Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Chram

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Wololo

 

I underlined the part that you obviously missed. I say obviously because you didn't comprehend that he was insinuating that one plays for FUN and not for 'No reason'.

He was not trying to say that you actually go to school or a job for no reason, but just the opposite.

And as I stated what I did in EVE wasn't fun...not even remotely. Explain as a small example how you had fun mining asteroids? Or was I doing that wrong too (though how on earth you can do it wrong when you just have to set auto orbit, and click the button to mine is beyond me)?

Unlike school or work, there are no additional perks to playing EVE if you don't find the game fun. Point being, school and work can be fun but most certainly do have perks, with EVE there are no perks if you are not having fun.

And sorry but the whole "you are not playing the game right" crap is way too funny if not mostly intended as an insult. So when used I simple read "can't think of anything remotely close to a suitable rebuttal".

So if you are not having fun mining, try finding something else which actually is fun for you, there is a myriad things to do. Running missions and mining ore is only a miniscule part of possible EVE activities. I have never mined anything besides in tutorials and never missioned past the first few weeks and yet I am having fun all these years.

Like what? ...not that I actually care, had the game for a month, got bored in a week and have tried to go back 4 times now with the same result...wish I was playing something more fun...so I do.

The reason you are getting bored may be that you are doing the same thing over and over again, each time being surprised that it is still boring. Just saying.

Originally posted by Deznts

Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

 What's wrong with investing a large amount of money into a company?

I'll tell you what's wrong with this founder style investing...

With traditional investment style, the investors reap profit rewards when game is published. ROI, return over investment.

With founder style investment, investors give money and never share in the profit.

If you can't see the problem with this, I need investors for my game called "I'm unemployed, I need food and my dentist charges a killing". I accept Paypal

I indeed fail to see "the problem". The difference is, I won't have any fun after paying for your dentist's bill.

It's simple. Bunch of guys, mostly hardcore Diablo II vets with an ARPG itch they couldn't quite scratch with Titan Quest, Sacred etc., agreed they would really like to experience a spiritual successor to their favourite game. They chose a bunch of skilled designers and programmers among themselves and pooled some money together to make the game possible, everyone adding what he can. That's basically how the game was made. Then they launched closed beta and more people decided that the game was indeed fun and that they would like to make it better (by paying for it's development). And so people bought the supporter packages, mostly in the 10$ - 20$ range, but some bought the 100$ or 150$  ones and then someone who really loved the game and wanted to see it improved paid the 1000$ diamond packages.

The game launched and did get better. More people wanted it to get even larger and more awesome. But there is only so much you can buy in the store, and cosmetic effects and pets aren't really that enticing. So now GGG is giving the loyal players the opportunity to further support the development - it is clearly labelled and universally understood as such.

It has nothing to do with an investment. 

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Wololo

 

I underlined the part that you obviously missed. I say obviously because you didn't comprehend that he was insinuating that one plays for FUN and not for 'No reason'.

He was not trying to say that you actually go to school or a job for no reason, but just the opposite.

And as I stated what I did in EVE wasn't fun...not even remotely. Explain as a small example how you had fun mining asteroids? Or was I doing that wrong too (though how on earth you can do it wrong when you just have to set auto orbit, and click the button to mine is beyond me)?

Unlike school or work, there are no additional perks to playing EVE if you don't find the game fun. Point being, school and work can be fun but most certainly do have perks, with EVE there are no perks if you are not having fun.

And sorry but the whole "you are not playing the game right" crap is way too funny if not mostly intended as an insult. So when used I simple read "can't think of anything remotely close to a suitable rebuttal".

So if you are not having fun mining, try finding something else which actually is fun for you, there is a myriad things to do. Running missions and mining ore is only a miniscule part of possible EVE activities. I have never mined anything besides in tutorials and never missioned past the first few weeks and yet I am having fun all these years.

Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

Originally posted by Robokapp

Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
 You know Robo, there's more to a game than just squatting at max level.

I don't know what you mean but I agree.

 Usually getting to max level means the end of your adventure. So you'll most likely end up just sitting there doing nothing at that point. MMO's are about the journey to max level (at least they use to be). Now many people believe the only part of the games that's worth any at all is the end game. So developers just stream-line the process to get people to the end. Which in the end just hurts the game overall.

I wholeheartedly agree. However, none of that applies to EVE.

There is no "end game", "max level" in EVE. Day one rookie can jump into 0.0 and be very successful and useful. He can actually do most in things in EVE very fast, if he is smart enough. People change playstyles all the time, everywhere. 

The game is currently at it's record subscriber and activity numbers. The resources in 0.0 have just now been reshuffled and all the major powers are going to war, this will be one bloody summer. Wormholers are killing each other with their ever more expensive fleets. Lowsec sees an amount of ship explosions it hasn't seen in ages. Militias are murdering each other in faction warfare space. Jita is overflowing with people. The industry guys are rubbing hands and making a profit, as always.

I don't know how you came to the "I believe EVE is coming to an end" statement, but you may want to reconsider.

Originally posted by Sybnal

i have the same relationship with EVE.  Beta, brief stint for a couple months in 08 and I just re-subbed a few days ago.  There is just something about the game that makes me want to check it out every once in awhile.

I don't feel the same as the OP though. Although the skill system does make a noob want to cry  tears of blood and despair, you can still have fun along the way.  None of the mechanics frustrate me that much either.  But then again, I love learning curves in games, finding out how things work is half the fun for me.

  I find EVE very immersive.  It's got great atmosphere and graphics.   Even the music gives you that lonely desolate feeling of being the in middle of @#$%ing nowhere..lol.  It does tend to come off as a VERY slow paced game, but I'm older now, I don't mind that.

I have yet to make it to 0.0 space, or join a good corp and supposedly that's where the real game is.  The biggest problem I have with EVE is convincing any of my friends to play it with me.  It's just too much information for their tiny little minds to handle I guess :P

I enjoy 0.0 a lot, but it is far from being the only "real game" there is. It's good to try it at one point of one's eve career, as with most other things. Ultimately, I feel it's more about the people you fly with than the specific circumstances of one's environment. With a good tight knit group which already are friends or are becoming friends through the game, mostly everywhere/everything is enjoyable.

Originally posted by Lerxst

Originally posted by Muke

Originally posted by Lerxst

Seems pointless to play a game where 90% of your in-game work is done while you're logged off.  A skill may take 4 days to train and THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO to change that regardless of missions and amount of play time invested.

 

"Nothing to do while you are training"

 

Guess what, I have played EVE since beta and am still playing and jeez, I am learning a skill right now!

So while you are training a skill you can:

-play the game with the skills you already have

-socialize

-do missions

-mine

-pvp

-trade

-haul

-learn the game

 

Yep, there is nothing to do while learning skills except playing the game, what a shame.

Yes, EVE is different then WOW where you can go from noob lvl 1 to lvl 90 geared pvp/pve uber killing machine in 2 days.

Guess this game is too difficult for you.

 

 

EVE is nothing but difficulty wrapped up in a skin of difficulty, layered with a shell of difficulty for the sake of saying it's "difficult".

 

 "Easy to learn, difficult to master"  You've heard that phrase? It's the motto of any good game.  Apparently the developers of EVE haven't figured it out though.  Chess, for instance is easy to learn - Pawns move straight, Bishops move diagonally, etc.  Yet, mastering Chess can take a lifetime.

 

EVE is nothing but a bunch of menus you need to click on in the right order in order to produce the results you want.  Fun?  No.  Difficult?  Moderately.  Tedious?  Yes.

 

Then, when you get fed up with watching you ship fire a laser at an asteroid for 15 minutes at a time, or autoplioting through a bunch of stargates for 20 minutes between stations and decide to advance your character, the game gives you a huge smack upside the head when you realize you need to wait 4 days for the skills you need in order to advance, to finish training.  So you get stuck doing all of that same tedious crap you did to get to where you were, for another 4 days in a row with no way to escape the tedium.

 

Show me where the fun is in any of this.

Mining is tedius. It is a low interaction low profit activity by design, plenty of people enjoy it that way (I don't), but you are in no way forced to do it. 

As to combat - there is plenty of depth, but the actual controls are pretty simple - approach, orbit, double click into space to change direction, manage your ship mods. Simple, eh? Yet there are vast differences between individual skills (meant behind the keyboard skills) of pilots, this is a fact. "Easy to learn, difficult to master" perhaps?

As to the fun part - I can't tell you with which activity you will have fun with, you have to find that out for yourself. There are people who jumped into pvp in day one and were successful. There were people that started getting into markets on day one and now they won't have to pay for the game ever again. There is a massive number of options and the best thing about it is, you don't have to grind anything to advance your character and you can enjoy the game instead.

Originally posted by Malcanis

Originally posted by mCalvert

Originally posted by Malcanis

Originally posted by mCalvert

Originally posted by Malcanis

Originally posted by mCalvert
The thing that would make me come back is more action. Not strategy, but action. I want to steer my ship, aim and shoot stuff. I want to walk around inside a ship or station, engage in ground combat like DUST, walk around on a planet. Im not sure this is possible in EVE though, without pissing off the core players.

 

It's not that it would "piss off" the core players - most of us would probably love it (although in my experience, there's always someone who will complain about any change), it's that it would need a total redesign of the game engine.

EVE operates at 1 "tick" per second. Although your client fills in the gaps and smooths things out, the server only actually changes things once per second. This would need to be dozens of times faster to support the gameplay you're after, and the server hardware and internet infrastructure just doesn't exist.

Well that's what I mean. The changes necessary to implement some action would piss off core people who enjoy the more RTS style of combat that EVE has.

 

Well in the sense that EVE would need to become an instanced 16v16 combat sim yes, I suppose.

I would hope they could find a way to make it open pvp.

That "way" would be fairly simple: simply provide servers that are a few hundred times more powerful than what we can get now, and make sure that gigabit connections are the accepted standard for internet connections, and CCP can get right on it.

I'll just go get a sandwich while you sort that out.

I don't think processing power / internet bandwith are even the main bottlenecks. Getting 32 players in a multiplayer arena synced is one thing and is quite difficult, but getting 2000 players synced for the purposes of a twitch gameplay is pure nightmare. Maybe doable in a perfect world when everyone is sitting on a grade-A cable with 10ms ping to the cluster. Not doable in a real world of 200+ms pings from all across the globe. 

Originally posted by chaintm

Will say it till my dying breath..

 

Revamp the skill system so it isn't time paid = skill set.

 

Allow people to actual advance in the game on skills set by doing missions and more. Put the power of the advancments into players hands. Stop making it "you have been in X amount of days you get X amount of skill points"... sure there are some ways (SOME) that allow you to advance, but most if all is still "wait a week a month or insert crappy time line" to advance to a point where it's fun.

The vets will say "many have gone in as new started fine in competing and doing pretty well" , here's a news flash , Players don't want to do well, they want to do great things!

However every vet in the game does not like this idea, why? think about it. Anywho they will never do this till there is basicly no population left, but in any stance at least the population there currently likes the game "as is".

Your way of SP progression sounds excrutiatingly boring. In the current system, I can have fun from the very beginning. Train some skills while finishing tutorials and then I can immediately hop into RvB, faction warfare, play the markets etc. etc., myriads of possibilities. Under your system, I would be forced to grind SP, a thing that would become boring very, very fast. That's why the vets don't like the idea, they like to have fun and not feel forced to do anything. Shocking, I know.

Also, if everyone could do great things, guaranteed, then those things wouldn't really be great, would they?

Originally posted by sudo

Hello, dear eve players.

A simple question really. Last time I gave EVE a try, it was full of racists and I saw everybody use "Jew" as a "general-use-bad-word" in both local, alliance and corp chat  (I am part of a big alliance). When I tried politely asking for explanation why they are using this word in a bad manner, which is I obviously find offensive, nobody never answered. Sadly, I felt forced to quit even though I did like the game a lot (it was almost a year ago) this time around.

I would love to know if you still see people throwing "Jew" everywhere like a curse word or did things change for the better?

Thanks!

I feel this is linked mainly to the CFC culture (Goons in particular), from where it is sadly somewhat proliferating to other places. Same as the n****r word in PL. Outside of those groups though, the usage is fairly limited I think. 

Also, I think I have never heard it deliberately being used in a racist manner. English sadly doesn't have good synonyms for the stuff the word has come to describe in EVE, so using it is the minimal resistance path nowadays. It still has to go obviously.

Originally posted by Malcanis

It never fails to fascinate and amuse me just how many people profess to passionately loathe or despise EVE, to the extent that they read the EVE forum here and even post in it about how much they hate the kind of game EVE is. Does this happen in other game forums here too, or is it an EVE thing?

It happens in other game sections too. Then you think this behaviour is confined to mmorpg.com. Nope, it happens on Massively and other sites as well. Then you think it's confined to the mmorpgs in general. Nope, there are people who lurk and post on forums solely for the purpose of bashing a single player game some other people are playing. Then you think this is confined just to gaming in general. Nope, ...

And you have my vote. (In the super unlikely scenario you would actually need it and it wouldn't get transfered.) By the way, will you be posting some recommendations regarding other candidates? As in, who you see yourself being able to comfortably work with.

Originally posted by korriken

I used to play eve. One thing I always hated was how often Goonswarm would make victims out of ordinary people, and given how supermassive they were, there wasn't a damned thing you could do about it.

you piss off a higher up in goonswarm? your eve career was pretty much over if they decided they wanted you gone. they could afford to keep mercs on you until you finally gave up in frustration and/or made a new account and retired your old one.

and then, there was magic in the air, CCP had released a new war dec feature that would allow you to assist defenders in a war. suddenly the playerbase had turned on Goonswarm and high sec was a VERY hostile environment for them to operate in and it was taking a bite out of their profits as their haulers were being popped and looted by ordinary players.

the leaders of Goonswarm cried and the devs were insanely quick to move in and 'fix' this 'problem' neutering the playerbase's uprising and ensuring Goonswarm could go back to doing what they do best, making the playerbase miserable.

After that, I unsubbed, docked my ship, and refused to give CCP another penny of my money.

I loved this game, but I simply cannot bring myself to play it anymore, given how heavily CCP panders to the single largest alliance in the game.

Disclaimer: I am red to Goons and I shoot them from time to time.

What you just wrote is an extremely selective point of view that paints a picture that is just not true.

• Goons are not the biggest alliance in the game. Test is.
• Goons couldn't care less about high sec safety. Any competent high - null logistics are done using neutral alts. Any industry is done on neutral alts. The leadership / membership found the whole matter funny, if they even noticed.
• The change was done to protect small entities, who wanted to go on 1v1 on some other entity their size and instead got dogpiled on by the whole universe. Notice that they had it significantly harder than an entity of Goonswarm's size.
• Finally, EVE is a game of consequences. If you manage to really piss off someone of that size / capabilities, it comes to reason they should be able to make your life difficult if they really want to. If you don't like it, you can always fit a gun, find some like minded folks (it's not like there is a shortage of you) and come shoot them. But that would require some actual effort.

Skillpoints are largely irrelevant. But it takes some actual pew pew experience to realize that.

And to those wanting a PvE switch/server - just no. No items would get destroyed, industry would die, any reward you receive from anything would be worthless. There would have to be introduced some sort of decay mechanic - ie. It would be a completely different game.

And to the OP - I actually think that expanding the WiS aspect just a little bit would go a long way (even though I love my FiS as much as the next guy). If they would allow even small instances (N <10) of the most basic avatar-avatar interaction, no content needed, aside from maybe a poker game for isk. Just to enable a basic socializing, to get random people talking to each other. Maybe they would find they have some things in common, would found a corp and take it from there. I think it would add an additional social hook.

Originally posted by Malacth

Originally posted by Sukiyaki

Originally posted by Malacth

Originally posted by Lovely_Laly

 

---

Originally posted by Malacth
Popular in terms of western players players -

 

 

1.) World of Warcraft (9+ million active players.)

2.) Guild (2+ million active players.)

3.) Eve (500k+ active players.)

4.) Rift (100k+ active players.)

5.) The Secret World (50k+ players.)

 

I've only bothered to mention games I actually like/play, but that's probably very similar to the actual list anyway.

---

 

sorry to asking: but how do you know how many players are active at GW2? I think this game is over hype again and show wrong statistic, as to me 2 mil copies sold is not = 2 mil of active users.

Well it's sold 3+ million copies, and growing in sales every month, so I'm assuming it's around the 2million active players mark, maybe 1-2million, but still no less than 1million active players, my guess though is very close to 2million. (by active I mean someone who has played their account in the last month.)

Maybe you should replace the "western" with "global", because otherwise your numbers are complete nonsense in case of WoW and EvE. But then again in a global context TSW or Rift wouldnt even make it into this list. Maybe not even EvE. And add "or so I wildly guess" behind the Rift, GW2 and TSW numbers to prevent someone might misunderstand your charts as credible data.

 

I'll agree with WoW, Eve and Rift. 

...

Define "western". EVE only has two shards, one chinese and one for everyone else. Some guesses estimate the split to be 1(china) : 4 (world), no hard numbers are known though. The majority of players from the "world" server come from NA and EU, but we also have a very sizeable Aussie minority (western?), Brazil minority (western?), Japan minority (western?) etc.

(EDIT: And ofc I forgot our (also extremely sizeable) everred RUSRUS comrades. ;)

Originally posted by Malcanis

Originally posted by agriffin85

Originally posted by Ballsout
I got bored last time I subbed. 

 

The way I see it, Eve is a unique game in that you either get hooked or you don't, and there really is no in-between or second chances.  I've tried playing it multiple times because it looks like so much fun in theory but I get bored a couple weeks in every time.

IMO if you got bored with it before then it's not for you, the cycle will repeate itself unless something is different for you (eg. you have a few friend that play).

 

EVE is all about second chances. It's just that those second chances aren't free.

These very forums are replete with posts from various people, all along the lines of "I had to try EVE 3/4/5/6/28 times before it clicked for me".

In most cases, that means finding a decent bunch of guys to fly with.

Originally posted by desdecardo

Wish I had known about this.  Now I feel like my pledge has gone to a game that will flail just above failure like Eve.  Money wasted.  Perma Death = Failure in MMOs and RPGs.  It wont succed once people know about this.  All it takes is one epic failure and the game gets a fail amongst the mass of gammers out there.  So long Star Citizen and thanks for all the fish, before the fish have even been handed out.

 

Its not a successful format for MMOs and gets changed the moment developers realize that any form of perma death = game failure.  Its why Eve never took off.  Im sure Star Citizen will change this garbage before launch.  Otherwise it will fail and people will be upset that they wasted money on funding a developer that doesnt know MMOs or RPGs or Space games period.

I would be interested of your definition of "failure like Eve" and "not taking off". Eve currently has in the realm of 400k paying subscribers and is still growing each year, 10 years in a row now. Care to point any other game that managed to fail similary?

Also, PvP without consequences is pointless. Many people are addicted to PvP in Eve because it gives them chills and shaky hands - an adrenaline rush. For that to happen you have to feel like you are putting something on the line.

Originally posted by Malcanis

Originally posted by inzane3

One of the best things about EVE online is the PvP, but what ruins it for me is the D-scan. It's like having to solve a puzzle in the midst of combat! it ruins the pace of the fight. I get it, you need to find out where he headed, but surely it can be a lot easier! Guessing whether he went to that asteroid belt or that planet is just ridiculous!

I know we can use combat probes, but wth man that takes too long as well! If it wasn't for those 2 things the combat in EVE would be more fast paced and exciting. That is the only reason why I am not re-subbing to EVE Online. Everything else is just gorgeous, I can even look past the grinding missions and what not. :(

 

/rant over

Agreed. The DSCAN is basically a "To do: put in a scanner" placeholder that CCP haven't really updated for a decade.

So many things like that, sigh... 

But ye, even putting a tiny auto-update checkbox somewhere would go a really long way. It would not be "dumbing down" the gameplay imho, it would just stop introducing a carpal tunnel for every wormholer and low/null sec mission runner there is.

And to the OP - this particular use doesn't bother me that much. When your target already managed to disengage, you have to quickly take a guess and warp immediately anyway or he is gone forever, assuming he has at least a basal level knowledge about the game.