Originally posted by rounner

What if you accidently attack someone?

What if someone is griefing you (eg healing what you're fighting)?

What if you buff someone who is PKing but you didn't realise?

What if you defend someone being attacked and you end up being the one marked as a PKer because you are higher level?

Simple problems with easy solutions:

Q: What if you accidentally attack someone?

A: Have a grace period of about one minute. If in that minute you attack that person again, IE strike them, you get flagged attackable by everyone.

Q: What if someone is griefing you (eg healing what you're fighting)? 

A: If someone is healing what you are fighting, then they would be flagged attackable for healing what you are fighting, such as a monster or NPC.

Q:  What if you buff someone who is PKing but you didn't realise? 

A: Then youre an idiot for not paying attention and get what you deserve for your stupidity. Learn to pay attention and this wont happen, a-DUR.

Q: What if you defend someone being attacked and you end up being the one marked as a PKer because you are higher level? 

A: Level shouldnt matter. Alignment/Faction/Justice systems should prevent this. If the person doing the attacking of the victim is flagged as a "criminal/evil" then you wouldnt take a penalty for stopping them from killing an innocent.

See, simple solutions to simple problems. Why game developers cant think of these is... well... kinda dumb and disheartening for those of us who are dying to have an open PvP game.

Why did they have to make Trammel? Why? *hangs head in sadness*

See, everyone has to remember, the biggest selling point of this game was its title: "Star Wars". Thats the only reason this game broke 1 million subs. You had every fat, achne ridden Star Wars Jedi/Sith wannabe from here to timbucktu, dressed in their jedi robes, holding their light saber toys in one sweaty hand and their mouse in the other, chomping at the bit to get on and live their dream of being Luke Skywalker or Darth Vader or Darth Maul.

However, when they got on, all they got was WoW with lightsabers. Awesoooooom.... NOT! Its just the same stale, level/gear grind, endless questing monotony you get in every other WoW clone out there. thats why you see such a decline in active players. Cause once you get past the title of the game, the actual gameplay is nothing new. Bascially, youre just paying for a different name, not a different game. And when the dream is shattered, and reality sets back in, they realize they are just guys in robes in a basement staring at a screen, and the dream of nailing princess Leiah is long gone. So, instead of going through all of the crap of leveing up a new character, they shut down their account and reactivate their WoW accounts, slinking back to Azeroth with their tails between their legs.... because they play Worgens.... a shame they will never outlive.

Think about it: Why go play a game with identical mechanics and have to work up another character, when you can just stay on the other identical game where you are already established? Hence why TOR is suffering the same fate as every other WoW clone.

My prediction.... TOR free to play in one year. Shut down a year later.

Originally posted by SpottyGekko

Originally posted by SethDrone

Well that was short lived....Found out about the game and within a week they shut it down.  Any other indy sandbox games in the works?

They probably came to the conclusion that it wasn't actually worth the effort to continue...

 

WoW clones are all trying to steal slice of the ~10M players that like fantasy themeparks.

 

This game, as well as MO and DF, would have been trying to steal a slice of the 100K players that like FFA-PVP "sandboxes".

 

The FFA-PVP "sandbox" market is being oversupplied. It's a niche audience, and spreading the players across 4 or 5 games is just not going to work very well, I suspect.

The most likely reason this game was shut down, poor development team and lack of investor confidence.

There are more than 100k players out there who would enjoy a open PvP sandbox game. The problem is, trying to get their attention. Most of the FFA PvP games being made are developed by small, no name studios who have $100,000 budgets and a team consisting of 10 or less people. Even then, if these games do make it to production (Example: Darkfail and Mortal) they are released way too early and are half assedly put together, alpha quality at best. People log on and get to play for 5 minutes after waiting 3 hours in a que just to get onto a server that crashes constantly. And those 5 minutes are often laggy and bug ridden, plagued with glitches and defects that should have been dealt with in beta, but never were.

Then there is the problem of mainstream popularity. Thanks to EQ and its legion of clones, most notably WoW, people have forgotten about games like UO, SB, and the others who had the balls to go open PvP. More importantly, investors have never even heard of the old school games. Therefore, they dont know about the potential they could have in a more modern market.

Personally, I blame UO for this. If it handnt gone carebear with Trammel thanks to a certain someone losing control of the game *cough*garriottyoupussy*cough*, UO would have stayed PvP and would have shown the potential of open PvP games. Unfortunately, the gamers of 1997 were still stuck in the single player mind-set and couldnt handle the prospect of another player being able to kill them and loot them. Hence the whiners who flooded the GMs with their bitching and moaning when they lost that nifty hatchet of ruin........ Those of us who could handle it got one hell of a game to play.

But, the audience isnt a niche as everyone thinks. You just need something to actually catch, and hold, their interest that doesnt turn out to be a massive flop.

Originally posted by SpottyGekko

Originally posted by Cuathon

Originally posted by SpottyGekko

Originally posted by SethDrone

Well that was short lived....Found out about the game and within a week they shut it down.  Any other indy sandbox games in the works?

They probably came to the conclusion that it wasn't actually worth the effort to continue...

 

WoW clones are all trying to steal slice of the ~10M players that like fantasy themeparks.

 

This game, as well as MO and DF, would have been trying to steal a slice of the 100K players that like FFA-PVP "sandboxes".

 

The FFA-PVP "sandbox" market is being oversupplied. It's a niche audience, and spreading the players across 4 or 5 games is just not going to work very well, I suspect.

That isn't stopping The Repopulation.

No, it's not. Nor is stopping Dawntide. So many FFA-PVP games, all targeting the same niche...

 

Is it perhaps because FFA-PVP "sandbox" games are the easiest MMO's to make ? Essentially, all they seem to need is combat mechanics, weapon crafting and some kind of territory control system. 

FFA-PvP MMORPGs are not easy to make. You have to balance out the skills/classes, make the combat smooth and functional, make sure there is no way to gimp characters, make sure over PKing doesnt occur, and a whole host of other problems. If anything, an FFA-PvP game is harder to make than a WoW clone, because the FFA-PvP game requires two things which all developers today seem to lack: Creativity and Originality.

However, the problem there is, no one has been able to actually focus on these issues and properly address them. Every time these studios tackle an open PvP MMORPG, they screw up somehow. Mortal released a half produced piece of crap, and Darkfall went completely insane with the PvP, making it the ONLY way to play.

The trick to making a successful open PvP MMORPG is to make the game an open everything MMORPG. Find a way to mix PvP with PvE. Make PvE just as challenging (or reasonably close) to PvP and as rewarding. Make being a crafter just as rewarding as making a combatant character. Make it so that everything is rewarding, and nothing is a waste of time. A game whose every facet keeps players playing is a game that will succeed. PvP is all well and good, but if its the ONLY thing to do, then people are going to get bored. Stop focusing on one niche and try to expand out to as many player styles as possible without compromising the game's core concepts.

Its challenging, but it can be done. All it takes is the right development team with the right vision. Unfortunately, every new team coming out of college spent 1000+ hours on WoW or on FPS like MW3 to actually know what would make for a good MMORPG. They've all been tainted. Its sad none of them got the chance to play old T2A UO to have a good example of what to follow.

Originally posted by precious328

Their FAQ sounds too good to be true. And when that's the case, it usually is.

 

"Caelum is a world with almost no instancing.  There are no battlegrounds, warfronts, scenarios, or anything of the sort."

 

Either this game is the ultimate April fools joke or it's going to look like the predecessor to Pong. But hey! Here's hoping that it is indeed real! Cheers!

Uh oh, take a look at the crafting rules. Players dont craft, NPCs do. There are no crafting skills for players to pick up and players cannot craft their own gear.

From what I understand, you have to gather the materials for gear then take it to an NPC crafter and they will make you what you want out of the mats for a price. The best NPC crafters will be in player run cities and basic ones will be available in NPC cities.

This is a huge disappointment. I was hoping for a decent crafting system for players to enjoy... oh well.

Well, I'll admit, this game looks interesting. However, there is one glaring flaw that keeps me skeptical and I describe it in one word: Classes

Classes, in the past, spell trouble for anygame, especially one with such ambitions as Fallen Thrones. I dont care how many archtypes a class offers, a class is still a class, constricting, binding, unbalanced, and over done.

If these guys really took a look at UO, they would know that a free form skill system is best. Why? It allows for more variety and gives players more control over their character, customizing them to their tastes and unique play styles. Not to mention it keeps people on their toes in combat situations. Sure, that guy is weilding a 2 handed sword and wearing platemail, but what else can he do? Is he an accomplished caster too? Will that claymore strike be followed up by a fireball to my face? Or is he a theif too who will try to steal what he can from my pack while we are in close quarters? You just dont know and it makes players have to shift their combat strategy on the fly to compensate for the surprises their opponent throws at them.

But, with classes, you bascially know whats coming at you, and that gets old fast.

Then youve got the problem with levels. I dont like the idea of some arbitrary number guaranteeing another player will best me because Im level 40 and the other guy is level 50. In UO, a group of newbies could bring down a veteran character if they worked together. Skill determined the outcomes, not levels and stats.

Otherwise, with the sieges, full loot, open PvP, and meaningful game play, this game is definitely on the must watch list and will have my attention.

Originally posted by Kyleran
IThere's a fine line between simple player killing as part of the game, and griefing because you enjoy causing others pain. Obviously some folks don't realize it

And what people dont seem to realize is that there is no way to tell which is the other players motive for killing you. Everyone just assumes its because they are a griefer because they lack the maturity to handle a game with consequences such as being killed and looted.

Instead of being mature and seeing what being killed is, a minor set back, they automatically cry griefer. Bascially, there is no fine line, just people who cant take being one up'd by another player.

Originally posted by Corehaven

Id sneak up behind it, grab it, and stand it in the corner.  And stick a large piece of furniture behind it so it couldnt move.  And take a half hour potty break. 

 

Seriously....thats some creepy stuff right there.  I guess Garriot is having fun with that new settlement of his. 

 

Does this guy even make games anymore? 

Yeah, he makes games, lame social games for Iphones and Facebook. Honestly, none of his fans even respect him anymore. He hasnt impressed us in a long time, not since UO. Everything he has done after that has been a collosal failure. Thats what happens when you turn your back on what made you and what you were good at in exchange for chasing after the next big fad.

Bascially, Garriott WoWized himself....

Originally posted by Deleted User

Interesting subject.

However, UO is a terrible place to base an opinion off of.There is a reason that game changed and people make and play different games now.

And it is pretty SIMPLE.

 

UO was great, at first, then a few bastiges started playing like brigands and robbing and stealing and PVP was the way they lived,and it was fun. The problem was that there were only so many sheep to be sheared. In normal society actual criminals are a very small percentage, maybe 1-2 % of the population.That is mostly due to serious repercussions for breaking the law.

 

Lord British himself has stated they fully misunderstood and misguessed the amount of people who would prefere to remain law abiding citizens and how many would want to live as outlaws. By like a full 50%. With no real means of punishment, the lawless could basically do what they wanted. And they did, and did they ever.

 

This lawlessness, or "conflict" seems enthralling at the start but as UO and EVE found out its, just gang warfafre after the civil niceties are irrelevant.

 

Once the bad guy has less restrictions actually and is stronger than the good guy "secret" got out of the bag it was all over.

 

Money buys you out of bad behavior? Or theres not even the consequence of maybe losing anything?

Or

Be a goody two shoes that live by a misguided feeling that you are doing things "the right way"

 

(The real way it works is one of those players above is wearing a bell and covered in wool and is about to get sheared.

Odd how many times ive seen people say that more than 50% of UOs population were the "bastards". Now, when I played UO, back from 1997-1999, the open PvP years, I saw more blue players than reds. Actually, over the course of those three years, I was PK'd a grand total of about 15 times. 15 times over the course of 3 years. And when I say PK'd, I mean a red attacking me without provocation and just because they want to kill someone. My characters did die alot, but that was because they were mostly embroiled in guild wars as a mercenary. But in terms of being "murdered", only 15 deaths at the hands of PKs.

Now, I dont know what people were doing back then that got them demolished by PKs to the point where they whined to the devs that killed the game, but whatever happened to them was their own fault for being careless. Im guessing they were the show-off types who wanted to strut around in high end gear and rub it in everyone's face that they were better than them and got killed for their arrogance, and rightfully so IMO. But there were steps to take that would prevent PKs from being a problem at all. Its not the game's fault that these people did not learn how to play the game effectively.

The PKs were playing their role. Some did it as raging bastards, others as honorable theives, but anyway you cut it, they were an intricate part of the world, just as much as any crafter or fighter. They were, in fact, a driving force behind the economy and gameplay in general. Once they were removed from the equasion, things hit a massive lull. Gold farmers moved in and took advantage of the risk free PvE, flooding the market with too much gold. Items were no longer lost, meaning players had no reason to replace gear and thus had no use for crafters. Conflict was reduced to risk free guild wars where you couldnt even loot the corpses of your enemies anymore. Eventually, the game became so stagnant that people lost all interest.

This all brings us to UO today.... Its a joke, a bad joke. The perfect example of what happens when developers sell out and give up their vision and their souls all in the pursuit of being like EQ and trying to ride the coattails of the next fad.

It all boils down to the removal of free will, the eradication of the force which has driven the world and humanity since the dawn of recorded history, and that force is conflict. Good vs Evil, Survival against death, people uniting against a common threat. Take these elements from a world, and things become too complacent, too easy, too corruptable. Players get bored and then they start to quit.

Sure, other MMOs out there have PvP, but what is the point to it? To grind for points for gear? What is the unifying force? How many times in WoW have the horde raided Stormwind and killed the king because the players dont see a point to defending him? Or the Alliance raided Ogrimmar and killed Thrall and had no reaction from the Horde players? There is no point for them to act. No consequence.

They call them MMORPGs, but where is the RPG aspect? To RP, a player must have the power of choice, to do good, evil or nothing at all. Take that away, then the game is just that, a game.

Without choice and consequence, there is no world, just a game. At that point, its just a WoW clone.

I was perusing some articles regarding the status of MMOs today when I came across this little gem. All I can say is, truer words were never spoken.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MMOs Need More Bastards

Originally posted by Worstluck

Ok for you next vacation, would you like to be going to all-inclusive Island resort that has all the activites planned out for you, an itinerary laid out, and completely handled by a travel agent?  Or would you like to pack up some random stuff, take a flight to some random country and see what kind of adventures are to be had?

 

95% of people (totally made up like 99% of statistics) would choose the former option.  It's easier, you know you will have a certain level of fun (barring acts of God), and takes a lot less thought/planning on your part.  The latter option is riskier, takes some thought, and you are not guaranteed any fun.  This is just like "themepark" and sandbox games.  Most people will choose something that is easy or comfortable.

You also have to remember, thats real life. In real life, you cant go to a random country because, in the event you die, you kinda, ya know, STAY dead. lol

Choosing a themepark mmo or a sandbox mmo really isnt the same as go on a vacation you know you wont die on or going to some random country and pissing on a cops leg and getting shot in the face and dying.  

What you should be asking is which game would a player enjoy more? One where everything is handed to them easily and once they max out their character, thats it? Or, a game that challenges them to build themselves up, make a name for themselves and once they max out their character its only just the beginning of a whole new experience within the game?

Originally posted by czekoskwigel

Originally posted by vaultbrain

Originally posted by Warmaker

Originally posted by czekoskwigel

Originally posted by azmundai

 

---

Originally posted by milkpudding
It's simply harder to achieve the same level of gratification in sandbox compared to themepark. The sense of gratification keeps players going and not feeling 'bored'. 
 
The most common complaint that I've heard from friends playing sandbox games is "I'm bored coz there's nothing much going on"

---

 

Thats funny, that's pretty much why im not playing any themepark games.

So, you're not playing themepark games because there's stuff going on, and you would prefer a lack of content? 

What he's getting at is how Themeparks constantly nudge you along for the next thing:  The next point of "gratification" and someone telling you how awesome you are.  To the point of trying something different is a detriment to your character's progress.

Sandbox games have shown players going about the game world doing their business, whatever it may be.

Some people like to see, discover, and figure out things to do on their own.  Some people just like being led by the nose;  Gaming is very guided and specific.  Why do you think Themeparks are called just that?

.....because you get charged out the ass to ride the same thing over and over again until you puke?

yet people keep paying to go to themparks.  When was the last time you saw people lining up to pay money in order to play in a sandbox? :)

If the sandbox allowed them to create any sort of life they wanted in another world, they would give their left arms to go into it.

Originally posted by Warmaker

Originally posted by czekoskwigel

Originally posted by azmundai

 

---

Originally posted by milkpudding
It's simply harder to achieve the same level of gratification in sandbox compared to themepark. The sense of gratification keeps players going and not feeling 'bored'. 
 
The most common complaint that I've heard from friends playing sandbox games is "I'm bored coz there's nothing much going on"

---

 

Thats funny, that's pretty much why im not playing any themepark games.

So, you're not playing themepark games because there's stuff going on, and you would prefer a lack of content? 

What he's getting at is how Themeparks constantly nudge you along for the next thing:  The next point of "gratification" and someone telling you how awesome you are.  To the point of trying something different is a detriment to your character's progress.

Sandbox games have shown players going about the game world doing their business, whatever it may be.

Some people like to see, discover, and figure out things to do on their own.  Some people just like being led by the nose;  Gaming is very guided and specific.  Why do you think Themeparks are called just that?

.....because you get charged out the ass to ride the same thing over and over again until you puke?

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by Clywd

 

No, the reason is much simpler: there are no good sandbox games out there (maybe Eve). People prefer playing triple-A games with a focus on PVE in the long term. Most sandbox games that exist nowadays never left the beta status, and almost all are focusing on PVP.

So the "people" actually don't have a choice. From the games they know (and 99% of the people know not more then the top 5 games) they are all themepark games.

It has been clear for 6+ years that people prefer theme park games over sandbox ones.

I mean, Rift is an example of a polished, well-executed game that is successful.

What this thread is about is, why?

Why do people prefer themeparks?

Like the example I provided; is it because they know what they are getting? ie. less risk

Wait, whats that about Rift? Hehe, yeah, successful, thats why people are already calling for it to go F2P..... yeah, real successful.....

Originally posted by Vorthanion

There is no evidence yet to support the idea that a sandbox game could be a breakout success like WoW or even any of it's smaller competitors.  There is evidence that it could do well enough for a niche market as long as the developers are willing to settle for a moderate income for the game.  Lets face it, casual entertainment has a much larger and much broader audience and sandbox games just do no fall into that category.

More like its called, none of the studios that have made sandbox MMOs recently have done a good job.

Lets look at the recent sanbox MMOs release, shall we?

The first on the list of offenders: Darkfall (aka Darkfail) online.

Conceptually, Darkfall is a solid game. It offers an evolving world drivien by the actions of its players through. Crafing is lucrative and key to the success of any guild, city owning or not. Also, it offers player housing and player run cities. Open PvP guaranteed a healthy economy as there would always been a constant supply and demand as players equipment would either be destoryed over time from usage or looted in combat if they were killed. Dynamic monster spawns would keep PvE fresh as when players would kill off one group of mobs, they would move on and another would take their place in that specific area, with the exception of dungeons of course.  

In practice, however, Darkfall is a nightmare. Its riddled with bugs, glitches, crashes and a host of other problems that should have been fixed in Alpha and was still AT LEAST 3 years away from being complete. Aventurine released the game far too early and left them selves open for disappointment and failure. This was all in large part to the fact that aventurine was a small, indie company which lacked the resoures and talent to make a competant game, let alone a successful one.

And lets no forget the HORRENDEOUS mistake of making the game forced first person view mode. Given the fact that the developers of Darkfall were all hardcore shooter junkies, they went with the viewmode they were the most comfortable with, first person. Unfortunately, the majority of MMO players like third person, thus dooming their game further.

Second on the list of offenders: Mortal (aka Moron) Online. I call it Moron because you'd have to be one to even pre-order that mess.

Conceptually speaking, Mortal was a good idea. It offered the same things Darkfall promised, but also tied in systems to increase player accountability in PvP as well as controversial full frontal nudity for characters, something never seen before in MMORPGs.

In practice, however, they dropped the ball big time. Not only did they release the game HORRIBLY unfinished, they even admitted it to players and STILL got them to pre-order. What players got was one of the buggiest games ever released. You really couldnt even call it a game, more like polished code and nothing more. Mortal was an insult to gaming as a whole across all genres and its developers should have been tarred and feathered then ran out of town on a rail.

These games gave sandbox MMOs a bad name, despite the fact that they really couldnt even be called games due to the fact their makes released them so under developed, it shamed the entire gaming industry, not to mention set the potential for sandbox games back at least another 6-10 years. This is why there is no evidence, because there is nothing to compare it to, unless you are willing to look back at UO before its WoWization by EA. 

So, until someone has the balls and appropriate resources to actually take the chance and make a GOOD sandbox mmorpg, we will continue to see more and more companies plop out WoW clone after WoW clone until MMOs are just dropped entirely. Because companies just cant face facts, They will never be Blizzard and they will never be WoW. Clones cant beat the original so the best course of action is to try something new and move forward.  

Originally posted by Suraknar

In my opinion, if the game is Fun people will play it, and it will make money. Whether it is a Sanbox or a Themepark.

No one has made a Fun Sandbox in years.

Not since T2A UO.

Originally posted by milkpudding

It's simply harder to achieve the same level of gratification in sandbox compared to themepark. The sense of gratification keeps players going and not feeling 'bored'. 

 

The most common complaint that I've heard from friends playing sandbox games is "I'm bored coz there's nothing much going on"

Are you sure you dont have that backwards? Today, there are no sandbox games to play, none that are well put together anyway. Therefore, your statement is flawed. Please list these sandbox games your friends are playing so that we may try them out and see if there truly is nothing going on.

In truth, you do have it all backwards. Today, in pretty much EVERY themepark MMO, the general chats are inundated with people bitching and moaning there is nothing left to do and that they are bored out of their minds. Theyve done all the raids, all of the quests, have all the achievements and the best top teir gear. What left is there for them to do? Can they make up their own wars and go fight them? Can they get lost in the woods for hours just gathering lumber to make into boards to sell? Can they just pick a direction and go and not know what to expect? The answer to all of these is no, they cannot. Why? Because the themepark games have solid, unbreakable rulesets that govern the players experience and TELLS them what they are going to have to do, whether they like it or not.

The greatest success I can think of interms of a sandbox MMORPG that actually had RPing in it was UO, or Ultima Online for those of you who did not play it. In UO, players were free to do what they pleased when they pleased and however they pleased. Boredom was unheard of thanks to elements like open PVP and full player control over the evolution of ingame events. There was a solid community comprised of crafters, warriors, mages, heroes and villians, and they were all players. There was no need for scheduled events or quests. Players logged on and MADE a role for themselves, one that they were happy with and was of THEIR choosing. They didnt need to be handed some lame ass lines of crap from some quest giver NPC telling them where to go and what to do, players made up their own quests, decided their own destinies, from the gradios, to the mundane, it was all at their finger tips. Crafters meant something, because there was always a need for their goods. Conflict between guilds and players kept things fresh. The threat of PKers kept you on your toes. Theives put the arrogant in their place by stealing the items they felt made them so superior. Even fishing was interesting. Going on out on your boat, fishing up an SoS, fighting the monster that came up with it, getting the treasure from it, it made you feel like you achieved something. And if that wasnt your thing, you could spend hours upon hours in your house redecorating it to your liking. Bascially, in UO, there was NEVER a shortage of things to do.

Unfortunately, the players of 1997-2000 were not mentally evolved enough to hande the fact that UO was not merely some game, but a world, and could not cope with the implications of participating in such an advanced experience. They cried when they were PK'd, whined and bitched until the developers were left with no choice but to give them that which they complained for, a single player MMO named Trammel where they could be mouthy little assholes who could never be killed and could feel like gods. It was the glory days of single player RPGs again for them and they loved it.

Unfortunately, with the abolition of PvP in UO came the flood of botting gold farmers who quickly rolled in and began to ply their wicked trade, hording mountains of gold and selling it to players for $10 for 100k gold, generating more inflation than a balloon festival. Then EA took over complete and, wanting to ride the coat tails of the EQ craze, began to themeparkize what was once a land of seemingly endless possibilities, turning it into a neon artifact nightmare that drove more players away than all of the PKers combined ever could.

Now the market is completely inundated with more WoW clones than you can shake a stick at. From Rift, to LoTRO, to AoC, to whatever the hell else is being spewed forth from the anus that is the MMO industry, they are all WoW. Same interfaces, same concept, same set up, nothing changes. People log on, create a generic looking character, grind for gear and to level, reach the end game, then bitch there is nothing else to do. Thats what happens when you make a linear game, people reach the end and thats it. So, they roll another character, run the gauntlet again, rinse, repeat until the developers decide its time for another expansion. People get a few extra levels to grind up as well as some new gear to rat race for and when they get it, its back to complaining.

Lets just face it, the themepark game had its time, and that time is now drawing to a close. It was exciting at first, the concept of being a god amongst thousands and thousands of other gods, but lets face it, immortality is boring. Its time to step down to the mortal plane and step into worlds where we are nothing, unless we make ourselves something. Where the traveler we meet on the road has the chance to slit our throats just as much as bid us good day. Where the shiny new suit of armor you just got can be lost if you dont know how to defend yourself. Where the craftsman is worth twice their weight in gold for they are the ones who supply us with equipment we so sorely need. Where the dungeon is a test of ones skill, pitted against others for survival and the rights to strike the final blow against a fiersome creature. Where PVP and PVE exist simultaneously in the same world and both are a threat to the player character's life. Where it is the PLAYERS who shape the conflicts and controversies that dirve the ingame world forward and not some scripted event where it matters not if the players even give it a second thought let alone participate.

Bascially, its time to stop making games and time to start building worlds.

Originally posted by FinalEclipse

The good old Ultima Online days:

Player Housing - Check

Crafting that meant something - Check

Player Driven economy - Check

Flexible Skill Trees - Check

Open world PvP - Check

Open world dungeons - Check

Great community - Check

Not a gear grind - Check

Player Skill > Gear - Check

Good Lore - Check

Multi Faction Wars (Guild Wars That meant something) - Check

 

SERIOUSLY! It's got a following. There's no denying nostalgia will sell plenty of boxes.  EA now owns the name.... If anyone has the money to sink into a game it's them. DO IT!!! 

Please.... Update the graphics a bit... You don't even have to make it 3rd person. The overview type of game still works for people... Look at Diablo III! It will sell millions of copies. Easy.

Please for the love of anything holy. Do it. Stop digging up other ideas for games that COULD be a good MMO. Ultima Online WAS a good MMO. It's got the lore to build on top of. Like, what, 8 single player games before UO came out? That's up there with Final Fantasy...

What the hell is up with people... Notch (Minecraft) has made millions off a simple concept. Let people have the freedom to do what they want. Build things. Adventure. We don't need something stringing us along.  GIVE US SOMETHING. I have my wallet out right now waiting for the next game that can acheive this... 

Loot tables!??!?!?!! WTF are those? Your purple armor of Azeroth helped slay the Dragon of One Million Respawns? Congrats? How many times did you wipe? Only 2x? Nice! What did you lose?! 5% off your total health of 1,000,000 gazillion hit points?! Oh noes, better pick up your gravestone to be back at 100%! And you finally got the "Bracers of 900 Hours of Raiding" Lucky drop dude. Only a .5% chance of them dropping on the second Wednesday following a full moon.

Give me a GM Katana and some decent plate and lets see what we can do.

/rant

 

 

Couldnt agree more. This is the UO players remember and want for more than anything else. Last night I was on Rift I saw people chatting about wanting for an open sandbox game just like Ultima Online USED to be. The players are sick of the WoW clones and their BS. Its time for the MMORPG industry to get back to the basics, back to the game and the rules that started it all and put this genre of games on the map, back to the UO style of game.

What players need to do is start bugging the crap out of Richard Garriott and tell him to get off of his ass, to stop f**king around with the retarded ass social games and get back to what he was best known for, and that was making high quality RPGs and MMORPGs.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/Richard.Garriott.de.Cayeux?sk=wall

There's the link to his Facebook page, go nuts people!

Originally posted by MaeEye

Originally posted by vaultbrain

Originally posted by MaeEye

It is a real shame, quite honestly.  

 

I guess EA is more worried about their current subscription rather than the people that were subscriped years ago.  

 

Classic or not, we all have to admit that UO is still one of the better MMO's out there.  

 No, its really not. Not the way it is today. As it stands now, UO is just a 2d clone of WoW. You cant make the custom characters you used to be able to back in the old days. Today, the majority of the skills are gimped beyond all functionality. The only choice players have is to be a Bushido/archer/ninja/pally with 120.0% skills, or els they are completely worthless.

Not to mention crafting is completely worthless thanks to insurance and artifacts. Time was, the only way to make money was to have some sort of crafting skill and work hard at it, get good, then start selling stuff to other players. Today, all you need to do is spend an hour in one of the old dungeons and you can walk out with close to a 100k. With insurance, no one ever looses gear. With powder of fortification, it never deteriorates. And with artifacts, why bother with player made gear? All of the old staples that made UO crafting great are gone.

Then theres the combat. PvE is uber easy, and PvP is completely poinless and item dependent. In PvE, players are invincible. Monsters are NO threat what so ever, thanks to arti suits giving players god mode. LRC suits make mages into casting machines. SSI suits make melee fighters into whilrwinds of death. In PvP, whoever has the best arti suit, speed hacks, and macros wins. It doesnt matter how skilled of a fighter you are, as long as some little puke can push one key that allows him to pull off 22004234239 moves at once, as a sword that hits you 2000 times in a second and has 100% hit lightning, fireball and harm, youre screwed.

No, UO isnt the best MMO out there. Hell, even Darkfail offers better game play. UO had its day, long long ago, back when people of vision, originality and creativity were in charge. Today, its nothing but jerk'd off morons who do whatever some corporate douch bag tells them, but ignores what the players have been begging for all these years.

I don't know.  I am going to have to disagree with you on that.  Yes, the game is nothing like how it used to be.  But how is it a WoW clone?  I fail to see that.  We still have housing, which is extremely customizable.  Vendors to sell our stuff on.  Then there is exploring the open sea ourselves in any manor we want.  Treasure hunting is extremely rewardable and fun to do with a group of people.  The customization is still there with the game.  Trying to find a full suit of LRC and having the ability to be able to cast spells without reagants, neat!  Sure, PVP isn't there anymore and it still is not the same UO.  But at least in UO there is still a world to live in and be apart of.

 

The world is still the same world from back in the late 90's, except more mysteries to explore.  I will agree that the game is now based more about items than before, but it is no where near a 'WoW' clone. 

In WoW, like in UO, crafting is pointless. In WoW, like in UO, the best suit of gear, hacks and macros wins out over player skill. In WoW, like in UO, the ingame economy is completely killed by gold farmers.

Character customization is completely killed. There are only, what, 6 functioning templates left? Even then, players have to depend on templates to have a functional character. Whatever happened to warrior mages? Warrior Thieves? Archer Mages? Pure Crafters? Imagination has been gimped, like the majority of the skills in the game.

World to live in? Sure, if you like living in an abandoned dead world where the only people ever around are gold spammers at the bank shouting web addresses all day long, or bot farmer characters farming gold and resources and the only "players" left are foul mouthed arrogant little pisspots. Oh, yes, such a vibrant world...... bah.

There are no "good" mmorpgs left. Its a EQ clone dominated market and no one has the balls to break the mold and try something new, and UO is no different.

Originally posted by Requiamer

Originally posted by Loke666

Maybe, if they did it well. But I am not impressed by the little art.

And Ultime really need Garriot, he made every game so far (and not just UO, I started play Ultima IV on Amiga). Sure he messed up TR but nobody is perfect.

R.G is working on an other project, and i think it is far more interesting that any possible UO2, especially knowing EA, an Uo2 will have nothing but the name from the original design. Also R.G said he will implement all the richness in role playing ulitima online had and even more in his new project. I don't recall the name of his new project, Britania something, and it will be browser mmo i think.

 

A 2sec search gave me that, feel free to find more

http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/96515

Bull, Garriott's next project is going to be a freaking social game. Bascially, he wants to combine all of the Zenga "Ville" games together into one horrid monstrosity that is going to suck more donkey balls than Matthew McConnahey (or however it is you spell that shirtless douchbag's last name)