Originally posted by Freezzo

The last thing is people talking about permadeath being good. Whenever I see that in the list of features of a MMO, with the permadeath being enforced, I won't even bother with it anymore. Death can hurt, but a simple mistake and what not doesn't mean I lose my whole character for me. Playing permadeath means I probably have to put in tons of extra time because yes, I will die. Character progression is important to me and in most games with permadeath there's also forced open world pvp and tough pve. No thanks.

Permadeath in any current form, sucks.  But if used well, it would enforce better decisions and better character development.  Bashing it and saying it sucks becuase it has sucked is stupid and one of the highlights of why humans tend to be so shallow, because instead of thinking something through, they use a past situation instead to cover their thinking for them.

Personally, I am excited to see this game fail.  Does that sound odd to hear?  It makes sense, because since this game will use tired conventions instead of innovation, and because it has the ES name attached, the failure of said game will definitely allow for more developers to see that the MMO community is growing in the number of people who hate what is happening to games, and that they are to be taken seriously.

Just so everyone knows, Palu is a well-known troll on MMORPG, just ignore him inciting, report him if needed, and move on.

Originally posted by MyBoot

Originally posted by DicksOnFire

Bethesda's not making the game though, it's being deveolped by Zenimax Online Studios. 

Zenimax owns Bethesda so I dont really see the issue there ?

The issue is that this game will have the Elder Scrolls name, but not gameplay.

Believe it or not, I read al 12 pages of this thread, and I have to say, sheer hilarious.

But seriously, OP, why is you can not tell us hard facts about this game, like screenshots?  You said it is close to being released, yet no screens?

I read your first sentence.  Edit this post, and you might get better replies.

Not sure if trolling or serious.

You're welcome, it serves my purpose.  If people have time that is free, what is going to draw them to watching some dude play a video game?

Originally posted by GTwander

Originally posted by pyrofreak

This is probably going to get me into trouble again, but  (DISCLAIMER: IN MY OPINION) you're completely wrong. Her gender has EVERYTHING do to with it.

Yep, let's look at the facts people...

Market for gorgeous gamer hunks? No.

Market for hot gamer chicks? Absolutely.

Male reviewers have to rely solely on wit and their sense of humor, if they are boring it just doesn't fly. Chicks get by on their looks alone, just like in the real world, and how it's always been - and always will be. Double standard much? Absolutely.

Exactly, I have seen many game reviewers be male and they are completely engrossing to watch, due to humor or some aspect of intelligence that they throw off.  Are any of them very attractive?  No.  They are decent looking some of the time, but that is not a requirement.

Pokket, though...I have seen her video reviews, which, incidentally, are mostly video reviews, and hey, what do you know?  She is rather boring to listen to.  Her last video had a large segment on this sex game coming out too...hmm.  She made sure she could be seen the whole video too, despite the other people that were being highlighted with comments.

Look at Teala on here, she can have interesting things to post, and you will note, most of her stuff is text.  But even then, she has admitted to being a stripper in the past, and you know that sort of confession on a site like this gains instant popularity, whether she wanted it or not.

Pokket is sex-appeal, and this is using a double-standard.  As for this being what it has to be?  No, girls can review games and be just as fresh and intelligent and funny as what we see from other guys.  Girls just need to not be lazy, fall back on sex appeal, and step up to the plate.

At least Pokket is happy doing what she does, though.

Anyone here watched Game of Thrones or read Song of Ice and Fire?  This is what PVP should emulate.  There should be reasons for people warring, not just to control territories, but for the myriad number of reasons one would find in the intrigue of a world.  Thing is, this is not likely to happen anytime soon.

Originally posted by Uhwop

I don't see how anyone who says they're an ES fan could read about his game and be excited for it.

I also don't see how anyone who doesn't play MMO's, but is a fan of the ES games would read about this game and want to play it.

If it's lacking all of the things that make the ES games great, why would ES fans be excited for it.  To say that because it's an MMO it has to play a certain way is a bunch of BS.  There is no unwritten rule tha says an MMO is supposed to be a linear, single player story driven, race/ faction locked, class based mmo with no real sandbox elements in it, and that's what they're making with this game.

 

I'd really like to hear the impression of the author of the first article about TESO that was written here, when the game was announced.  I got the very distinct impression that that individual very much expect an ES mmo that played much like the single player games. 

 

Now let me ask this.  How would people feel if Beth announced that they were making ES vi, but they wanted to move it into a more mainstream market so they're going to make the game play more like Dragon Age.  Instead of forging your own adventure you'll select a class with preset skills.  Instead of focusing on world development they're going to focus on Story narative.  They'll still let you explore the world, but due the class designs you may not be able to do certain content unless you level up first.  To make the game appeal to a wider audience, they're going to remove much of the fluff stuff that they think maybe people wouldn't care so much about, and instead put most of the emphasis on fighting monsters and playing through the story.  No more having a house, no more crafting, no more killing NPC's, and reducing the visuals so that they run on more machines, as well as removing most of the world interaction. 

How many ES fans would except that from Bethesda? 

 

Just because it's being made by ZeniOnlne, and just because it's an MMO, doesn't mean it's not an ES game.  When you remove all the elements that make ES, ES; including the lore that one of the devs admitted isn't even considered to be canon by the guys at Bethesda, the only thin you're left with is a game with the ES in the title and names on a map that you might be familliar with.

In the end, DAoC had far fewer followers then even SWG, people playing WoW are going to continue playing WoW, and ES fans who don't play MMO's aren't going to play a game that has next to nothing in common with the singleplayer games, they're going to wait until the ESvi releases and play it; not this.

Not even the media should be cutting them slack.  Once an ES mmo releases that is nothing but a DAoC/ ToR/ WoW ripoff, those people that have always wanted to play a real ES MMO will not get that option.  They won't make the game a second time, and we'll still be stuck with underfunded, indie developed MMO that never reach their real potential, but have more in common with ES then this game will.  That's not fair to the FANS of the game.  

 

I'm very dissapointed with the tone of this article.  3 faction pvp does not an ES mmo make.  ES is synonymous with a specific type of gameplay, and MMO's are still RPG.  There is absolutely no reason that an ES mmo could not be the sandbox mmo that EVERYONE EXPECTED when they announced they were making the game. 

This is one of the more cohesive arguments against ESO and sums up my feelings as well!

Originally posted by Thane

optional perma death, that's what world of darkness will do, no?

How are they doing it?

Originally posted by RefMinor
A game needs to be built around permadeath from the ground up, not a bolt on option. Those stating "just delete your character when you die" are as ever laughably beneath contempt and need to sit still for more than 2 minutes and actually consider their own shallow thoughts.

And this is the kind of discussion I have wanted to hear.  Why should permadeath exist in a game?  If you have games like WoW or Rift or Guild Wars 2, of course permadeath has no meaning.  You need a game where your social self matters, and that means your death would have consequence to the world, not just yourself.

Originally posted by Don-Quixote

Define more.

Also : in Battlefield Heroes you still connect with your character by a) getting him skills , and b) getting him gear.

Nah, in Battlefield Heroes I connected with my character in spite of a) and b), not because of it.

Playing DayZ I have felt more connected to my character than I have to any avatar I created in any MMO for the last 6 years. What I find this mod does is, because we are out in the wild alone (in the way he possibly represents me in the gameworld) I am more attached to my character.

I do not need to get some shiny armour for my character in order to feel connected to it.

I do not need to progress some skill-tree.

I do not need to go into instances in order to progress anything.

I do not need to get to a place late in the game where danger rears its head, because the whole concept of the game is to survive.

MMOs use these things sure, but not in order to make you feel connected to your character, but to represent a story within the game's limits, which is a different thing.

Why would anyone want to introduce MMO concepts into it?

I am dreading that with the boost in sales ARMA 2 is getting, a big publisher will buy the studio and ruin the experience. They will do exactly what you guys are asking:

(At the grey suits HQ):

- So lads, here we are with this game and the mod, what should we do?

- Let's get rid of the permadeath, we will broader the game's appeal.

- Let's include some instances filled with zombies and a couple of end-game raids against Rob Zombie.

- Hey, how about an auction house where players can sell the items they found in the island?

- Classes, we should put in some classes and some skill trees in there.

- Why there be no collectable companions in teh game, let's include them too!

- We could name the first expansion "Rise of the Elf zombies"!

 

Hilarious post!

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by lifesbrink

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

Originally posted by lifesbrink

It is amusing that mainly the morons have commented on this thread.  Permadeath as a delete key?  That is stupid.  It is not a game rule, therefore, it makes no sense.  But coming from the mouths of people who have an IQ less than 100, this is not exactly surprising.

May I ask what the difference is in the game hitting the delete key for you, and you manning-up and having the balls to do it yourself?

Easy.  In game with actual permadeath, if I kill someone else and they permanently die, I don't see them come back.  In a game without permadeath, their character comes back to life in about 2 minutes or less.

Hmm .. did you READ what he wrote?

If someone "manning-up and having the balls to do it (hit the delete key) yourself", you will NOT see the character comes back to life in about 2 minute or less. So what is the difference?

Because that puts the choice on the player, and if I kill someone I don't want to rely on the player actually deleting his character, I just want the character dead forever.  It is "satisfaction".

Originally posted by Amaranthar

Originally posted by lifesbrink

Originally posted by Larsa

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ
In todays themeparks, it seems that the actions that we can partake in are dev driven. The quests, the dungeons, story, pvp, etc. Why are they dev driven IMO? A quest tells you to do 3 tasks, kill robbers, fecth water, and talk to the npc. However, all these events are scripted and pre-determined. ...

You're correct, they're dev-driven, for a reason: it's because many people buying and playing these games prefer it that way. Many people don't see these games as hobby anymore, they see it as some quick entertainment fix, and for those players the themepark formula is providing the quick entertainment fix.

Yeah, pretty much this.  Gamers today have changed the market.  Most of them are boring people, and hence, the market is catering to them.

I would say the entire community just needs patience for now.

I see it from the other side of things. It's not that gamers have changed the market, but that the games have. I've been around since before UO was released and watched as people who want more, like myself and many others, simply leave. It's a "reap what you sow" thing. What we have left are all the satisfied gamers who like it this way, while the others have largely bowed out.

And as newer gamers mature, many turning into players like we who want more, they are starting to bow out too. WoW brought in a massive influx in a very short time frame, so there's this huge "bubble" that's popped. We're watching the collapse that follows.

I can see the bubble argument, now that you put it into perspective.  The only question is, what happens next?

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by lifesbrink

For all the people who are against this idea, it amazes me that you can not see the obvious fix that would keep people from abusing other people's names.  Simply have an account tag unique to each account in the character's profile.  Boom!  Done.  Everyone can have the same name, but when you click their profile, you know whose account it is.

Problem solved.

You mean like Cryptic has been doing since 2004? They started this in CoH and it's continued through to STO. The main difference is when someone speaks in chat in those games you clearly see their account name as well as the character name. This is the smart way to do it as it makes impersonating someone elses character very easy to spot as soon as they speak or emote. The way Blizzard is doing it will make impersonating someone else a breeze and I'm sure the scammers of the MMO world are rejoicing at their stupidity. I've seen people get scammed out of gear/gold many times in MMOs where someone was impersonating someone they knew and trusted with a name like "Nim1oy" instead of "Nimloy" (In most MMO's chat typeface "1" and "l" look almost identical). This will make that little scam even easier to pull off. This is a very stupid way of giving people naming freedom. I don't give Cryptic credit for much but their method is far superior.

Bren

On the note of scamming, those people who get scammed usually deserve it.  I got scammed once back when I first played EQ, and since then, I learned better.

At any rate, the idea of being able to use the name you want makes perfect sense, and it definitely lets you know who is original by nature or not.

...Do you speak English natively?

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

Originally posted by lifesbrink

It is amusing that mainly the morons have commented on this thread.  Permadeath as a delete key?  That is stupid.  It is not a game rule, therefore, it makes no sense.  But coming from the mouths of people who have an IQ less than 100, this is not exactly surprising.

May I ask what the difference is in the game hitting the delete key for you, and you manning-up and having the balls to do it yourself?

Easy.  In game with actual permadeath, if I kill someone else and they permanently die, I don't see them come back.  In a game without permadeath, their character comes back to life in about 2 minutes or less.

I could not pick a personal best 5 myself.  There are too many good ones out there.