Kinda looks like "When goat mounts go BAADDD"!

Originally posted by starwarsnut

LOL. Im starting to wonder if anyone on this thread has actually played lotro at all.

How weird is that? That's just what I thought when I read your original post. But then again, LotRO is a bit short  on ewoks running around the Old Forest or Mirkwood; a few trolls though, so maybe that's the connection! LOL

btw, i bought my lifetime sub for £75 the day before F2P was announced. No regrets then, no regrets now :)

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

I'm a lifer and  so I'm getting a  kick out of this thread ...

Amen to that!

I don't see what the big issue is. If the OP really is a Starwarsnut, then SWTOR will be out soon - Problem solved!

As for me, i'm off to get some more popcorn!

I've been enjoying the warden too. Got about half a level to go to max cap (for now). Gambits are a whole lot of fun, and it's an amazing solo class.

In fact the only thing that bugs me is that the icons for the 3 gambit building abilities are not colour coded (apart from the fact that quick thrust should be red anyway). Come on Turbine, how about re-skinning "shield bash" in green and "wardens taunt" in Yellow? I know that's got a touch of the OCD about it, but is it too much to ask?!

Originally posted by Gruug

While I have no access to "real" data (and Xfire is not real data), I would say that there are far fewer subscribers to LOTRO this month then there was prior to the so-called f2p conversion. From what I have been seeing is a lot of my friends on my friends list are no longer playing. Even "new" friends are no longer playing or are playing so infrequently that I never catch them online. In fact, even I have been logging in less. That does not mean I am not interested just that I am finding it harder to justify logging in without my friends to play with.

That begs the question, "what are my friends now playing?" Well, other so-called f2p games. What some might call good for MMOs being this f2p model might also be called a big reason for people to stay less focused on one game at a time. Now, instead of logging on to LOTRO they are trying games like APB or Champions Online or Age of Conan or some of the newer Facebook games (I know....yuck) or any number of other "free" games. The point is, they no longer feel that they are restricted to playing LOTRO and therefore AREN'T. Frankly, I see f2p becoming the death of MMO's.

But let's not forget, it's the middle of the Summer. There are far more destractions to playing LotRO than just other games.

I, (like a lot of people, i suspect) find myself playing a lot less LotRO (and games in general) during the Summer, and let's not forget that, as LotRO is seen as a more "mature" game, you're unlikely to get a huge influx of bored school kids filling this void.

For what it's worth, I think LotRO will do just fine in the long term, but with a few of the recent changes, (not F2P - I've not issues with that) I do find myself in an uncomfortable position - I'm a solo gamer that is actually bemoaning the solofication of the game.

I think it's because I've always felt a little guilty of shunning the MM in favour of the ORPG. But when I was forced into grouping certain sections (Book 1:Othrongroth, anyone?!), it actually made the game feel more dynamic and "alive". These little content bottle necks forced even reluctant soloers to bite the grouping bullet.

In a weird way I do miss the game forcing me to do the what i secretly know I should be doing, but would never (and now needn't ever) do by choice. The end result has, ironically for a soloer, left the game feeling even more sterile than before.

Still, it'll be Winter soon......

I never understood the "pay to win" moniker that occasionally gets attached to LotRO. How could buying items in the cash shop help me win?  Who am I be beating in such a PVE-centric game? Unless Turbine introduces a new mechanic whereby NPCs won't talk to anyone who isn't dressed right, I think I'll be okay thanks.

Personally, I'm more than happy to use the cash shop, and am well aware that what i'm buying is convenience. To echo what others have already said, there's nothing for sale that's going to make me a 'better' player than you. That's a quality you just can't buy!

Sounds Great!

Also, here's hoping that all of the under the hood tinkering (class updates, etc...) go a long way towards freshening up the whole leveling experience from 1-65 (as a serial Altoholic, this is where I spend most of my time!)

A great article that totally sums up how I feel about endgame. I never understood the rush to get to level cap. For me, the journey is paramount (hence the fact that I play LotRO). However,  I also revisited WoW post Cataclysm, and agree that the leveling is now WAY too fast.

Azeroth is such a beautifully realised creation, and it's a shame that you are propelled through it at such a vast rate of knots, that you can barely catch your breath. I think developers expect you to want to reach endgame and raid the days away ASAP. Also, it seems that you're almost universally looked down on by other players at level cap in their shiny new amour sets (until a new update distracts them by dropping the next proverbial carrot-on-a-stick in front of their eyes).

For those that enjoy that style of content, I say "fair play to you. If that's the way you want to enjoy your endgame, have a blast!!". I just don't see why the only "alternative" has to be leveling "alternatives" (in LotRO i'm on Alt No. 10 BTW!).  

On the subject of LotRO, It's worrying that Turbine seems to be following Blizzards model of producting increasingly engame-centric content (Cataclysm, not withstanding). I don't have any issue when updates makes the game "longer" (ie new zones, level cap increase etc.), but at the moment all they seem to do is to make the endgame content "wider" (most of which becomes almost totally obsolete as soon as the level cap is moved again - "Rift, anyone"?). I just wish Turbine would devoted more time to making the whole journey wider. Let's have new low and mid-level zones, alternative paths to explore (literally and figuratively), and a slower-paced, leveling experience full of memorable moments worth savoring.

Why must us reluctant Alt-oholics put up with being the Raiders down-trodden and forgotten half-brother? I think there are far more of us than the developers realise, it's just that we are more discerning and not placated by shiny new baubles du jour!

Originally posted by raiko22

with all due repect;

they never sold out.. they started off as a business and they still are a business

 Amen to that.

I wish LoTRO all the best. I've been there most of those 4 years, and by and large i've enjoyed the direction the game has gone in (lifetime subbing, by chance, the day before F2P was announced was the best £75  i've ever spent on gaming).

Some people complain that "Turbine are ruining MY game by treating it like a business", but it's precisely because they treat THEIR game like a business that it has endured.  I wish them all the best and hope their continued creative skill and business savvy allows this wonderful game to florish for another 4 years, and beyond.

Onwards, to Isengard.....

Originally posted by Jammaslam

hmm reply didnt show up, but in response to the text I quoted above, it is due out March 21st

 

 Make that around June 21st for us EU players. One day Codemasters will actually deliver on time  *sigh*

This update sounds great. I've always loved Everdim and it's nice to see the Oatbarton/Dwaling  and Annuminas areas blended in to make a smoother leveling experience. Also having it at Lvl 30-40 gives a real alternative to leveling in North Downs or Trollshaws.

Being led from hub to hub has never been an issue. To me, it gives a meaningful sense of "progression" especially if there is a good overarching storyline to go with it. It's much better than having the quests appear to just run out.

I just hope they've kept in the "a striking absence of boars" quest. I remember looking everywhere for them the first time i visited Osd Forod!

Originally posted by wkyfam

As with so many things in games, the value of LOTRO's free model (and several other games' attempts), is dependent upon the manner in which you play.  I have played a number of MMOs over the years, and in the past was able to invest a considerable amount of time in playing.  In those days, I would play many hours a week and thus, the $15/month subscription rate was feasible.  However, now that I am married and a father, I still enjoy gaming, but the amount of time that I can devote to such endeavors has diminished considerably.  Therefore, at this point in my gaming life, I might be able to play only a few hours a week.  For this scenario, paying the standard $15/month subscription makes less sense for me.  However, being able to buy adventure packs and thereby quest through zones at a pace that is more accomodating to my schedule, makes more fiscal sense for me. 

That being said, I completely agree with Mr. Tingle that, were a person playing LOTRO with any considerable amount of pace, the purchasing of adventure packs and other items/features from the store makes less and less sense, and subsequently it may make more sense for a number of players to simply opt for the standard subscription plan.  Regardless of ones play style and ability to invest time, as Adam mentions, the free-to-play plan offered by LOTRO is one that allows a player to sample a considerable amount of content in order to make a good decision as to how best to approach paying for content, should that player choose to continue playing beyond the starter zones and the level 20 barrier.

 

I think this is the most common-sense comment I've ever read about LotRO's F2P model. I doff my cap to you Sir!

For me, it would have to be:

1. Improve the graphics engine - Don't get me wrong LotRO is still a pretty game, but, is it right in this day and age to have crappy 90's era landscape textures that "ping" into modern ones as you ride along? And it's not just distant mountains doing that. Occasionally you will get these "quality divides" happening right in front of you, which really pulls you out of the moment.

2a. Expand the game sideways, not just forwards - This is something we got a lot of initially (Everdim/Forochel), but now the focus is purely on pushing forward the epic storyline, with all the new zones supporting that. Now me, I love alts, i'm a true Altaholic. What i'd like to see is a more varied progression path in the low/mid level range, not just a concetration of new high-level areas. Where are the South Farthings, Tower Hills, The Grey Havens and the rest of the Blue Mountains? (to name but a few). Surely there are countless stories that could be told if these zones were made real. With the advent of F2P and the injection of low level players to the game, surely it's time for more than just a "revamp" of the existing starter/low level areas.  I want to roam the WHOLE of Middle Earth, which brings me to....

2b. Middle Earth seems well, small - This has bugged me since beta: why does the village of Bree appear to be one of the largest settlements in Middle Earth? It's very noticable that the scale of Middle Earth has been warped like the features on a characture. Re-sizing zones is unfeasable, so again, if the developers could flesh out the low/mid level part of the game with new zones, that would do a great deal towards making Middle Earth feel just that little bit bigger.

3. A new race - I put this one in, but for the life of me, I struggle to think of a race that would fit. The last thing this game needs is a race of 'noble' Goblins or Ents running around the Shire carrying Pies! The only way I could see this working is to spilt up the "Man" race into a number sub ethnicities (ie. Men of Bree/Gondor/Rohan/Dale etc) with their own starting areas. Not new races as such then, but at least a bit of variety.

I could go on, but in the spirit of the OPs original header, I'll stop there!

Originally posted by JeroKane

Originally posted by SIMPLEMAN619

DONT WASTE YOUR TIME OR MONEY (unless you're rich..). I'm quitting lotro today, and this is why:

I was told originally that lotro had standards for game-play... that when the game first started out, it took 5 gold and level 35 just to buy a horse... then they started f2p, with optional content expansion packs from turbine points that you purchase in bundles (my route), AS WELL AS exp buffs for real money... Then came the ability to buy gold with real money... then,  just yesterday, a new interface with even more optional "turbine point" purchases emerged, such as ingredient packs for crafting. what this boiles down to is ONE CAN ALMOST BUY A PRE-LOADED TOON NOW, if you're willing to dish out a few $50s.. This is an UNFAIR ADVANTAGE to those with the $$$. I say STEAR CLEAR OF LOTRO, and invest in a game with a sence of fareness.

 

I was really shocked and dissapointed at this too tho. This game is becoming more and more Pay 2 Win (like the standard crap Asian F2P games already out there) with each and every update.

It already started when they added those Morale / Power pots to the store. Which lots of people said no big deal. Just a one time thing.

Well.... just with all the stat tomes right? No big deal as they drop in the game.  Only forgetting that the droprate is so ridiculously low, that you have a bigger chance winning the lottery than finding those tomes.

And now you can just max out crafting solely via the store with the latest update. LMAO.  Can't get any more stupid and more money grabbing than this.

I guess people will now finally start discovering the true colors of the "Free 2 Play" concept.

And how Warner Bros. is using Turbine as yet another Corporate cash cow to enrich their empire.

As this is what you get, when Game Studios are being bought up by these huge Emperium Corporations, that know "jack" about games and only care about increasing their capital as much as possible, with as little effort as possible.

 

 I don't get this Pay 2 Win nonsense. Pay 2 win against who? Those people that ganked you all the time?, no, wait - there's no open world PVP (outside of one zone). Forgive me if i'm wrong, but isn't it the environment that's supposed to be getting annoyed (and shafted), after all it's a PVE game. So what's left? am i supposed to be jealous of the toon with a nicer looking cloak than mine?

Maybe it's all about the effort us vets have put in leveling? I remember when i was a lad, i had to get up at the crack of dawn and go off to kill 240 worms in Forochel in order to gain some deed or other, and NOW this young pups come along with their "Turbine Points" and do it in half the time - It's an OUTRAGE i tells ya!

As for Lotro being a cash cow - I bloody well hope so. Surely that was the point of developing the game in the first place. That's why Turbine isn't a registered charity ("Help the Hobbits" or something). Personally I hope Turbine, Warner, Codemasters and everyone else involved in this game make a whole heap of cash. They can skim a fat slice off the top for themselves and plow the rest into developing new content. What do i care? I'm a lifetime subber, i've already taken that leap of faith, and put my money where my mouth is. I also get FREE Turbine Points to buy that nice looking cloak too!

My advice to anyone who doesn't like where this "cash cow" is heading and is thinking of quitting - Maybe you're right, and it is time you found a new pasture to graze in.

Even though i do love this game, do i love every single change that Turbine has made? No. But i'll never lose sight of the fact that it's their game. They have the right to do what ever they like to it. I have faith that they will make more right choices than wrong ones, but if that faith is misplaced, I have the right to walk away.

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

Pay as you go is just that, pay as you go. It should really only be used by 3 types of people. 1) Those that want to check out the game but aren't ready to make an investment in it. 2) Those who are very very casual and don't have much time to play, so they play for an hour here and there and drop in money when they need something. 3) The super cheap who think they should never have to pay for anything and are willing to grind out Turbine points/run everywhere since they don't want to pay for swift travel.

 

You are NOT supposed to have all the benefits as those who sub unless you pay a significant amount of money, simple as that. If you want swift travel then keep paying for it or sub. Subscription is the smart choice and as people have said on MMORPG a million times, it is about the same cost as going to the movies ONCE in an entire month.

A spot on assessment. I couldn't have put it better myself!

Personally, I think PayG, is a better description of the payment model than F2P. It amazes me how many people still seem disappointed that the whole game is either "not free", or that "there's restrictions".

Also, if you do find yourself enjoying the game, and are playing it on a regular basis, then subscribing should be a no-brainer.

Reading this thread has really cheered me up. As a Lifetime subber on Evernight in Europe I was more than a little annoyed about Codemasters delayed F2P launch, but now I see it as an (unintentional) stroke of genius - Let the hordes of impatient gamers roll on US servers, clog them up (thus sorting out the ones who are truly commited enough to stand the wait, from the merely curious), and once Europe comes online, only the commited ones will re-roll over here (after all, "those US servers were way too busy").

It's the perfect filter system.

Gotta Love Codemasters!

Listening to a lot of the whinner here you'd be forgiven for thinking that Bioware had been commissioned to supply a bespoke game, taylor-made to fit their exact specifications.

I for one, am just happy that the game is coming out at all, because i know that:

a) It's being crafted with a lot of love, by designers who actually care about the subject matter.

b) Bioware are hands down the best story-tellers in the gaming industry.

and,

c) It's freekin' Star Wars. It's a universe burned into our collective psychi.

All this talk of "this game is gonna suck, cos it won't have X or Y feature" really saddens me. This game was not made with YOUR requirements in mind. Get over it.

This is Bioware's creation. It's their game.

Play it, or don't play it. It's a simple as that.

I for one, can't wait to set foot in their universe, because my heart tells me it's gonna be an amazing adventure.

Great Article, very entertaining. I can definitely see the makings of a good sitcom here.

However, you do kind of paint the average MMO gamer as a bit of a 'tool'. But that's okay. By looking at some of the comments here, i feel you may be on to something. Let's face it, we'll never be satisfied !

To be honest the only reason I join a guild is to stop all the 'hey mister, join my guild?' spam in the chat channel.

I've currently got several level-capped toons hidden away inside a raiding guild somewhere.

I've no interest in raiding (and very little in grouping). If anyone questions that (which they haven't), i'd just move on, no hard feelings.

I guess it's like a symbiotic relationship - I get peace and quiet to carry on my solo endeavours, and they get a couple more toons to make their guild look busier.

I never need help, nor do i offer it, outside of advice (which has a minimal impact on my personal goals for that session).

As long as i say 'Hi' & 'Bye' when other members come and go. That seems to suffice. Everything is very civilized.

Some may view this as a rather 'sad' existence, but this is how i choose to enjoy an MMO, and for me, it works rather well.

I'm a great believer that everything in game that doesn't form part of the main questing experience should have some tangible benefit or purpose that can be reflected in the main game. Skirmishes do that wonderfully, with the ability to purchase useful items with your hard earned (or exploited) skirmish marks.

In my experience, there are some areas that fail to offer a proportional reward for your time sunk into them:

Housing - I think they should be a visual representation of your progress through Middle Earth, almost like your own personal Bag End. They need far more furniture/item slots, and more freedom to place them, so that you can accommodate all of the trinkets and souvenirs that should be available throughout the game. How about the ability to turn screen shots into paintings that can hang on the wall (minus the interface of course). I'm also a bit of a completionist and it annoys me that even if i were to invest a lot of time into fishing, i would not be able to display all of my fishing trophies, and speaking of fishing....

Hobbies - We need a complete overhall of fishing. Not the mechanics of it, but again, more tangible rewards, better than a fish trophy (that you won't have enough room to display in your house anyway) or a few fish to cook with. How about the chance to pull up something random and useful from the murky depths (it worked for Smeagol!). The only time fishing works is during the festivals and only because there is a goal and purpose to it. Let's also have some new hobbies, maybe something like animal trapping (all those critters running around have got to be useful for something - It could be like Pokemon - Gotta catch 'em all!!). And speaking of critters....

Critter Play - I'll admit it was kind of fun to be a chicken for about 10 minutes, but the amount of time you'd need to invest to complete that questline is just crazy (all to get a snazzy cloak with a chicken on it). If they can make the rewards fit the time investment, i'd gladly sink my time into other critters plays as well, (wasn't there talk of being a rat in Moria? or maybe i just dreamt it!).

I'm not against time sinks in MMOs, but there must be a proportional reward at the end of it.