SWG has been spinning the drain for years, if vet's wanted to come back they would...they don't need some cheap SoE hand-out.

Perhaps if they handled this game properly they would be trying to tempt us with the meger table scraps they consider a 'deal'....but that's fine, MxO is dead and SWG will follow it if Old Republic is half as good as it appears.

Here's an idea Dsebutchr: why don't you step down to the level of an immature pissant troll so you can prove some idiotic point that nobody here cares about, that'll show them.

By the by congratz on coming to the aid of somebody who chose to ignore it, maybe you should take his example and shut the fuck up.

How old are you again? 37? way to act your age man, GG

moron.

Originally posted by Balter  

My budget is $5500.

I want something with good acceleration and that is a 4 door, decent sized, and is good looking.

 OK that helps, do you live in an area with a heavy snowfall/rainfall?

are you concerned about gas mileage..in other words if this car only gets 24mpg on the freeway do you care?

Is a convertible a plus, minus or doesn't matter?

Originally posted by Balter

2002 Chrysler Sebring LX (2.7L V6)

I want inexpensive car that looks decent and has power.

Any other suggestions? (I'm not into that Honda Civic type stuff).

I'm going by the assumption that you want: look, quality, good mileage, sporty, fun?

Without knowing your price range, or more accurate how much you're willing to pay...handing out car ideas is tough, however i can give a few.

http://www.crsaab.com/sites/Charles%20River%20Saab/user/model_pages/93-convertible-large.jpg

^2008 Saab 9-3 convertable.

http://designercars.nl/biler/Honda-CRX-39.jpg

^Honda CR-X

The Cr-X is old but brother can it look good! and she's got pick up for small car, the mileage is really good too (41/50) and the CR-Z.(supposedly) is coming out.

Originally posted by Marvell

Originally posted by Just Talking

"You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, (Exodus 20:5) -Jealousy (sin)

Jealousy is not sin - envy is.

Bullshit...and way to split hairs there...better re-read that bible you like to quote:

 Jealousy is listed by the apostle Paul as a work of the flesh
(Galatians 5:20); it will keep one from entering into heaven (Galatians
5:21
 

God: "About midnight I will go throughout Egypt. Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the slave girl, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well. There will be loud wailing throughout Egypt - worse than there has ever been or ever will be again. But among the Israelites not a dog will bark at any man or animal."-Murder (sin)

God did not murder them. He executed evil, evil people who rebelled against His Word. This is a much larger topic than a sentence reply, but it deals justice.

Right...damn cattle, will they never follow god's divine plan?

He executed-full-stop, so much so that not even livestock was spared?!? i don't do this much but that deserves a 'wtf?'...how the hell does murdering a calf have to do with anything except God dishing out cruel and unusual punishment on whomever is left?

The main problem with this next claim is that you take out of a historical context. God did not yet make capital punishment law yet (Gen 9:6). Because of this, God still punished him quite severely, but also had mercy on him. God can have mercy on whomever He wishes.

Was this sufficient?

Oh yes, very sufficent...you managed to prove my point completly...and Dawkins as well, while ignoring pieces of the very discussion i posted.

Cain was -not respected- by God..how can a caring, loving God have disrespect for a obvious follower?

Cain was not only allowed to live but if anybody killed him they would receive punishment (I.E. God's Wrath) seven fold....ummm dude...you do realize that by killing Cain they would receive capital punishment by God..right??

I think this is all i need to address...you've been extremely eloquent on your Gods vengeance, jealousy, ego, playing people against themselves, bigotry, and contempt for his own creations (even animals) than i ever could've.

Thank you.

Edit: I'm just going to leave this right here....

"Wrath is cruel and anger a torrent, but who is
able to stand before jealousy?" (Proverbs 27:4)-Paul

"You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me (Exodus 20:5)

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness." Rom. 1:18

...Funny...i find it hard to tell if Paul was talking about man's faults or of God.

 

 

  

#1. You cannot debate with hate. It's impossible. Because it lacks reason. I'm friends with quite a few atheists. Very cool people, I couldn't care about their lack of faith so to speak, it's their own business, we've had religious discussions, faithbased discussions, etc. It has never turned into antagonistic self-righteousness though.

Hate? where? Dawkins has never said that he 'hated' any person of faith..not once, and neither have i...Oh i see, calling God out the way Dawkins did constitutes hate to you...because after all if somebody speaks ill of the big-bad ghost in the sky they must obviously hate it.

Perhaps you should re-read what Dawkins said before you throw around the word 'hate'..he considers God to be a work of fiction as do i....you can't hate something that doesn't exist, but you can dislike the institution that spawned because of it.

#2. I thought the debate was as individuals, not a hive mind? I find it ironic how you accuse me of "ducking", but when you're confronted with a valid point, "OH. And religion has never done this? Yah! Yah! There have been religious people that have done this! You hypocrite". God, I hope if there are aliens, and they have superior technology, they don't take this narrow minded antagonistic view of, "If one of them does it. They're all guilty of it".

And i find it intresting that, yet again, you evaded the comment that you responded too..again...ducking? brother you give new meaning to the word.

Hyprocrite? total nonsense.

I hope there are aliens too...it'll blow a big gaping hole in that thing you call faith.

Btw, resorting to ad hominems, not kosher.

I'll stop it when you do.

  

#1. Anyone who uses Richard Hawkins never has, nor ever will, address a topic of religious discussion well.

That's your opinion that's not supported by any facts...kinda like Religion, and so far only one of you who disagree has even attempted to address my post with any revelance..you, like the rest, make up a few  sentences that has nothing to do with the post and rather a verbal attack on Dawkins, you don't even bother to address his stance...but instead call him 'disgusting and vile'

How very religious, when you can't address it or understand it...attack it.

 

#2. What's to counter? A man who falls into close enough belief of a man who considers faith, a "disease of the mind" does not desire an intellectual belief, but to be an antagonist.

 Right...and religion isn't guilty of that at all

People of religion try to convince and convert others into thinking that an invisible, immortal, omnipotent, kingdom in the sky "Lord of Lord's" made everything and if we don't believe in him or his son...we're damned....because a 3000+ year old book tells you so.

To compound on this, other religions are totally and completely incorrect and to follow them is damnation as well.

To the religious, the unfaithful have a disease of the soul and the others who believe in a God just not their God are fools, damned because of their ignorance.

Religion does not desire a spiritual belief, just drones....see what i did there? i can twist things around just like you.

So once again i have to ask, are you going to bring something to the table....or are you going to whine some more?

 

 

Originally posted by Teala

Look it isn't that hard of question to answer...seriously.   I do not have to name any race, country or people by name.  The question stands as is.  If you must...say Romans vs the Greeks or humans vs cylons - take your pick.   It was a hypothetical question.  One country is committed to practicing genocide on another.  Is it fair for the other to use the same to wipe them out so that peace can finally be had?

Is that so hard to answer?

 Actually, yes it is.

 This isn't a question about challenging the class bully to a fight at 3 o'clock, this is a question about the wholesale slaughter of a group of people..it's a disturbing question and it has an answer:

No, never.

The reason why it has an answer? we've been down that road before, thankfully the actions of a few did not condem an entire culture to death.

Action T4, Nazi eugenics and the Holocaust is more than enough evidence to show that genocide is a horrid, vile and disgusting thing that should be remembered and never repeated, it is humanity at it's worst.

Lebensunwertes Leben(life unworthy of life) is what the Nazi's called people that they considered had no right to live...if i was born in Germany during that time i would have been on that list myself, a disturbing thought.

Make no mistake, these were not swift deaths.

Your answer is out there, it lies with the bodies of the 5.59-6.2 million Jews the 2.1 million Polish and the 2+ million Soviets that died in camps around Germany.

Originally posted by Arndur  

They were punishments not sins. Also God is the most caring hmmm being I guess though nothing else is at his level. Yes He showed great wrath in the OT but in the NT Jesus came and made it clear to love the sinner and hate the sin. He sent his one and only son to die on the cross and die for our sins. I don't think a person/being Dawkins described would ever do that.

Well Jesus is something I'm not discussing right now as i don't want the OT and NT to overlap, I'm talking about the head-honcho...I'll get to Jesus later, God may be many things but i don't see how 'caring' is part of it...impatient? oh yes...vindictive? no doubt.

They were punished because of sin, it goes hand-in hand.

The racism line was a HUGE stretch that still doesn't work. He separated them from nations who did not believe not the race. They were most likely the same race being that it was all in that same part of the world they just followed a different religion and in fact some translations have it as nations instead of people.

Very well, let us for arguments sake say that the 'racism line' is indeed a 'huge stretch' we must then ask why a, as you put it, 'caring God' not only separate his followers (Jews) from the non-believers (Gentiles) but insisted (even in the period of Jesus) that Gentiles be pushed out and chastized...this does not sound like a very caring God to me, nor does this sound like a God that loves his creations....it instead sounds like a spiteful individual who has no need for people who weren't Jewish/Non-Israelite.

Jealous God as in attention should not be given to idols or earthly things because they did nothing and are nothing. He was making it clear who it is they serve.

Indeed, all attention should be on God...sorta like that spoiled child who throws a tantrum if his/her parents don't play with him/her enough.

He is a jealous God, why he's jealous is irrelevant..i find a huge flaw in a jealous supreme-being.

Originally posted by MarleVVLL

Originally posted by JustTalking

Ok...so he won't kill a man guilty of murder...but he'll wipe out two cities...wow.

Yeah...i think his statement is valid.

 

Before you blame God for injustice, you should figure out why He did what He did. I can give an awnser for each of the verses and issues you brought up. Nothing contradicts the nature of God and everything lines up in perfect love, justice, meekness and servant hood.

   By all means, I'm interested in reading your counterpoint.

   Blame god? who's blaming God?...not me, Dawkins said that God is arguably the most vile creatures in fiction...i agree...and the Bible proves that...I, in turn, tried to show an example to his statement...nothing more, nothing less.

I hope the Taco sues.

Originally posted by IIRL

People of strong faith ignore attacks towards them.

Others who are programmed into faith gets upset, angry and flare up when their faith is questioned same goes for people who have the need to belong to something that chooses a faith of convience.

The bible is a compilation of "books", it's been manipulated time to time, it's filled with contradictions and vague recollections of actual occurences. Looking at it with our current form of logic driven for scientific and common sense.

I don't understand people who gets furiated when their faith is questioned or when other individuals don't believe or recognize their faith, I sense their faith is not strong enough. One who truly embraces one faith should not burden their mind and soul with trivial aggrevations and sadness but hold on to the happiness and goodwill it brings.

If you all are looking for the ultimate faith it will find and you and enlighten you, it is not governed by a god nor a creature but an entity bestowed in us all, my faith is the true faith. My faith does not chain you, my faith does not punish you.

I think it's because they have been programmed to defend/convert as much as they can, whenever they can..i also believe that if most people of Christ were very, very honest with themselves they would even say that their faith has been tested and/or they've had doubts....which may play upon their own uncertainties.

First, let me say that i was once a Lutheran for many, many years and that we are taught to go out and 'save people' to 'teach the word of God' to the masses, it kinda goes like this:

Random person: So, JT...have you been saved?

JT: No, i don't believe in God

Random person: Then you're damned and you will go to hell unless you accept Jesus as your personal savior.

JT: And how do you know this?

Random Person: Because the Bible and the teachings of Christ tell us about his sacrifice he made for us.

JT:mhmm...and how do you know that your religion is the right one?

Random Person: *blank stare*

Originally posted by MarleVVLL

Originally posted by JustTalking

Richard Dawkins, i believe, sums up God/religion quite well:

The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. - Richard Dawkins

 

That has to be the most rediculous, biased and disgusting description of the OT LORD GOD I've ever read in my entire life.

yuck.

/throw up

Perhaps, but it also makes a valid point, i didn't really expect you to agree with it or support it, but perhaps you would like to counter it?

Very well then, allow me to back-up what Dawkins wrote with something you are very much familiar with...scripture-slinging.

"You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, (Exodus 20:5) -Jealousy (sin)
 

God: "About midnight I will go throughout Egypt. Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the slave girl, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well. There will be loud wailing throughout Egypt - worse than there has ever been or ever will be again. But among the Israelites not a dog will bark at any man or animal."-Murder (sin)

At midnight the LORD struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well. Pharaoh and all his officials and all the Egyptians got up during the night, and there was loud wailing in Egypt, for there was not a house without someone dead. (Exodus 11:4-7) -Murder (sin)

But I have said to you, "You shall inherit their land, and I will give it to you to possess, a land flowing with milk and honey." I am the LORD your God, who has separated you from the peoples. (Leviticus 20:24)-Racial seperation??...so....God made inferior people??-Racism (sin)

The "peoples" in which God is referring to is the Gentiles and does so several times throughout the OT.

Then the Lord rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the Lord out of the heavens" (Genesis 19:24)-God destroys -two- cities because of the goings-on within it, like homosexual activity...in fact God actually plots with Lot to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah -all of the above with Dawkins statement (sins)

Lots wife is turned int o a pillar of salt because she disobeyed God and looked back...yeah..God didn't show off on that one...

God floods the world and only spares Noah, his family and two of every creature ( a remarkable ark indeed) because of the 'wicked sinners' ( i guess the remaining animals, the newborn babies, and the grass were wicked to the core)

...But God  spares Cain?!?...

Ah yes the Cain and Abel story...if there is any story that shows God as being entity who plays favorites because somebody is giving him something that he considers better, it's this one....strange that an all-powerful being who loves his creations would do such a thing...

The verse is too long to list (Genesis 4:1-16)

3And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

4And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

5But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.-God plays favorites (not really a sin but still fits within Dawkins Statement)

And here comes the amazing part:

15 Then the Lord replied to him, "In that case,whoever kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over."And he placed a mark on Cain so that whoever found him would not kill him. Then Cain went out from the Lord's presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.
 

Ok...so he won't kill a man guilty of murder...but he'll wipe out two cities...wow.

Yeah...i think his statement is valid.

Well...since you threw up a Squirrel with a cup of joe i figured i'd show all you fine people the real way Easter Eggs are made:

Pink isn't bad, but not my style at all....she's too made up, a figment of a culture that she never really belonged too, IMHO.

Now this lady on the other hand is where it's at.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI7yBwtJoi4

And rounding it off, well the entire band really but still:

http://www.veoh.com/videos/e113164ymyGwDhZ?rank=2&jsonParams=%7B%22numResults%22%3A20%2C%22rlmin%22%3A0%2C%22query%22%3A%22seven+wonders%22%2C%22rlmax%22%3Anull%2C%22veohOnly%22%3Atrue%2C%22order%22%3A%22default%22%2C%22range%22%3A%22a%22%2C%22sId%22%3A%22201957109902235871%22%7D&searchId=201957109902235871&rank=3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP0APvTSMMw

We didn't start the fire...

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by JustTalking

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRhpkHX0WNU 

 

The real one of Aha's Take On Me was awesome.

I agree, it was quite different and for certain ranks among one of the best in music.

Originally posted by nickelpat

I know that racism doesn't just encompass the black community, but I just didn't want to say:

"Not let's handle American's prejudice against Hispanics, those with disabilities, homosexuals, bi-sexual, and those that choose to live life differently."

Just didn't fit.

And yes, it IS a pretty big leap forward for Civil Rights. It's undeniable really. Yes, it does speak more of those who voted. They're not racist ;)

Is it gone? Hell no.

Is anything I say on these forums going to be overanaylzed and ridiculed because I don't explain everything to great depth and people read much too far into things? Hell yes.

Please get off your cross, when you speak in finalities expect people to jump on it....you said that:

"Racism was out of the way"-Incorrect

"A GIANT leap forward for American Civil Rights" is totally different than "pretty big" and nobody denied it...all i said was that it speaks more of the voting community than of Obama, and it does...take Obama with the same education and political stance and see how he fares in 1960's America...he wouldn't have a chance in hell.

Originally posted by Rayx0r

Originally posted by JustTalking

Originally posted by nickelpat

And you can't deny the man did make a giant step for American civil rights. Now that we got racism out of the way, let's handle America's sexism issue :P

 

 ......This was sarcasm, right? please tell me this was sarcasm!

  Make a giant step in American Civil Rights?!?.....when?...am i responding to Spike Lee???

 Obama ran for office and was elected, this speaks more about the current setting of the American voting population than it does of him, 50 years ago Obama would never gotten his shot reguardless of his issues....Martin Luther King J.R.? HUGE step in American Civil Rights...Obama? more like a soft patter.

 Now that we have racism out of the way?......i don't know where you live brother but racism is far from gone here.

Let's handle America's sexism issue?...agreed.

 

 

 

you make it sound like any black man could have been elected to office.  Ask Jesse Jackson about that. 

I wouldnt undermine his efforts through his campaign, because it makes the opposing parties look incredibly incapable.

You do realize that Jessie Jackson back in 1984 made remarks against the Jewish community calling them "Hymies" and called New York "Hymietown" right?

That stain does not go away, i don't care how many times he apologized for it....and neither do voters.

Originally posted by nickelpat

And you can't deny the man did make a giant step for American civil rights. Now that we got racism out of the way, let's handle America's sexism issue :P

 ......This was sarcasm, right? please tell me this was sarcasm!

  Make a giant step in American Civil Rights?!?.....when?...am i responding to Spike Lee???

 Obama ran for office and was elected, this speaks more about the current setting of the American voting population than it does of him, 50 years ago Obama would never gotten his shot reguardless of his issues....Martin Luther King J.R.? HUGE step in American Civil Rights...Obama? more like a soft patter.

 Now that we have racism out of the way?......i don't know where you live brother but racism is far from gone here.

Let's handle America's sexism issue?...agreed.