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All Posts by Quizzical

All Posts by Quizzical

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13534 posts found
Originally posted by Jemcrystal
What's 4k?  What does it have to do with gaming?

4K is shorthand for the monitor resolution 3840x2160.

Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Quizzical

You are confused in many ways.

First, video decoding is generally done on the GPU, not the CPU.  The CPU load should typically be minimal for video decoding.

You seem more confused than he is, the 4k video is heavily taxing the CPU.

Only if the video decode block on the GPU can't handle it.

It's going to tax every single CPU. Do the test, run in 4k, do CTRL-ALT-DEL and check your CPU. It's going to be taxed heavily.

That's the decoding on the CPU.

People severely overestimate what is being hardware accelerated, it's less than you think.

Well of course it's not going to use the video decode block on my video card.  I bought my video card in 2009, back when 4K was a long way off and any sort of DisplayPort at all was still so new that virtually no monitors used it.

But offloading 4K video decode to GPUs is coming, if it's not here already.  It takes time for the industry to coalesce around standards of exactly how the encoding will be done, and then after that, for GPU vendors to implement it in silicon.  I'm not sure how far along that process is, but it's going to finish eventually.

Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Quizzical

You are confused in many ways.

First, video decoding is generally done on the GPU, not the CPU.  The CPU load should typically be minimal for video decoding.

You seem more confused than he is, the 4k video is heavily taxing the CPU.

Only if the video decode block on the GPU can't handle it.  Which, if he's having problems, it probably can't.  The solution is doing 4K video decode in a way that the GPU can handle it.  That can mean different codecs, different frame rates, and so forth.  It can also mean getting a newer GPU.  I'd be mildly surprised if certain recent GPUs can't do 4K video decode, and very surprised if upcoming ones from AMD and Nvidia can't do it.  But until the industry settles on which encodings and such everyone is going to use (which may have already happened, though I don't know if it has), 4K video decode will be hit and miss as you can't build a video decode block to handle everything that anyone could possibly try.

Of course, if you're using an older GPU such as Fermi or Northern Islands, then it's extremely unlikely that it can decode 4K video at all.  I'm not sure when AMD and Nvidia started adding 4K video support, though it's likely that it was around the time they started adding 4K monitor support.

You are confused in many ways.

First, video decoding is generally done on the GPU, not the CPU.  The CPU load should typically be minimal for video decoding.  Furthermore, it's not the entire GPU that is used for video decoding, but a dedicated video decode block.  Because video decoding needs don't vary wildly and the video decode block isn't that big, it's typically exactly the same decode block for all of the cards in a generation, from the top to the bottom.  Thus, if you get a GeForce GTX 650 or a GeForce GTX 780 Ti, you're probably getting exactly the same video decode block.

Clock speeds can affect its performance a bit, but outside of the very low end (e.g., phones tablets), you get about the same video decode performance no matter what card you get within a generation.  Indeed, I'd expect the GTX 650 to have a little better video decode performance than the GTX 780 Ti due to the higher clock speed, in spite of only offering about 15% as much performance for gaming.  But even if this is the case, there may or may not be any way to make that performance difference matter, even in synthetic benchmarks.

One thing about fixed function hardware blocks is that, if you give them exactly what they're expecting, performance can be awesome.  This is why it's possible to watch decent resolution videos on a cell phone that doesn't have 1% of the gaming GPU performance of a desktop gaming card.  But if you give them something slightly different from what they're expecting, they completely choke.  The video decode block in video cards is built to handle certain encodings at certain resolutions and frame rates.  If you give it one of the things it is built for, you'll get flawless video decode.  And if you give it something else, bad things can happen--ranging from degraded performance to being completely unable to use the decode block at all.


Increasing monitor resolution so that you have to render more pixels per frame does greatly increase the load on video cards.  But if you're just displaying the desktop, this means it goes from inconsequential to several times inconsequential, which is still pretty inconsequential.  The load in games varies wildly, too.  Anything that is playable on a lower end card at 1080p should be playable at the same settings (except the resolution) on a high end card with four times the performance at 4K.

But quadrupling the number of pixels to draw tends not to quadruple the load on hardware.  Most CPU side code doesn't care about the monitor resolution.  The only real exceptions are the bits of code that determine or let you change the resolution and some culling code to skip drawing things that are known to be off the screen in the current frame.

Even a lot of GPU code doesn't care about the monitor resolution.  There are five programmable pipeline stages in the modern APIs (six if you count compute shaders, but those can go anywhere, so I'll ignore them).  Four of those five stages neither know nor care what the monitor resolution is, but do the same work carrying out the same computations regardless of the resolution.  Higher resolutions may make them process extra data because less stuff gets culled as being obviously off the screen entirely, but they still have to do vastly more than 1/4 of the work of the higher resolution.  Only pixel/fragment shaders scale linearly with the monitor resolution.

But you know what else the load on pixel/fragment shaders scales with?  Anti-aliasing.  Running 1080p at 4x SSAA is the same load as running 4K with anti-aliasing off.  So if you play games at 1080p and 4x SSAA, exactly the same hardware is capable of rendering the same game at the same frame rates at 4K with no anti-aliasing.

Let's back up a bit.  What exactly do you have in the old computer you're looking to replace?

You seem to have a large enough budget that I really would get an SSD up front.  You want the OS and main programs installed on an SSD, and having to wipe and reinstall everything later is a pain.

Originally posted by nicename
Never had I found leveling as fun as SWTOR why won't other games follow this model? And yes I did hear of SWG which did something similar years ago.

This thread is so vague as to be nearly meaningless.  What is it about SWTOR's leveling model that you like and is different from most other MMORPGs?

The best engine for an MMO--or any other sort of game--is the one that is custom built for that particular game.  If game A built its own engine and game B built its own engine, even if you think game A's engine is better, trying to build game B on game A's engine would probably make game B a lot worse than using its own.
Originally posted by mrneurosis

Once you start charging people full amount to play or test the game you become open to criticism. call it 'crying ' if you will but players have all the right to cry after forking out the cash. Now if they were testing a free product that would be adifferent matter.

You have no reason to complain if you buy something and learn that it is exactly what it was promised that it would be.

For example, if I sell you a car with a clear warning that it needs a new engine, and you buy it knowing that, you have no right to complain that I deceived you if it really does need a new engine.  But if I tell you the car is in good working condition and needs nothing more than routine maintenance, and you buy it and learn that it needs a new engine and won't run at all until it gets one, then you can complain about fraud.

Returning to gaming, if I offer you alpha access to a game with the caveats that it's still a buggy mess, things are getting massive overhauls that rebalance everything, and it's all going to get wiped before the real launch, and you pay to play that, you have no right to complain that it is what you were told it was.  If I present it as a mostly finished product that only needs some minor tweaks, you pay to play, and it's a huge mess, then you can more reasonably complain.

A lot depends on how linear.  I don't have a problem with WoW-style quest hubs, where you go to this area around level 20 or so, then over here around 25, then over there around 30.

But I didn't like how Atlantica took basically all of the quests in the game and put them into a single, supremely long quest line.  It might actually be several quest lines with a strongly implied order and you're allowed to skip somewhere.  But most of the quests consist of, you talk to an NPC, he gives you a quest, you do it and turn it in, he gives you another quest, you do it and turn it in, he gives you another quest, and so forth, then eventually he sends you to go talk to someone else and repeat the process.  That got rather jarring.

There's also a question of, what if a quest is broken and incompletable? Does that mean you're shut off from the entire rest of the game?  Or at least the next 30 quests in the area?  Or does it mean you just skip that quest and do the rest? If one quest being broken means you can't do that one quest, or maybe can't do two or three follow-ups, that's fine.  If it shuts you out of questing in a large chunk of a zone, that's more of a problem.  Bugs happen.

It varies wildly by game because the business model varies wildly by game.  Some "free to play" item mall games are really subscription games with a free trial and primarily push a monthly fee for something that gives you most or all of the item mall stuff that matters.  I'd recommend treating those like a subscription game with a free trial:  plan on paying the subscription if you like the game, but nothing more.

Some games are pretty flagrantly pay to win, and turn into a contest where whoever pays the most wins.  The only real way to win such games is not to play.  If someone who pays $100/month has big advantages over someone who pays $50/month, you're definitely in this sort of pay to win territory and should disregard the game and move on.  I'm not saying you should be willing to pay $50/month; I am saying that if paying $50/month isn't enough to be competitive, there are serious problems with the game.

Some games basically ask you to pay for convenience.  If you don't pay, you'll have to spend a lot of time doing stupid stuff like running back and forth.  If you pay, you can warp or whatever and skip the stupid stuff.  For those games, count how much it would cost to pay for the convenience, decide whether you're willing to pay that, and if not, then just skip the game.  If so, pay it and have fun.

Some games let you do basically everything for free, but let you do it faster if you pay.  But even here, there are such wild differences in degrees as to really constitute differences in type.  Some games will be painfully grindy if you don't pay up.  Others let you progress at a decent rate without paying but let you pay to skip to instant max level or whatever.  You can play the latter for free just fine, but not so much the former.

Many games with item malls have both valuable items that they expect many people to buy, and also exorbitant items that they expect few to buy.  For example, I've been playing Neverwinter lately and paying $30 or so to get a rank 3 mount makes a huge difference.  But it's a one time fee to keep the account forever, and the mount is account-wide--including for your future characters that haven't yet been created.  You can also buy experience boosters to level one character all the way to the cap at double the normal rate for $100, but that's far less necessary because you level so fast without it.  Cryptic expects a lot of people to buy the mount, and few to buy the experience booster; the latter strikes me as mainly to give people who want to spend a lot of money on the game something to spend it on--and without unbalancing things for everyone else.  Someone who pays $15/month gets a lot closer in value to someone who pays $100/month than to someone who pays nothing.

I'd also like to point out that, if you like to play multiple characters, there's an enormous difference between account-wide item mall things and per-character item mall things.  If you want to play five characters, there's a huge difference between $10 per account per month to get what you want and $10 per character per month to get what you want.

Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by waynejr2

Look not everyone will fit every game.  Not everyone is willing to put a reasonable amount of effort trying to fit in. That isn't the games fault.  Every game should not have to fit every player.  It is up to the player to determine if the game fits for them.

Other than forcing certain game design changes (like solo content) not much to discuss here.  It either works or it doesn't.

but it is up to the dev to find an audience. If too few people are willing to suffer through the process of finding a group, and the devs want that audience, shouldn't the dev put in more solo content?

In fact, isn't it why the solo-ability trend is there? There are just not enough players who want to put in the effort .. and by definition, if few wants to do it, it is unreasonable (or at least undesirable).


If the problem is that it's too hard to find a group, then the solution is making it easier to find a group.  Guild Wars 2 made it pretty easy to get a group, for example.  But some games actively try to make it harder to find groups by making it so that most of the sets of players who might otherwise be inclined to group together can't or shouldn't because of game mechanics.

Originally posted by Superman0X
Originally posted by Enbysra
Originally posted by Superman0X
Originally posted by Quizzical

So vote with your wallet.  Pay for games you like, and not for games you don't.  Sounds simple, right?  But that's not what a lot of people do.

There are two primary points that I want to make:

1)  If you really like a game, you should pay something for it.

2)  If you don't like a game, you should pay nothing for it.

This is has happened... and what we are seeing are the results. The issue is that people do not understand that they can not vote AGAINST anything, only FOR something. Every dollar spent is a vote for whatever it was spent on. The market follows the money, and does not care about the people that have stopped spending.


This means that those who spend a lot of money on the current games are ensuring that we will see more games like what is already out there. Those who have chosen not to pay for the current games dont get any say in new games.

Good lord  Is THAT really the way these companies make all of their decisions? No wonder the MMORPG industry is ****ed. I mean, even logic tells us that lack of evidence, does not mean that something does not exist. If the MMORPG industry is only basing their decisions on where money is spent, they are very likely missing out on a LOT of $s.

This is how business in general works (gaming industry aside). 99.9% of the companies follow the money, and there is always that .01% that is willing to risk something new. However, the failure rate on these companies is very high. Much of the time, the company that takes the risk fails, but the money is there, so the other 99.9% jump in with clones.... and so it goes.


This basic cycle has been part of the free market economy for thousands of years, and has proven effective. It is not likely to change anytime soon.

If games that tried something new tended to be far more profitable than games that tried too hard to copy the competition, we'd see a lot more games try something new.

Originally posted by

I'm developing an indie Android MMORPG myself, so I'm on the "dark" side... I can present the other point of view here. 

I think the guys selling early-accesses and pre-orders usually have to do that to make a living. Game development is expensive (highly qualified developers don't want to work for free) and time consuming. 

I'm the only person developing my game, and I spent a lot of time on it. It is not easy to make a game, take care of the family and work in a regular job, so I would like to monetize the unfinished game, quit the job and then improve the game and develop new features. I have huge number of ideas designed and written down, and I have the skills to do that well. But...

Last year I spent over 1200 hours on it, but still, developing all the features I want in my free time would take me another 1 - 2 years. I don't think I can do that without trying to monetize the game. I'll probably release it in february / march with very limited features and hope to get some money and feedback to continue development.

To monetize the game, I think I'll display the ads and offer virtual currency for installing other free games. Is it pay for win? I don't know, but I think its the only way to get the money to make a living. If I earn some cash on this game, I'll be able to develop it faster.

Same with other developers: if they get the money early (for example in alpha or beta stage), they can keep working, they're more motivated, they can hire more people and develop the game faster.

Anyway, I agree 100% with the statement that if you like the game, you should support the developers with money. If you don't like the game, then find one that suits you more and support their developers so they can keep up their work and add more content.

I've been programming my own game as a solo project, so I very much know where you're coming from on this.

That said, insufficient funding is not the primary reason why most amateur game attempts fail.  Many people who would like to create a game lack the talent, training, experience, and/or dedication to pull it off.  Some rely too heavily on finding the right engine and libraries to do everything, resulting in a mediocre knock-off at best.  Some aim too high, and while capable of making a decent enough game, try to do something far beyond their capabilities and fail badly as a result.  Throw a lot more money at any of those projects and you end up with a lot of wasted money.

Furthermore, once you take money from customers, you're honor-bound to deliver what you've promised.  If you take money saying, I will give you game X in a year if you give me such and such amount of money today, you owe it to them to deliver that.  If it takes longer, maybe you deliver it late, but to take money and then not deliver the game you promised at all makes you a thief.  If you've spent 1200 hours on a game, you probably know that programming tends to take longer than you think.  What happens if you have enough funding to quit your job and spend a year "finishing" your game--not realizing that it will actually take three years?  As I've taken no money to develop my game, I can do whatever I want with it--including cancel it entirely--and no one is wronged by it.

Furthermore, there's an enormous moral difference between taking money from customers and taking money from investors.  If an investor gives you $1 million to develop a game and could make $10 million back if the game is a hit, or only get $100k back if the game flops, he's accepting a risk because he gets a reward in return.  That's very different from someone paying for a game now when he could just as well wait until later.

I believe that customers paying for games--as opposed to investors funding them in hopes of making a profit--ought to be a reward for a job well done for developers.  Meaning, pay for what the developers have already done so that you can enjoy the game as it is now, as opposed to paying for what one hopes that they might do in the future.  That's the only way to closely tie games being profitable to games being fun to play.

If you're spending money on the basis of hopes of future development, then polish doesn't matter, and it doesn't matter if the game is going to be a buggy mess with the servers unstable or down entirely half the time.  No one writes "game is unplayably buggy" as one of their design goals, so one can't judge a game's polish in the early stages.  Surely that can't be the ideal way to pick which developers get rewarded for their efforts.

Good luck with your game, and welcome to the forum.

Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by Alber_gamer
Basically, complaining about MMO's being Massive, Multiplayer and Online. Sounds to me like you're just looking for a different kind of genre to play. Like games where you can solo and compare your solo skills against other players online? I think that's the whole reason behind every modern single player game having achievements, so I'd recommend you to do that - play single player games.

The original poster's complaint isn't about needing other players.  It's about needing other players that are far too hard to find.  Sometimes it's because the needed players are of types where there just aren't enough to go around and fill all the places that they're needed.

Does he not have the ability to gather a group of like minded people with or without a in-game guild mechanic?

Let's take a simplified version of the problem that many MMORPGs present:

There are 100 players in group A.  There are 50 players in group B.  In order to progress, a player in either group must pair up with someone from the opposite group.  In particular, two players in group A cannot progress by grouping with each other.

So players go try to get groups.  50 players in group A find a match.  So does everyone in group B.  But the other 50 players in group A can't find a match.  Is this really a problem of those other 50 in group A not being social enough?  Really?

What ends up happening is that this works fine for the players in group B, but the players in group A spend half of their time looking for groups and only the other half actually playing the game after they've found a group.  Is it really so unreasonable for the players in group A--which, remember, is 2/3 of the playerbase--to be unhappy about this situation?

Originally posted by greenreen

I think you have to take into account that brains aren't full baked until sometimes age 25.

So, there will always be people breaking the rules of good consumer acts which you mention to encourage product replication. In youth, people care much more about what people around them think about what they are doing. This, I believe to be exploited by the games themselves because when one person buys it, everyone "following" buys it too. Showing off is also part of your identity as a youngster - is buying more showing off, sure - a cash shop bonus or an early access - still purchasing just to show off. I showed off as a kid - in the 80's we wore two pair of slouch socks and I can't tell you why, our feet weren't cold, it was just the thing to do.

There are some things we can't overcome because gaming is open to so many ages but I'm not claiming either that it's all the young people paying for cruddy game experiences just to have something to do. Nope, I think the gambling addicts are helping to decline the games too and once again that's impulse control and based on their brain. In there too are the hoarders - you think they don't game and hoard things - I do. What other thing can you throw in - anything in the OCD spectrum or even autistic can lead to compulsive behavior. Is it all the drugs people take, is it in our tap water. I don't know but people are certainly more aware of mental illness than when people got shoved into homes. Now they live among us and if they are on disability - you think they won't game.

How do you overcome people whose brain revolts against rules like you suggest to create better products? I think we all know that's how you mold games, buy the ones that are good, shun and leave the ones that are bad. We used to do it with content but now payment model has demons brought along with it that you may have incredible trouble overcoming. Does it mean the undeveloped or ill brained people find their bastion and home in those games -- and should we leave them there is the question.

Some days I say let people be used. People use payday loans every day and I'm not out picketing those stores, I simply don't use them. Am I bothered that it's shaping the genre yes, but I don't see a solution for brain problems so simply. I trust my brain for everything I do, as do they. Their behavior can be explained but the solution isn't in sight unless you can outnumber them all and manage to spend more money in a different way.

I know that there was something chemically different about me and an alcoholic uncle I had. He loved alcohol and I don't like it all, every drink makes me sick. Can you talk away biology or reason with it. Not really. Free games harbor some people with sicknesses. I think we are genuinely watching people being abused but I don't see the way you can make it better.


COX: To not be too clinical in the spin that we put on this, what parts of the brain are we talking about and what changes happen between the ages of 18 and, let's say, 25?

AAMODT: So the changes that happen between 18 and 25 are a continuation of the process that starts around puberty, and 18 year olds are about halfway through that process. Their prefrontal cortex is not yet fully developed. That's the part of the brain that helps you to inhibit impulses and to plan and organize your behavior to reach a goal.

And the other part of the brain that is different in adolescence is that the brain's reward system becomes highly active right around the time of puberty and then gradually goes back to an adult level, which it reaches around age 25 and that makes adolescents and young adults more interested in entering uncertain situations to seek out and try to find whether there might be a possibility of gaining something from those situations.

AAMODT: Well, actually, one of the side effects of these changes in the reward system is that adolescents and young adults become much more sensitive to peer pressure than they were earlier or will be as adults.

So, for instance, a 20 year old is 50 percent more likely to do something risky if two friends are watching than if he's alone.


There is room in the world for more than one type of game.  There is more money to be had producing oil than computer games, but that doesn't mean that all of the game studios will shut down and decide to produce oil instead.  There's money in computer games, too.

It's sad that there is money to be had in some of the stupid pay to win/gambling stuff.  But that doesn't mean that all other games will be canceled in favor of that.  There is money to be had selling to gamers who like interesting game mechanics, too.  The more money there is to be had making interesting games, the more such games will be made.

Originally posted by Pepeq

I miss the old days because I owned the games I bought.  No matter how many bug fixes they put out, the base game remained the same. 


Why should I be concerned about the profitability of a game?

In the older days, the launch version was always the final version because there was no way to issue patches to cartridges.


You should care if games are profitable because it's a copycat industry.  If a studio makes a game that you love and it loses money on the game, the lesson the industry will take from that is to never make another game like that again.

I am not asserting that "we" all like the same games.  Different people here like different games and have different game mechanical preferences.  However, a lot more people like some games than others.  My basic thesis is that, at a societal level, we benefit if "game is profitable" is strongly correlated with "a lot of people like the game a lot".

Game developers are primarily trying to make money.  Their primary form of feedback on whether they've done a good job in making a game is how much money the game makes.  Given a choice between making a game that a lot of people love and making a game that is profitable, they're going to choose the latter.  We don't want them to have to choose between those two options.

So vote with your wallet.  Pay for games you like, and not for games you don't.  Sounds simple, right?  But that's not what a lot of people do.

There are two primary points that I want to make:

1)  If you really like a game, you should pay something for it.

2)  If you don't like a game, you should pay nothing for it.

On (1), people complain about "pay to win" a lot.  But if "pay to win" is the only way to make money, then that's what game developers are going to do.  The way to head that off is by paying for games that you like that aren't "pay to win".  Even if the game doesn't force you to pay in order to play, if you really like the game, throw in some money anyway.

I'm not saying "be a whale".  Spending $10 or $20 per month sends a clear message that you like the game.  Though if you have the financial means, there's nothing wrong with being a whale in the occasional game that you really love.  Even if all you're buying is unnecessary fluff.  Especially if it's just fluff.

But there is something very wrong with being a whale in every single game that you play, which leads me to (2).  If a game is kind of "meh", but not really bad enough that you feel the need to quit immediately, and you keep spending money on the game anyway, you're sending a clear message that you want developers to make more games like this one.  That's exactly the wrong message to send in a game you don't like much.

People don't tend to continue to pay a lot for a game after knowing that they don't like it.  The larger violation of (2) is people who pay a lot for a game before they know if they'll like it.  It used to be just be pre-orders, but game developers have figured out how to push that earlier and earlier.  Now there's early access, meaning not just launch a few days earlier, but pay for access to the beta, then access to the alpha, then access to various pre-alpha messes.  Kickstarter moved it to "pay for ideas on paper that might be vaporware".

All of this means "gamers paying for games" is further and further removed from "gamers liking games".  And that's a very bad thing.  The solution is, don't put your money there.  Try to avoid paying for a game at all until you know that you like it.  If you have to buy a box up front, at least wait until the game is launched and you know what mechanics are actually implemented and how, not just what some studio hopes that they can implement.

To do otherwise is to send the message that what you really want is games that sound good on paper and give you early access, rather than games that are actually fun to play.  That's a message that too many game studios are hearing, and its the fault of gamers paying for games long before they have any way of knowing if they'll like the game.

Game developers respond to the incentives that they face.  That gives us a very powerful way to push them toward making games that we really like.  Let's use it to encourage good games, not good early hype machines.

Originally posted by Merideusx
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by Merideusx

Hey guys, Just to get this out of the way I have never built my own compute but having bought 2 computers from site such as cyber & ibuypower an the computer falling off 2years later I'm ready to build my own. I really wanted to use this thread to post what I'm looking at buying for my build & using you guys imput (since you guys seem far better then me). Lets go.

My budget: Is a budget. Honestly though I want to get away with power for cheap. 

Windows 8.1 64 bit. blah blah blah

AMD A8-6600K ($99.99 + 5% discount + $10 promo code = $84.99)

ASUS A88X-PRO ($128.99 + 10% discount + $25 rebate = $93.99)

Crucial Ballistix Sport XT ($89.99 + 24% off = $67.99)

GIGABYTE GeForce GTX 750 ($119.99 + 20% discount + $20 rebate = $79.99)

WD Black Series 2003FZEX 159.99 + 17% off + $8 promo code = $124.00) 

Corsair CX750 $99.99 + 20% discount + 10% promo code + $20 rebate = $51.99)


This is what I've been able to come up with. With just a few google searches & looking to see whats on sale/ has ok reviews. I did leave out a few things cause I'm not sure what to be looking for in them & that is:

Tower Case & Monitor. 


So I guess the idea is. Do you guys see something other then whats above thats around the same price or lower and/or better?

I have no idea what prices you're looking at for some of those things, but they're not the ones listed on the links.

Try this for a CPU/motherboard/memory combo deal:

Yes, that is the rare three item combo deal that isn't junk.  That gets you six CPU cores instead of four, a nice motherboard, and comparable memory without the bad "it didn't work" reviews, all for cheaper.

And then let's get you a much faster video card for the same price:

Nvidia has some nice cards, but they're rarely competitive on a price/performance basis below about $150.

The power supply you picked isn't terrible, but it's not exactly good, either.  And you want something good.  For example:

At $60 before a $20 rebate, that's practically stealing.  Massively better than what you picked, and cheaper, too.


I'm not sure what to make of your hard drive choice.  Few people actually need anywhere near 2 GB for consumer use.  Most people would be better off getting a smaller SSD like this:

If you do actually need a ton of space, then add a hard drive--but pick one that is cheap for the capacity rather than paying a large price premium for the minor speed advantage of a WD Black.

Why do you "need" an SSD?  Basically, any computer that doesn't have an SSD is slow.  Period.  No matter what else it has.  That won't stop games from being playable, but it will mean you have to constantly--and unnecessarily--wait on your computer.


You didn't link a case or optical drive at all.  Nor a CPU cooler, though you can just use the stock cooler that comes with the CPU.  There are ways to get around not having an optical drive, but you really need a case.  If you're going to reuse an old case, it would be good to tell us what it is.

Ok, after it being explained I do like the idea of an SSD. And Your right my hard drive choice was poor is probly 98% more then what i would ever use. 

And I would not be using an old case or anything. I've been looking at cases trying to decided what would be best for me. Nothing fancy as the tower is always hidden anyhow. 

If you're not sure how much space you personally need, look at how much you're actually using in your previous computer.  If you never bother to uninstall stuff, you might need to change that if you go SSD only.  But I don't think "I haven't played this game in three months and will never play it again, so I'm going to uninstall it now" is that big of a burden.

Personally, I've been SSD-only since 2009.  I had 120 GB for four years, then upgraded to 240 GB.  If you try to go SSD-only and then later decide that you need more space, it's easy to add another drive later.


I don't see any need for a full tower case.  Full tower adds to the cost of production, and that gets passed on to you.  Maybe if you wanted to handle multiple high-end GPUs or a huge liquid cooling setup or something.  But mid-tower is plenty of space for most people.  This is decent, and very cheap at the moment:

$40 before a $15 rebate.  I wouldn't be surprised if that price doesn't last long, though.

Originally posted by Adjuvant1
You're not missing anything preferring AMD over Intel these days. Maybe next year or in 2 years that will be different. Don't let anyone tell you differently. For games, intents and purposes and all, keep in mind they market to 2 or 3 year-old machines. You just don't make money trying to sell something to people based on 2016 technology.

Intel's higher end CPUs are a lot better than anything AMD has to offer.  But they're also a lot more expensive and don't fit the budget unless the original poster is willing to spend a lot more than he's letting on.  My usual recommendation is that if you can't get at least a Core i5-4690, then save some money and go AMD.

Originally posted by CalmOceans

Here is the difference, Dual Graphics will engage both GPU, this won't happen with an Nvidia GPU.

I can't say what you should pick, maybe you like nvidia, you know.

Asymmetric CrossFire isn't the single dumbest idea to hit the market in the last several years, but it's up there.  He's got the budget to get a discrete card massively faster than a four year old Radeon HD 6670 that cost $70 way back then, even.

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