Originally posted by Yalexy

First of all, WoW is not the only succesful MMO with a subscription... but that aside, WoW simply had not alot of competition back when it was released and it is actually rather well developed and has solid endgame-content.

The mass of MMOs these days are released unpolished and aren't polished enoughed. People play them for some 3 month and then move on as it got boring after the all the content was done.

Look at SWTOR... I maxed three characters and managed to equip all of them with the best gear, which was T2 back then... all within the first three month after release.
Same goes for TSW, allthough I only made one char, as you could allready do everything with a single one. After I had aquired everything 10.4/10.4 there was nothing to do anymore but to wait for the next content-patch or 10.5, etc...

WoW has been around for so long, that there's tons of content, and people who are not hardcore-raiders do actually enjoy the older content, so the game can keep alot of casual players attached.

Other MMOs could've been succesful, but they were rather unfinished and buggy in the beginning, like AoC for example, which had actually very good raiding-content for endgame T1-T3. The hardmodes in RotG were challenging and fun aswell.
Anyways, the game never got off due to the many bugs and the very high hardware-requirements.

Developers need to take their time, and not rush the release because they're pressured by a publisher or their shareholders. This is the only way to polish the game enough and to have all hands free for content after release. Good and fun content is the most cruicial part really, as people get bored pretty fast.

Its interesting you mention Polish, endgame, and to a lesser degree difficulty...as bonuses for WoW.

When WoW released, the difficulty was childish compared to other MMOs at the time, the endgame was nonexistant, and it was one of the worst launches as far as stability in history. It has had horrendous problems with hacking and account security.

The very things that made WoW succesfull (like the easy difficulty) are what MMOs are still trying right now, the problem is WoW capitalized first, built up the stable of content, and has coasted ever since. Other games with comparable content : Eq, Eq2, UO...are either out-dated, or lacking in one aspect. Eq2 for example is basically the same game as WoW, it released a month before WoW and had the first large-scale voice-overs. It however never had solid pvp.

Originally posted by Jemcrystal
WoW lets people mess with the UI and make game mods.  No other mmo will do that.

You don't know much about other games if you believe that...

Simple ;

Timing. 

WoW was the first mega-hit (previous highs were always sub million in NA, WoW maxed at I think 3 or 4 mil in NA). When it was in its prime, F2P was considered an afterthought, it's only in the last 2 years or so that f2p has become such a prime model. Or I should say the hybrid model which works like extended trials.

Don't mistake games like SWTOR, Eq2, LoTR as f2p though. It's a misnomer, they are all sub games that have f2p parts to them.

Wow will eventually have to go F2p if they want to keep their numbers, they just had a larger pool of sub players that it didn't matter if they lost 4 million (which they have now) subscribers.

This post is hilarious. I don't know if it's the fact that it's someone so bent out of shape about what other people or doing...or the joke of a "poll" which is basically 3 ways to say yes, and a 4th to make you feel guilty for saying no.

It's like a Worth-The-Wait sex ed program lol

Total war sells a "add blood" package for 5 bucks..but you're concerned about skimpy outfits ? 

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by Isturi

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Isturi

Originally posted by fiontar

...?

The point of your OP was to slam anyone who doesn't thnk GW2 is a the greatest game ever by calling it too difficulut for them to play (no MMORPG is hard) attacking their skill in PVP or cognitive thinking abilities in terms of determining what they find fun. 

"After they get fed up with the difficult game play that enriches GW2 after they get tied of losing a lot or all the time in PVP after they realize that they cant comperhind the meaning of having fun in a very well devoloped game"

You hid that behind an insincere question asking when they would being voicing their displeasure by calling the title "dead".

Realize such claims are using hyperbole to make their point that players are leaving a title in droves (ie see TOR) and cancelling their subs.  Will be a hard thing to verify in GW2 since no one pays a sub fee, heck, GW1 was dead to me years ago but apparently people kept playing for some reason.

GW2 will not appeal to some segment of the market no matter how well made it is.  The developers made some design choices that will ensure that it will displease a fairly large core of the MMORPG marketplace over the long haul and they'll move on to other games once they become available.  Heck, don't be surprised when a lot of folks return to WOW in September because they actually enjoy it's design.

And no matter what people say, GW2 lacks a really key feature that most MMORPG's have and many people play them for, nearly endlless character progression in terms of power.  For some of us it isn't enough to just get another good looking piece of gear.  But that's OK, people will still make new games for us  too.

There, I guess I just started calling GW2 fail today, so you can start the clock.

 

 

Please do not ASSUME to know what I thought when I posted my OP you are further from the truth. That being I feel GW2 is one of the best MMO's that is comming out to date. Very simple point. Why do you and other nagitive people read in between the lines and phyco analize me? I am acualy surprised by your thoughts concedering I find most of your post very entertaining and thoughtful. I am dissapointed that you and others that share this thought pertend to know my reasons behind my OP. I bid you adue.

I agree that Fiontar is off in his assessment, because I was in the threads in the SWTOR forum that basically drove you to post this ;).  Now that said...let me get to the heart of the matter here.

I am one of those who actually is happy about the fact that TOR did not do well.  I know, you probably think I'm sick...but let me explain.

For years I have watched game after game come out that just tried to copy the WoW model, but then add a "gimmick" or two.  Rift added rifts and a different class system.  WAR's gimmick was RvR and a focus on PvP.  AoC's gimmick was action combat.  But outside of these gimmicks, these games were all very similar to WoW.

ALL of these games wound up flopping, and I made several posts about how this approach simply would not work because there is no way that these games can be a better WoW than WoW itself.  Then SWTOR comes around, and surprise surprise, its gimmick is story.  It is basically just a copy of WoW, but with a voice acted and animated story.

But this time it is a huge budget game made by a very reputable developer, AND it features one of the most beloved IPs ever.  So I really saw SWTOR as the ultimate test of my theory.  If any game could succeed with the "WoW model + gimmick" concept, it would be SWTOR....but SWTOR wound up not doing so well.

Basically, the whole thing made me feel vindicated in the statements I've been making for years that WoW model + gimmick just does not work.

GW2 on the other hand, differs from WoW in many fundamental ways...it does not use the WoW model + gimmick design.

GW2 Is still the same type of MMO as WoW..and let's be honest, EQ (which was the original that WoW copied.) It just has more gimmicks than most of the other copies that have come out. It's still very much in line with the linear progression model. 

You can talk all you want about WvWvW..but that's basically just a souped up version of WAR's (WAR had excellent RVR..the greatest tragedy was seeing that game fail soooo badly.) 

You can talk about the "lack of the trinity class system" but you still have a class system that locks you into whatever class you choose. (as opposed to a game like UO where you never picked a "class" you just got skills and could always pick a different skill)

GW2 is *not* some brand new innovative game..it's mind numbing when people pretend it is. I personally like the game, but that's because I loved games like EQ, EQ2, Wow..to some extent, SWTOR, WAR..etc

The only hope there is is that GW2 will learn from previous failures and realize the single biggest deathknell for a game is sluggish content. Not every game can be WoW and crap out an xpac ever 2 years and still keep the majority happy.

Originally posted by colddog04

I just did an event in the Ice Steppes and on the way there, maybe 10% of the time I heard music. It reminded me of Minecraft in that there is no music forever and then it plays a short piece. After the event was over, there was still no music at all for ~ 5 more minutes (when I gave up).

 

The ambient sounds are really well done when you start to pay attention to them, but I think they should have an option to loop music at the very least. Have you reported this complaint on the official boards?

I've just been putting it on the comments section of all the Beta pop-ups.

Originally posted by Semibrucelee

funny because I was wondering if they had a repeat music in the audio options since i like it so much

Never said I didn't like the music..just that I rarely hear it.

There's a tiny bit of music just now. But that kind just proves what I'm saying. I guess it's taboo to speak negatively about GW2..but *personally* I prefer music more often then once every 40 minutes. Reminds me of eq1..it had a good score..but was under utilized.

The Icesteppes in the Norn area. Zero music.

There's something wrong with my settings then..because I honestly can't remember hearing music. Plenty of FX, but no music. I double and tripple checked looking for some kind of "mute music" button or some such but never found one.

And as for all the responses I must be missing something..because I can't recall any moment in three beta tests where I was immersed by music. 

I used to think "combat music" was an annoying feature in video games until the lack of in in GW2.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by evianwater

It might be a good sign that this is one of my major complaints, but it is a complaint.

 

There seems to be a great lack of music in Guild Wars 2, whether you're just exploring or in the midst of furious combat, music *always* adds an important element to the expirience.

 

Music is key to setting the mood to a video game just like it is in any major movie, and the complete lack of it is...strange.

 

Can someone tell me if this was ever mentioned before ? That perhaps they just haven't added it for the betas ? Or did they really decide it wasn't worth their time ?

ugh.

You realize that music in movies isn't necessarily a good thing right? and that a movie can be over scored and that can pull away from the actual acting among other things? I recall "Great Expectations" and writhing in my seat because the music was not only ever present but it also insisted on forcing the viewer into a mindset as opposed to allowing the acting and the cinematogrpahy to create the mood.

There are great movies that have no music at all or minimal music. There are too many crappy movies that have music everywhere.

I think the music in GW2 is actually very good and doesnt' take away from the game at all. It's there but it's not in your face.

Well there's a difference between music being over-done..and music just not being there at all. There's a reason why there are composers that are so well known, adding music to a medium like a video game or a movie is an art in it of itself.

If it it is done well, it can change the entire feel of the movie/game and take it to a higher plataeu. If its' done poorly..well..it destroys the medium.

It might be a good sign that this is one of my major complaints, but it is a complaint.

There seems to be a great lack of music in Guild Wars 2, whether you're just exploring or in the midst of furious combat, music *always* adds an important element to the expirience.

Music is key to setting the mood to a video game just like it is in any major movie, and the complete lack of it is...strange.

Can someone tell me if this was ever mentioned before ? That perhaps they just haven't added it for the betas ? Or did they really decide it wasn't worth their time ?

Players do quit *in part* over nerfs. I mean I quit WoW partially due 5 straight patches that made my dk go from a dot-focused class to a spike damage class. It's not so much the nerfing of skills, its completely changing the playstyle of a class (Blood DK anyone ?)

The nerfs in 1.3 are far from dramatic..anyone pretending otherwise is just trying to whine for the sake of whining. Self-healing has always been a joke for shadows/assassins anyway. I mean you get a 2% heal for crits on dots..what good was that doing anyway ? 

That said..the class would be fine if the heals were completely removed. What I didn't understand was the armor nerf to the shadow/assassin tank buff..but, I seriously doubt it's nearly as big a deal as the OP mentioned.

Oh..and the OP probably doesn't play any class that was "nerfed" anyway.

Originally posted by Searias

Originally posted by evianwater

A hybrid model like EQ2 would be horrible. Putting restrictions and crap so it's impossible to play at max level without a paying sub.

 

I hope a company figures out a model that works better than any we have right now. I do always feel a little upset that I'm paying to sub to a game I already bought (I've felt that way since paying my first sub fee for 9 bucks to UO, and I remember being livid when EQ when up to 12 bucks a month..)

 

I like GW2's idea of buy to play..and then pay for xpacs. But their cash shop worries me.

Probably something close to Age of Conan's model. In the end their main goal would be to increase the number of subbed users, than having free to play users.

That was EQ2's goal as well. It's worked for them, and for EQ. I just think it's such a slap in the face to put gear restirctions, and then call it f2p. Basically it means "Extended trial, to almost max level" 

Especially in later stage games that have gear saturation, so the tiers don't mean nearly as much as they once did. 

Rebel, just let the thread die. She's just trying to keep it going. Logic prevailed to anyone who actually cared. She's been proven to be nothing more than a troll.

A hybrid model like EQ2 would be horrible. Putting restrictions and crap so it's impossible to play at max level without a paying sub.

I hope a company figures out a model that works better than any we have right now. I do always feel a little upset that I'm paying to sub to a game I already bought (I've felt that way since paying my first sub fee for 9 bucks to UO, and I remember being livid when EQ when up to 12 bucks a month..)

I like GW2's idea of buy to play..and then pay for xpacs. But their cash shop worries me.