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All Posts by evianwater

All Posts by evianwater

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294 posts found
Originally posted by Jetrpg
Originally posted by nilden
Originally posted by Jetrpg
Originally posted by tkreep
UO and SWG did fine without levels

Odd i played SWG a lot and it had vertical character progression driven by exp ie levels. They were Vertical not horizontial this is the topic being disscussed not if their is an arbitrary term used called levels.


OP is right mmorpgs are made by their effective use of Vertical content .. not the other way around.

Really what level were you in SWG?

The last character i made was a level 120ish SP Commando/TKA and you?  Wow i played the game you?

You played the game post NGE...they added levels with NGE. Before NGE they had different sort of levels where you'd apply exp to skills of your choice for different classes. (Yes that still counts as levels..just with more player input)

Originally posted by tkreep
UO and SWG did fine without levels

UO had levels..they were called skills


SWG had levels (they even had exp) they were called skills.



I personally do prefer the SWG model, where you can pick and choose your skills and such in advancement trees and mix and match. EQN seems like it kind of has that..kind of.

Originally posted by ThomasN7
When all you have is a tech demo I don't think it was wise idea to show anyone without solid gameplay because first impressions are everything. SOE is their own worst enemy. Then again it wouldn't have mattered anyway, very few  like the art style and the GW2 style combat with only 8 skills per class. 

This is kind of how I feel..unless they are genuine about using the Roundtable to change the game. I'll believe that when they put something meaningful up there (like combat, classes, trinity, art style) instead of..."Do you like Ratonga?"

Originally posted by ThomasN7
When all you have is a tech demo I don't think it was wise idea to show anyone without solid gameplay because first impressions are everything. SOE is their own worst enemy. Then again it wouldn't have mattered anyway, very few  like the art style and the GW2 style combat with only 8 skills per class. 

Don't make assumptions. The vocal minority might not like the art style, but they picked it with good market research,


Also, the whole "8 skills" thing is the next phase of MMOs, Eq2 is stupid with how many skills you get, and its very difficult to balance. WoW has tons of just useless crap and a rotation of maybe 5 skills you use (that's being generous)


So the question became..all the fluff ? or just make it realistic.

Yeah, they really picked possibly the worst looking stylized character they could have in the looks just, so bad.
Originally posted by magickal32
I love how some people automatically condemn a game that is far from finished, and they have yet to try.  There are things I do like about Eqnext, and things I don't like, same with all games.  I think the "cartoony" graphics are a bonus.  I really don't see why so many people will hate on those type of graphics like that is what makes or breaks a game.  As long as the graphics aren't a total eyesore, gameplay is my primary concern.   I will reserve judgement for when I can actually try the game.

This is kind of the one has any idea how the game actually plays. It's all rampant speculation, and SOE needs to jump on it. They're aware of the comparisons to GW2 combat and have tried to stress while there are similarities it's not the same. That's kind of what its being condemned for most of all.

Thank you, can't friggin wait to play a monk-type class again.

I suppose it was all expected, I don't remember a time when there was ever as much positive reaction to anything here as the mounds of negativity.


I get the feeling that if Smedley saved a baby from a burning building people would say "He probably set the building on fire"


Or if EA donated millions to funding cancer research, people would opine "Yeah but you have to buy the Cure separately"




That said, to  what this post is actually about. I wanted to bring up a couple trends I've been noticing :


Everyone has their own opinion of what a sandbox is :

I mean literally EVERYONE, hell, some people see any structure at all as anti-sandbox. I don't understand what people expect..some of the descriptions I've seen or gripes about EQN would make UO or SWG seem like they werent sandbox games.


People are very paranoid about Landmark :


We all cry for a sandbox. We're literally given one to play in and the cries turn to "They're outsourcing development and making us do it!" or "It's too much like minecraft"


This should be a crafter's wetdream..but I suppose everyone is too focused on any idea of intellectual property (which considering you're using all of their tools and resources..would be very hard to argue, even down to textures)


The cartoony art-style :


Yes...I freaking hate it, I don't feel like it fits with the serious nature of EQ and it makes the game seem like a joke. That said, its still early and I can hope they alter things a little, its too late to change the style, but it can be toned down (The human female wasn't awful, most of the outrage is over Mufasa)


Also, bare in mind EQ2's art-style initially was very much the "clay-look" that we saw for EQN, so there is at least precedent in eq games for that.



Endless Speculation : 

The reveal was kinda crap, we learned very little about the game. This has led people to run around screaming doom and gloom. It's frustrating from both sides, but hopefully that will change as more information is released.

Absolutely would make no damn sense.


Not to mention it's too damn "WoW" for me..WoW played fast and loose with the idea of high fantasy just to appeal to broader audience. 

Originally posted by pvpirl

the reveal killed the very modest expectations I had for EQN.

Heres a gaming using middleware as the groundbreaking features, that placed so much emphasis on nonfactor gimmick features like SOEmote that the graphic style was specifically crafted to accommodate it much to the determent of the fanbases' reaction.

Voxel-based destructibility is a novelty and for a game that centered its' off-putting class system on AI, which wasn't demonstrable at the reveal, coupled with a combat-style from a game which did poorly as a result. Sandbox means freedom, not literally being able to dig up sand.

So, after outsourcing the content to the playerbase, and utilizing middleware for the meat of the game, all they had left was the Everquest IP, world, and lore, which they summarily eviscerated for the sake of simplification of content and market-research i.e. 1 starting zone, 1 elf race, smart ogres.

I love that you have so much more knowledge about a game not even in Alpha than everyone else +1 for creativity :) 

Originally posted by Krimzin
I noticed that there isn't the same gap between FFXIV and EQN now, that there was a couple weeks ago. FFXIV is going up and EQN is going down. I for one changed my hype from 10 to 4 after seeing the reveal.

Or it could be that EQN's reveal is done, and its clear its no where near even Beta testing...


and FFXIV is coming out in what..two and a half weeks ?


Such a troll..


Not to mention the "hype" level for games is a bunch of crap anyway on this site, but that said..EQN still has sure what you're talking about. (not like it was ever at a 9 or anything )



Good one..GW2 clone..

Originally posted by zwei2
Originally posted by evilastro
You can say whatever you feel like mate.

Isn't that is what a forum about?

No, this forum is about bitching, paranoid delusions, and showing the world your grandiose delusion of your self and your own importance :) 

Originally posted by BatCakez

- A way to get the community to build the game for you.

- A way to have actual input on how the game looks in a small way, also a way to make some profit (40% if it sticks to current model) off dicking around

- Another sneaky means for designers to profit.

- A very open way for designers on both sides to profit from intellectual property that is created in concert (Tools supplied by SOE, ideas supplied by public)


Originally posted by BearKnight

Think about it...what has the industry needed for the past 10years? Large companies to stop copying each other, and finally take a real risk to bring the industry back in-line.


So what did SOE decide to do? They decided to mash all the absolute guaranteed concepts together into one giant product to assure them money. This isn't a risk whatsoever when you think about it.

-GW2 style combat, most notably the only selling point of GW2, other than their Art-Style (Which is superior to EQN's by far, imo)

-Cartoony low-poly character designs, aka: WoW 2013 ArtStyle, to capitolize on super casuals (mostly kids) who refuse to upgrade their aging 8year old PC's.

-Cherry picked sandbox world-based mechanics to draw upon the "Sandbox" crowd. Whether or not it is a gimmick has yet to be seen as we've only been shown tech-demos. We don't actually know how everything will fit together until Launch.

-Self-proclaimed SWG-Cloned crafting system. Just about the only redeeming quality just for the fact that the Dev's are actually trying their best to move away from (insert item, get item) of the current themepark system.

-Most likely a highly modular UI addon-based system similar to WoW/Rift/Aion.

-GW2's trinity-less system which is more of a newer hipster concept that has yet to be proven to actually be a good thing. I've seen entire guilds vanish into offline status because they just don't "Feel" like they're serving a purpose in their Guild or with their character. Ironically enough It was noticed that people started creating their own "Roles" in GW2 such as psuedo-tank/puller/healer etc to the limits that the game allowed. People like to have a role, it's natural given our RL standards of thought regarding purpose.



We'll just have to see how this one plays out. It's just frutrating that they've decided to feed on the term "Sandbox" when they're mucking it up with so much Themepark-based ideology. The fact that yet another company is trying to break an MMO onto the Console market may by a major decisive factor in whether or not it fails (personally I'm aiming towards them falling on their faces, and blaming the "Sandbox Model" on not being lucrative).



So no, to those of you whom only saw "Sandbox!" and thought SOE is taking a "Risk", they most certainly are NOT. Sandbox gameplay is simply a evolution of time and technology. We didn't have the tech 15years ago to simulate billions, with a B, of Voxels for destructable/interactable environments. We do now, so it is only natural to progress from static Themeparks -> Sandbox.


What TRULY would be a Risk would be if they had decided to take Everquest 1, made the world a Voxel based world, and had worked more on making the world a living thing with a non-cartoony Art-Style using DAOC's positional combat system for which we have YET to see a repeat of yet! There's a reason DAOC has a place in the hall of "Best MMOs of all Time" amazing combat system is one of those that made DAOC the best along side the RvR of course :P.


Does a "Risk" require open world PvP? Hell no, but it wouldn't hurt to have some diversity going on up in this potato!!


Huh..this just smacks of angsty anger. You realize SOE is the only company in the last five years or so to take a "Risk" as you say ? Heard of a game called Wizardry ? It bombed, because it was too big of a risk. They tested out perma-death basically.


They're also taking several risks by departing from core concepts that made EQ,EQ2 and WoW sucessfull. 


Don't get me wrong, I hate the art-style...but pretending that means they arent taking risks is stupid, and I think its ironic that in order for them to take these risks you want them to copy other games (just not the games they're currently copying) lol

Originally posted by NomadMorlock


Tank/Heal/DPS/Crowd Control

Tank/Heal/DPS/Crowd Control/Alternate Support Type, etc


It's the need for players with abilities very different from each other that make group play exciting and strategic.  Walking away from roles is moving in the wrong direction.  It results in everyone being the same and is detrimental to community and strategic game play.


This may not be the only way to make an MMO in which interdependency is important, but its the only proven way!  There are many examples of games which have walked away from this which have failed. 


Jeff Butler stated that developers created this problem year ago and they were not going to live with it any longer.  I have to disagree with him here.  This is not a problem.  It's the beginning of an unfinished system.  Finish it..flesh it out even more.


Abandoning it ruins diversity of game play.

This was something eq1 excelled at for a long time that slowly went away. For a long time you had to have a Tank, a Healer, A CC, and a Slow/Debuffer, this was especially so on raids.


I understand the idea of not wanting people to be forced to play what they dont want to etc, but I always felt a lot of that problem came from people being unable to solo a "X" class. There were always more Sks then Warriors for example, more Shamans/druids than clerics.


The multi-classing system seems to fix that a little bit, but what worries me is that when at the class panel they were asked about support classes, support seems like a very secondary idea.

Originally posted by ropenice
Originally posted by Victor_Krugermy character over time and make them stronger.



  Guildwars 2 is a themepark game , Sandbox games are different and are not for everyone. There is progression in EQ Next with different level of Tiers that progress your character. I think it comes done too what role-playing games(including pen and paper) are too you, some like to power level and care more about stats, others care more about story and role-playing. Sandbox games are more about story and living in the world interacting with other players and creating your own stories by doing what you want to instead being told where to go with restrictions.


As a DnD alum, I do like the idea of bringing a pnp rpg system to the world and never really liked the min/max approach. The thing will be how well they implement it. I want to group up to explore/fight and not zerg. Other games with the DE/public quests, it seems like no one wanted or needed to group to win through the encounters. I know some people don't like forced grouping, but it might be the only way to get people to group. If a high % of players don't choose to group, it will be much harder for others to get a group. And if the combat is action and without dependency on other classes (trinity), many won't group, leaving it hard to find group. But I am excited about the opportunity to be on the evil mobs side in a conflict.

Oh..there will be plenty of min/maxing. Go listen to the Class Panel. The min/maxing it seems will just come with the combination of classes and finding that perfect combo + items (they mentioned items will directly effect skills, like lowering costs, increasing damage of skills etc)


They threw around comparisons to League of Legends a lot and Magic the Gathering.

People seem to equate "Sandbox" with "no progression" and I dont know why lol.


It seems like those people never played UO or SWG (probably the two most succesful/ relatable sandbox games, along with EVE)


UO had a SKILL system that you *had* to progress in order to do things, ontop of that they had a gear treadmill that you *had* to do to see content.


Be a blacksmith : Skill progression/ no combat

Be a warrior : skill progression/gear progression

Mage : same..etc etc etc


The sandbox aspect came from the mix and match of different skills and such (this is what made UO and SWG so great)


So to sum it up, at least for me :

Crafting is viable as the main goal of a character

Mix and match "create-a-class" mechanics


Housing (free roam housing, not instanced shit that's not very customizable)

Multiple ways to enjoy the game, all of which are valid



To me that's a sandbox game, and a very good one. Lack of skill/level progression doesn't make a game a sandbox, its a strange concept and I'm very confused as to how they're going to make a No stat-gear, no-level game work. 

We'll see, but I'm assuming they'll cave just like GW2 did. 

I'm not really on board with this...if it was more like UO maybe. Requiring a set of gear to advance a "tier" ? That just sounds like a different type of time sink.


I'm trying to withhold my judgement until there is more info however. Progression is kind of a necessary part of an mmo if you want any kind of retention. And no that doesn't just mean getting "better" at your class and/or getting new armor.

Originally posted by DavidinWA
Well it appears not to be a landslide victory for one way or the other. I imagined as such, and I wonder how this poll would do if put on the round table. 

I really think this would be an excellent use of the round-table. But will they have the balls ?

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