Originally posted by Dream_Chaser

It's a good video.

It just makes me sad because I remember that the asura have been reduced to giggly, goofy, silly gnomes living in the Exodar.

Just wanted to reply to this. The only thing giggly and sily about the race are the animations. The way they run, hop when they stop. I can see people having a beef with that but I can also see how constraints of movement would make it hard to do otherwise.

However, besides the animations, the race itself is very serious. Check out the lore pages on the wiki, or the books, or hell any Ree Soesbee or Jeff Grubb blog post. They are a very internal, very studios and serious race. Their attitude toward non-asura can be very hard edged and they certainly have a hefty superiority complex going on lol. They are a little silly, especially in how they see other races and other races see them.

Just wanted to clarify that Asura are not WoW gnomes. Besides being smart and tech savy, and small, that's all they share with the typical MMOG gnome. For one, their look can be rather creepy lol.

Originally posted by WellzyC

 

That's a diffucult question to answer seeing that all of us have only "read" about these features, and have not actualy played them.

Speak for yourself. I have played the game, to a point. I was at PAX last year and got to play for about 2 hours in total. Mostly human and charr starting areas and higher lvl Sylvari.

To add to the thread. The worst feature is indeed the long spans (that feel like forever) between any news outside convention season. But that isn't a feature. The actual 'worse feature' is a tough call. I love so many aspects of the game, and there is still so much we don't know. I'd say the worst 'feature' is that you have to zone into the cities. It'd be nice if they were open like other MMOGs. But even this doesn't really bother me in the least.

Great video by the guys and gals at Wartower.de. Lots of hype in there. A few responses were expected. Kotaki saying his favorite aspect is the art. Well no shit Mr. Concept Lead. :p

Glad to hear them mention the Cattlepult. I cant wait to do that DE.

Hmm I don't know if that's something we know yet or not. However, we do know that when NPC's talk to you or to other NPC's, they use chat bubbles. So it seems that it'd be odd if they used chat bubbles for NPCs but not for players. On top of that, Guild Wars has speach bubbles. So it seems to me GW2 would as well.  You may want to post this on the 'questions' sub-forum at GW2 guru, or search that forum to see if it's been asked and perhaps answered.

Good question too, and I agree SWTOR just doesn't hit that sweet spot for community, guilds and RP for me and one big reason is the lack of chat bubbles. It has several downsides. Nobody 'ever' notices when people are talking in /say without direct tells, and because of that the game feels so singleplayer.

Originally posted by Vhaln

 

i regret that i must admit, i never really played gw1. so this question probably sounds about as ignorant as it is, but.. isnt gw1 primarily endgame focused? i wonder if that might have helped its retention, as opposed to being like all these mmos that are all about leveling up, but fall flat at the cap?

maybe gw2 will manage to be both, but i'm always skeptical.

Well the answer to that question is a hard one. I suppose technically you could say it is end-game focused because the vast majority of content is played at cap. However, in truth the levels don't really matter at all. With only 20, you can generally hit 'cap' within a few hours as an experienced player, depending upon the campaign you chose. Like GW2, the game doesn't begin or end at cap, it just continues. It's also why I think there are no raids in GW2, there simply is no need for a retention mechanic like other, subscription fee based MMOGs.

I think thats why a 'lot' of people freak out on the guru forums about lack of raids. They haven't wrapped their heads around the fact that GW2 is NOT a game you are meant to play constantly, as often as possible and as long as possible, like most subscription based MMOGs. For this reason there are no carrots on sticks, there are no time sinks to slow down the gameplay experience in order to drag out the game and thus extend a subscription. It's like any other non-MMOG b2p game, like Dota or Neverwinter Nights. You don't play those games for the carrot. You don't play those games to grind raids. You play them to have fun, leave them when your not and return when you want to play them again or try the new expansion or patch, etc. GW2 isn't your typical MMOG and thus shouldn't be thought of as one. Once people understand that they might understand that raiding would be utterly pointless in such a game.

And I don't know where the whole 'GW has a retention problem' came from because trust me, it doesn't. You can log into the game at any hour of the day and find hundreds of people in various locations in the game. The vast majority of these people are long-term players who have worked hard for the coolest items, the best skills and the hardest to earn titles, etc. But really you cant look at a game designed to be free to play and wonder about it's retention. Since it has no subscription model, retention is a non-issue. I'd be the same as asking if Skyrim has retention problems.

I wouldn't say it has 'no end game', it just doesn't have raiding. GW1 has tuns of post-cap content, but not raiding. In terms of the question, I don't think Retention does matter so much. I've been playing GW for half a decade on and off and I've only ever spent about $60. That includes a re-purchase through steam for convenience when the trilogy and GWEN was on sale (got them for about $20) and four or five purchases from the store, mostly outfits but also missions and bank space. Even with this openness you'd think the number of active players would vary wildly, but there are enough 'big fans' who have stuck with GW and played it consistantly for years.

I think GW2 will be much the same. It might not have the retention of say WoW, but it doesn't need it. As long as enough people buy the title at release (and it looks to be very successful in that respect) it doesn't matter how many people play it at any time. I expect to be the type of player who sticks with the game for years, but if I just come back for expansions, or play a dozen hours a month or less, in the end it's my purchases that matter.

Franklly I think a lot of poeple don't really quite yet understand just how liberating it will be not having to pay $15 a month. You'll never feel that (like with WoW), you are almost forced to keep playing simply because of the money you've invested over the years. Like any other game you might play it for a few weeks at launch, quit or move on to another game and just come back, any time you like.

I think having no subscription fee is also why the MMOGs that have gone free* (reduced accounts, limited slots.. like AoC, LotRO, DCUO) have seen sharp upturns in new accounts. Retention may still be a problem but if you know you can just return to a game, for free, any time you want.. I think folks will find they end up playing the game more often over the long term, then games they are burnt out in but return only because of the thousands of dollars they've spent over half a dozen years in their 'main MMOG'. I have friends who have played WoW for 8 years, with multiple accounts, tuns of extra purchases like pets, character name changes, server changes, mounts.. you name it. It all adds up to several thousand dollars spent and he won't leave simply because of that investment. No matter how bored he gets, he simply will not leave the game. With GW2, he'll never have that feeling again.

Originally posted by smh_alot
Most of us here have played more than 1 MMO in the time we've been MMO gamers. In that time, what starter areas do you have fondest memories of, or which ones did you consider to be the best you've played?

 

Here are mine:

 

Greater Faydark (EQ)

 

 

Pre-Searing Ascalon (Guild Wars)

 

Tortage Island (Age of Conan)

 

So, what are you people's most favorite starter areas in the many years of MMO gaming and leveling you experienced?

My list would be similar to yours. Greater Faydark is of course a classic, and easily the best starting zone in EQ. It felt so big back in the day and had a cool design.

Pre-Searing Ascalon was fun largely because of the heart-breaking story. But GW today, I think Prophecies is probably my least favorite campaign, though I loved the story the first time though.

Tortage Island was a blast. It's to bad the developers focused so heavily on the early experience to the expense of the rest of the game. Thankfully the lead of The Secret World has come out and said it was a mistake they won't repeat.

If I had to chose an apsolute favorite, I'd have to say The Shire from LotRO. They got the shire dead on and I had so much fun exploring it and RP'ing in the zone. My guild doing events there, and drinking at the Green Dragon, doing the festivals, the 'drinking run'. LotRO has some of the best art direction to begin with in the genre. So I think hands down, the Shire. Technically it isn't the 'starting zone' but with LotRO the starting zone is more a short tutorial so I wouldn't count them.

Let me start this little thread by saying I am a long time gamer, and have been playing MMOGs since Everquest and Anarchy Online. I've always been the type of gamer who can play a good game for months and months, including MMOGs. I might take a break, switch to another game for a time, but it was only for a month or two and then I was back and having a blast. With AO that side-game was DAoC and I had a lot of fun with both for a number of years.

But I started to notice something in the last several years, going back half a decade or more now. I can no longer stick with a single MMOG for more than 3 months. No matter what I do, no matter how I pace myself, I always give up on the MMOG within three months. Now I don't really mind this, as I personally feel if I get 3 months out of an MMOG I consider it money well spent. I try not to restrict my entertainment budget (within limits of course) so I never feel I 'need' to stick with an MMOG simply because of the money invested.

Back on topic it was only recently I finally realized I was a dreaded MMOG hopper. As I’ve said, I don’t have this problem outside MMOGs. I greatly enjoy sandbox games and RPGs. I have hundreds of hours over months in games like Just Cause 2, The Elder Scrolls titles, Dragon Age, Minecraft, etc, etc. It’s only MMOGs I have this issue with.

Problem is I see it coming every time. I see a new interesting MMOG on the horizon and think desperately ‘don’t get bored with this one so quickly!’ I am not a power gamer, I do not grind to cap just to sit around bored. I often don’t get close to cap in these MMOGs.

One possible issue is that most western MMOGs to come out in the past eight years are themeparks and WoW clones and I am dreadfully bored with them. The latest example being The Old Republic; a themepark certainly, but different enough from WoW to have sparked my interest. But within weeks, after a beta weekend and the early access I could feel the old ‘I’m growing bored already’ feeling creeping up. I shrug it off but inevitably there just came a day toward the end of the free month that I just didn’t feel like logging in anymore. I made alts (I’m already an altoholic), I played more sparely, but it just didn’t help.

I make this post because I think I’m only one of a growing number of MMOG players like me, but also because there are several MMOGs coming that I am keenly interested in and that are also quite different from the WoW formula that has so thoroughly bored me. From The Secret World to Guild Wars 2, I am dreadful that I’ll grow bored of these apparently wonderful games within weeks of release and be stuck once again waiting for the next game. I am especially fearful of this happening with GW2.

To add to the mystery of why I do this, I am a very patient and laid back player. Buggy releases really don’t bother me unless they are game breaking. I was ‘weaned’ on Anarchy Online beta and release and trust me, it doesn’t get buggier than that. Even as buggy as it was I still had a blast from the beta on and played AO (with short breaks, generally in the summer) for 2 years. So it isn’t like these MMOGs hit with a lot of bugs and it drives me away.

In the end I think perhaps it’s just the WoW clones I’m this way with. Since the problem has existed in the last half decade, which is littered with WoW clones of varying success. Most that I have bought are different ‘enough’ not to feel directly cloned but are still, in essence, virtually identical in design. If that is the case I guess TSW and GW2 will be the test, as each has taken pains to move away from WoW style themeparks.

I made this post to reach out to others like myself. Perhaps some who have discovered exactly what drives their MMOG Hopper status and can help me shed some light on mine. I am a great fan of the MMOG, it is one my favorite genres, second only to RPGs and I try to beta-test as many as I can in hopes of truly helping them make the game the best it can be. But as much as I love the genre, if I keep going like this I may have to sadly eschew MMOGs or continually be disappointed and bored within months of a games release.

Help me MMORPG.come forum goers, you are my only hope.

Cattlepult, I'm looking forward to that one lol.

I have a feeling that we are going to be seeing a lot of WvW coming up soon. It's one of the last major game features we know hardly anything about. The game is coming out this year almost certainly since it is 'essentially feature complete'. We have a few conventions in the coming months, like PAX East in April, so I fully expect to see WvW shown off for the first time there. :)

I for one am happy the game has no factions to seperate the player base with their own classes and abilities. It always leads to a forum full of bitching as people consider one side or the other completely unbalanced. It's already started in SWTOR and that game is weeks old!

Server vs. Server vs. Server PvP on the other hand, is brilliant!

Originally posted by Serelisk

Originally posted by melton80

 Let them release it, if it is anything like GW1 it is crap anyway.

Luckily for you, and the rest of the people who don't bother looking up anything about the game, in terms of game mechanics, Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2 are almost entirely different. They're not even in the same genre.

The only thing that remains the same is general design philosophy and the lore.

Saying that 'if you didn't like GW1 then you'll like GW2 because it's nothing like it' is inaccurate. Instead you should say they should check it out even if they didn't like GW1 because it isn't the same game. It shares many similarities but so do EQ1 and EQ2, but they are far from the same game.

GW and GW22 share a lot actually. The locals, the lore, the story, the races, many of the same classes, many similar mechanics, a game built around freedom of choice, a game that doesn't try it's best to rip money out of your hands by forcing you into time sinks and money sinks, etc. GW2 has a legacy to follow. If people didn't like Guild Wars they should check out GW2 becaue it's not the same game. Those who did like Guild Wars should also check out GW2, because it's like the next big evolutionary leap just as GW was in many ways.

How many times must this be said?

Those of us hyped for GW2 aren't hyped for a list of awesome features and screenshots and videos of guys saying buzzwards like 'magical'. But rather we are hyped because Arenanet releases videos, demonstrations of these features. They put them into demo's that thousands have played at two dozen conventions in the last 3 years.

Think back to like WAR and how hyped that was. Not what hyped people? Did they let you play the game at conventions? No they showed off demonstrations. If it wasn't a convention you saw once or twice a month Paul Barnett come out and spout a bunch of hyped up bullshit about how amazing his game was. He would release cool videos with presentations demonstrating what 'magical feature A would be like'. Then the game came out and we found out that A: half the supposed features werent in the game and B: the half that were SUCKED BALLS!

Now look ahead to Arenanet and Guild Wars 2. They only announced a feature when it is ready to be presented and played. Their videos of these features aren't cool powerpoint presentations with a dev spouting buzzwords, they were long videos showing off new areas, showing off in DETAIL these new mechanics, areas or features. Then they come to every new convention and let anyone attendion spend 3/4 of an hour just playing these new features or areas. Playing the new class, reporting on it's abilities and skills.

It's why there is a viable character builder avaiable with detailed information on classes, abilities, perks, you name it and why on this very forum there is a thread detailing everything we know (with solid FACT) about this game and it's 10k + words long.

This isn't hopeless hype based upon a feature list, high end screenshots and powerpoint presentations by the developers. It's hype based on FACT and what we know and what has been demonstrated and what many of us have PLAYED already. THAT is why this game is so very hyped.

This thread needs to be stickied, and stickied ASAP. Fantastic compilation containing the vast wealth of information we have on the game it's characters, story lines, etc. If you've got the time and want to know what all the hype is about, it is a must read.

Anet knows that timesinks are not fun. That's the beauty of their games, there hardly ever are any. Because these gams are specifically designed without a monthly fee in mind, there are no reasons to generate time sinks and 'carrots on a stick' because time does not equal money in their games. You can see this in Guild Wars 1 as well. Any 'town' you've discovered you can port there, when ever you like.

I recommend this video for understanding why $15 a month is an archaic concept and in the big MMOGs your paying for time sinks and a wif of content every six months.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns-IIn-DG-c

Originally posted by Shroom_Mage

 

---

Originally posted by Enosh
til 80
level up doing whatever you do until 80, learn class/skills etc

 

at 80
queue for pvp arena
rage for 1-3 hours at random team mates or have fun with friends/guildmates, depending on who is online
log out
so the same thing I did in GW1 for 2 years ^_^

maybe run a dungeon if they actually turn out decent

---

 

You don't need to be 80 to do PvP, there is no queue, and your teammates aren't exactly random. No aspect of this game will be like GW1.

I wouldn't say that. Your right with no queues, no need to be 80, but there will still be heaps of Meta going on throughout the game as people find new builds and cool class and cross-class combos to improve their game.

For me my typical day I'll probably get online see what my guild is up to (while at work muahaha), get home, hop on. If my main guild is doing something I'll join them, maybe do a hard mode dungeon (or attempt to do so, they are going to be quite challenging. if not I'll do some tasks to build up my Karma, or run a new story mode dungeon with a pug,  get involved in a few fun DEs perhaps. All that time I'll be leveling up, but since that really isn't the primary focus of the game I probably will only notice when I ding or get my new abilities. If I'm 80 I'll perhaps work toward unlocking an Elite with the 'special events or missions' that unlock them. Or perhaps I'll be working toward getting the Trait I want next. Perhaps I'll just do a few minigames for an hour or two if that's all I have. Or work toward getting my achievements, or helping the guild get theirs.

I may also warp to my home city for some RP,  and do some crafting and experimenting and play the market. With experimentation allowing the crafter to discover schematics, I do hope to find my own niche in the market, like I did in SWG. I'm a crafter so I'm sure I'll spend tuns of time experimenting and hopefully discover some cool schematics. I'm also hoping that, since the game isn't gear focused, crafters might be the predominant source of gear, consumables, RP costumes, outfits (GW1 had thousands of outfits), etc.

if my main guild isn't on or I'm not in the mood to craft or PvE I'll switch to my PvP guild, perhaps join my favorite 'server' if it's active. Or perhaps I'll head to he mists, help my second guild capture a keep, put down a PvP focused DE. Perhaps there will be a Darkness Falls style dungeon there I can particpate in. If not I'll enter the mysts and fight amongst a hundred other people to push those other f'ing srevers, or attend a secret meeting to form an alliance with a server to push back the third, etc.

The beautiful thing about this game is I can do any of these, at any level. People moan that 'there is no end game, no raiding', but the ENTIRE GAME is end game! Since levels don't matter really because you'll be moving up and down them frequently as you go to participate in a cool DE you missed at lower level, or your guild forms up to try and unlock a dragon fight or do a story mode dungeon, or you join a hot-joinable PvP match, or do some WvWvW, every single aspect of the game can be participated in, be challenging and fun no matter your level.

The entire game is end game. And that my friends is bloody awesome.

Edit: Spelling & Grammar

The World of Darkness MMOG is somewhat on the backburner, but a fairly recent update by one of the leads said they still have a solid group of a few dozen developers working on the game. Kinda pisses me off that CCP murged with White Wolf and then has been screwing over the MMOG at every turn. I understand their financial issues but still. I mean after all the mass market appeal of a Vampire: the Masquerade (using Requiem rules) game is far beyond that of Dust 514.

As to the list of features I meantioned, those are things that have slowly been revealed at the last few Grand Masquerade events. You can find that and more on the wiki. :)

To add to the GW2 discussion. As I said the game isn't my 'last hope'. There are some other MMOGs ahead that are trying to change things, and I'm looking forward to them as well. What I am over is the WoW era themepark MMOG that includes just about every MMOG released in the last 7 years, including SWTOR, which has it's own merits but to me, small lasting appeal.

So GW2 is my greatest hope, I certanily haven't been this involved in pre-release forums and as hyped and informed about an MMOG since Anarchy Online (not my first but my all time fav MMOG) and Star Wars Galaxies after that. We've heard that those few selected for beta are giving rather rave reviews. That gives me some hope. :)

I agree with Loke. The base mechanics of MMOGs have barely changed in 13 years.

There's a reason GW2 gets every 'best of show' award at every game convention they attend, and 'most anticipated' from every MMOG website over the past few years. For years everyone has been waiting for the one MMOG that will bring the genre forward and amongst a slurry of WoW clones that never seem to end, Guild Wars 2 is a beacon of light in a maelstrom of sameness.

I fully believe that GW2 will change the face of MMOGs to the extent that WoW did and EQ did before that. That, in the next several years, we'll stop seeing WoW clones and start seeing GW2 clones. I can all but guarantee that Titan (which is heavily rumored to be casual based), will have dynamic content.

In the end Guild Wars 2 is the only themepark MMOG on the near future that is trying to radically evolve the MMOG genre and from everything we've seen, Anet has the budget, the raw talent and the love and dedication to their IP to pull it off. When I say talent, I mean best in the industry talent. Just take a look at their award winning concept art!

That doesn't mean I personally won't try other MMOGs. TSW is from my favorite MMOG developer. Not only is Funcom under a new head but the lead on TSW is also the guy behind two of the best adventure games ever made; The Longest Journey and Dreamfall.

Archage may turn into something interesting but right now all I see is an over hyped version of the same uber generic grindfest that is the predominant asian MMOGs released in the past decade.

Likewise Planetside 2 is looking very promising and if greedy SOE doesn't charge a monthly fee (or if it's microtransactions based, it isn't pay to win), it'll be on my list of must buy games as fast as you can say 'Vanu Sovereignty FTW!'.

And of course we have the World of Darkness MMOG on the horizon, which primises to be one world, totally open, where the players run everything. You can be a normal human and other players can turn you, and the players themselves will decide the city leaders, who the Prince will be. Fighting between the Camarilla and Sabbat. It will be an ingrossing and heavily RP'd game the likes of which haven't been seen since UO!

So I think the MMOG genre is on an upswing. There are a number of games to look forward to and our young genre (and greedy publishers) are quickly realizing that an MMOG you don't put a lot of money behind, and the heart and soul of the developers behind, is just a losing prospect. So many companies have dived into the genre and produced utter failures that I really think that MMOGs will become better for it.

I didn't realize this from the few beta weekends I was in but the worlds are relatively small, linear and easy to get around in the early planets for a reason. The base movement speed is rather slow, and even with things like smugglers sprint if can feel like a crawl. But once you hit 25 or so and get a speeder the planets really start to open up.

And frankly if you cant afford a speeder by Tatooine, it's your own fault.