Originally posted by Ozmodan

Nice try, but this game has no where near 800k subscriptions, they are lucky to have 100k.  This game is basically gambling on line.   If you are not a gambling addict, there are far better games to through you money away on.

800k is the number Mindark published some time ago, not saying it isn't marketing/exaggerated but since there is no other more reliable source to verify i don't know what you're basing your numbers on. As for gambling, i believe the swedish gambling inspection checked EU twice and did not consider it gambling. Which other RCE games are you referring to or do you mean regular p2p games?

Originally posted by Wizardry

Ya when i tried this game,i thought this was originally someones joke,they never intended it to be much of a game.It is ONLY the real money factor that allows the game to come close to surviving.To gather sweat is just maybe the most horrible idea any devloper could think of,it is like giving a game a real bad name,it gives the game a fail from the get go.

limitations on selecting your name is one aspect that shows just how cheap and ancient the engine is,this was for sure someones goofy project ,that just so happened to somehow survive as a game.

With an annual turnover of about 350 million US dollars ingame and supposedly 800k Subs i'd hardly call it "close to surviving" or  "someone's goofy project" Granted, sweating is not the most fun in game but it's just one part of it and one way to earn money to try out the other things if you don't want to spend your own money.

Updated with teasers from last week.

To show the upcoming Cryengine2 update FPC are putting up a series of short teasers. Raw unedited gameplay footage of roughly 10 seconds on how things will look. Here are the first few, they'll be released every day untill june 18th, i'll update the list as they come available.

1. Running colonist: www.youtube.com/watch (01/06/2009)
2. Big Teleporter: www.youtube.com/watch (02/06/2009)
3. Shooting colonist: www.youtube.com/watch (03/06/2009)
4. Corridor lightning: www.youtube.com/watch (04/06/2009)
5. Plasma rifle: www.youtube.com/watch (05/06/2009)
6. Vegetation Interaction: www.youtube.com/watch (08/06/2009)
7. Underwater: www.youtube.com/watch (09/06/2009)
8. Atmosphereic occurance: www.youtube.com/watch (10/06/2009)
9. Port Atlantis: www.youtube.com/watch (11/06/2009)
10. Sword fight: www.youtube.com/watch (12/06/2009)

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

 To answer your analogy, I may want to go ski somewhere there are no lifts. If there is a lift, I will take the lift. This woulds ruin the idea of going somewhere there is no lift. It's not about YOU being able to take the lift, it as about ME being able to take the lift. How can you design the mountain so only YOU can take the lift, but I cannot? It is not possible.

I have also made this point. Those that want P2P and hate RMT, like myself, and those that taht like RMT are after two different things.

I want to earn the sword. I want the only way for me ot earn the sword to be doing the content. If you let me buy the sword, it cheapens the experience for me. I have five bucks, I'm not going to gimp my self so I can save five bucks. I'll buy the sword if you let me, then promptly quit teh game, because buying it wasn't any fun. But I don't want the sword. I don't care about the sword. It is only a measure of what content I"ve done so far, and it may also open up new content to me.

So the journey of climbing the mountain is fun to me, the view from the top is only significant because it is a symbol of the journey I've taken.

Those that like RMT don't care about the journey. They want the sword. They don't want to do the content, only to have the item the content would have provided. They may, as you suggest, only want the view, and care nothing for the journey that would provide that view.

I don't want to stand at the top of the mountain with thsoe people that took the helicopter just for the view. I"d rather go to a mountain where the only way to the top is to climb, and the only people I see at the top are those that have shared the saem experience I have gone through.

Now, this does not mean that there should be no RMT games. Great, make RMT games by the millions for all the people that like to play them. Just don't expect me to play a game with RMT, and make games for me that have no RMT.

I see this issue just like making a good grouping game. If you allow people to solo, you allow ME to solo, and that ruins the game for me. You cannot say it doesn't affect my game play, because it does. If you allow people to buy items with RMT, you allow ME to buy items with RMT, and that ruins my game play. YOu cannot say it has no impact on me at all.

 

So, on one hand you value the content / journey above everything else, you want to earn it and you only value an item because it represents an experience. On the other hand you won't  "gimp yourself " and buy that same item when given the option even though you don't actually want the item. That does sound somewhat contradictory to me ;) If i understand correctly you don't want to be tempted to ruin your own gameplay, which is perfectly fine ofcourse as everyone is free to (and should) find a mountain/game of their liking. I simply wanted to point out that people who do use RMT might enjoy the journey / experience too but in a different way. I don't value the item/exp i bought as a symbol of the journey taken (there is none) but because it opens up new ways to enjoy other content of the game.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

I know analogies can be hard to follow or flawed, but try this one.

We are climbing a mountain.

We meet at the top of the mountain. There is no way in the Universe to get to the top, except to do it one step at a time, all the way up. Now, we look at each other, and we know we have both taken every step up the mountain. Do I care, or do you, if one of us got there quicker? Do I care if you got there in a week, and it took me 6 months? No. I know, that either way, you went through every encounter I did to get there regardless of the time taken (think of this as content).

So, in this case we don't measure by SPEED we measure by foot steps taken to reach the top. No matter how quickly I do it or how slowly you do it, or vice a versa, we know one thing, there's no way to avoid those footsteps, they have to be taken. This is want makes us equal, the amount of footsteps we have taken, NOT THE SPEED at which we take them.

Now, imagine there is a helicopter that can give you a lift up the side of the mountain if you feel like taking a break from climbing now and then.

We reach the top of the mountain. Did you take the same footsteps I did, or did you ride in the Helicopter? Did you ride part of the way, most of the way, only a little bit of the way? How can this be perceived as equal on any level?

RMT lets you skip content. P2P means you MUST do the content, no matter how fast or slow.

Thats' what we like about P2P instead of RMT, knowing everyone has to do the same content, no matter how fast or how slow.

Need to kill 1,000 mobs to get to level 5? There is no shortcut, you MUST kill 1,000 mobs. I don't care if you do it in one sitting of 8 hours, or 30 minutes a day, either way IT"S STILL 1,000 MOBS! 

With RMT, take an XP potion. Maybe you killed 900 Mobs, maybe 500, maybe only 100. Who knows?

I like your analogy, it does have charm to journey together and accomplish the same goals. However i think it also has some flaws. For starters there are more ways than one to climb a mountain, as a matter of fact part of the challenge can be to do it in a manner noone has ever done it before or take a different route. That's what might keep things interesting instead of following the exact footsteps of your predecessor. You also assume people climb that mountain for the climbing alone, while others might simply go there because of the view or to use it as a starting point for their sky-diving and consider the climbing neccesary evil. Lastly, even without RMT, unless you travelled together you never know how someone else got there, 900 steps maybe 500 or 100, skill X, exploit Y, but does that really matter? Assuming You enjoyed the way you got there.

I don't consider buying items/stuff gained through RMT a goal, they're the mountaintop in order to enjoy a view, they're that starting point to do other enjoyable things with or from. A crafter might buy his resources from a miner, through ingame auction or through RMT all of which might be ingame features. I don't think any less of him for not going out to gather them by himself.

If you'll alow me an analogy of my own: Both me and my father immensely enjoy wintersports, we used to go almost every year. Back in his days there were no ski-lifts so he had to walk up all the way, he sometimes still enjoys that part too but luckily for me i can pay for my ride back up and meet him there to go back down together. There's no cheating, he enjoys it, i enjoy it how much more equal do you want it to get?
 

I'm pretty curious what acceptable level of entertainment you got for $10/h :)  One of the challenges you can choose to pick up is doing things efficiently/economically, there's plenty of info and guides around to help with that and will make things alot cheaper than those 10$/h. On the other hand, like you said if someone does have the money to spend he can play around with the big guns he's not skilled enough for too. It's an open world that doesn't hold your hand, the choice is all yours ;)

My guess is still somewhere around august this year for VU10. I do like the fact they're giving out more info on the progress, i hope they keep it up and also continue with the micro/mini teasers: www.entropiagateway.com/2009/06/planet-calypso-miniteasers/

Originally posted by FastTx

Except you don't see the Marathon runner and the motorcyclyst competing in the same race. If they did, the motorcyclist would be frowned upon and laughed at for buying a motorcycle to win because he spent his time in the office earning money for the motorcycle rather than training for the big race.

Why do people who have jobs and families WANT to compete with people who have more time on their hands? Just play the game at your pace? I know many who do. RMT hurts games more than it helps, cripples economies, unbalances PvP and creates classes of living... those who pay and those who don't. In fact casual play or hardcore play is not even a real issue when it comes to RMT. There are MANY "hardcores" who have lots of money. So they play like they have no lives and pay for RMT to boot. Then there are MANY casuals who just take the game slow. You don't see them because you are looking towards the finish line.

The purpose of an MMORPG is every action you take affects others around you. Some people seem to think it doesn't that we shouldn't care. I played Lineage 2 for a long time and finally got fed up, I will not play a game controlled by Ebayers/Botters/RMTers ever again. I'll play a game controlled by whoever demonstrates the most teamwork, skill and organization.

Or the runner would be laughed at for trying to compete with a motor cycle ;) Seriously though, the point i'm apparently very bad at making is as long as they're following the rules people should have an option of how to enjoy their gaming experience. If implemented correctly i see RMT simply as a tool for players willing to spend money instead of time to gain the same results. Overall that might make mmo's more accessible to casual gamers like me, which is a good thing i think.

I don't know if they've been mentioned yet, but what about official expansion sets you can buy in the stores, aren't they a form of RMT too? You buy the option of raising your level cap, better equipment and/or exclusive access to quests and areas. Is that unfair cheating as well?

Originally posted by Brain-dead

I don't see the spoiled mindset you try to point out. He does says he's willing to pay for the bonus xp or extra weapons, simply to enjoy the game in more possible ways, how is that spoiled?

Because he wants to be able to pay to get a leg up on someone else. If I am playing in the same game world, I basically have to end up shelling out money to compete on a level playing field.

Not saying that there should be a law against RMT games. Just explaining why they are so unappealing to the vast majority of the MMO player base. The author is wrong; RMT  will never ever catch on as a standard for reasons I just described. Not in a million billion years.

Not the way i read it. He wants to enjoy the game in more ways than simply grinding for the next level/high-end equipment by paying in order to keep up with friends who do like that sort of thing, and why shouldn't he? To reverse your statement: If i'm playing in the same game world, I basically have to give up my job and social/family activities to compete on a level playing field with a student playing 8h/day  

Most ubers/hard-core players 'earned' their position by making long hours playing their game, the introduction of real money is seen as a threat to quickly lose that position to others who are willing to spend more money. Maybe that's why it seems unappealing to most. The way i see it running a marathon in 2 hours remains impressive even though someone willing to buy a motorcycle can do it in 10 minutes.

Originally posted by WSIMike

Hell, just seeing an "Item Mall" button on the interface throws me off. I can't stand it, personally. I'll dabble with the F2P MMOs, but I'll never spend money on them. Like you, I think it completely breaks immersion and undermines the point of playing in the first place for me.

On that note, I have an issue with what the author writes here:

"To use myself as an example, I tend to explore and try new things quite a bit rather than grinding for experience and/or farming items all the time. As a result, there are periods, sometimes lasting quite a while, when my advancement is slow. If I happen to decide I want to pick up the pace by buying a better weapon, some bonus XP potions or whatever, I really don't see that as constituting a problem for anyone else."

He seems to be of that spoiled "have my cake and eat it, too" mindset. He wants to spend all his time doing only what he wants to do, but still have access to the good stuff, when he wants it.

It's actually a perfect illustration of why I'm against it. Exploring is a lot of fun, I enjoy doing it as well... but I don't believe that because I didn't spend any/enough time trying to earn a good piece of armor, or a weapon, or xp, that I'm *entitled* to it. Hell no. If I want that good item, then I'm not going to spend that time exploring.. Instead I'm going to spend it working to acquire that weapon/armor/etc. It's something that improves my character... why shouldn't I have to earn it by defeating a tough mob, completing a difficult quest, etc? It's *part of playing the game*. Sorry, I've just never subscribed to that "silver platter" mentality.

MMOs trace back to table-top RPGs (been a couple steps in-between, of course). I don't ever remember someone handing the DM at a gaming session $5 so they can simply, "magically" acquire a better sword, or armor, or get faster xp. The point of it all was to *play*, to adventure and explore and have fun no matter what you were doing. It wasn't to "race to level cap as fast as possible so you could move on to the next game". It's so ridiculous to me to see people taking a genre that was founded around the idea of an on-going adventure that could be played for years without reaching "the end", and trying to reduce it to an ADD Paradise.

As for it not constituting a problem for anyone else... It very well can constitute a problem. Ever experienced elitism in a MMO? Elitism over gear, etc? I have, plenty. If there's a sword you can purchase, and it's deemed a "must-have" weapon, then there will be people who will shun you from parties for not having it. So now, if you want to be able to participate in parties, etc, you need to pull out the Visa and buy it. Expand that out to armor, or potions, etc. etc. That very well *can* be a problem, especially for people on a tight budget... which leads me to my next point.

And those who believe MMOs will keep it only to "fluff" items... Come on. Their goal is to make money. They're not going to base their entire business model on an Item Mall system that people never have to use. They'd go broke. They might introduce fluff items first, to warm people up to the idea. But over time, more and more necessary items will become available.

As has been said before, if an Item Mall is implemented for anything beyond mere fluff items and there's no equivalent to be earned via in-game means, then it can very well cause a wide gap. When Bob with the seemingly limitless credit line can simply whip out his Visa and buy whatever he wants and have an uber-equipped character... while the next guy can only afford, maybe, some health pots or something... Guess who's going to most likely win in a PvP fight? Bob... not necessarily because he's better... simply because he had more $$$ to gear himself up better.

It's lame.

Subscription based games provide a level playing field for all players. Everyone pays the same fee. Everyone has the same access to the same gear and items in-game. It's just a more fair way to go about it. 

I don't see the spoiled mindset you try to point out. He does says he's willing to pay for the bonus xp or extra weapons, simply to enjoy the game in more possible ways, how is that spoiled?

Subscription based games do not provide a level playing field. Like stated in the article it's a question of time v.s. money. Sub based games are biased towards players with enough time, RMT games are biased toward players with money, finding a balance/combination of both is the key here where through time you can reach the same goals as you can reach by paying extra or vice versa. While it's hard to describe "the point" of MMO's, i believe  "provide entertainment" comes pretty close and people are entertained in different ways. While you like to  "work " for your sword of almightyness, i like to do other stuff and then "pay" for mine, we both do what we enjoy and have the same result, where's the harm in that?

Originally posted by halldorr

I tried it and the controls at the start kind of set me off on the wrong foot - just didn't like the "feel" of it. Then the whole sweating animals thing was a snore so just went back to WoW.

Sweating getting boring i can understand, but the controls? Basically anything you can do ingame can be mapped to any key you like, it's fully customizable, the hotbars are too or can be hidden plus you can play 1st person view or 3rd person. what kind of feel were you looking for? :)

As for things being too costly, Marco mentioned it in the post he made about the reinvention of Calypso ( www.entropiagateway.com/2009/05/the-reinvention-of-planet-calypso/ ) One of the things they want to focus more on is making the game accessible to both players willing to invest money and others only time. So let's hope that's what we'll see more of in the future.

Originally posted by ilydamdris

I just downloaded and installed the game, so far it seems pretty massive. I'm digging the graphics and character creator. Is there a way to fight with just your fists since you don't start out with any money or a weapon? I really don't want to spend actual money on this game, at least not yet since I'm just trying it out, but if you have to spend rl money to get in game currency then I'd rather just keep looking. I want to start fighting things, but I don't know how combat works. Every time I go out find a monster and try it just doesn't seem to work. If anyone can tell me how combat works, or knows of a way I can get some money or weapon without spending real money I'd be grateful. If there's only one server, and anyone's playing, a hand me down pistol or knife would kick ass right about now lol. I can give my characters name if anyone can help a newb.

No, unfortunately you can't fight with your fists, only with melee/ranged weapons which do cost money. Without depositing you have a few options of acquiring PED's. The first is sweating mobs, sweat can be sold but it does take time to gather enough of it. Second is finding a mentor willing to give you a weapon to start out with. Getting a mentor is advisable even if they don't hand hand out free stuff, their knowledge help is often far more useful. Third is finding/joining a soc that might hand out equipment to trainee sections (i don't know if any out there still do). Last is participating in free events, check entropiaforum events section regularly and listen to Atlas haven radio, they hold many impromptu competitions. In the meantime get a good feel of EU, talk to people and if you do like it, the price of a regular game / subscription will get you a long way if you play it smart.

Originally posted by Ozmodan

The only reaon people play this game is an attempt to make money, of which about 90% of them don't.  So it soundly fits in the realm of a scam.  If you are too blind to see that by now, I feel sorry for you.

Do you speak for the whole community? There's plenty of reasons to play this game besides the money i think. The "Scam" argument gets thrown around alot by disgruntled (e)players/trolls but i've not seen any facts to support it . The claim that 90% of a RCE game population doesn't make money out of it does not make this a scam for obvious reasons. So, how is EU compaired to any other game/mmo a scam?

Originally posted by MarineBoy

One questions "pour le connaiseres": when they will really upgrade the game to the Cry2 engine? Initially they were talking about fall 2008 or so.

 I believe the ETA is somewhere this summer. Marco stated thtat the final test phase planned for late May was right on schedule so hopefully it'll come somewhere early july.

P.s. Just my luck, my first attempt at writing a guide here and days later they announce the whole continent gets a makeover . Here's what it might look like when CE2 arrives :
 

I think it's the lack of advertising/marketing the game. EU is not that well known and I've not seen banners or promotional stuff anywhere lately so i'm guessing most people have to find out about EU through friends/co-workers, old articles or simply stumble upon it on sites like these. How did you learn about EU?

There are several PvP zones/events as well as occasional land grab events (raids) but EU does require a different approach than the typical mmorpg, the RCE thingy requires more grinding if you want to start out without depositing which might turn people away. You can also lose money quickly if you're not careful and that requires a certain attitude.

Good luck starting out, be sure to gather as much info as possible on entropiaforum.com and entropedia.info. Joining a society or finding a mentor is highly recommended too.

Originally posted by teknician

Originally posted by Lydon

I used to play this back in 2005 when it was still called Project Entropia. I can remember running around grabbing teleports. The world felt pretty huge back then...ran for ages and ages!

 

Me too.  I still refer to it as Project Entropia.

Maybe it's time to try it out again ;). Much has changed since 2005 and things have improved a lot. The world is still huge but a little more crowded these days and like AG already mentioned there's more to do and more to see.

Hehe, my vid card couldn't handle the ingame Kostabi lecture before so i hadn't seen it yet, but Jamhot certainly gave it a nice spin :) I also liked the snake lady / burlesk paintings immediately to the right of the entrance as well as all the photographs. Like you said overall alot of wow's :)

Originally posted by Briansho

I agree. I think MindARk will continue to add and update mainly cosmetic stuff like new worlds and graphics while leaving the core functionality of the game untouched. I've noticed more and more people in the sweating areas so it seems people are becoming more patient, possibly from being "awakened" from making a few deposits and gained nothing much not even to buy ammo and repair. This "game" is definitely a mystery as in trying to figure out game mechanix and economics. From playing and observing over the past few years I've noticed the high rollers are either really really lucky or have some kind of inside knowledge as to how thing really work. I'll probably be labeled a conspiracy theorist but I think there is an extremely advanced underground network of information in the game and only a few who have showed their dedication through very tight social networking and extravagant deposits have been granted access to this information or they have made some kind of agreement with MindARk to help boast deposits and new account creations.

*Hands Briansho his tin foil conspiracy theory hat*  Seriously though, As far as i know Ma/FPC have ignored any and all questions regarding game mechanics from day 1, which is probably a good thing too with a RCE. Despite that if you look at entropedia today there's a world of information on which skills effect what, professions, items, skill bonuses, loot tables etc. There are 1001 loot/economy theories circling around, It wouldn't surprise me at all if there's is this tight social underground network that figured out what to do at the right time, and is that such a bad thing? It doesn't automatically imply they get their information from MA by depositing extravagantly or through some kind of agreement.

Originally posted by mrcalhou

 Unfourtantly it would seem if most people broke even, then there would be no money coming in. Personally, I would love to see more average loot and less Globals, HoF, ATH, whatever. With that being said, I never deposited in all the time I played, which must have been between 6months and a year back in late 2006-graphics update. A few months ago I logged in and gave all my stuff to a soc mate I was close too, which was about 300 peds worth. I enjoyed my time for a while but that update killed it for me in more than one way. I logged in earlier this morning and that same friend gave me some stuff to get back started and I probably will since I can't find an MMO to keep me interested and I can at least play this for free, which is more of a pride/sense of accomplishment issue then anything else.
 

Welcome back mrcalhou :) Maybe you could share some tips from your point of view on how you managed to be successful without depositing?