I used to be against instances myself but there is definitely a good place for them.You have to first realize that there is only so much content to go around per level,yet there is thousands of users per server.This means theere is no way possible to have enough content for all without ruining it for each other.

You get your friends together to go do a quest line inside instance A,but wait there is 20 other groups of friends doing the same content.Now all your named or boss or mobs are dead leaving you with an empty dungeon.Ok well you might have some VERY patient groups that are willing to wait,but hold on,the first groups like the drops,so they are staying behind to also wait and camp the spawns,so nobody will be happy.

The leveling curve is antoher tough subject to fix in a perfect way.First one has to ask is WHY are we worried about the leveling curve?Since when does a level number mean anything?It is just like real life,you don't win by getting older,you don't turn 50 then say "I WIN".it really should not matter if level 1 takes 5 months or level 50 takes 3 months.

A game should be about a constant input of game material that allows the user of a role playijng game to continue forever with content.I feel the reason that level numbers have always been used is that devs lack the effort or ability to create compelling content that keeps players coming back.However using a level number seems to be a sort of carrot on a stick that lures players into  coming back to attain the max level for some false feeling of satisfaction.Objectively you cannot see any reason what so ever that a level number gives any satisfaction,after all it is just a number but it seems that soemehow it does lol.

Originally posted by coxyroxy

The more I use mmorpg and read the angry threads of members opinions of games the more I get down about games.

But I cant help it, this website is like my hub. It has good information and updates on games but the negative threads about games are very depresing.

Il try not to read the replys even if I get any at all,( but I'm sure I will ) as they will probably be full of hatred. Owe well.

I question the op's motive here...WHY??First of all ,i wonder if the OP actually wants to discuss this topic and will take into consideration BOTH viewpoints as i will TRY to point out the flaw to this accusation of HATRED.

WHY do you look at other peoples discussion of games as  HATRED?That tells me that you probably can't accept other peoples opinions?If for example somneone says they don't like a purple car or a pink car or they don't like the noise inside the car or they don't like the way it handles on highway or in turns ect ect,would you complain there is too much hatred on cars?Would you get all down and not want to talk about cars again?Would you write a post to Chrysler or GM and tell them you are down because there is too many negative comments about cars?See the point?One is actually a REAL life IMPORTANT facet of life,a LOT more important than gaming ever will be.

You do realize that a game has no feelings what so ever,it is just an inanimate object of  0's and 1's,what people say about games SHOULD be like the furthest thing down on your REAL LIFE agenda.If game discussion gets you down how do you cope with the millions of real life issues we have going,they don't take precedence?

I also question the validity of the HATRED statement because there has been as expected just as many MISLEADING articles including MANY by this site and it's editors and it's PAID outside articles that paint a ONE WAY view point or are trying to mislead potential customers into one way view points to support advertising.

Here  is the VERY big difference>.......

If user A be it an employee of mmorp[g.com  or anyone misleads potential buyers into buy ing a paid advertisers product by painting a false picture of that game,it can cost people money.

If user B say a negativer comment about a game,it might steer away a potential customer but at least won't have people WASTING their hard earned money on a product they would have never bought if not lied to or mislead by said user A.

The truth is ,LESS people will be steered away from one users negative comments,but marketing or misleading adverts DO mislead people,that is why marketing is a multi billion dollar induistry.

Soooooooooo my point is WHY are you ONLY concerned with a one way view point and NOT taking into consideration BOTH viewpoints?

To the OP again,you think it doesn't get MANY of us down when we see a constant barrage of misleading information on extremely bad games because it supports advertising here?Not only does misleading or outright FALSE information get us down but it actually breaks the rules set forth here by trying to BAIT users into a one way view point .I am talking about the original articles NOT a persons viewpoint on one particular aspect of that article.What i am trying to say is that you give a negative comment or two or three ,it is still far less than a FULL article of misleading or opinions painting a one way viewpoint.

Soooo you can discuss games with YOUR viewpoint,but wait no you can't if it doesn't meet OUR viewpoint?Since when does that make any sense in ANY sense of the definition of discussion?That is complete censorship and NOT allowing people to discuss gaming.This is actually the trend here that has been ruining this site and creating so much drama.

All you have to do is act like a mature adult ,make your viewpoint and NOT cry about other peoples viewpointsDISCUSS yes but not WHINING,however i have not seen this mature stand point by MANY users nor the staff here at MMORPG.com.

To ask the question of game play over graphics,ask yoruself if you would come to this website if it was all words ,no pictures?

There is no reason to not have quality graphics anymore,you do not need to make game engines,they can be licensed.A large part of game play is to actually SEE it play out,otherwise why bother to make a game if we are just going to imagine it in our mind?

You can go back 50+ years,people played board games with visible objects,they didn't just imagine it all.Even simple games like Monopoly or RISK have added graphics,the times of MUDS are long gone,they are museum pieces now.

There is a simple take on game development.Sure you can go the cheap easy route and offer it up for f2p,but when a developer takes the LONG term high cost approach it sends out a flag that they are SERIOUS about their game.The less serious approach means the developer is not so confident in their product ,so they are keeping the cost/risk down.

I feel the author of that post is way off on his criteira/breakdown or prediction.

Anyone that has followed SOE over the last couple years,knows EXACTLY what is in store for EQ NExt.Smedley has made it perefectly clear and is already showing it's faqce in EQ2,he is making a game designed around RMT.It has absolutely NOTHING to d owit hwhat Wow has done or is doing,SOE has always been the leader with other following,Wow was a result of EQ not the other way around.

This means people might finally get some of the quality and things they EXPECT from games but you will be forced to pay extra to get it.This will most likely mean tihngs like housing [extra cost]plot and house all extra.Furnishings will be made but only cheap ones, the BEST furnishings will be via cash shop/RMT.They already have different cash shop items to buy to change looks/attire ,i am sure this will continue maybe even worse.

I am extremely sure Next will be a great game,but at what cost?The extra 15 bucks a month devs were charging us was literally hundreds of millions EXTRA cash flow,yet we did not see the game qaulity to show it.Going the RMT route allows devs such as SOE to go beyond the 15 a month limit,this means a LOT more cash flow and with the low bandwidth use means not much more overhead.

This is where i HOPE players/gamers use their heads and weigh in on the VALUE.If it costs 50 bucks a month to fully enjoy the game the way it is meant to be enjoyed,that is not a fair shake and shoudl not be supported.The beginning of the game release is the BEST time to let SOE know how you feel,that is when they hope to recover the millions invested.Once they have thier investment back,the effort tends to dwindle or become generic [example more maps not much else].

I am a fair person,i believe since their will be a slight operating cost increase,the charge should reflect it.Yes we as paying customers we have to carry the freeloaders,but that shouldn't be more than a couple bucks.A better quality game takes more production time and we will need the bandwidth to increase to be able to handle it.So i feel a cost that amounts to around 20 a month would be fair,however if the RMT value goes above that ,it will be considered pure GREED and nothing more and i will not support it.

Why the hate thread,baiting thread and why is it still up after 7 pages?I guess it shows the hypocritical moderation here.

This thread is not discussing a mmorpg it is merely pointing fingers at users.

I for one predicted 5 million users not becuase i care about numbers but someone asked for opinions ,so i joined the discussion.I also predicted it would drop to 2 then eventually 500k after one full year.

I did not make any predictions or opinions out of hate as the OP so nicely LABELLED users,i did it because our opinions were asked.I actually tried to like SWTOR i played 6 players at one time,more than probably MOST,hardly qualifies as a hater.

I saw a game that offered a short term fix to  people looking for a game,but i did not see anything long term.

There might have been some people that gave an "OPINION" of mass exodus after the first month,but i doubt hey were claiming to know,it was merely an opinion.Example i thought Wow would never survive past the first year,becuase of lack of visual quality in a 3d VIDEO game world,but i was way off on my prediction.

Opinions btw cannot be WRONG,they are just opinions,so lose the HATE threrads geared towards hating on users that are only here to take part in gaming discussions.

Originally posted by MikeB

Originally posted by Meltdown

I feel like a +/- system on posts would also help with this issue. Although I believe that has already been suggested.

I believe we are currently investigating something like this. If and when I have additional information, I'll be sure to let you guys know. :)

Horrible idea it should be VERY obvious as to why.You agree with the OP you get + you don't you get -,extremely poor idea and a great way to create yet MORE drama around here.

You know what happens after that?people start using numbers in their threads ,so again MORE drama and gets away from the PURPOSE of discussing games.People will troll other users based on +/- scores ,i guarantee it,because i have seen it on other sites.Can't we just have a MATURE attitude around here? I mean geesh we are talking about discussing INANIMATE objects here [games],NOT wars,lives,disease,jobs ect ect.

What can mmorpg.com can do to lower the pain of fighting among mmo's :

Who is fighting?Pretty loose use of the word,sounds like a foregone conclusion.The very idea of a discussion site is to discuss,this means back and forth discussion,i think far too many miss the point or the definition of "discussion".

WHY can't people just discuss games and move on,why they do they feel the need to control another persons opinion with rules or flaming or name calling?

This +/- idea is a form of TAGGING users.I can't speak for others but i am pretty sure they do NOT like to be treated like cattle .put it this way ,would the admin and the staff members like to be tagged like cattle?How about we form a +/- for the admin and staff?

This USED to be one fun site to discuss gaming but sadly since the new regime took foot here it has gone down hill in a bad way.In the words of the admin,i like to say we give the admin a few chances to work it out,"we can work with you".

The fact this is even looked at is disturbing,yet more ways to create more drama.I see the admin is NOT doing a good job of creating a more mature site but looking for more ways to TAG users like cattle..../sad.

This sounds fair ,but is not the way it is acted upon.

We are seeing ONLY one sided moderation.I also see alot of ciriticsim of users and an ADMIN willing to take action,but i doubt any action ever agaisnt mods.

If there is a new game and 500 threads pop up and you discuss inside several of them even if you have an opinion ,unless it is one that agrees with the OP,it is treated differently.You are calling it excessive,but not calling on the excessive threads that do the same thing.

 I hope the site admin is open to criticism after all you can't critisize users and  unless you can accept it as well.

I noticed DRAMA building on this site a few years ago,i even put in a suggestion to use a word block to block out all the drama words like "hate" troll" "fanbois" ect ect.This advice was NOT adhered to.

Now what i have witnessed comes from the top.A few years back this site started throwing around a LOT of trolling accusations.What has happened from that point on ,is now we see it in almost EVERY single thread "your a troll" no "your a troll" "i'm not trolling,your trolling"..."your a hater" no your a hater.This was NOT a problem until this site started throwqing it around.Even if the admin is not willing to admit to guilt,the fact that these   flame words like "troll" hater" ect continue to go on ,shows that nobody here cares.

Now the next phase in making this site run with yet more drama.The site admin posts "increased moderation",so now all the immature people who don't like another persons opinion just hit "report" and even the admin has been encouraging this.

Someone in here even said  "i keep reporting over and over" and no bans.It sounds to me like a immture person TRYING to get people banned for whatever reason.Your site is encouraging this type of ongoing drama.

There are people losing jobs,struggling to pay bills,losing their homes,fighting wars ect ect,these are the importanrt things worth worrying about in life.This site has created DRAMA over the most immature and trivial things i have ever seen in my life.

Example if someone doesn't agree with you or posts they don't like a game,WHO CARES?Seriously what is the problem?The fact is if people are getting all tied up in a knot over trivial things,they are not mature people to begin with.This site is acting more like they support  the immature approach,if you don't like someting just hit "report".

I belong to UFC.COM a mulit millionairre business all about thre fighting.If there was ever a place to have drama it is there,but yo uknwo what,yo udon't get admins encouraging people to hit report all the time,nobody even talks about it.People there just post and discuss with no reasons needed nor are they criticized,they just have fun with it all.I beleive because the drama is not encouraged like it is here.

I was actually thinking of forwarding this post to Craig because i feel this site has been going bad for a few years now and that it needs better direction.Yes it is my opinion,but there is reason i offered the word block suggestion a few years ago,i saw this DRAMA coming,i believe others have seen it as well.

Originally posted by parrotpholk

You would think you might have included some screenshots to prove your point but nope. 

Exactly this is the typical nonsense we see at mmorpg.com then the mods allow these threads to continually pop up and ridicule the people who want to discuss or debate the viewpoints.

The FACT is the game is a DX9 game that standard of DX libraries was set in 2004,that is almost 8 years ago,i am sure MANY players have pc's that came out after DX9c.They didn't even allow AA and last beta the vsync was set to automatic,so that is not a game trying to allow the best options for graphics.

I would not say for one minute that the game has terrible graphics,i found them acceptable,i actually enjoyed tripping around the world,it was other "lack of" aspects that i didn't like.

The op is Baiting one particular viewpoint because NONE of what he substantiates has anything to do with ROLEPLAYING.

PVP has notihng to do with RP,other than what any other game does.This actually offers LESS options becuase you have to go to the games selected PVP area , RP'ing has to to do with YOUR ideas not the games or anyone else's.

NOT having to speed level is ALWAYS an option in every game nobody forces anyone,so again has nothing to do with RP.

NOT having to do RAIDs is also ALWAYS an option in EVERY game.

The STORY is a pre scripted story that the developer made,you have no control over that story,your ONLY option is to not engage in the story and walk away,otherwise it ALWAYS leads to the next "scripted part".Also when you enter your story the magic red/green barriers lock you,so you have no control over it what so ever.That is a contradiction to what roleplaying stands for.Example what if i want to roleplay and go back and talk to that npc?I can't the red barrier locks you out.

This is right out of WIKI...  A role-playing game is a game in which the participants assume the roles of characters and collaboratively create stories.

the keyword is CREATE,this game offers nothing to the creation of anything that is roleplaying,at least nothing that i have found,and i also played the game quite a bit.

Roleplaying is the option to do and go where you want with YOUR STORY,the one you make up in YOUR mind to roleplay out,NOT the games pre scripted story,especially one that locks you out with red barriers.

I think OP does not understand what Roleplaying actually is.So i will give an example....Say i want to roleplay as an ORC,the game would allow me to use the Orcish language or allow me to talk to other orcs in that language.

SWTOR does not even have a language system.

SO this thread did not make one single valid argument to Roleplaying.It actually made points that have nothing to do with RP'ing.So either a typical baiting thread to tell everyone SWTOR is the best,like we don't have enough already,OR the OP does not know what Roleplaying is?

Start of 80 day closed beta,then there wil lbean open beta  and that is just for Korea.Then they need a NA publisher.

Yep that is all it is ,people acting extremely immature becuase someone doesn't agree with them.

The problem i have is MATURITY.How is a poster suppose to account for the other readers immaturity level?ISome people you could tell them SWG is closing down and they get all bent out of shape.So i guess we need to be mind readers here now?Seriously how is one to know how thousands of readers are going to react?

SO the way this site has been run as of right now,it encourages people to just go around calling others TROLLS and constantly hit the report button.

Look at the STAFF members response ,they did not say use proper judgement.

Why do i NEVER need to hit the report button?Am i a little more mature and know there is FAR more important things in life to worry about than a gaming thread?Why is this site not enforcing that there is more important things in life,because there most certainly is?

I saw this all coming a few years ago ,when this site deemed it neccessary to start calling people trolls.Now MANY users are calling others trolls,it has got down right ridiculolus and nothing more than IMMATURE.This site is EQUALLY to blame as the users are.

Also it is VERY hypocritical to criticize the users posts here when we all know darn well there has been some indiscreet REVIEWS on certain games here.Is it ok to ouright lie but not ok to give your truthfull opinion anymore,without worrying about stepping on someones toes?Lets be Adults here,the site is every bit as guilty as the users,so nobody should be acting all high n mighty like they never do wrong.

Here is the problem with this so called negativity.MMRPG.com is imo the MAIN culprit.

I see a LOT of immature people take things personally and take offence to ANYTHING that they  don't agree with.How can one adult account for the possible readers immaturity level?I see a LOT of TROLL accusations been thrown around this site and NEVER moderated for doing it.

So which is it ,are people allowed to discuss topics here or not?Or is MMORPG.com encouraging immaturity by encouraging people to hit report  and call everyone a TROLL whenever they disagree?

Your staff memeber sare allowed to have their opinions "as should be" so why is there the grey area for users here?

I have actually noticed that since MMORPG.com started throwing around the trolling term,that is EXACTLY about the same time users here started throwing it around in just about EVERY single thread.So i feel MMORPG.com is the culprit,their moderators started throwing it around so now all the kids see it and they throw it around.Was there not a more MATURE way to handle it,than creating this FLAME war of  "your a troll" no "your a troll' ?

It is SIMPLE,you discuss the topic,if someone is not discussing the topic,then  you warn them.Why does MMORPG.com  NEED to create this GREY area like the term trolling contradicts the very definition of "discussion".Why is this site FEEDING the problem?Now i see mods telling everyone ,oh just go ahead and hit report whenever you feel like it.VERY sad and not the MATURE way to handle things.

I actually misunderstood the title ,i thought the OP  actually broke down some of the animations so we can see how many frames they used.Korean game and F2p are famous for going cheap,that is why their animations look so fast.I don't think many truly understand all the effort that goes into making games.That is why i get frustrated when i hear someone  say something looks great when it is a rubbish effort.

Those slo mo needed to be a little slower but based on what i see ,Bioware did not put a lot of effort into the .ani frames either.I would love to see someone actually break them down into frame by frame.At some point somone might create a viewer for the game.However of course the developer in this case Bioware might not like it lol.Developers don't like any of their player base to know when they are going cheap on game design.A top quality animation would have around 20>30 .ani frames sometimes with world bosses or those special ones you will have even more..The very old original 2D based games had around 3-5.

I noticed in a few GW2 videos that they didn't allow their bosses to move they were scripted then became stationary,this  again makes for some easier/lazier animation work.

This topic also will show players why devs soemtimes don't give mobs any abilities beyond them using the gun to pew pew,they don't want to spend the time and effort to create more animations.Then again this entire topic goes even further into why Bioware made only one model each,again less work on animations if only one model.

I "THINK" he said the game allows players to play as they like without the game deciding how you play.

I found it to be the exact opposite and didn't really make me think at all.Example red/green magic barriers tha ttell YOU when you can enter and when you can't.Also no matter how you answered your 3 choices,it always ended the same leading into the next part of the story,very linear story telling.

When a couple thugs show up to intercept you,there is going to be a fight no matter what how you answer.When you challenge one of the main leaders,they just warn you again and still move onto the next part.

If you want to pull ONE mob,you can't because the game  automatically has all 3 linked to gether.You have no choice or say in any of the game .

I actually got the impression Planetside 2 looks alot like Tabula Rasa,i never got that feeling in SWTOR.

Originally posted by claytos

thanks for the link Meowhead.

I'm so exited for GW2. I think the fact that he played the demo 6 times make his top 10 more.... significant.

If he actually understands what he is talking about and i didn't get that picture.I have seen that identical article before ,so it is just copy paste material.

I can go into detail and explain why most of the reasons are null or unimportant but to cut the post short i will skip right to number 1

I don't doubt it wil llook nice, thought GW1 looked good enough,however there are important factors to discuss.

GW1 was famous for making plain jane static meshses with no insides.That is why they can make free to play gaming,becuase they eliminated immersion and about a full year or more of work.effort.To design insides with nice architecture takes at least 10x longer if not more than to just make a static mesh.Also when you keep  your maps rather empty it is easier to pull off graphics.So it wil lbe interesting to see how ANEt pulls off non instances and keeping the world full of activity ,aside from events which are non realistic  spawns.

I will post this example of  SINGLE person who spent 8 weeks to make a gorgeous map that wil lrival anything in GW1 or GW2 built on the IOS platform wich is ipads/tabs ect ect.Not only did he make it look good but there is some nice architecture insides of a coupel buildings. Epic Citadel

My point is that if a single person on a IOS can do it,then a AAA developer with a much more robust platform can most certainly do it ,with no excuses.The point is it is nothing to brag about anymore,it was  when all games looked like EQ and Wow but those days are long gone.

This is why copying other games poorly designed systems is bad.

FFXI's sub class system allows your player to continue,you don't need to file your main and collect dust,you keep going.

This is one my biggest concerns for SWTOR and other games that do the same thing.This is becuase i have zero interest in anything end game and i do not care to shove my player away for the sake of an alt.I rather do like in FFXI hit level cap in one class then continue to learn and develop NEW skills leveling sub classes.

The problem is SWTOR does not have any in depth structure to it's class system to do anything with it.WHat you do in a single player game is play to beat the game then roll an alt,well this is exactly what SWTOR Is doing,Bioware should learn soem better MMO systems than just copying the same single player design using "trees".

The peopel that designed or "lack of design" in the combat and class/character systems did a very weak job,i definitely would not hire them for another game.

Originally posted by snoop101

This is how I see it going down.

TOR will die very fast like Aion and WAR. People will still play it, but will slowely die off and go to only a few servers.

I think a lot of the people that left WOW will go back to WOW.

I think companies are slowely starting to realize you cant just make a game that will please everyone and will need to go back to making games to cater to specific groups. Eve has showin that this works.

Some great single and multiplayer games out now on PC and consoles. A lot of the casual gamers have gone back to playing these.

 

I would also like to say that GW2 will be like guild wars with not a huge amount of players but enough to keep it going and have a good community.

Now that is one of the most intelligent things i have heard in the forums in a long time.It is so obvious,yet devs are still so dam greedy they try to do everything and poorly.

I agree on Eve but at the same time you can't have too many devs on the same track or they kill each other or one gets them all and the others struggle.

I think we will see a return or i guess another Eve or FFXI that cater to one type of crowd.Al lthe other games are sort of lumped into the same trends as each other.

It has actually been comical watching the same couple million gamers hop to every new game that comes out over the last few years.it is like they are all looking for that one game that has big numbers,so they can feel justified in calling it home.I mean geesh i hear the same thing every time a game comes out "this game is the best" then the subs drop off like flies very quickly.

I knew before this title became a game not to expect too much,but like the title suggests ,i too expected too much.

I really do feel this game was on the right track to become a really good game.The problem began as soon as i heard they had a definite release date set around the same gimmick Blizzard uses ,which is Christmas launches,i knew it was doomed.

This told me it was no longer about the game but all about a time line that had to be met at the cost of the game.SWTOR is a true brilliant shell of a game with the potential to be better than every over game,but it falls 1-2 years short of production.

Yes of course there will ALWAYS be players no matter what kind of condition a game releases in,i have seen tons of gamers in freeware games,2D pay to win games all kinds of games.

So many seem to justify games by numbers,they need be reminded of Farmville and Habo hotel,numbers mean nothing.Only people with the knowledge and the developer themselves know what kind of effort was put into a game.I can see where there is very good effort and very little effort,it means a product thet never got to be as goods as it could be.

I beleive GREED is the overlying factor,a game like FFXI was released with expectations of breaking even after 5 years,now developers want instant profits or can only wait 1 year to to turn a profit.This means less time and cost to development,which automatically means unfinished games or games full of holes ,cutting corners but never as good as it could be.

The 38 studios is the ONLY developer i have ever witness to spend probably close to 100 million without a known IP to back it up.SWTOR was an easy profit for EA,so they SHOULD have afforded the game it's proper developement time.Even the 38 studios game was cut short,it was SUPPOSE to be a grand MMO but becuase of cost will stop short and  be only a single player game.

I will not be playing but i predicted 5+ million peak at some point.I do not think the game has any lasting power so i believe it will hit 5 million alot sooner maybe even before that 3 mil june prediction.

I only played two weekends,but i played a lot and really got deep into the games structure,that is when i saw it will not not last long.Most people will do the race to level cap thing,to feel they got their money's worth,buit after that unless your into a steady feed of pvp in the game,i just can't see players sticking around.

IF Bioware invests a lot of money and effort into the game after launch and updates many of it's weak systems,then it could be a strong game for many years,but i believe that this won't happen and the way they designed the game ,won't allow it to be any better,so it is what it is and will remain that way.