This is just my opinion, and it might actually help you choose to try Tera since we seem to be of differing opinions about the "WoW-style" combat.

I was gravely dissapointed with Tera in my bets tests, just recently requested my refund. The game is beautiful, the combat isn't bad, though I've never personally thought spam-clicking a mouse was better then spam-clicking a keyboard. 

These are the things I didn't like.

-Lack of factions makes pvp seem random

-Chat, Vendors, Quests, Maps, ehancement systems all scream F2P. Perhaps its just the nature of it being an Asian game, but if the graphics weren't as good as they were I'd swear I wandered onto a game like Aika.

-Not a fan of the combat, reminds me of SWG post-NGE

-Customization is poor. SWTOR had bad customization options..but atleast you could change the body-shape. This may be due to the game still being in beta..but the uniform size for everyone is frustrating (Every one of the stone guys is fat, every one of the dragon/wolf dudes are bulky...etc)

-The enhancements and all that make me believe that this game will be a lot like WoW with min-maxing. Some people like that, I personally don't.

Hope this helps, head over to curse, they're giving away Beta keys for next test (on the 9th I think) that way you don't have to pre-order.

What your missing is the url of this site. A better place for overwhelming negativity I have yet to find. Trust me, a month after GW2 comes out it'll be getting flamed too. 

People on these boards seems to come here just to criticize.

I personally like SWTOR, it may not the "wow-killer" I had hoped it'd be, and there's a lot I'd change, but it's a fun game. (And as we all know, WoW has already been killing itself for the last 2 years and its finally starting to show.)

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Content Warning: The opinions expressed below are in the context of an MMO veteran whom dislikes Linear-MMOs to the extreme. Please understand & be respectful, Thank you :)!

-------------------------

I asked this to myself after reading an Article posted on the 24th from the "Founders" of Bioware talking to Penny Arcade about their company, SWTOR's launch, and Mass Effect.

 

The following quotes struck me completely offguard with the sense of "D...Did they REALLY just say that?".

 

Quote #1: “We’re the fastest-growing MMO in history, and it’s really a credit to our fans,” Muzyka said. “The launch was fantastic.”

 

Quote #2: "The final beta test was actually larger than the launch itself, and Zeshuk remembered watching the number of players logging into the game, while other MMO veterans remarked that the numbers had surpassed the launch of other titles they had worked on. “You just passed our launch,” someone would say. The numbers would continue to climb. “You just passed our launch,” another developer would point out. The numbers continued to climb. "

 

Quote #3: “Now that we’ve learned MMOs are really easy to make, and simple to run after the fact, we’re on it!” Dr. Zeschuk said, laughing. “The interesting thing, the implication of a Mass Effect MMO has so many expectations. We already bit off a big thing to chew with a Star Wars MMO, and that’s not so small,” he said. "

 

Quote #4: "The possibility space, that’s a term that I heard Will Wright say about ten years ago, and it really struck me,” Muzyka continued, pointing out that most Bioware properties could work as MMOs. “When you deliver a game, and you deliver it for a player, you have to capture what they think is the possibility space. You need to let them do everything they think they should do, and you can’t block them from doing anything they think they should be able to do. You have to nail all the features and content that should be in that possibility space.“ He paused for a moment.

“Mass Effect is a big possibility space.”

 

 

Now, I'm not going to take the massive amount of time & typing to comment on each one of these quotes as I highlighted in blue the areas I really wanted to focus on. As a whole, I don't believe Bioware really GET what they're even doing with MMOs. It almost sounds like they're in denial land considering betas are ALWAYS larger than any game's launch. Even RIFT had a multi-million user login beta. Not to mention Age of Conan that had so many unique logins during beta & open beta that the servers they had kept crashing (albeit their setup was horrid, but that's besides the point).

As a conversation went on my clan's teamspeak. I REALLY hope Bioware decides to stop working in the MMO market. In my opinion, they'll only start butchering their own IPs into nothingless. Bioware should concentrate all of their time on single-player games, as that's what they're good at!

 

What's your thoughts on the matter :)?

 

Article Link

 

 

You lost me when you failed to realize the tongue-in-cheek sarcasm in Quote #3...

I really don't understand the point of your post,

Quote 1 - SWTOR did have a fantastic launch, anyone who says differently has a very very jaded point of view. Compared to every other MMO launch I've been apart of, it was nearly flawless. (When referring to a launch, you're generally talking about server stabillity, general game access and playability. )

Just try and reflect back to the massive bugs, downtime, exploits and all that from the most popular MMOs (EQ, UO, WOW, DDO...etc etc) Hell WoW was barely playable the first few weeks. The only game that I think had a better launch was Rift.

Quote 2 - Apart from the quote itself being a little convoluted and poorly worded..what's your beef ?

Quote 3 - See above.

Quote 4 - Again I don't understand why this upsets you ? That he thinks an IP should be allowed to flourish in whatever form the customer wants ? That's..bad ? 

turning off peer to peer changed my estimate from 4 days to 3 hours..and it's gone up 4% in the last 10-15 minutes compared to 1% every 3 hours or so before.

Is anyone else having problems with incredibly long patch times ? I've had the patch up for about 38 hours now, and it's only at 32% completed. Obviously this means I will miss the Beta weekend.

First thing that came to my mind was

Battlegrounds.

Second thing was

The Public Quest system WAR introduced (now used in Eq2, and forms the base of Rift)

Originally posted by CalmOceans

The slow paced combat you mention is I believe one of the reasons why EQ had such a good community, setting up a camp and having a puller made it possible for everyone to chat, mobs took a long time to kill.

WoW is really not an EQ clone, you can say they took hints from EQ, but the games themselves play very differently a clone would imply that there is a big likeness between the two, that's just not the case, EQ is very different.

"Hints" as in..the entire class/race/aa systems ? The primary game before EQ was UO, and that was limited to humans, and didn't have classes (per se..it had unofficial classes) Oh, and quests, which weren't present in UO but were in EQ.

I'm not sure why there was the seismic shift between eq1 and the eq2/wow generation, but it was an common industry idea, it wasn't just WoW's success that dictated the new formula, it was in production by several companies at the time when WoW blew up..remember WoW wasn't an overnight success.

This question is flawed from the beginning. Because there is no such thing as a "WoW clone".

There is no game that is exactly the same. (No this isn't just semantics, even games considered "clones" have hundreds of small differences, what people call a "WoW" clone is the skeleton of whatever game.)

Each new game that has come out has always brought something different to the table. Some of it sticks, some of it gets dropped shortly after release.

WoW was essentially a carbon copy of EQ2 which came out 1 month before it, the major differences were marketing and accessibillity. 

If a WoW clone = Quest based, easy, small raids, linear progression...

Well then WoW was the first WoW clone, because EQ2 was exactly that and was released slightly before.

(The whole point of this post is to point out how incredibly arbitrary it all is, every new incarnation of an MMO has copied it's predecessor in some major way, dating all the way back to MUDs)

Originally posted by ajax7

So far the changes they have been made are good. My only bitch is are those that exploited the pvp system and became ultra-powerful to soon.

 

have you played a match against a team of these pvp exploiters you know when they farm you for kills with the score is 5-0 in hut ball. It is really something  not to be able to damage them at all.

 

That is my only gripe.

I've always wondered why anyone would bother to farm kills in TOR pvp after 25..since..it's not like WoW where you get rewarded for being a dick.

You don't get extra medals, or extra valor/commendations for facerolling people for 5 minutes. 

I think this is just the mentality from wow still there, hopefully eventually the lack of reward for being an ass like that will stop it. It was one thing I really liked about TOR pvp, that you got rewarded based on playing the warzone, not farming kills (Though the medal system is still fairly broken, and needs to be fixed, especially with cap/defense points)

Originally posted by Zekiah

I'm curious, are there any other industries that consumers tolerate half a** products based on future promises?

Cars? No.

Doctors? No.

Food? No.

Games? Sure! Why not?! Just gimme half a game, I trust ya!

Lol. It's just so ridiculous. 

Cars ? Yes..think of all the recalls, the inabillity to buy the majority of parts independantly, built in failure parts like tired and batteries that force you to replace them in a year or two.

Doctors ? Yes, without proper insurance your care will be limited. There are several hospitals that family,friends, and myself have been in that we've recieved incredibly poor post-surgery care.

Food ? Really ? The Food industry gets away with whatever it wants.

Use some better examples..

Hell, you probably have an Iphone..a product that purposefully withholds features so in 6 months to a year they can release a new version that you cannot trade in for.

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by TheFirst109

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by Zuuz

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by atticusbc

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by Zuuz

Originally posted by inzane3

Homosexuality should just be kept out of the game. Why piss of a group of religious people and that includes: Christian, Jews and Muslims. It's only going to lead to loss of revenue...

 

You want to engage in gay acts go ahead, it's your private choice, but PLEASE keep it out of games!

Firstly, I don't think we should be too worried about those groups of religious people being pissed off, as there is very little substance to their thoughts. There are very few serious arguments against homosexuality and unless these groups come up with a good one I don't think the mere fact that they are 'pissed off' warrants any concern with their feelings.

Just thousands of years of human history and what "marriage" is defined as, and it is not a right.

dude, people have been having gay sex forever. so have other species as a matter of fact.

the way i see it is one group is going to get p.o.ed in this little drama: the religious types because it's in the game, or the gay rights types if it's not. simple. bioware has said they're going to put it in though so if you want wail and gnash your teeth, whatever. that's your right. just don't go thinking that it's something weird that humans came up with just now to piss you off. 'cause it's not.

gay sex = same sex marriage........................uh ok, you miss the point and the boat it seems.

Contrary to what you may think, marriage wasn't somehow 'invented' by christians. A marriage is a social or legal union in whatever shape, differing from culture to culture. It is therefore very directly linked with the beliefs of these cultures. To say that marriage is simply defined as being a union between man and woman is being blind to cultural history.

List 5 cultures that define marriage as NOT man + woman.

 

/waiting

I can double your request and name ten countries in the world where marriage is defined as a union between two consenting adults regardless of whether they be man + woman, man + man, or woman + woman:

 Argentina, Belgium, Canada, Iceland, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, South Africa, and Sweden

Please stop trying to make all of America look bad with your continued ignorance. Not everyone lives in a bubble like you seem to. This may come as a shock to you, but society progresses over time to better itself. It may seem slow in certain parts of the world, and different cultures will take time to catch up to others, but progress is happening. You cannot stop it, and it will not be stopped. Ancient Greece was far ahead of it's time in societal norms, and it has taken us a long time to recover from the setbacks of religion to get back to where we used to be. 

Progress is being made in all forms. Marriage used to be defined as to where a man of one race couldn't marry a woman of another race. Things change, we get better as a culture. The Catholic Church locked away our greatest scientists for discovering that the Earth does indeed revolve around the Sun, contrary to what their faith proclaimed at the time. Things change, we get better as a culture. Eventually the United States will nationally allow same sex marriage, even if there are people who would not see it so. A majority can't deny the rights of the minority forever.

So since 2001 10 countries in the entire recorded human history of thousands of years and hundreds of generations have same sex marriage.  Seems like that is very little "progress".

Also just stop the personal attacks, you may not agree with my (the majorities) point of view but that is not a reason for them.

Not such thing as "gay rights"

Um you're first sentence doesn't make sense ? "So since 2001....thousands of years and hundreds of generations" you contradict yourself.

And actually marriage is a fairly new social construct..please don't be so dumb as to believe the marriage we have now is the same as unions in the past. Christian marriage has not been around nearly as long as you may think, nor have the traditions. Hell even the white wedding dress is incredibly recent.

As far as the majority ? At least here in the states the majority supports gay marriage. There's plenty of polls to back that up. Public law does not always represent public opinion.

I don't understand how in reality people can be upset over homosexuality..something that has been part of human culture, and a very large part, since recorded history.

That goes doubly so for making it an option in a damn video game. It's not like Bioware forces you to have a homosexual relationship..or a hetero one for that matter..whats the big deal ?

Originally posted by winter

Originally posted by Bunks

Originally posted by elocke

STO servers are down this morning too...have been almost every day this week...how come you aren't griping about that?  

Well for one, the game is free and second, it's down for an hour at off times.

 

To be honest, the old saying, a fool and his money are soon parted, but when it comes to star wars fans, I consider it a thing of justice.

 So you spend time following a game you hate and don't play rather then play a game you do enjoy. Color me not surprised about the haters life.

Still playing SW:tor somewhat causually (no more then 40 hours a  week)  still having fun. The downtime from 1am to 5 am PST was pretty much at a off time for me. Pretty sure its not anywhere near prime. They patched and fixed some problems. beats other game companies like SOE EQ2 that still have some of the same bugs from years ago. 

it was primetime for a lot people actually..friday night, or saturday in other countries. Bioware has really dropped the ball on server downtime, especially for people in Europe (I'm in the US, so I can only imagine how much of a pain in the ass it is.)

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Yeah, it's down and that blows. That said, it's only 4 hours, not 6 or 8. Watch a movie or two , make yourself something to eat and before you know it the servers will be back up.

For the folks who only have this particular time frame to play due to your job, well, 1) I'd hate to have your job and 2) this is something you'd have to deal with with any new MMO that has launched in recent times.

It's all about prioritizing your time. I know the vast majority of people don't put gaming near the top of that list of their leisure activities. They tend to be the most upset when a MMO is getting maintenance and the 2-3 hour block that they have set aside out of a 168 hour week falls within that time frame.

Bioware is learning how to do this whole MMO thing. This is their first time at the dance. In their second month. If anyone in this genre (MMOs) deserves a break to get their feet under them for at least the first 6 months it's them.

That's not to say not to maintain expecting them to follow through and make things better. It is saying give them a chance to get some "live" experience withthe game and learn and fine tune their internal practices.

Oh, and if it honestly bothers/angers anyone that much, quit. Cause hollow meaningless threats on random forums (or even the BW) don't scare or mean anything to anyone other than the person who writes them. And with this title being this new, they are probably still getting an equal or slightly greater number of new subscriptions than thouse that are leaving.

Anyway, I'm gonna go make some food and watch some movies. Then I'll log back in in now, what, 3 hours and 17 minutes.*

 

*Provided they have the servers up

It's all well and good to give them time. Not like I'm even considering cancelling my sub because of a few missteps. It's the apparent smugness that comes with it by not addressing any problems. There's no "We're working on it, we messed up this or that." It's "This game is awesome and we're making it better."

I mean atleast its' not the "Our game is the best, and if you don't like it its your problem" verbage you get from Blizzard..but it still leaves a lot to be desired.

Just give me a real apology for the maitenance and I'd be cool not "sorry for the inconvienence" copy-and-paste crap.

I don't know if I should be angry at EA or Bioware...because as much as Bioware's name is all over the game, it was EA's pressure to get the game out that got us an incomplete game. 

Looking at the history of both companies..EA has more black marks, so I'll go with history and blame EA. Hopefully the game will recieve another content patch soon, an expac within a year of release and it'll get rolling. 

We need a non-fantasy MMO, and there are parts of this game that are excellent, and parts that aren't.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

it isn't like they're the first company to suspend forum useage during these types of maintenance and patches. Why bother keeping them open? The bulk of the posts will turn into a flame fest anyways like they always do if they don't.

Can't say I blame them. Annoying it is going done though but whatever.

Not being the first doesn't make it ok..

If you're going to over-moderate that badly, don't have forums. WAR didn't, and I actually thought that was a good idea, it puts the whole forum problem on other people's shoulders. 

Policing them like they are, and not owning up to their mistakes is frustrating. Bioware is feeling more like Blizzard and SOE everyday, shame Rift is such a crappy game, because Trion is doing well on the PR front.

I'm not sure what's worse..the ridiculous timing of their maitenance.. or that they disable the forums during maitenance..

I like Bioware, I enjoy their products..but they seriously need to learn very quickly how to run an MMO

Originally posted by sgel

Originally posted by evianwater

 

SWTOR was not made for YOU, it wasn't made for ME, it was made for a general population, and the general population is recieving it well. Did EA screw it up by forcing it out quicker then it should've been ? Yeah, but it's still far better then any MMO at launch I've ever seen (this includes EQ,Eq2, WOW, WAR, AOC, Lineage 2..etc..etc)

I see you didn't mention RIFT.. but that's ok... if would crumble your argument of a  "best evah MMO launch in the histories of all the planets"... so I understand.

I dislike both games... but at least RIFT brought more to the genre than SWTOR did.

 

 

Rift had a great launch..if you look at my post history you'll see I spouted off how well Trion did. Still a pretty boring game though and it didn't really bring anything new to the genre. Public events were done in WAR, trion just copied that. Rift is a great example of a complete lack of innovation, every single piece of the game is a copy, but it works.

"COPY" does not mean its bad, I think it should actually carry the opposite connotation seeing as generally a copy comes from something that was succesful.

SWTOR brought a different kind of crafting system, expanded ideas on the whole companion thing, as well as the voice-overs and cinematics. It also has the great addition of cinematic dungeons with group choices. Is the game something I'd consider innovative ? God no. But it does have more innovation then Rift.

I'm dissapointed with SWTOR, because I expected a lot more to be in the game at launch (Launching without the Legacy system,customizable uis,addons..and a myriad of other small but important features was very silly..and I point a finger at EA for that.) 

That said..pretending the game is just a horrendous abomination is the polar opposite of fanboyism, but suffers the same lack of firm grounding. There's no need to try and tear down the game, it just..doesn't serve any purpose.

Originally posted by Zetsuei

Originally posted by evianwater

Did you create an mmorpg.com account just to trash SWTOR ? Lol..get a life man. The game is good, I like it, many people agree.

 

Sorry but Secret World is going to be junk, just like anything Funcom has ever come out with. GW2 will die from over-hype.

In 10 years maybe they'll just give up on MMOs because the consumer base is just too damn fickle and whiney..and they'll just streamline FPS games about shooting "terrorists" to further indoctrinate the populace, then we can all stop crying that a game doesn't fit your exact specifications.

 

SWTOR was not made for YOU, it wasn't made for ME, it was made for a general population, and the general population is recieving it well. Did EA screw it up by forcing it out quicker then it should've been ? Yeah, but it's still far better then any MMO at launch I've ever seen (this includes EQ,Eq2, WOW, WAR, AOC, Lineage 2..etc..etc)

So much anger in your post. Its okay, take a step back and take a deep breath. Its okay, really. Here is some news for you, ready? This is the internet, and everyone has a opinion on something. You disagree with his, thats fine, but going on the attack like that just shows your either: a fanboy or a fanatic.

As for the OP, I've seen this happen in so many games. I never tested SWTOR, but I have done other MMOs and seen this happen. I just dont get the devs mindset. I know time is always agaisnt them, but if your game is incomplete or buggy, why release it? It will only hurt the image of the game and the company. FFXIV is a great example of this.

Lol my post came off as angry ? Maybe you should re-read it. Yours however was dripping with out-of-place "I'm a dick" but pretend not to be sarcasm.

Did you create an mmorpg.com account just to trash SWTOR ? Lol..get a life man. The game is good, I like it, many people agree.

Sorry but Secret World is going to be junk, just like anything Funcom has ever come out with. GW2 will die from over-hype.

In 10 years maybe they'll just give up on MMOs because the consumer base is just too damn fickle and whiney..and they'll just streamline FPS games about shooting "terrorists" to further indoctrinate the populace, then we can all stop crying that a game doesn't fit your exact specifications.

SWTOR was not made for YOU, it wasn't made for ME, it was made for a general population, and the general population is recieving it well. Did EA screw it up by forcing it out quicker then it should've been ? Yeah, but it's still far better then any MMO at launch I've ever seen (this includes EQ,Eq2, WOW, WAR, AOC, Lineage 2..etc..etc)

Actually..you can choose not to take taxi's on the more open areas, its the cityscapes like Nar Shaadar and Coruscant that require taxis because its actually different sections of the map..but a planet like tatooine, or even the starter planets or Dromund Kaas, taxi's are just for conveinience.