Originally posted by Conza

Originally posted by Hamrtime2

As for someone who played both games to level cap, I can tell you that War is a much better game than AoC. Just an FYI..I played AoC for 3 months and war for 2. Even though I played War a month less I can tell you without a doubt that War is a far superior product when compared to AoC.

Just look at the subscription numbers. AoC sold over a million copies at launch and they now have less than 100k subs..probably around 50-60k. War on the other hand started with around 750k subs and their subs are somewhere around 300-400k.

Not sure if you did this but you might want to start the same thread on the War forums to get a fair assessment.

 

Have you played the game lately?

AoC: 200k

WAR: 250k

But WAR is declining while AoC is on the rise. AoC might easily be on the top a month or two from now.

 

Last figure I heard was that War had 300,000 people, officially. War may be in a decline but Age of Conan at best has just leveled off as the X fire stats aside from a few outliers held steady at 1000 +/- 200 over the last couple of months.  War also has at least 3 times the current subs so to point a finger @ War atm is to mock AoC as AoC is not in the same league now.  

War 300k subs, 3.5k +/- 500 X fire users/day

AoC 75-125k subs, 1k +/-200 x fire users per day.

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Interestingly, X Fire is being pushed in AoC to inflate the popularity of the game, http://forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=181239 just like all of those phony "I came back and am loving it!!!" testimonials....though pushing X fire is probably more effective when done inside the game.

As AoC's population is now so low, one small guild requiring members to use X fire would have bumped it up the 15% reported.

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The funny thing about this supposed revamp of players is that website trafic to the official site is still in decline and even though AoC is having some blitz campaign and trying to lure customers back by finaly fixing what should have been fixed at launch or much earlier without adding the content needed to sustain most players...there has been no huge increase to players over that month per X fire, so it apears the buzz about this game is dead.

The OP was talking about development times and how slow Funcom moves.   AoC's endgame is pretty under par  and really sad as rerolling to 80 four or so times to play a linear MMO is lame imo, especially when you factor in what was promised at release for raiders, and the OP was talking about the time it takes to get changes out.

Though since your so psyched about this one upcoming wing....have fun hoping that some raid content is added in the expansion as 9+ months seems to be the development cycle for raid content. Hope they are not wondering why all the real raid guilds left...though at least they can defocus end game raiding now.  If  <5% of players have raided after 9 months, then this game needs to be marketed to the super casuals....as raiding is usually the easy and fun part, it's the farming that extends the game and let's guilds progress.

Also, remember that Funcom breaks loads of stuff when they patch so delays in patching makes players endure them longer.

Wrong, The secret world team only consists of 70 people headed by a different game director,  They have stated this in many interviews and the Secret world directors own blog that they haven't pulled from any other team.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_World

The thing about Funcom interviews is they make up stuff all the time, it would be cute if it was a 6-year-old trying to explain quantum physics or multi-variable statistical functions, but these are supposed professionals talking about their own game.  Perhaps a lot of the bugs can be explained away by Funcom's desire to hire souless salespeople rather than programmers.

It's pretty obvious that Age of Conan is very understaffed, hello! the christmas goat event, when a mod said they would like to do more but lacked resources...or the time it takes for FC to do anything compared to Warhammer's 100 man staff!  Or compare pre release development to post release.

It's also obvious that most resources were diverted to the secrete world and the expansion AoC: Hopefully the rest of the game. 

Though FC really has yet to produce a quality MMO, the one thing they did develop is the game engine. The game engine is shared between secrete world and AoC, so it would take an extreemly biosed individual to believe they did not steal people with expertise with the AoC's game engine to work on the secrete world just because some employee said so.

FC has over 300 staff, so that 70 people working on the secrete world figue is suspect as well because going by last quarter's financials that game is pretty much this company's last hope.

Even if they are hiring it doesn't mean the company is doing well because they are still feeding off the funds from going public. They still need employees to develop the new game and expansion.

Funcom says it will take a year to burn through the funds and go into debt, but I'm guessing it will be midsummer.

Funny thing is in the last board meeting two board members wanted to take the company private again......Funcom is worth more atm liquidated than as a video game company due to all it's IPO cash assets that it keeps burning through.

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No one will know for a few days when the quarterly is released.....however keep in mind Funcom makes up numbers all the time....it's probably intentional to mislead the share holders or just because deception is embeded in the life blood of that company. 

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The depresion doesn't effect video game companies, even FC agrees, poor investments into bad games does....go check out the failing companies large list of poor / bad games and correct your error.  Another issue IMO is to many games were released last year so people gave up X game for Y game.

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I wouldn't be suprised if it was a publicity stunt, but AoC probably does need some one to script AI< because I didn't see any when I played.  The UI thing is silly, they should have just released the source.  The graphic artist makes sence as AoC is mostly graphics over gameplay anyway.

Originally posted by Alandora

Basically this is the answer to " Why does it matter how many people play AOC?  I'm having fun and I don't care if I'm the only one playing".

Stuff gets stuck on the test servers longer and stuff doesn't get launched on time as the dev team/ qa team/ test team shrinks.  The only real testing that is being done by the AOC devs is when they push something to the test realms and wait for player feedback.  This type of a QA system isn't very good since it is not being done by professional people purposefully trying to break the game... it is being done by players who for the most part are just playing the game 'normally'.

This is why games that are 'behind' in populations never can catch up to growing games..  Not only are they 'behind', but the fall further behind as the growing games can add more content faster.

 EDIT for OP: Forgot - the official forums were real critical of this game, remember the mass banings and cover ups led by those forum mods for 6 months?  Seems like they became a bit lax and lazy now that the traffic to AoC's official forum is way way way down and despite what Xfire says about a 15% pop increase those forums remain in decline....compare AoC's general forum to a high pop WoW server or WoW class forum to see how little people care about those forums ;p

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@ what was quoted:

It seems pretty silly that a game less than 20% the size of most MMOs takes so long to fix it's own bugs or add stuff.

Though the test server is an improvement as remember at release nothing much was tested? Sieges and raids were not as were the few instances that were worth doing......then they removed most developers from AoC twice, thus limiting the changes and then they got rid of many QA and testers so player testing is an improvement.

The one thing that may jam up this new and innovative idea of player test servers that FC has stolen from every other MMO is they seem to still not be listening to player feedback, which is really a minor point when bored players are the only ones responsible for testing this game.

AoC's test server, at least you don't have to follow the linear path to level 80 for the 5th time! More, New content FTW!

At release we were told to wait 6 months, 6 months later we were told to wait another 6 months...........now we are being told to wait 2-10 years before this game gets optimized????

This game was designed with consoles in mind hence the simple combo system and fewer class abilities....though aside from what the head dev said, it does not look like the 360 version is being produced. Edios was supposed to be doing the Port but is would be suicide to invest in the port that would most likely fail. 

http://www.advfn.com/quote_Eidos_LSE_EID.html

Someone tell them to make a quality Dues Ex 3 please?  Funcom and Edios working together is pretty funny though as they are both pretty much the most  unethical VG companies and both love deceptive business practices.

Pretty sure the 120 gig HD requirement, negative hype, lack of interest in MMOs by console players, among other things will keep more X box 360 players away though.

Ah was going to say: WoW (post 2k) and Guildwar's arenas played competively would be more skill than anything in AoC because it skims out the bad players.

It's not so much about gear as any player with reasonable skill should be able to make it close to the top of either bracket.  I took a poorly geared hunter (broken class) past 2k in all WoW brackets season 1...so it wasn't so much about gear until the very end as most players 95%ish + are so bad the probably have to use the arrow keys to keep you on the screen.

Pretty sure the argument is that Age of Conan relies on Skill (trees) AKA Feats, rather than gear because the stats on gear are pretty meh...though thats a poor design decision IMO as it demotivates players from farming the few end game encounters.

If you are talking about player skill, you are wrong as AoC probably takes less skill than other MMOs.

Skill in video games is about reaction and strategy. 

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REACTION: Thesis -  Age of Conan mitigates any chance of reaction in multiple ways.

AoC was supposed to have a revolutionary combat system, however this combat system rewards guessing, guessing is a taboo or antithesis to reaction.

Examples of poor game design:

Shielding: players can not see other player's shields to react to them - however most combos of a given class end at a specific shield point, or at least the most damaging combo....so players can put 2 or 3 shields to that direction....that is not skill nor strategy as everyone knows or should know this as it has been posted ad nauseam.

Blocking: Functionality removed due to a poor caster Vs. melee stamina mechanic....though sprinting still favors casters, kiting FTW.

Combos:  Though this system was tweeked it still removes reaction from the "Player Skill" equation as from the instant you launch a combo the next two commands are given and there is an artificial delay between inputs.  Basically, go play VF 5 or any combo fighter game and imagine if it took 4+ seconds from the moment you started inputting commands until the time they went off....that would be lag conditions and they would be unbarable for anyone.

Also, the combo system for melees removes the number of decisions used per 10 second intervals.  Generaly, in any game a player will cycle through her best burst damage moves and throw in utility/stun abilities as needed.  Here, rather than choose another ability, we play the simmon says game.

Though, it can be argued that the "Player skill" is performed by landing the combo finisher on the opponent, that is a pretty silly request.  Everyone knows about "Playing To Win". Well if two players are playing to win they will be circle straffing and jousting so that finishers will rarly if ever land.....though once again do to poor game mechanics diffrent melee classes have diffrent effective hit areas....which will make a bigger impact than player skill in the long run, actualy the class balance or lack of...will make a bigger impact than any player skill.  Also, please remember most skilled MMO players left do to a lack of endgame and gear progression.....there may be some skilled player with 4 level 80s who is tuffing it out, but the vast majority of skilled players that I have encountered will stop playing the moment they can't progress any further....plus we all watched the uber guilds depart to strenghten this argument.

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STRATEGY:

As stated before the core game mechanics are pretty flawed in regards to shielding, blocking, the evasions are marginal, and the combo system strategy would be pretty silly as there is no way to predict where your opponent will be when it finishes w/o!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ah yes! Stuns and Instant gibs........If you jump an unaware opponent they can be stunned and instant gibbed due to damage being scalled for PvE not PvP, that is the strategy that works in this game.

Defencive Strategy?  If you are not stuned and instant gibbed.....you can Sprint off and hide, chug health pots, or circle strafe and hide, or stun and instant gib them.

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Group and evaluation:

AoC's PvP system was tacked on and does not give a good indication of how well a player or group performs.  In fact it is easier to progress in the PvP system if one starts at a lower level and then ganks higher up players than starting with a level 80 main. (which shows how stupid this reverse gank system is).

You did not go into much detail and one week, are you out of the marketing ploy known as Tortage?

BTW it;s a well known fact that Funcom employees and a few players are trying to hype up the game.

Seriously, I liked the first 20 levels as well, as did everyone....wait until you play through the game and see how shallow that epic quest is and how little there is to do after the 60s.

I disagree, AoC is dying and will die from game play issues.

I have never seen a MMO survive after losing 100%$ of  the hard core gamer for having a lack of content...really, poor raids, lack of gear, and lack of things to do are driving the hard core MMO players away.

Other signs of a dying game are the board of directers trying to take the company public.................the company has more cash than it's worth............it went from 25 dollars on it's IPO to 2.50 dollars, so if the Board  buys the remaining shares to 51% it can cash out and liquidate AoC.....they spent most of the money on the por game engine anyway.  When the old director of AoC resignes because of game play issues, you know this game is doomed.

Nah; AoC has much less content...remember it's pretty linear and shallow with one empty end game, and no reason to farm or progress as gear upgrades give very little?

WoW....loads of content at release and a decent end game, loads of instances.........2 instances and ony Vs. what AoC has + BWL was well done.

War......22 chapters times 6 (for all races)....of PQs, then plenty of side quests.....end game had 4 instances, constant sieges, and constant BGs...which is more than AoC has after 9 months.

EQ1 had more content...but that game developed rapidly and if you believe AoC will be as well tuned raid wise and content wise, your on something, actually the original EQ (no Xpacs) had more........the main issue w/ AoC is it takes so long to do graphics that it is hard to release new content...I bet the two zones released post release were already mostly finished at release.

EQ2: Way, Way more content at release!

I can't think of another MMO as linear as AoC...and at level 80, they may as well roll the credits because the few people that still play mostly just reroll anyway.

Originally posted by socrates656

- Not enough content

- Boring endgame

- Crappy Instances

- Terrible Crafting System

Yup, how can a game be considered a RPG MMO when it is linear?  80 levels makes it even  worse.........................1st 20: in one zone,  next 10, you get your pick of three zones!.......after that it is 1 zone per 10 levels........how can all other MMOs make content for 6 or so races and multi zones after words and then AoC lumps everyone together then forgets to add a decent end game?

This is the casualest MMO game to come out since the sims, imo.

It is important to remember that the people with bugs and technical issues did not get a chance to enjoy the game play issues:

Also, the assassin thing mentioned earlier was not a bug.......FC decided to keep stealth pretty nerfed because every class in the game can stealth...imo a poor design decision for a supposed PvP game.

Aye, the deceptive advertising was a bit to much...the game  was supposed to have a PvP focus, but even today it's just thrown in..so they can advertise it.

The only real change AoC made to the genera was the devaluation of gear, which seems to lessons MMO player's motivation to do what little content AoC has to offer.........remember any raiding game you ever played? players stoped raiding when they could no longer progress.

Originally posted by openedge1

Example of same amount of time for WoW

Patch 1.1 - Added traits

Patch 1.2 - Fixes only

Patch 1.3 - Diremaul, Outdoor bosses, Meeting stones

Patch 1.4 - PvP Honor system (hmmm...)

Patch 1.5 Battlegrounds and Fixes

Patch 1.6 - Blackwing, Darkmoon Faire

So, I count Diremaul and Blackwing (1 Regular dungeon and 1 raid), PvP honor system (hmmm), Battlegrounds, more quests (Faire, time limited and constrained) and fixes

How is that for perspective!

(EDIT: For complete notes, you can go here....WoW Wiki Google Search. Please note, all patching had tons of stuff in them, but the above are the "main" additions, done as the OP just did for AoC...seems Funcom is coming right along...)

Ya and WoW had technical issues at launch as well, but fewer true bugs. Though WoW had more stuff to do already, such as Ony, MC, UBRS, LBRS, Strath, etc and way more content.

Dunno, just my theory that the lack of content was keeping people away and drove them off to begin with, well buggy raids and sieges didn't help) and hearing over and over how more content was added, I was pretty shocked when I saw that list.

thanks

At release AoC was devoid of content and just seemed empty, even with players all over. Today people are blaming the exodus on technical issues and bugs, but under neath it all was this lack of fun stuff to do in AoC, exhaberated by how linear Age of Conan can be and how content devoid the game was and seems to be now.

So anyway I saw this list of things that were added and;

One mid level dungeon - Amphitheatre
One mid level location - Ymir Pass, with 42 solo quests
13 new quests in E.Mountains
Voice Acting
Whole new crafting system with 100+ new items and 12 new item sets, 120+ receipts
PvP system, yes - with new PvP items for all classes, Outlaw Camps and redeemer quests
New feats for few classes
Improved alchemy system
Improved The Cistern dungeon
New musical themes
PvP system

I still hear the Tradeskill system needs much work, but in all the reviews I read it seems that people are impressed with ALL the new content, but if this is it...I'm not sure what they are talking about......most of my friends left because they were bored hanging out at level 80 with nothing to do aside from under whelming raid encounters or PvP.

Also, don't get me started on the PvP system ; who thought penalties and guards to enforce PvP is better than a player enforced world?

Just want to know whats up, because this game was content devoid and I'm amazed that that is all they could do in 9 months yet people make it out to be epic.
 

I agree............this vague "they improved things" is silly.

Funcom did improve tech issues but they spent to much time on that while the game was released well under half way finished, content wise.  The only three improvements so far have been some mid level instance, a broken PvP system (is it really on Par with Warcraft or Warhammers?) - remember this was supposed to be the PvP alternative to WoW and voice acting.

Well they did add another type of content, which is guards all over to deter PvP.

Though the big issues that drove the masses away have not been fixed., which are game play issues and a lack of content.  It's funny that players are trying to spin what drove people away, as there were loads of players at release that ran the game fine.

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