Originally posted by Grailer

Amazing Ive been playing Borderlands 2 all day and I haven't capped my level or even close to it .

 

Why are single player games so much better than MMO games ? The only game in recent times that came close to a quality MMO was GW2 . 

 

 

You won't get to 50 until near the end of the second play through.

Because they are exactly what they set out be. They aren't a perpetual work in progress like MMOs are which often are never a complete game experience.

Oh and golden key codes will ruin the fun of finding good loot. Enjoy.

In other words, more epic than possible.

I'll read the first 10 or so quests and if it isn't interesting or concise then I will probably skip the majority of the rest of them. Once you've read some fantasy quest text, you've read them all and generally is a waste of time. I have to absolutely love the game lore to go out of my way to read it. Example-Skyrim I've read a lot of the various books in the game before building a library for them.

Often quest text are uninteresting because of the format. NPC: BLAHBLAHBLAHYAMMERYAMMERYAMMER PC:ok... ok.. ok... Give me the job. But when it is a conversation with multiple dialog choices (Neocron) or even fully voiced (SWTOR) I'm more likely to read/listen to it all...well atleast the first time through.

Aiming on a target to heal can be frusterating but there is some pride to be had if you are really skilled at this. It is good when you don't need to constantly be healing and a soft lock-on to targets is nice to have.

Select to heal can be fun as a main healer with various types of heals or with only few heals mixed with attacks or other abilities.

The first is better for faster paced combat and the other for slower

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

People wishing for the failure of things that do not hurt anyone physically or emotionally are sick.

 

I wich the best to all of you may the best win, thats gallant and knightly.   Now compare that i hope you die so i will win attitude and it tells you more then enough about those people saying so.

This. It is a disappointing thing to see fellow gamers do.

The concept sounds pretty good and promising on it's own but I don't know how well it work in an MMO. Does it even need to be "massive"?

You create all of your 18 creatures from the start? That sounds like a lot of work to set up for a new player. I'd imaging a new player start with 3-6 standard creature types and is at little risk of loosing them until the player gets used to how the game works first. Then as they continue to play the warband size will increase and they can aquire/loose more.

18 creatures and each can have weapons and armor? Sounds like a lot to manage. I'd think 8-12 would be plenty if you are going to have to equip them too. Once you get so many creatures you simply won't care if you loose them. With so many of them they will be viewed as disposable cards instead of 'your' creatures. Maybe that is what you are reaching for, I do not know.

I like that you atleast have essences that can change your strategy some. I just hope you can have enough variety in tactics or playstyles. "Here's my tank cards and here's my damage dealer cards" would be very boring. What I love about TCGs is that the cards have not just the special atributes (protector, frenzy, flanking) but that they have unique effects which you can identify to the card by name. And such effects like: +10 defense for each enemy exceeding your creatures, +20 attack for each 10 points of damage, If damage was recieve when attacking -10 defence but if recieved when defending +30 attack, and so on, they need to be created and tailored to that creature. I know most players won't be able to or want to come up with such interesting effects.

I also think letting all of your players make your (and their own) content will result in less interesting content. Definately need to have atleast 50 creatures premade or have a lot of templates to work from.

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by Squeak69

why is he talking so slow, oh wait you must be like a tourist or something who thinks talking slower will make you saying it wrong make more ence.

anyway, i reallity theme park often give the exact same amount of choices that a sand box dose, it just also give a story you can follow to.

lets review, what peple claim a sand box should be is.

ability to roam anywhere freely ( open world)

crafting

player based economy ( no matter how messed up)

buil;ding ( ok this is one i think is required in sandbox for some reason other dont agree)

hmmmm looking at this list and i know ill get hanged for this, dousnt that descibe WoW minus the building aspect.

just saying alot of those "theme park" MMOs you can do this stuff in, heck i tend to do most of this stuff in them, my faverite kind of MMO is one that has both good story elements and sand boxy style game play o the side.

That's part of why most players' definition of sandbox is terrible.

The other part being that obviously the terms "sandbox" and "themepark" were used because sandboxes involve sand (player authorship; the player can change the world by manipulating the "sand") and themeparks involve rides (dev authorship; the devs populate the world with "rides".)  So the key differentiator is who's authoring the experience.

So the thing that makes a sandbox a sandbox is (wait for it...) the sand.  Elements of the game which are player-authored; player-manipulated; player-created.

Obviously a game must have some dev authorship to even function as a game.  EVE's developers set a lot of game rules to ensure the game actually works, and even a more sandboxy game like UO has many fixed systems players don't control.  These game rules make the game more themepark-like, but obviously nobody's necessarily pushing for a "pure" sandbox, and by calling a game sandbox you're merely describing a game which generally has more player authorship than usual.

If you count the mods, which is more player authorship that usual (a lot more than other games with mods), then you have clearly defined Skyrim as both themepark and sandbox. The dev tools being outside of the game instead of inside but result it greater freedom of artistic expression.

Words fail, especially the word sandbox. Time to start using freedombox...

Often, no, because the choices presented are clear enough that I can understand what they mean and if it is something I would enjoy. However, sometimes such choices have no clear presentation nor a tutorial or willing player to guide me. If I have to go too far out of my way to learn what they mean then the game isn't doing a very good job with those choices.

There isn't such a thing as too many choices for me but too many bad choices can be viewed as very few good choices. Still though, deciding on a choice that I both like and that works more effectively in a playstyle or is less ideal to present a greater challenge, is it own meta game. Such an example would be the opportunity to create your own character build when choosing from a large list of skills. If 20% of the skills are broken and 60% are clearly not as good as the rest would be a bad use of adding more choices. But that is getting a bit off topic...

IMO it is a good thing. Fewer MMOs are shutting down.

It shows that developers are more willing to change to survive than to try and fail with their restricted decisions.

Originally posted by Popori

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Popori

Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by mmoguy43

Mtibbs1989, we aren't on the same page.

You: "You can never can be better than the big spender"

Me: "You are never even be at the average because of not spending more"

 Me:  Are you having fun?  Yes, then who cares.  No; drop the game.

Me:  You specifically state multi-boxing, which exists today.  F2p does not change that.  Therefore it is a non issue in a f2p vs p2p comparison.

Thank you! lol I don't know how else to say it. They'll be "better" than you regardless oh how many acounts or how much money they throw at the game.

I've never understood this "take what you are given" mentality.

 It isn't a take what you are given.  They are supplying a product, I have no way to force them to develop what I want.

My choices are play or don't.  Thats it nothing more.  If I don't like it, I won't take it.  I'll find someone that is offereing what I want. 

I see.  I'm thinking more in the context of the F2P market and not specific products, belay my last.

Probably because I started by using a non-F2P example to make a different point in a F2P thread.

You just can'T get away from all these F2P threads.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by mmoguy43

Mtibbs1989, we aren't on the same page.

You: "You can never can be better than the big spender"

Me: "You are never even be at the average because of not spending more"

None of that is important if you are playing pve, and play for fun, instead of epleen. Do you really need to be "above average" in a game where achievements are just illusions anyway?

What if I play for grouping, pvp, and the community? It could be imporant in that regard. Yes, I always need to start at atleast the average even if merely play for fun.

Mtibbs1989, we aren't on the same page.

You: "You can never can be better than the big spender"

Me: "You are never even be at the average because of not spending more"

Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

Originally posted by mmoguy43

Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

Originally posted by mmoguy43

Originally posted by Disdena

I used to love playing Mega Man. Then I found out you could buy a thing called Game Genie to get infinite lives. Now I hate Mega Man; I don't want to pay money for a Game Genie, so my version of the game is "crippled" because I only have 3 lives.

 

Judge the game sans cash shop on its own merits. Don't worry about what other people are doing, and don't worry about how much easier the game would be if you paid for help. The idea that the normal mode of a game can be crippled by the mere existence of an optional alternate way of playing is ludicrous.

Is it? (It is a bit different when talking about MMOs where you/your character is compared to others.)

Just wait til the alternate way becomes the norm. How many people that play EVE have two or more accounts so they can run more profitable operations solo? Well, most people I know do. So if I don't then I am crippled and unable to make enough credits so effortlessly to buy PLEX. My income gets crippled for not paying more.

No F2P but still an advantage can be bought.

 You will never be able to win with this happening (and it happens in every game Subrscription and Free-to-Play) however, this does not stop people from still enjoying the game. So in your mind you're crippled however in someone elses they're playing the game to their advantage and there's nothing you can do to stop it.

You are completely avoiding that if it is the norm, ie. nearly everyone but not you has the advantage, then you are at a disadvantage most of the time.

I'm not avoiding it. I'm stating that you'll never be better than the guy who has 5-10 accounts on a subscription game or pays 500-1000 on a free-to-play game. You have to race with your wallet and I'm sorry if you don't understand this. However, I understand fully that I'm not going to race with my wallet. In fact, if you read this magical thing in my signature. I state exactly what you're accusing me of not knowing, "Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you."

 

No, really? Of course there can aways be someone that is better. I'm not talking about that,[mod edit]

Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

Originally posted by mmoguy43

Originally posted by Disdena

I used to love playing Mega Man. Then I found out you could buy a thing called Game Genie to get infinite lives. Now I hate Mega Man; I don't want to pay money for a Game Genie, so my version of the game is "crippled" because I only have 3 lives.

 

Judge the game sans cash shop on its own merits. Don't worry about what other people are doing, and don't worry about how much easier the game would be if you paid for help. The idea that the normal mode of a game can be crippled by the mere existence of an optional alternate way of playing is ludicrous.

Is it? (It is a bit different when talking about MMOs where you/your character is compared to others.)

Just wait til the alternate way becomes the norm. How many people that play EVE have two or more accounts so they can run more profitable operations solo? Well, most people I know do. So if I don't then I am crippled and unable to make enough credits so effortlessly to buy PLEX. My income gets crippled for not paying more.

No F2P but still an advantage can be bought.

 You will never be able to win with this happening (and it happens in every game Subrscription and Free-to-Play) however, this does not stop people from still enjoying the game. So in your mind you're crippled however in someone elses they're playing the game to their advantage and there's nothing you can do to stop it.

You are completely avoiding that if it is the norm, ie. nearly everyone but not you has the advantage, then you are at a disadvantage most of the time.

Not talking about "winning".

Not talking about "enjoying".

Originally posted by Disdena

I used to love playing Mega Man. Then I found out you could buy a thing called Game Genie to get infinite lives. Now I hate Mega Man; I don't want to pay money for a Game Genie, so my version of the game is "crippled" because I only have 3 lives.

 

Judge the game sans cash shop on its own merits. Don't worry about what other people are doing, and don't worry about how much easier the game would be if you paid for help. The idea that the normal mode of a game can be crippled by the mere existence of an optional alternate way of playing is ludicrous.

Is it? (It is a bit different when talking about MMOs where you/your character is compared to others.)

Just wait til the alternate way becomes the norm. How many people that play EVE have two or more accounts so they can run more profitable operations solo? Well, most people I know do. So if I don't then I am crippled and unable to make enough credits so effortlessly to buy PLEX. My income gets crippled for not paying more.

No F2P but still an advantage can be bought.

Considering the fact that F2P's biggest funders are the whales that dump a lot more cash than time into the games, it isn't surprising.

How much of that money is recycled into making more cash shop stuff compared to improving the rest of the game?