All Posts by Josher

I love the unknown as much as the next guy, but removing the minimap or in-game map for EVERYONE isn't the right direction.   If you don't want to use it, you never have to.  Besides, in WOW for example, you had to actually open the map up.  Everything was grey until you discovered it on your own, which was quite cool.  I do feel sorry for those that used map sites before even bothering to explore on their own. 

Since a map can be dowloaded in seconds, removing the minimap serves no purpose besides making the process of getting a map tedious.

Whats even better, turn the minimap OFF, so you can be as surprised as you want.  Then everyone is happy. 

Besides, there's no excitement in getting lost.  I've been lost in many games and the days of wondering around aimlessly got old over 10 years ago when I left college and realized I have a life and no time to get lost anymore.  I want to have fun and getting lost isn't fun.  Its the same reason I have a GPS in my car when I drive out of state.  Its a waste of time, not an adveneture.

Because those that want to fight online in a WWII setting are playing COD or the BF games.  You really can't get much better than that.  A persistent world to fight in isn't neccesary for the majority. 

Its the beauty of WOW.  It has as much group content as any MMO out there plus more solo content than every MMO combined and you're not FORCED in any way to do either one.  If you want advance simply through questing, you can.  If you want to only do dungeons, you can.  If you want to avoid quests all together and just randomly kill mobs, you can.   You want to challenge yourself, you can.  You want to take it easy and play casually when you want and how you want, you can.    You want to PvP anytime you want, you can.  You want to avoid PvP all together, you can.   None of these modes of play are tedious, advancement isn't slow and they all don't exist in any other single MMO.  Theres a reason WOW is so highly regarded.

The only positive thing static camps did during the time of EQ/DAOC was force people to make friends as long as you didn't have much of a life outsied the game and could commit long periods of time with little to no interuption.  Most people now a days don't consider that fun anymore.

Originally posted by CDCosta

 

 

You know nothing about MMOs i see...

Just because it apeals to the masses doesnt make it the best game, nor does it that its played the most.

WoW is the Noob MMO and is comparable to McDonalds in the Resturant industry...

Yes it has a lot of customers, but is it the best food?

Only noobs or non-educated youngins compare WOW to the resturant industry.  No one admits Mcdonalds food is the BEST, so your understanding of a real analogy is extremely lacking.  However, most critics and obviously the majority of gamers out there agree WOW is actually the best MMO on the market or at least as good or better than everything else out there. 

So by calling WOW a Noob MMO, you just instantly proved to everyone you're about as immature  as the people you're bashing.

Every F2P game isn't free.  You want to advance...pay us for items, land, ect.  Sorry no thanks.

I'll pay whatever I feel is "worth it".  DAOC was worth the 6 months.  WOW was worth the couple of years.  Other MMOs I played were worth it too.  GW for me wasn't worth a monthly fee because it didn't offer me anything I couldn't get from any FPS out there and I don't pay a monthly fee for that.  GW's pay plan was not rocket science.  No one in their right mind would've paid a monthly fee for it and ArenaNet knew this.  Their game simply isn't worth it, because they don't need to mantain servers like a full featured MMO and don't have anywhere near the content either.   Their game is set up no different than any FPS out there, except with a lobby you can run around in.  I did that in Phantasy Star Online on my Dreamcast with no monthly fee. 

Originally posted by DaJoKeR

Most People are saying that AoC is going to be under WoW .PoP in the 1st Year. I would agree with all them people who said so.But I feel that in the next 2year Aoc Is going to be the top MMorpg. Many people have forgot that WoW took 2years To really take shape.

WoW Had So many Bugs and the servers went down 3times a week for 6hours or longer. When WoW came Out the Pop Was Around 300k-500k Now thats pretty good for a Mmorpg of its 1st year.WoW has now Over Mill Players. but the down Side to WoW is That the game is losing Players each day. and most of them are not returning.

AoC Has gotta over 1`Mill Players asking for beta keys And The 1st few day's Funcom Release the date for open beta it was sold out in  few Days(50,000 Players) .Now where i Live The Game Is sold out even to pre-order from stores i had to go online to get the game.I would say that in the 1st year there is going to be over 400k-700k players by the end of this year. Only becuase the game is High End Game (New Pc) i think that would be the down fall to AOC . But What People are saying and beta and even myself have said funcom on release it's going to fix the Lag and crash on the load screens.So Upgrade or even A new Pc Should wait until release.

I Have a 3year old Vista Pc. it runs Ok with low settings, few lag spikes and 3crash .But I Will be buying a new Comp very Soon anyways for other games in the near time.

But All we need to do is wait. I played the Beta and it was great. if the game sucks at release (I give a Game 6months to fix most of the bugs) then i will be the 1st One To say this game is Going To flop.

But please Players Don't take my word or others. please play for yourself and see if you like it.There is going to be Buggs. But Dont forget WoW Had Alot Of bugs And i mean Alot of Bugs

Oh Don't forget The Great Game War IS coming Out Most people Are going to be switching over to that if there comps can't play Aoc Or if they get sick of WoW.

 

See You Soon.

 

Smoke more weed d00d.  You're info is wrong.  DId you not get the newest subscriptions memo?  Losing people?  If you think WOW had bugs, you never played UO, EQ, DOAC, AO, well...every game before WOW at their releases.  WOW had some bugs on specific servers with problems and it wasn't ALL servers.  It was just a few of them.  The minority.   300k+ was "pretty good for its 1st year?  It had 1 million subscribers in the US alone in 10 months, 4 Mil world wide in less than a year.   But you are DajokeR and you're smoking the GangA if you think you have any clue=)

Originally posted by Blackfoot-3

I see where your coming from, but you really haven't thought about it enough.

Think about this, when were all the good games released? In the beginning. Ok. When have most of the crap games been released? After WoW.

I don't care if there is one game on the market (and there always will be at least 1 game) as long as it's a good game. The Genre will keep going forward. Ever since WoW hit the scene the genre has actually been moving BACKWARDS as far as content and gameplay are concerned. Everyone wants to make the next WoW, but what they don't realize is that there may NEVER be another WoW and if there is it will only be after the 10mil subscribers get bored with the game, years and years from now.

Everyone now is trying to compete with WoW, a very simplistic game that will draw in the most people. Nobody cares about gameplay now, they only care about subscribers. They use an X + Y / Z formula to get the subsribers that the mathematicians at Blizzard created.

You've got it backwards...content and gameplay has increased dramatically since UO.  Considering EQ, UO and AC had basically zero content, had lousy control, UIs and had gameplay designed to stretch out every play session and slow down advancement to a crawl...the genre has moved forward quite a bit.  Its the old vets who can't let it go already and realize just how badly designed the original MMOs were.

People are allowed to be picky now, because we have options.  Back with the original 3, there were few options.  Which buggy unfinished game did you want to play back then, because they all had problems that current gamers won't tolerate now. 

If  Dark & Light or Vangaurd were released in 99, they would be successes.  Now they're deemed failures.  Wonder why?

WOW is not cheaper to play than other MMOs and not a single critic says its of any less quality either.  Actually its considered to be of a much higher quality play experience, better reveiwed than other MMOs and more expensive to play. 

Put the stupid fast food references to rest.   It only makes you sound ignorant or childlike.  Take your pick.

The numbers are important because of all the nitwits who keep claiming "WOW is going to DIE next week" and "EVERYONE they know stopped playing."

Originally posted by Netuddki

 

Originally posted by Josher

A serious company doesn't need money from its players.  They already have the investors and capital built up before development begins.  If they don't they are in fact not serious at all.  If you want to invest in the company, thats different.  DONATING?  Cmon.

 

 

 

What if the company is a new one, which was funded by industry members (read: coders and artists), who spent all their money to get there, where they are today and because of many crappy asia grinders and WoW (and disasters like Vanguard), nobody wants to invest into a revolutionary game?

Do you think, Darkfall would need 6+ years, if investors would run in the door for such a game? The problem is, developers are not everywhere so "rich", like in greece that they can fully finance the project on their own 6 years.

Because maybe most revolutionary games are so revolutionary they SUCK!!  See Dark&Light or Darkfall.  The reason investors aren't banging on the door of whoever is developing Darkfall is because they can't show a game that looks promising.   No one invests in something unless they can be garuanteed some return for the most part or see something truly remarkable with promise.  Obviously after 6 yrs, Darkfall is not remarkable in any sense of the word, which is all Darkfall really is...a bunch of words on a page and a couple of machinima movies that look outdated.  It doesn't take all that much effort to describe what every armchair developer has been writing on forums for years.

A serious company doesn't need money from its players.  They already have the investors and capital built up before development begins.  If they don't they are in fact not serious at all.  If you want to invest in the company, thats different.  DONATING?  Cmon.

I think Darkfall needs some more money don't they?

Originally posted by Apocamentus

deviliscious, agreeing with all you're saying.  Nothing could beat the days on runescape days when I just logged on and though hmm what should I do today, oh I know I'll train my range.  Oh wait I need to make some arrows for that.  And then I noticed a quest I can do which allows you two make arrows which are a bit stronger.  Then I try and complete the quest and possibly level up to meet the requirements it might need.  Then I mine all the ores I need and smelt them.  Then I cut trees and fletch the logs into arrow shafts.  I then go into a city and try and buy some feathers off some lower levels for a bargin deal.  Then I make all the arrows and train up my range for a bit.  This would then allow me to kill a boss I always wanted to beat or something.

Probably boring to read all that but hopefully gives you the idea of the sheer amount of things that you could always do.  And it was always down to the players choice.  Yes the leveling took a while but it was increadibly satisfying and you could just chat to friends while you did it.

On top of this there was also fun activities and mini games to do with friends to break up the time.

Nothing in wow compares to these possibilities

I hope you don't beleive most people would find gathering all the materials just to go on a simple play session FUN.  They just want to go play, you know, a videgame.  People would rather buy the arrows from a vendor, then go kill some mosters.  All the tedium building up to just going out on a simple hunt is what most people DO NOT WANT TO DO anymore.  They just want to hunt and have fun.  Hard to beleive I know;)

By the way, I could mine ore and smelt them into bars, gather herbs, feathers, skins & other materials while fighting with other players, to go make a cool bow in WOW if a wanted...all the while, I'm chatting with friends, buying and selling items on the AH.  The difference is, doing all those things in WOW is a whole lot more fun for people than in older MMOs.  Yes, hard to beleive.

Your rosey goggles are quite thick sir=)  Gotta love how people remember their first time so fondly and beleive the gameplay was actually good.  Doom seemed great back in 93' or so, but it sure sucks now.

Originally posted by deviliscious

 

Originally posted by Josher

 

 

Arenas, BGs, RP, collect pets, craft, Reputation rewards, daily quests, Heroic dungeons, buy & sell on the AH.  You do not have to RAID , EVER;)

Levels have to cap.  You have to max out.  Eventually content runs dry and reptition sets in.  This is EVERY MMO now and in the future.  No MMO will have endless fresh content, until players can make something thats actually entertaining.  if doing something repetitious seems like a grind, then you might as well give it up and stop playing MMOs. 

Small minded thinking.

 

Why must they run dry? You fail to the potential for mmorpgs...

A game just like an entertainment district in a city needs  to have many available activites available for differnt people , moods and abilities.

1.  making a game that every item in game can be player made without the use of npcs and made highly customizable  and tradable would make crafting not feel  asrepetitous since you would be able to produce so much more.(with the exception of reward items for great accomplishments).

2. on one character have the ability to do everything the game has to offer .. basically take away the limits of classes. Allow one character to train anything and everything as little or as much as they like.  in fighting you would never have to do the same thing twice .. making it seem as though your options are limitless. and having many options for character appearance customizations. So basically your player could look like anything and do anything .. all on one character without the need to create several characters to accomplish this.

3.have many zones for doing differnt things, like one area you can build ships and war them, one area you can build contraptions and battle them, fortress wars where you can build the castle build the cannons catapults and war them against another team doing the same thing.

4. great rewards for levels... when you max you would gain special abilities,  and rewards to make you feel like your efforts were worth the work it took to get there. for the player with the highest stats in each skill will have a statue in their honor with their name on it in the  specified town of their trade.

5. in game court to deal with minor rule breakers where you have a judge and jury of peers that determine punishment of the offenders... you can sentence them to being tied to trees and other players can throw stuff at them.

6.be paid for fighting other players instead of penalties.. make every thing on game profitable so people never have to stop having fun to go do chores.. they can make $ doing everything so they are always having fun and the best fighter in game gets a statue in the arenas.

these are just some small examples of the potential that has not even had the surface of it scratched yet. If you give players so many different activities to do in one game on the same server with other players .. it will make the game appear as though the possiblities are endless even if the game itself is  not producing fresh content all the time.  in stead of making tons of dungeons make many differnt things to do. There is no need for devs to constantly repeat the same things over and over in a game, when in the same amount of space they can produce many different things to do.

 

 

Why must content run dry?  Because this isn't fantasy land=)  Oh, to be such the naive dreamer with no concept of game balance, budget or player pychology;)

I hear there's this fantastic game Darkfall coming out...6 or 7 years ago.

Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by Josher

 

I'm not sure which game FORCES you to quest, but you never had to do a single quest in WOW.  Not a one. 

 

no .. but what else is there for you to do  besides raiding after you max?

Arenas, BGs, RP, collect pets, craft, Reputation rewards, daily quests, Heroic dungeons, buy & sell on the AH.  You do not have to RAID , EVER;)

Levels have to cap.  You have to max out.  Eventually content runs dry and reptition sets in.  This is EVERY MMO now and in the future.  No MMO will have endless fresh content, until players can make something thats actually entertaining.  if doing something repetitious seems like a grind, then you might as well give it up and stop playing MMOs. 

Originally posted by Apocamentus

This is so true.  I think quests should just be a fun thing you can do at any level if you want to (something runescape does very well) for some cool little extra items or something.  But I hate it when the game forces me to do this crap excuses for quests just to level up.  It is so increadibly tedious.

Even "mindless" kill tasks have stories.  You just have to connect the dots and of course READ why you're doing it.   Most people just see "kill 10 ants" and ignore the rest.   Most of the time, you're doing it for some sort of purpose that connects to another quest or the lore in that area.  Not all quests are kill tasks anyway. 

If quests are a grind for you, give up the genre, and every videogame for that matter, because in most games, all you're doing is killing a bunch of stuff with a backstory that is rarely well written.  Its the people that matter that you're playing with.  If you can't find friends that are willing to quest with you, than maybe ithe problem is YOURS, not the game.  Besides, if killing all these critters is fun its not a grind anyway.  If killing them is boring, then stop playing and doing everyone a favor.

Its your perspective I guess.   Anything is better than camping spawn points for hours.  At least in every quest based game I can go out a randomly kill things with a group or solo if I choose to, do some quests, then go to a dungeon with my friends again.  In REAL ghrinding games like EQ or DAOC, there are no choices.  Its camp or quit.  Sorry, but I'll take options. 

If you want to RP, find a RP guild.  If you think they don't exist...they're avoiding you or you didn't try hard enough, which wouldn't be suprising because you're whining on a forum about it instead of playing=)

If new zones, a new class, new dungeons and new game play modes is rehashed content, then what isn't rehashed...an entirely new game?   What lazy bastards...they should recreate WOW from the ground up every 6 months=)

Originally posted by Thunderous

 

Originally posted by CDCosta

MMOs are fine the way they are.

Tens of millions of people love them the way they are and i think thats enough.

Maybe that's good enough for YOU, but some of us gamers who like to actually play a challenging game that requires skill and intelligence want more than levels and classes.

 

Thinking like yours stunts progress.  You go ahead and keep playing yoru grindfests with the kids.  Hopefully I'll see some of the adults over at Fallen Earth when it launches.

Skill based games do NOT require any more skill or intelligence.   If by challenging, you mean unintuitive, tedious and boring, you can have all those MMOs most people don't bother playing.

Originally posted by Bababooey

 

Originally posted by CDCosta

This is one of the STUPIDEST threads ive come across....

 

First... MMOs have a certian style to them... which includes levels and armour and all that jazz. Take it away and your making a new genre of game.

Second, it does take 'skill' when you have to plan strategies with a group of people to take down bosses.

Not exactly so.  The reason is because:

 

1 - People believe the level system is outdated.  Skill-based MMO will still be an MMO, same with level-based MMO, all are still MMO's, just with difference in design.  People are debating whether skill-based MMOs are truely more customizable, the balancing associated with it, and weighing their different opinions, etc.  Won't necessarily be a new genre or anything.

2 - Problem is there still is pretty much no skill in the actual killing of the boss.  People just pile-jump and gang-bang the Boss, and when your health gets low, you scream for medics and the medic clicks F1 to heal you, and that's that.  No leg-slashing to decrease its speed (instead you F2 for "Decrease Agility"), you can't sever its arms to prevent it from smashing you to bits, you just repeatedly click (or just auto-click) at the boss to slowly hack away.

That's MY interpretation of "Skill-based MMO's".

Your info on PvE bosses is highly outdated and innacurate.  Go read an FAQ for some of the higher end bosses in WOW or FFXI.   If you think you just click 1 button over and over again,  you're mistaken.   The skill is in figuring out all the strategies and then performing them flawlessly, since one mistake from anyone usually means a wipe.  After doing it 100 times of course it gets easier, but thats not the point.  Its not easy at 1st.

Its a blatant bash and an attempt for someone to sound clever.  Too bad it only makes him sound childish.  Stupid analogies only come from stupid people.  Nuff said=)  It doesn't make sense in the way the bashers expect it too.

The analogy ONLY works if ALL MMOs are fast food and In that case, its not a negative at all, which makes it so funny.  Every fast food chain would love to have MCdonalds' success & reputation. 

Also notice that when the quality of WOW is questioned the person doing the criticising can not EVER bring up another game that has superior quality.   As if sticking IMO at the end of a sentence somehow brings credence to that statement.  The only thing that matters is overall player opinion, numbers, critical acclaim and reviews, all of which WOW tops the charts.  THAT's proof.  1 dorks opinion that says Eve for example is a high quality game, means nothing.  Most other people would find a game with no content where you can advance without actually playing with one of the worst and convoluted UIs, not an example of quality design.