that play. Now, modern MMOs are like you're describing and they suck.

Originally posted by GuyClinch


You guys do know that the guy who made EQ tried to bring it back with better graphics and his kickstarter failed. The reason no one Is doing this is because no one REALLY wants.

If they did they would be lining up to play archeage or still playing EQ. The truth is its a dead demographic. A small group of people want to bring EQ back (smaller then the number that originally played - which was pretty small!) and most of those people will find some random reason to hate on it. Oh they have quest now or maybe they have improved combat mechanics - maybe they will have voice acting. It could be anything..

The 40 something people that once played a slow MMO is not a good demographic to go after. Just let it go - try some of the new games - I mean REALLY try them. Try the end game - try different builds. You will find they can surprise you..

They changed EQ to be a modern MMO. How many times do I have to type that?

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