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All Posts by Morrok

All Posts by Morrok

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128 posts found


Originally posted by aspekx
why older games seem better...


'Cause they ARE!

*proudly (re-)playing FFE currently* :P


Originally posted by Dajag
I want crafting to be game within a game, hard and fun.


Really?

Since it was mentioned several times now and i can so not imagine it to be true i thought i'd ask:
Do you REALLY want to play, say, Teris in order to play a house in your MMO?
(a game in a game)

Or wouldn't you rather build a house by first chopping down the trees, cutting them up in a saw mill (or use your axe to build a log house) and use the planks to build the walls that make up the house, to be topped with a roof you build from, say, reed or shingles?


Originally posted by DamonVile

Originally posted by nennafir
What 99% (not all, I grant you!) crafters want...


I laughed...till I realized you were serious.


I couldn't laugh, just think "what a piece of cr.."!
Especially when he mentioned "puzzle games".

IMO people want to play a game, not a game in a game.
(Unless it's stuff like Poker or so in a bar where it fits storywise)
Crafting needs imo to be integrated in such a way that it's a logical/natural "extention" of the game, not a different game.

Crafting needs to be worthwhile doing.
How is it worthwhile?
If every item in the game can be crafted (and has it's use, even if it's the first combine a noob makes in the game even after years after release), and/or the results are equal to or better than drops.
Crafting is even more worthwhile if other players/factions/the world "depend" on crafting.
And, as was mentioned above, a crafter wants to leave his "mark" in the world, e.g. by developing a new combine or "stamping"/watermarking his products (unique looks and/or stats).

IIRC this was asked only like two months ago or so, and as then my answer would be:

Sci-Fi, definitely.
B5 or Star Trek (not the crap they gave us with STO, but some true 3D "open world" universe).
Buck Rogers (the 80's TV series).
Shadowrun would be nice but atm i can't see it being implemented in a working way.
(unless it were missing core "features" like STO does)

But more important than the setting are the game's features imo.


Originally posted by tom_gore
Twitch combat is the future for MMOs. Tabtargeting hotkeyspa(s)m was created because of technical limitations, which mostly don't exist anymore.

It's also why FFXIV will die quickly and WoW will never recover. Once players get spoiled by action combat they won't touch traditional combat MMOs anymore.



LOL, yeah well...
Your opinion only of course.

If i were you, i'd be very careful with such "predictions".
After all, the condemned live longer!

It all depends on how fast-paced the game's supposed to be i guess.
Healers mean you have generally less downtime between fights.
Even StarTrek and the like have healers, because sitting there recuperating isn't much fun.

On the other hand, if you can do whole dungeons without healers, they're not worth doing OR the game depends on stuff like stealth and killing enemies (and being killed) with just a few hits.

So yeah, i think healers are good for the game.
How these are implemented though and how dependant the game is on them is a different matter...


Originally posted by Helleri
So what game are you playing there?


If you had watched the vid or read the description on YouTube, you'd had noticed that the game was Vendetta Online.



Originally posted by Phaserlight
I just wanted to show you this video because I feel like a total badass in it.


Well, and that's why i won't play such games, at least not much.
As clearly shown in that vid, targeting is a nightmare.
It's bad enough in a LAN-multiplayer game, but in a MMO it boils down to who has the best equipment and connection.

It looked like your opponent shot you up, i agree in that with Helleri.
At least you never got anywhere near the targbeting help when you snapped off a shot, so i wonder how you should have hit at all.

I have played twitch-based MMO's before, and either combat was... too... "ping-dependant" or the hitboxes were too large (to adjust for latency) or combat was simply slow (relatively spoken, like in BF2).
Most often it was a combination of the above which made the whole experience... urgh.


Originally posted by PWN_FACE
Those EULAs are there just to cow people into thinking they don't have legal rights or that they've signed them away.


This.

Besides, as i have said elsewhere already, EULAs aren't necessarily (or better: generally) binding in any way anyways.
Companies, almost by definition, want to limit their accountability to zero.
So they try to impose "contracts" on customers which give them all rights (e.g. to charge you recurring fees) while at the same time denying the customer any of HIS rights.
Yet, what many people forget is that certain customer right's can not be denied in the first place (which these are depend on the local laws) rendering the whole (or at least the "offending" parts of the) EULA null and void.

As was said, companies want to discourage people from taking legal action against them, that's all there is to it.


Originally posted by Alasti
I have had many, many accomplishments in my MMORPG history, but I cannot think of any that would eclipse this:


In response to the above i have to agree with

Originally posted by Mortemia
The sad thing with mmorpgs is that there isn't anything unique you can do, that would make you stand out of the rest. Personally I don't take it as an accomplishment if I reach top level or get that one nice raid gear full. To me it feels like you are still 'just another guy'.


Even though reaching max level in EQ was an "achievement" in itself, taking several years for me on my first char, that wasn't much of one, since other players were there faster, better, whatever.
And gear is outdated these days with each new expansion basically, back then with every other expansion, so again not much of an achievement especially since you had to rely on others to get that.


The real accomlishments for me were:
(successfully) leading my guild after a few hurting split-ups and an alliance for several years.
As well as becoming a trusted and valued member in the "open raid community".

On a more personal level, it was playing (boxing) two chars with the same or greater efficiency on raids than some or rather most "raiders" i encountered later in my "career".

Making more friends than enemies in the games i played so far.

Those are what i, looking back, feel are my "greatest accomplishments" in my MMORPG history.


Originally posted by tom_gore
Story doesn't make a game into an RPG. Role Playing does.


Well, how do you RP if there's no story, no background?
Is the roleplaying of an Elf the same in a AD&D setting as it is in a LotR setting?
Or does a AD&D Elf RP the same like a Shadowrun Elf?
I think not.

You need to have a story to place your RP *ON*.
That's why in a well-led P&P RPG you are asked by your master to develop a background story for your char.



Originally posted by tom_gore
RPG is born from player interaction, where both parties can react to any number of situations and adapt accordingly.


My first reaction to this was "bullshit".
My second (and "official") reaction is: Well, not quite.

MMORPGs originally *substituted* the RP-player-group.
Depending on how "free" the NPCs are programmed (and granted, they're not coded all too flexibly in most MMOs) your RP has influence on or even a defning quality to your gaming experience even if there's NO player-interaction involved.
That's why factions have entered the games, although faction systems could be (much) more detailed.



Originally posted by tom_gore
Unfortunately the gaming crowd of today has been fed lies and substandard products for years and today most consider RPG to mean increasing stats on your character sheet and a modicum of ready-chewed story.


Sorry to have to say it, but this is utter bull.
What you describe above is called "progression", not role-playing.

But true, in recent years less and less effort was invested in "story".
If i might remind people of EQ back in Kunark or Velious times, back there "story" (and which "route" you followed, faction-choices you made) actually mattered for your gameplay experience.
But in Luclin, this was lessened and it was basically non-existant ever since PoP, where both story and progression became quite linear and faction choices were either not existant or didn't "carry over".



Originally posted by tom_gore
The difference is that no story is truly Personal unless you make it yourself.


"personal story" to ME is what your char has encountered, what formed how you play him.
Player-created stuff is nice, but unless we're talking P&P roleplaying, it doesn't MATTER.
That's why "true RP" has been all but abandoned in basically all MMO's, in favor of "professionalism" and min/maxing.


Originally posted by AlBQuirky
How do you think an MMO like this would fair? Would an MMO by the popular numbers interest you?


How would it fair? Or how would it fare?
I do not think a poll-driven development process would be feasible in the first place.

I feel that the best games are done by the Dev's that have a clear vision of their game AND stick to it, crowd be damned.
For example, the Wing Commander series wasn't for me as it was much too shooting-minded.
Yet, when Privateer (and especially later Freelancer) was released, it was more to my liking. Still, Wing Commander was a good game/series in their own right, just not for me.

With MMO's i feel, it should be the same.
Like Wing Commander had it's following (and many of those didn't much like Privateer, at least in my peer group), so do games like STO which i feel has failed horribly.

If a Dev-Team sticks to it's idea/vision, the crowd of potential players might be smaller, but in the end more satisfied and loyal i bet than if they had tried to please everybody or "the majority" (and in doing so alienate some group of players that voted differently than the majority on one poll or the other).

And really, if the general concept were "open" (and robust) enough, there's nothing in the way to make "spinoff's" to suit different groups' tastes, just like with the Wing Commander Series.


Originally posted by Incomparable
So do people really want everything to be mashed up together?


Why "mashed up together"?

Stories take place in a world, whether it's personal stories, class or whatever.
Why should there be different "worlds" (instances, single-player "prelude" to the online game or whatever method you come up with) to tell different (kinds of) stories?

While i agree that a character's personal story need not (should not) be the same quests for each player, each character's progression takes place in the game world, and so each "story" should take place there too.

And yes, i WANT my MMORPG's to offer lore that my char uncovers.


Originally posted by Piechunks
There's a niche for games like that, they're called RPG's.


That "niche" stands for a whole genre, it's called MMORPG.
You want games without a story, go play stuff like Battlefield or CounterStrike.
These are Online games all right, perhaps even Multiplayer but certainly not massive and least of all RPG's.


Originally posted by Icewhite
A newb asks a question about the game's interface (an easy--but not instantly apparent--one).


None of your answers do even remotely represent a viable reaction imo.
If the answer isn't "instantly apparent", then the core of the issue is with the game's docs.

IMO questions show interest, and there's no "noobish question", only noobish behavior.
questions deserve an honest/earnest answer, noobish behavor deserves only being put on /ignore.


Originally posted by Mendel
The gaming industry has used the same basic methods for abstracting conflict resolution for so long now that the fundamental gaming aspect has gotten stale.


First of all, i can't agree with that.
The HP system (nor it's "reuse" in different forms in basically all MMO's) isn't responsible for "the fundamental gaming aspect" getting stale.
I don't think the HP system is a "stale" gaming aspect either.

Computers are about numbers, that's what they do best.
The first RPG-related programs were DM-aides to sort random encounters etc, to speed gaming up and keep the session/story fluid.

True, reducing the whole character body to a single number is oversimplifying things perhaps, but a system that allows for location-specific tracking (especially with lasting effects/maiming) require a lot more numbers, both for the single character but also for each mob, which in turn exponentionally increase client (and/or server as well as bandwidth) load.
In the early days, where these systems were established, that was simply not feasible.

Also, i don't think that the HP system is "responsible" for mudflation as it came across in your post. Responsible for the ever-increasing HP (and damage) totals isn't the HP system, but the Dev's which go the most easy and most "visible" route of increasing numbers instead of increasing variety.
It's just too temping (apparently) to outdate older content and gear through "mudflation" and herd people into playing/farming the newer content (and keep players paying) for the higher-HP and damage gear instead of maintaining a high-quality standard through offering "true" challanges and choices or features.

.
Anyways, no matter by which system you are going to replace the "single number system", you're looking at a whole lot of other problems that need to be addressed too or additional workload that needs to be worked at in the same release-interval.
All that and the result isn't such a "make or break feature" nor in most cases even visible enough to warrant the additional effort, at least not on a character level.
(you'd need not "that 3D model", but several, and different 3Dparts showing that lasting damage in addition to the numbers for example)
I don't think it's realistic to expect that the HP system is going to be replaced, at least not anytime soon.
And i don't think it's necessary either, since the major faults that you attribute to the system have, in my yes, either nothing to do with the system as such or could be resolved by easier, more cost-effective, means.


Originally posted by DrCokePepsi
Everquest introduced a theme-park element, and WoW is ultimately the poison that screwed up the market as it was intended to be. WoW brought in the mainstream, casuals.


WoW did *NOT* "bring in the casuals".
Casual players existed long before WoW.



Originally posted by DrCokePepsi
MMORPGs were intended to be...


Another if not wrong then at least quite dangerous statement.
Who is to say "what was meant to be"?

The term MMORPG says it all i think:
MMO=massive mulitiplayer online
RPG=role playing game
Originally from nerds for nerds - no one else played P&P RPG's.
True, especially recently not all MMO's are also RPG's.
Then again, the RPG-aspect was never really very wide-spread among the players.
Most played MMO's because they enjoyed doing what they liked best (playing computer games) with a few RL friends instead of each one playing "with himself".
That you could make friends from all over the world was another factor for some (most i reckon), but surely not for all.

Players are a diversified lot, and there's no "one" MMO, RPG or otherwise, that "fits all".
One can say what one want against WoW, but it *did* open the market to a completely new target audience and brought the genre out of the shadows and into the light of the public, for better or worse.



Originally posted by DrCokePepsi
No longer will companies DARE move out of this (financially) successful formula.


And yet another statement that doesn't hold up too well under scrutiny.
The problem isn't that companies don't "dare" to make something un-WoW'ish, the problem is that such projects, if they reach release at all, didn't attract loads of players, for various reasons.
One of these reasons was certainly that such projects tend to be underfunded, lacking the support of a major publisher; insofar your statement has something to it.
But other reasons are certainly that players are a rather finite number, have their preferences (MMOs they've played for long and are ever less likely to abandon the more time they've invested into one), and have so many different interests.



Originally posted by DrCokePepsi
A game's success should not be measured in it's financial earnings, but how loyal the community in it is, and the quality of the game as a whole.


Well, they are.
"Quality" - contrary to the popular understanding - doesn't mean "the best possible result", but "the agreed-upon or sufficient result".
Loyal players don't help you if there are too few of them.
So, each of the points you listed above builds on the other:
No loyal players (or not enough of them) with sub-par "quality of the game as a whole", no financial success without (enough paying) players, no good game without financial success (and a financially solid beginning/start)...



Originally posted by DrCokePepsi
The MMORPG genre lost it's loyal, hardcore, niche fan-base


No, that fan-base isn't "lost" (except perhaps to RL-"adventures" like jobs and family that cut into time-budgets formerly used for playing).
But yes, the fan-base you call out to is indeed "drowned in a sea" of players that "in the old days" didn't "mess" with your game or even just take part in the market.



Originally posted by DrCokePepsi
Developers don't care what a good MMORPG game would be, and they wouldn't add unnecessary features to it


Wrong again.
I bet most developers DO care, and i bet that more often than not it's the controller/accountant/suit that prevents "unnecessary features" added to it.



Originally posted by DrCokePepsi
The market hasn't seen a GOOD MMORPG in a long time.


"Good" is relative.
While i agree with the sentiment as such, i bet that "my good" differs widely from "your good".



Originally posted by DrCokePepsi
A new genre should be created for the casuals.


There's no need to "create" anything for "casuals".
"casuals" will look for and find whatever appeals to them.
You seem to think that should be some lobby-based game.
I, as (meanwhile) one of the "casuals", disagree.
A different GAME perhaps for the "casual", or some different content within the same game.
But a new *genre*?
I don't think so.



Originally posted by DrCokePepsi
they could have their auction house, dungeons, and the works, without interfering with the MMORPG genre.


I honestly don't understand your argument.
"dungeons and the works" BELONG or even MAKE UP "the MMORPG genre".
And auction houses might, but need not "break it".


.
You seem to be overly bothered by "the casuals", which is sad.
After all, for most MMO's it's the casuals that are the profitable players that keep the game(s) afloat, developed and online.
And we ALL play for our entertainment, not to play "hard" or "soft", but simply for fun.
Heck, sometimes when i go online i don't play at all, but just chat.
And my "dedication" differs widely, depending on when i play what with whom - but not on the game.

From my point of view, your issue shouldn't be with "the casuals", but instead with the game companies that "deny" you "your" game.
And your whole rant is based on a misconception, that "casuals" mess up the MMORPG-"genre".
Well, they don't.
Even WoW - while certainly very "casual-friendly" - can be (and is, by some) played "hard".


Originally posted by BearKnight
I remember [...] making jokes about SOE starting into the foray of micro-transactions
[...]
So my question to you is this, do you consider XP potions a form of P2W anymore, if no why not?


Yes, XP potions are still a form of P2W imo.
Though in EQ's case, the impact has been lowered a lot since some easy-to-do quests give a lot of XP.

But EQ's also an example for how much announcements/assurances that cash-shop-items will be "of a cosmetic nature only" are really worth.


Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Any business (at least in America) can refuse to serve someone.


But no business can take my money and not deliver the service or product.

Personally, i think nothing's eaten as hot as it's cooked.
But if they indeed just "ban" people, in the way it's done these days (simply shutting doen the account), then they'll get themselves into trouble.

EULA's aren't as binding as they want you think they are, even moreso if they are as long as SOE's and even less so if they're containing clauses that basically say "you pay and we decide what we can or will deliver for that money" which leave such a "contract" simply null and void.


What's really bad is the usage of the "serious enough".
What defines "serious enough"?
WHO decides what is "serious enough"?
Are these "standards" communicated in advance, and how?
Can a customer take action AGAINST a ban, and how?

Not only are there serious legal implications, they're also - at least potentially - cutting their own flesh:
Do you really want to live or play in a cencored environment?
I mean, i am aware - we all should be since Snowden - that in fact we DO already live in such a environment, but is it healthy not only for free speech but also for "fun"?

The goal might be a noble one, the method chosen is more then questionable.


Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
What people tend not to realize is freedom of speech is at a government level, as in the government can't restrict what you can say. A business has every right to restrict what you say as a customer or an employee.


That is actually only half-true.
No business has the right to restrict what i say in my free time and/or in matters that do not interfere with my duties to the business as such.

e.g. while McDonalds might get away with firing you for saying "Burger King's better" *IF* you do so while clearly on-duty, they cannot fire you for saying the same thing in your free time.
All they *can* do if you say "Burger King's better" *in* a McD. is ask you to leave the shop and never return.
(The "not wanting your business" part)
But they can not keep the burger you paid for simply because you said "Burger King's better", even if they ask you to leave and never return.
That burger has been sold, the transaction has been done, it's yours.
And the latter equals paying for an account and having it closed without a refund before the paid-for time is up.


Originally posted by nariusseldon
Yeh. That is why a difficulty slider will be the best solution ... everyone gets a challenge level of their liking.


Actually i don't think a "difficulty slider/setting" would do us or the game any good.
After all, we're talking MMO's here, not single player games.


Something like this was done by EQ in LDoN, where you (on a group level) could choose to enter the dungoens on "normal" or "hard" setting (lvl63-65 mobs on normal vs. lvl68 mobs when the cap was lvl65).
But as Mel has said, that only changed the mob density and hitpoints.
It worked, and was fun, but only until new gear trivialized it, of course.
But something like that can only be done on a per-instance level, not for the whole world, unless you create different worlds/servers for each "difficulty setting".

The desciption you gave of WoW and the two "totally different playstyles" aren't so different after all.
It's just two different methods for defeating said encounter.
But optimizing for DPS or surviveability hardly equals "different playstyle" - it's just adopting to the situation, as is the case in ANY raid, which is (should be, at least) composed of different encounters.


Originally posted by ThomasN7
There is no challenge, everything can be bought from a cash shop nowadays and everything is so simplified so everyone's grandmother can understand how to play.


"Challenge" is a subjective thing. What might be challenging for me might be trivial to you and vice versa. So at most you can say "there is no challgenge there for ME".

Cash shops are a sad development indeed, but apprently well visited, so managers/investors seem to insist they be implemented.
The real regrettable develpment here is that accounting/controlling has far too much influence on MMO development, at the cost of creativity and "uniqueness".

Simplification:
What else do you expect?
Console-Controllers become more popular, kids these days can hardly write let alone read correctly or do simple math; if a UI/controlling mechanism isn't "intuitive", many are simply overwhelmed and whine about the "steep learning curve".
As was said above: instant gratification is what they seek these days, and they get it.
At the same time, the "mature" players are, well, mature and "time-challgended" due to job and family.
And last but not least, management WANTS to target as borad an audience as possible and so many steps are taken to reduce "barriers".



Originally posted by ThomasN7
It really is quite laughable what developers think of us as gamers. They think we are so stupid that every time they make a game they need to re-teach us how to play. Really ? Listen up devs, we aren't stupid, we been playing mmos probably a lot longer than most of you out there. You guys lack so much vision on what mmos should be and you only worry about your quarterly earnings.


Too much generalization imo.
You speak of "us gamers", as if "the gamers" were a homogenous lot.
The truth is though that "the gamers" are diversified.
Also, you spek to "the devs" there, when it has over the years become quite apparent that it's not the devs but the accountants/controllers who're calling the shots.
And the more money's involved, the less likely it is that this will ever be reveresed.



Originally posted by ThomasN7
Since vanilla WoW there hasn't been a mmo that has captured the hearts of gamers.
[...]
Within 3-6 months just about every mmo I mentioned has had no staying power whatsoever.


If you speak of major titles, then you're probably correct, i don't recall a "true success" recently either.
There have been MMO's that "captured the hearts of gamers", but too few of them.
That didn't attract many players in the first place and/or their development has been slowed down/ceased for a number of reasons.
For the major titles though, these have to deal with huge expectations (which were poorly managed) and failed to deliver.

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