deluxe edition. I have to buy 2 so no way I'm dropping 300 bucks especially when I don't care about half of what's in the CE. Which doesn't bother me, its a CE, its for collectors ... so good on Bioware kicking off the cash flow with a bang.

Originally posted by Deewe

There's something everyone is missing in the pre-order:

• We are clueless of when the game will be available
• We don't even know the payment method(s) nor the monthly subsciption fees
• We don't know if there will be microtransactions
• We don't know how long will be the headstart

 

Usually when you pre-order a MMO you at least know when it will launch, how much it will cost you.

 

 

Most of us know just enough ....

1) November roughly ... good enough for me

2) 15 bucks more than likely give or take a buck

3) More than likely, vanity stuff

4) 3-6 days is a good bet again

Enough info for me to make a decision on a game I'm deifnitely getting. If that wasnt good for you or others, no need to pre order.

 So what exactly are you mad about? The fact that you bought the CE when you didn't want to in the first place? I didn't want to spend that kind of money no matter what was in it. I have to buy 2 copies anyway, so 300 bucks wasn't an option. I've been waiting for the preorders to drop so I could order, and I got the deluxe ... and I'm happy. Man up , accept the blame for yourself instead of pointing a finger at the person with no gun.

Originally posted by sungodra

Originally posted by SlickShoes

Originally posted by sungodra

What kind of prediction is "I dont know yet"???

 

My prediction is it will do similiar to rift, maybe a lil better. 

It should do way better than Rift, from the point of view it will gather up a lot of current and previous SWG subs and also it has the hype behind it to pick up subs from generic star wars fans that will buy anything related to the franchise. RIFT didn't have anywhere near that kind of fanbase to build from.

 Please, once people are done with the story they will be done with the game and on to something else like GW2 which wont require a sub fee.

 

That 150 dollar CE is a joke by the way, I honestly do hope this game crashes and burns by the time GW2 comes out.  I'm a star wars fan and I was an avid supporter of TOR until they came out with that outlandish 150 CE, now I have to make up my mind  TOR or food for the month....  Looks like I'll be living off rice and beans .

 

Whoever says 150 is acceptable is just a complacent yes man that will pay anything a company asks for.  It's like people with Gas, but you have to go to work so you have to have gas, TOR you don't have to have...

 

Wish folks would make a stand about the Gas prices, but everyone is so complacent in this country and around the world they let these companies rape our wallets.

 

Oh and yes, the CE is almost a requirement in most peoples minds...  If you are like me and want to experience everything the game has to offer. Which alot of people do.

  I never used to buy the CE of games because there was generally nothing worth justifying the extra 40 to 50 bucks. I mean , I only buy it for the extra in game stuff anyway. At the normal price it was a no brainer even If I didn't want the collector's junk they put in it. But it IS a collector's edition, it is meant for collectors. I think Bioware probably did it right and priced it for collectors. At that price it was again a no brainer for me .... I didnt buy it because the little extra in game stuff you would get wasn't worth it. And it isn't a big deal to me.... i dont get a stupid in game vendor or a dumb pet droid or w/e the hell it was. I believe in principle but I also believe in not letting things you can not control bother you ... just enjoy the game.

 It's more simple than all of that, people don't care. People don't care about you and they don't care about following orders If they think it deviates from what they want to do.

Originally posted by lugal

Originally posted by Bama1267

Originally posted by lugal

Preordering any MMO is a bad idea. All those who preorder are the ones that are at fault that MMO companies feel they can release unfinished games. No MMO has ever sold out of copies. Its just ridiculous and it hurts the overall community.

 I've never pre ordered a game that I felt was unfinished once I played it. And I HAVE ran into the problem of an MMO or single player game being so popular that I could not get a copy at the local game stores on release. I preorder because I want to insure I have it and It is ready when I want to get it. The bonuses are just icing on my cake.

 

 I fail to see how any pre order in any way has an effect on how long a game stays in production. People buying unfinished games is the LONE problem, whether the pre order was up or not, they would still buy the game once it was released  making pre order irrelevant.

Read this.

http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/4148/PreOrders-and-Lifetime-Subs.html

It's nothing but an opinion by an editor and he gave no information to back up why it gives a company no incentive to release a quality game. Like I said a pre order has nothing to do with it. Most people can even cancel a pre order before the game comes out. Not to mention the same people who would pre order are still going to buy the game on release ... Not beign a dick , I really don't see how there is an effect. Lifetime subs ... yeah , I could some effect with that. But the whole pre order deal seems irrelevant to me.

Originally posted by Deathstrike2

Originally posted by olepi

Sigh, I'm probably just getting old, but I still don't understand why anyone would pre-order something if they don't know what it is. How many other things do you pre-order? You pay for your car, food, house, before you get to see it? You pre-order clothes and then wait to see what they look like? You pay for a movie before it comes out? Weird.

 

Everytime I go to the movies, I "preorder" it.  I pay for it up front without knowing much about it.  Same with food from a drivethru.  In fact, there are several things I pay for up front. 

Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.  *shrug*

 At least with drive through you can drive back around and throw it on the counter and make a big scene till they make you something else.

Originally posted by lugal

Preordering any MMO is a bad idea. All those who preorder are the ones that are at fault that MMO companies feel they can release unfinished games. No MMO has ever sold out of copies. Its just ridiculous and it hurts the overall community.

 I've never pre ordered a game that I felt was unfinished once I played it. And I HAVE ran into the problem of an MMO or single player game being so popular that I could not get a copy at the local game stores on release. I preorder because I want to insure I have it and It is ready when I want to get it. The bonuses are just icing on my cake.

 I fail to see how any pre order in any way has an effect on how long a game stays in production. People buying unfinished games is the LONE problem, whether the pre order was up or not, they would still buy the game once it was released  making pre order irrelevant.

 Mistake? I'm more than certain this game won't be total trash. I will get my money out of it If nothing else and get a few pre order perks. CE though? No brainer, I'm not spending 300 bucks because I would need to buy 2 copies. Seems LA and Biowares plan to make tons of money kicked off with a bang ... good strategy on them. People who really wanted the collectors stuff should be happy as well but for me ... the statue and "collectors" crap werent enough to make me pony up that kind of money. But it's a collectors edition meant for collectors so that's fine with me.

 So you guys expected anything different after the NGE? You spent years suporting the game anyway instead of having any kind of principle .... and *Big surprise* they screwed the remainder of you over and shut it down.

Originally posted by Malir

Originally posted by Bama1267

 That's how I've always seen it. No reason to kill a person's character because they weren't knowledgable of how future skills they were going to get would unfold. Also, not everyone is an MMO vet .. they will have a hard enough time as it is. And why make someone intentionally gimp themselves as they level up for those knowledgable enough to know how the talents will unfold. Last but not least ....everything gets buffed or nerfed and they aren't always nice enough to do resets.

 I definitely don't like hot swapping but the ability to tweak your self  seems pretty good to me so far.

I always viewed it as Aion did it.  For example, you have the Scout base class, then at level 10 you chose your "advanced class" to either Assassin or Ranger, and you couldn't change it after that.  They were viewed as seperate classes, and not interchangeable. EQ2, I believe, had it this way at launch, and later changed their system.

I would prefer to not be able to ever change from one advanced class to another with-in the same base class.  

 Guess I don't read so well, lol. I mistook talent tree for advanced classes. bah ... yeah I'm in teh same boat as you on that.

Originally posted by Deewe

Originally posted by whilan

Originally posted by Gormok

What prompted the class design change from choosing a permanent Advanced Class to having the ability to switch?

Dallas Dickinson: I think we just decided that it is just such a significant choice that you make. We try to give you as much information as possible so you make a good one, but we know that there are some people who choose to play as a Juggernaut, play for three levels, and are like "aww man!" We want to make it so that the first time you choose to respec your Advanced Class, it is relatively painless; it is going to cost some credits, but it is not going to cost a ton. Though after that, we want to make it very difficult. We don't want people to hot swap their Advanced Class willy-nilly; we want to make sure it is something you don't do all the time.

 

Very nice find, i'm going to highlight the parts i found most interesting and maybe other will as well in light blue.

First one: seems they are giving the players a one shot change at little cost on AC just in case the player makes a mistake. 

My opinoin: seems like it decreases the importance of hte first choice but i guess it was for gameplay reasons they allowed it once, good to see they are increasing the cost to do it afterwords by a lot and i'm glad they don't like hot swapping.

 

Just for the little story they allowed AC respec because players in beta where vehement about it.

 

Not only the choice was made too soon but players felt mostly clueless of what they just did when they choose their AC.

 

Remember not all testers are MMO vets.

 That's how I've always seen it. No reason to kill a person's character because they weren't knowledgable of how future skills they were going to get would unfold. Also, not everyone is an MMO vet .. they will have a hard enough time as it is. And why make someone intentionally gimp themselves as they level up for those knowledgable enough to know how the talents will unfold. Last but not least ....everything gets buffed or nerfed and they aren't always nice enough to do resets.

 I definitely don't like hot swapping but the ability to tweak your self  seems pretty good to me so far.

 Meh, it was a tad high but they could obviously get away with doing it. The price made it a no brainer for me ... no way Im spending 300 bucks for just 2 games. I normally get CE's for the extra bonuses in game which aren't much to speak of .. but generally it isn't that much more so I would do it. In this case, I don't care about a statue and the in game extras werent enough to make me spend that kind of money. Nice for a big collector though I bet and I harbor no ill will toward Bioware for doing it ... the digital seemed to be fine enough for me.

 Politics ... *rolls eyes* Actually I find etiquette to be "the game", save the politics and other random dumb sh it for your guild or tells. I don't play a game to listen to people who think they KNOW how to fix government and the like. I realy don't care If you like Obama or Bush, it ends up being 50/50 and it degenerates into name calling in most cases. I also do not care to talk about what country has the biggest "wang" ... this ends up degenerating into some form of country bashing, lately US bashing seems to be a good wagon to jump on. If I want to talk about this real life crap, ill talk to my family or friends or watch the news. In game I would like to sit down , relax and enjoy my game.

 These days instead of listening to anything useful, Im forced to turn chat off because of a minor % of people who think it is there god given right to s hit all over other people's game play. Or maybe, I just played WoW too long, lol.

 Depends on the kind of person you are. If you are the kind of person that gets hyped up and ecstatic about what people are saying ... then chances are you will be disapointed. Or are you a realist that will take the game AND it's flaws because it is certain to have some ... maybe you will have a good time. I for one know it isn't the second coming of Jesus Christ or SWG for that matter. I know LA and Bioware made this game to appeal to the masses AKA WoW style, to make as much money as humanly poissible with the Star Wars IP. I know this game will be decent and I hope it has just a few other things that set it apart from other MMO's other than lightsabers. Me? I can't wait.

Originally posted by Ichmen

while i dont play WoW... nor do i know who this person is (i did watch the OP link) it seems like blizzard did a correct call yet an incorrect call. 

my guess is they automatically assumed the vast number of people during their little event was designed to crash the servers. so they banned him for being the ring leader or what they assumed was the ring leader. 

so in that regard they are correct in banning him, if his intent was to crash and disrupt the players server/enjoyment of the game. as im sure there are more then 5k people playing on that server so the crash will have effected more then just the people at the little event. 

but at the same time.. he should not have been banned for this.. (ill take liberty and assume he did not intend to crash the server, as i cant read his mind this is all speculation) his event was designed to promote fun and enjoyment of the game. which blizzard should have wanted, the fact it crashed the server says alot about blizzards server networking clusters and server stability  given the age and profititablity of WoW blizzard should have had stable enough servers to handle this many congurant connections in one location. it seems to me blizzard used him as a scape goat for their own poor server networks.

ofcourse this is all speculation. we do not know what he was planning in his mind, publically he has stated it was a fun event (devils advicate that may or may not be true. only he knows) blizzard blames him for it so as its their game they removed him. even if he did not intend to do it. 

tin-hatting this subject you could claim blizzard was out to get him and when he ran his event, they pulled the plug on the server to crash it and blame him. 

only he and blizzard know both sides, while it doesnt matter to me if he is at fault or not. this is a very interesting topic. as it could be used for more griefing means later on if blizzard does not correct their servers.

 

though they do not have to reinsate his account if they do not wish to, as per their EULA and such... their game, their rules.. if they dont want you to play ... you wont be...

 

as a gamer, hopefully he gets it sorted and either gets his account back or gets this delt with, as it sounds pretty harsh reguardless if he did or did not mean to crash a server.

Pretty harsh if he did do it? Sounds more like fitting If you would ask me.

Originally posted by Cruoris

Originally posted by dougmysticey

Originally posted by Cruoris

Originally posted by eluldor
Sorry, but droids are simply servants and sidekicks. Having a mass number of independant droid players would not fit into lore. The droid in empire strikes back has been mentioned. IG-88 and 4-lom, both in that movie, each have unique backgrounds that separate them from the mass servant identity. HK-47 fits into his as well. All of these droids are also assassins/bounty hunters and pretty much ruthless killers, 4-lom had his light side time but ended up the same as the other two. Having all sorts of characters playing independant droids doesn't fit into star wars. Droids are bought and used, unless they're killing machines...not much room for exceptions...

 han solo was a sidekick, chewbacca was a servant.  got anything else?

 Han solo was not a sidekick. He was one of the three main protagonists (before adding Lando).  Chewbacca was the sidekick, as are C3PO and R2D2.

does han solo have a single independant goal in any of the movies?  no, no he doesent. he works for other people. he is a side kick to eat up screen time in between luke shrieking and whining.

 And this just sunk a semi intelligent discussion. This thread can no longer recover ...

Arguing the point is moot, it shouldn't be and it won't.

Originally posted by metatronic

I can't believe how no one can see this was all by design. Smedley still keeping his job after the NGE blunder.. Why do you think the NGE happened less than 6 months after the Combat Upgrade.. The CU was designed and intended to kill off the game's subscriber base so Lucas could pull the game from sony and allow Bioware to make a new one more like WoW. But where the CU failed the NGE succeeded. The game went from around 250k to 30k subscribers.. Now why would a company not revert back to the old style of game that many became addicted to playing? Its because they wanted SWG dead! So they could pull the plug easier with less friction and backlash with the game supporting less than 20k-30k users...

I think you guys petitioning is hilarious.. If any iteration of that game should be restored its the original CU we had that actually fixed many of the combat problems we had and they could have built onto an awesome system from there.. I bet that game would have grown immensely had they just held off and never did the NGE.. Many players left in droves for WoW and eq2 when they released that took a major chunck of the original games subscriber base. Those people would have come back at some point when they got bored of wow and eq2.. I mean, I didn't leave till the NGE and I was forced into playing eq2 because I really couldn't stand WoW beyond the 42nd level.. The combat was so monotonous and boring to the point it would put me to sleep.

Had SWG stuck with the CU and added in the theme park questing and dungeons/raids and rettained its awesome pvp battles, swg would still be thriving today.. I will admit though, the game by now would have needed a port over to a newer game engine supporting dx9.0c at least.. So in a way they do need swtor to come out for the newer engine but the 2 games are vastly different in play style.. I really don't think we will ever see a triple A sandbox mmo ever again and I don't consider eve to be in the same ball park since its all space sim crap.. I think the first company to come out with a triple A sandbox mmorpg with strong theme park elements such as raiding, quest hubs and group dungeons; that will be the game to take wow down in terms of subscribers.. Swtor won't compete with WoW's sub base and never will.. Bioware is not even in the same strata as Blizzard when it comes to making games. The new swtor game will unforunately be a single player-story driven, pay to play online co op game which is heavily derived from blizzards World of Warcraft. All because Lucas Arts wanted World of Warcraft's 10 million subscribers @ $15/month. Greed was and still is the driving factor behind all of this going back to the CU/NGE and why it was done in the first place. Most people with half a brain would of said "opps, we messed up, heres your CU back" after the NGE fiasco... But nothing happened! and no one lost their job... Ask yourself why..

  I didn't read past the first paragraph as it started to get way to "crazy". The first paragraph makes absolutely no sense. They brought up the NGE and didn't revert back because they wanted SWG dead? There would be less friction? That whole situation was the EXACT opposite. They PISSED off most of the player base who in turn quit, more or less killing it on the spot. Then they wanted to some how keep it alive until SWTOR came out and only piss off the rest of the player base that managed to stick around and support it? Sorry, everyone already knows that yes they wanted WoW subs, but they wanted them NOW and it didn't pan out, nothing more, nothing less. Why didn't they revert back? Arrogance

Originally posted by Painlezz

I wonder if...

A) They were losing money keeping SWG servers up and paying whatever fees were releated to the IP (if any)

or

B) They were making a little money or breaking even at least... And decided to shut down, taking a piss on all their existing customers...

 

Seems to me, unless you're losing money, you should keep your customer happy and likely have them around when you release your next project.  I know if I were a huge SWG fan and they shut this thing down the way they did, i'd likely never invest any time or money into another SOE product again.

 Yeah, but you are talking about the same people who stayed around after the NGE and payed to play a beta while they revamped a game. If they stayed through that, most of em have no principle to begin with. Most, not all .. but hey most people have no principle at all these days.