He also says :

"I don't think subscriptions ever go away, but when you have an IP as broad as Star Wars, we're definitely going to look at opportunities to grow that business and look at different ways of bringing customers in and serving them," 

"I don't think subscriptions ever go away

This is just your typical "unique reader" grab story for a silly blog. Massively is as bad about misleading headlines as Yahoo! news

Originally posted by bossalinie

SWTOR caused our national debt to default.

EA could've ended world hunger, and bought everyone an island to re-create the story of Lost...

with how much they spent on SWTOR.

.....

Said an "analyst" from Marketwatch

Originally posted by Wicoa

That alone cost a small fortune.  You can go on about plucking numbers out of thin air or "haters" ganging up on poor old swtor, all I know is those people got paid good money and probably lots of it.

Yes 500 mill sounds about right factoring in the extra costs they added ontop of what is an expensive genre to make a game for.

I think you're greatly over-valuing the voice actors...

Voice acting isn't some cushy gig that nets you six figures (unless you're on the very very high end.)

The Bureau of Labor statistics puts Voice acting at about $22 an hour. (With a range from $7 an hour to $77 an hour)

So lets get crazy and throw out some silly numbers.

800 voice actors, each working for 1 hour, being paid the average = $17,600

Now I can't remember how many hours of voice acting I read were in SWTOR...for some reason the number 250,000 keeps popping in my head.

$22 x 250,000 hours = $ 5,500,000. 

That's a very very small portion of even 80 million, let alone 200-500 million.

(Of course these numbers are just averages, and they don't mean anything. This post is to give perspective.)

Edit : Let's get really crazy...

$22 x  1,000,000 hours = $22,000,000. 

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by evianwater

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by evianwater

Originally posted by Teala

 

Hey  wait, you said I made the number up and you had never heard of it.   I said I did hear of it.  You said prove it.  I did.  So there you go.  Right or wrong...you give me a number you can back up and I'll use that number.  Until then I am taking the largest number thrown out there because in my opinion, based on the everything we know about when went into the making of this game and I bet it is closer to 500 mil.   You can disagree all you want...that is fine...until you can give me a solid number I'm going with my opinion.

I'll make the two points I'm trying to make very simple :

 

1. There is not a number that is valid. 80m Isn't valid, neither is 500m. But I'd tend to lean closer to a number that has more then a *single* analyst saying it.

 

2. SWTOR is not nearly big enough to have a major affect on a company as big as EA. 

 

and since you like google so much : http://techie-buzz.com/gaming/cost-develop-video-game.html and wrap your noodle around how many games EA develops in a 5-10 year period (I can't remember how long Bioware was in development)

I'm just saying.   Is it a coincidence or isn't it?   Funny that EA's stocks nose dive at about the same rate they have lost players.   I just think that is really interesting.

It's not a coincidence because you're comparing a stock that has had a negative correlation for 4 years and saying a single event in the 4th year is the cause.

 

You're not taking *anything* else into account. All you're doing is trying to piss people off.

If you are getting pissed because I point out a funny coincidence...that is my fault?  I am trying to show that there is a coincidence her.  It is not made up.   EA's stocks climbed as the released of SWTOR grew near.  It peaked at the launch.  After the launch the stocks start going down.   It's as if the stock went down as more and more players left and it is still going down.   If you do not think there is something odd there and care to speculate as to why it would follow that weird pattern then don't.  If you are getting angry becuase I point that out.  ::shrugs:: Not my fault.

Again..you ignore half of what I say. Do you understand what a negative correlation is ?

It's what these analysts tend to use when predicting growth or decline. Including stocks. 

I don't have the free time or desire to do it, but I'd be willing to bet on the salary from the 500m genius from Market watch that if you took the average EA stock price from 2008 to 2012, December 2011-June 2012 would not be an outlier.

And just another note : Many of EA's premier titles are in a lull at this point. Madden, Fifa, NCAA, etc...etc...etc

You don't think that could be linked to a drop in stock prices ? Or that it was recently labeled the *worst* company in the world ?

Edit : Take Madden as an example, a premier title for EA, that has been selling very poorly since 2007. 

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by evianwater

Originally posted by Teala

 

Hey  wait, you said I made the number up and you had never heard of it.   I said I did hear of it.  You said prove it.  I did.  So there you go.  Right or wrong...you give me a number you can back up and I'll use that number.  Until then I am taking the largest number thrown out there because in my opinion, based on the everything we know about when went into the making of this game and I bet it is closer to 500 mil.   You can disagree all you want...that is fine...until you can give me a solid number I'm going with my opinion.

I'll make the two points I'm trying to make very simple :

 

1. There is not a number that is valid. 80m Isn't valid, neither is 500m. But I'd tend to lean closer to a number that has more then a *single* analyst saying it.

 

2. SWTOR is not nearly big enough to have a major affect on a company as big as EA. 

 

and since you like google so much : http://techie-buzz.com/gaming/cost-develop-video-game.html and wrap your noodle around how many games EA develops in a 5-10 year period (I can't remember how long Bioware was in development)

I'm just saying.   Is it a coincidence or isn't it?   Funny that EA's stocks nose dive at about the same rate they have lost players.   I just think that is really interesting.

It's not a coincidence because you're comparing a stock that has had a negative correlation for 4 years and saying a single event in the 4th year is the cause.

You're not taking *anything* else into account. All you're doing is trying to piss people off.

Originally posted by Teala

 

Hey  wait, you said I made the number up and you had never heard of it.   I said I did hear of it.  You said prove it.  I did.  So there you go.  Right or wrong...you give me a number you can back up and I'll use that number.  Until then I am taking the largest number thrown out there because in my opinion, based on the everything we know about when went into the making of this game and I bet it is closer to 500 mil.   You can disagree all you want...that is fine...until you can give me a solid number I'm going with my opinion.

I'll make the two points I'm trying to make very simple :

1. There is not a number that is valid. 80m Isn't valid, neither is 500m. But I'd tend to lean closer to a number that has more then a *single* analyst saying it.

2. SWTOR is not nearly big enough to have a major affect on a company as big as EA. 

and since you like google so much : http://techie-buzz.com/gaming/cost-develop-video-game.html and wrap your noodle around how many games EA develops in a 5-10 year period (I can't remember how long Bioware was in development)

And just to clarify so it's not misunderstood that was the 4th source that was repeating the *same* analyst from Marketwatch : Doug Creutz

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by StoneRoses

Originally posted by udon

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by Teala

Ori

He can google all day, the only ones talking 500M was with the cost of BW added in.

 

Or folks wanting to make drama queen posts....but you know how that goes around here. I know you would never do something like that on purpose Taela.

I created a thread, I took a number that was in an article...there were lots of numbers tossed around about how much this game cost to make.  I think the 500 mill is closer than many people may believe, when you take into cosideration all that went into making this game...I do not believe this game cost less than 250 mil.   I think it cost somewhere between 300 and 500 mil.    That is my opinion.    I am speculating this because EA's stocks have literally tanked since the release of this game.   Even though EA has games like BF3, DA, and many others that are quite successful...their stocks are still tanking.   Only one thing can be the cause of that.  EA  gambled on SWOTR being a major success and it isn't paying off.   They are losing their shirts on it.   That is why their stocks are tanking.

 

I learned years ago not to own.video game company stock as more than a day trade. It will never make you money. Even activision stock lost most of its value after buying blizzard value a few weeks after the pop. As for the cost of TOR, it wasn't 500 million. It was north of 100 but way under 500.

This!

 

Something she will never understand unless she creats her own imaginary number, which she is clearly good at doing.

I didn't make the number up.  Just google it and you find this.  This was the first page from Google,

1. Analyst believes Star Wars: The Old Republic had a $500 million ...

   massively.joystiq.com/.../analyst-believes-star-wars-the-old-republic-...

   21 posts - 17 authors - Jan 17

   Is Star Wars: The Old Republic the next big thing in MMOs? ... analyst Michael Pachter, who targeted the price tag at roughly $80 million when all was said and done. ... It's obvious SWTOR cost more than 80millions to make.

2. STAR WARS: The Old Republic - Market Watch Claims SWTOR Cost EA ...

   www.swtor.com › ... › English › General Discussion

   Jan 19, 2012 – Market Watch Claims SWTOR Cost EA 500 Million General Discussion. ... The Old Republic cost EA $500 million, MMO a “risky bet,” claims analyst ... risky bet,” says Creutz, suggesting that “the total all-in investment in Star Wars is ... to ever make it into the black (that's economy-talk for “stop losing money”).
   

   Lessons Learned‎ - 22 posts - May 27, 2012
   SWTOR rumored to be the most ...‎ - 10 posts - Jan 19, 2012
   [unOFFICIAL] SWTOR cost 500 million ...‎ - 10 posts - Jan 18, 2012
   500 million dollars - Page 5‎ - 10 posts - Jan 17, 2012
   

   More results from swtor.com »

3. The Old Republic cost EA $500 million, MMO a ... | GamesRadar

   www.gamesradar.com/analysts-eas-stake-old-republic-probably-appr...

   Jan 18, 2012 – Speaking to Market Watch, analyst Doug Creutz estimates that Electronic Arts likely invested around $500 million dollars on Star Wars: The Old Republic, ... says Creutz, suggesting that “the total all-in investment in Star Wars is probably approaching half a ... That, or it could be used to make 10 AAA games.

4. Star Wars: Old Republic cost EA $500M, says analyst - Star Wars ...

   www.videogamer.com/.../star_wars_the_old_republic/.../star_wars_ol...

   Jan 18, 2012 – Star Wars: Old Republic cost EA $500M, says analyst ... EA has invested $500 million in MMO Star Wars: The Old Republic, according to Doug ... Build an Old Republic PC for under £370 and win an HD7850, final part1 ...

5. If it is true that SWTOR cost near 500mil... - General Discussion ...

   www.mmorpg.com/.../If-it-is-true-that-SWTOR-cost-near-500mil.ht...

   20 minutes ago – Posted in the Star Wars: The Old Republic General Discussion forum at MMORPG.com. ... I'll say the game cost near 500 mil because that is what some others ... also mentions that another "analyst" suggested that it cost 80 million ... No MMO ever cost 500 Million Dollars to make , I think you have an extra 0 ...

6. Analyst Says EA Invested $500 Million into Star Wars: The Old ...

   www.gamefront.com/analyst-says-ea-invested-500-million-into-star-...

   Jan 17, 2012 – Read Analyst Says EA Invested $500 Million into Star Wars: The Old Republic and ... keep costs down and hedge their bets over Star Wars: The Old Republic's success, ... Quick, Get In As Much Torchlight 2 Beta As You Can!

7. Analyst: EA's Spent $500 Million On The Old Republic

   www.escapistmagazine.com › The Escapist Forums › The News Room

   90 posts - 29 authors - Jan 18

   "I think it's safe to say that the total all-in investment in 'Star Wars' is ... costs are included in that $500m estimate then they will make a profit.

8. Star Wars: The Old Republic cost $200 million to develop ...

   www.gamespot.com/.../star-wars-the-old-republic-cost-200-million-t...

   Jan 20, 2012 – Star Wars: The Old Republic cost $200 million to develop ... It's safe to say The Old Republic's budget was bigger than that of most games. ... the $80 million forecast by Wedbush analyst Michael Pachter last May. ... That's about as much as it cost Cameron to make Titanic ! .... I heard it was 500 million.

9. PC News: EA 'probably invested $500 million' in The Old Republic ...

   www.computerandvideogames.com/.../ea-probably-invested-500-mil...

   Jan 18, 2012 – Star Wars: The Old Republic: EA has. ... Get me my pre-order! mattdark Watch Dogs: Of course people are excited! ... Analyst says result of "risky bet" could come to define CEO John Riccitiello's tenure .... combat to Xbox 360 · First actual price for Wii U appears online for pre-order - and it's HOW MUCH?

10. Analyst: EA has invested close to $500 million in SWTOR | VG247

    www.vg247.com/.../analyst-ea-has-invested-close-to-500-million-in-s...

    Jan 17, 2012 – Tags: analyst, Doug Creutz, star wars, Star Wars The Old Republic, swtor, ... I am curious how analysts get these numbers besides the obvious out ... Avatar which is fully CGI using new 3D tech is said to cost 230-500 million.

Did you read these sources ? I stopped after the 4th source that was just a site repeating one analyst from Marketwatch. It's the same analyst over and over..and even in one of the sources it says the dude from Marketwatch threw out a 500 mil figure, then two sentences later mentions another analyst says 80 million.

This just shows.. no one effing knows!

Their stocks have been on a decline long before SWTOR! Since the end of 2008.

^ This!

2008, when luxuries became a risky investment. 

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by evianwater

EA's stocks are bad because the company is incredibly mismanaged. All they do is buy up small companies, force some new product out of those companies that fails, then dissolve the company...Oh..and remake shit like Madden over and over again benefiting from one of the biggest illegal monopolies no one seems to care about.

 

 

Where'd you even come up with the 500 mil figure though ? Never heard that..anywhere, or even anything remotely close to that. The highest I ever heard was 150 mil, with most people figuring the cost was around 50-100.

 

SWTOR has already made profit for EA just on box sales (if we assume figures are around 100 mil) anyway, let alone the recurring subs, the 3 month subs, and the 6 month subs people have paid for.

 

I remember hearing something like 1.3 million boxes were sold..lets just average it to 60 bucks a box (I say 60 bucks a box, ignoring CE because not all of that 60 bucks is profit.) Thats 78 mil right there, without a single sub. Assume 500,000 members pay *1 month* sub..thats another 7.5 mil. (Keep in mind, all of this is straight out of my ass, none of these numbers are "real" its to prove a point that the cost of the game could very easily have been covered even before release, or shortly there-after.)

Oh, just because you never heard of it...that means it was not speculated.   I have one word.  "Google".

He can google all day, the only ones talking 500M was with the cost of BW added in.

 

Or folks wanting to make drama queen posts....but you know how that goes around here. I know you would never do something like that on purpose Taela.

I created a thread, I took a number that was in an article...there were lots of numbers tossed around about how much this game cost to make.  I think the 500 mill is closer than many people may believe, when you take into cosideration all that went into making this game...I do not believe this game cost less than 250 mil.   I think it cost somewhere between 300 and 500 mil.    That is my opinion.    I am speculating this because EA's stocks have literally tanked since the release of this game.   Even though EA has games like BF3, DA, and many others that are quite successful...their stocks are still tanking.   Only one thing can be the cause of that.  EA  gambled on SWOTR being a major success and it isn't paying off.   They are losing their shirts on it.   That is why their stocks are tanking.

How do you even speculate that there's only "one reason" why EA's stocks would fall ?

There's so many damn variables..and EA is a *huge* company. Hell even their last Madden performed poorly, and their NBA games. 

It could also be related to a market that sees video games as a luxury, and under current economic pressure there's less spending on luxury items. Why would you invest in a company that sells luxury right now ?

It just sounds like you're trying to stir up trouble for the sake of it...

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by evianwater

EA's stocks are bad because the company is incredibly mismanaged. All they do is buy up small companies, force some new product out of those companies that fails, then dissolve the company...Oh..and remake shit like Madden over and over again benefiting from one of the biggest illegal monopolies no one seems to care about.

 

 

Where'd you even come up with the 500 mil figure though ? Never heard that..anywhere, or even anything remotely close to that. The highest I ever heard was 150 mil, with most people figuring the cost was around 50-100.

 

SWTOR has already made profit for EA just on box sales (if we assume figures are around 100 mil) anyway, let alone the recurring subs, the 3 month subs, and the 6 month subs people have paid for.

 

I remember hearing something like 1.3 million boxes were sold..lets just average it to 60 bucks a box (I say 60 bucks a box, ignoring CE because not all of that 60 bucks is profit.) Thats 78 mil right there, without a single sub. Assume 500,000 members pay *1 month* sub..thats another 7.5 mil. (Keep in mind, all of this is straight out of my ass, none of these numbers are "real" its to prove a point that the cost of the game could very easily have been covered even before release, or shortly there-after.)

Oh, just because you never heard of it...that means it was not speculated.   I have one word.  "Google".

Or..you could post your source when making a claim like that to start a post ? Burden of proof is on you, you made the claim.

Didn't we have a thread like this already ? 

Where you can't actually guess the numbers..because there are no numbers to extrapolate anything from ?

Besides the point though,

When did 300k become a failure ? At eq's peak, arguably the second-most succesful MMO in the brief history of the genre..it had 550k subs.

UO, the first major success, had less then 200k.

Would you call either of these failures ? (Or call them failures now ? hovering around 100-250k pop each, and still making money..)

If WoW hadn't cornered the Asian market, would 300k look that bad compared to 900k-1 mil ?

As long as WZ's pop, and people are around to talk to, quest with. SWTOR is fine with me, and with the server transfers, it's exactly that. 

EA's stocks are bad because the company is incredibly mismanaged. All they do is buy up small companies, force some new product out of those companies that fails, then dissolve the company...Oh..and remake shit like Madden over and over again benefiting from one of the biggest illegal monopolies no one seems to care about.

Where'd you even come up with the 500 mil figure though ? Never heard that..anywhere, or even anything remotely close to that. The highest I ever heard was 150 mil, with most people figuring the cost was around 50-100.

SWTOR has already made profit for EA just on box sales (if we assume figures are around 100 mil) anyway, let alone the recurring subs, the 3 month subs, and the 6 month subs people have paid for.

I remember hearing something like 1.3 million boxes were sold..lets just average it to 60 bucks a box (I say 60 bucks a box, ignoring CE because not all of that 60 bucks is profit.) Thats 78 mil right there, without a single sub. Assume 500,000 members pay *1 month* sub..thats another 7.5 mil. (Keep in mind, all of this is straight out of my ass, none of these numbers are "real" its to prove a point that the cost of the game could very easily have been covered even before release, or shortly there-after.)

Edit : Also..looking at the very low-end numbers that people are pulling out of their booty about SWTOR sub numbers (300k). 300k subs over 6 months = 27 mil. 

Just another random, unfounded figure to point out how pretending SWTOR was some major cataclysmic failure for EA is silly. Even if they at worst broke even, it wouldn't be putting a dent in any earnings report. 

What you could say, is that the market perceiving the game as a failure might have a negative affect on EA in the future. But that's not quantifiable.

Eh not sure how they've been messy..

Very very few problems with the actual transfers. They process very quickly. The transfers are pretty obvious. (West coast PvP servers -> to west coast pvp servers, RP-Pvp servers -> to rp-pvp servers...)

I think this is much better then what Rift did with the free transfers early on. All the other games I've played have always charged for server transfers or just merged servers completely.. So that's about the extent of my expirience.

SWTOR's story still shines as one of the best parts of mmoRPGS to date for me. While I didn't always like the stories (Consular for example felt dull.) some where great, if a bit rushed at times.

GW2 just doesn't have the same feel, perhaps it's not being able to make any choice for yourself. It's more like watching a movie then telling your own story. The characters also seem fairly forgettable, many are introduced quickly, then just fade away.

There's the little tag that says "work in progress" on all the cinematics, but I seriously doubt this late in development they'd make any changes that would make it nearly as encompassing as the SWTOR story.

The only brightside I can see is that with the story being more simplistic in GW2 (and the voice overs, since there's only one route to go, not several). We *should* get faster story content updates then SWTOR.

You can't call a came that made profit a flop. Just stating that real quick.

But to run with your premise, it's simple :

The Market  (That is..you..and me..and everyone else on this forum.)

We're faaar too picky, and expect way too much of *new* mmos. Until we get over that every game will "flop". Perhaps the lessons of Rift and SWTORwill lower expectations to a realistic level. If they haven't..GW2 will "flop" too, and TSW will..etc..etc

I've already recieved more out of my beta weekend for my pre-purchase then I recieved from the steaming pile of crap that is d3.

D3 was the most dissapointing game of this decade for me. Guild Wars 2 would be hard pressed to meet that distinction. Plus you have a company that is more customer friendly behind it. Blizzard is notorious for milking shipped content until the very last second, then releasing addons.

Here's hoping it's not an MMO..

And please get over SWG..the game had tons and tons of flaws. It was completely player driven, so when populations dwindled around 05, the game started to suck. 

Populations were fading because it had no content updates. Hell Both Rift and SWTOR have had more content updates in their first 6 months then SWG did in years.

NGE was seen as necessary for a reason..not just to fuck with people. The game was dying a slow painful death.

I'm confused to the point of the OP?

Your numbers dont actually have solid data behind it.. 

Servers that are claimed "dead" like Vrook Lamar..I play on and don't see the server as "dead" by any means..so..I don't get that. They remind me of low pop servers on most games today.  They stay "Light", "Standard" occasionally on weekends.

These next few months decide whether SWTOR will fail or succeed in the long run. The "mega server" rumours could be the best possible solution for a game that's been hit more by an unreasonable consumer base then actual flaws.

My only hope that comes out of all of this is that one of two things happens :

1. MMORPG players start to realize that a game in its first year will not have all the bells and whisltes of a game that has been in constant development for 5+ years.

2. Companies will build a game, ignore release dates and release it when it was finished. They will stop trying to capitalize on the disgruntled mmorpg players, and build a quality game that has longevity rather then a quick cash burst.

-- 

The MMO landscape changed in 2004-2006. But people and companies are assuming it stayed the same..it hasn't. The massive numbers of people leaving new games (Rift, SWTOR...soon to be added : GW2 and TERA) should be a wake up call. 

It's ironic that by "voting with your wallet" consumers are destroying the mmo industry. What's the point of investing in building a game that will be abandoned in 3 months because it doesn't have "X" ? It's like everyone expects a game to be perfect, and I think nostalgia has a big part in this. 

Every new game is held to a higher standard then the game before it. Hopefully the non-sub model of GW2 will give it some slack.

I always liked the idea of race mattering. Thought it was great in Shadowbane that larger races had more hp, same with Eq1..

But in the age of "fairness", why not just make the nameplate scale ? So for smaller races like the Asura, they have a larger nameplate to make up for a lack of physical size. And larger races have smalelr nameplates ?