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All Posts by Quizzical

All Posts by Quizzical

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13669 posts found

If you're going to leave everything at stock speeds, a good quality 550 W power supply would be enough.  If you want to overclock without going for an unreasonably large overclock, make that 650 W.

If you're not going to get a CrossFire rig up front, don't bother building around being able to handle one later.  If you want to upgrade the video card in two years, the sensible thing to do will be to get rid of your current card and buy a new card that doesn't exist yet but will then.  Building around being able to handle CrossFire can easily add $100 to the price tag up front for an option that you'll never use, as you need a better motherboard, case, and power supply to be able to handle it.

Welcome to object oriented programming:  more instances for everyone!
Originally posted by Rufftimes
Quick answer? More like useless answer since we're not even talking about AMD cards here. To everyone else, thanks for the replies, I had kind of assumed the 780 would be based on older tech. I'll keep my eyes peeled for either a 970, 980 or 290x

The GeForce GTX 980 is definitely the best single-GPU consumer graphics card on the market today.  It's also the most expensive, and by a lot.  Outside of unusual needs, if you want the best and are willing to pay what it costs, then the GTX 980 is for you.  But if you'd rather have 80% of the performance for 60% of the price, there are alternatives, most notably the Radeon R9 290X.

Originally posted by Battlerock
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html

Unless you're just going to run synthetic benchmarks and not actually play games, one should be wary of basing a video card decision on a benchmark that is known to have strong architecture preferences that aren't shared by actual games.  That site is useful if you just want a ballpark approximation because you don't know if card A is twice as fast as card B or the other way around.  But it has strongly preferred Nvidia's architectures of the last several years over AMD's, just like it preferred AMD's architectures over Nvidia's before that.

$400 is way too much to pay for a GeForce GTX 780 Ti.  Nvidia launched the GeForce GTX 970 and GTX 980 a few months ago, and that forced previous high end cards to slash prices to compete.  That's why GTX 780 Ti prices have come down, but still not far enough to be competitive.  I think it would be silly to get a GTX 780 Ti over either of these, for example:

http://www.ncix.com/detail/powercolor-radeon-r9-290x-975mhz-d3-103515-1265.htm

http://www.ncix.com/detail/visiontek-radeon-r9-290x-1-0ghz-47-103587-1265.htm

Or if you have a strong preference for Nvidia, try a GeForce GTX 970.  It's a little slower, but quite a bit cheaper than the GTX 780 Ti.  It's also a lot lower power.

Originally posted by jpnole
X4 965, it's in my OP.

It would probably help to say that it's a Phenom II X4 965, as model numbers have been so weird that it may not be immediately obvious that it's a CPU, and it's also not the only 965 part ever released.

To give you some idea of performance, a Radeon R9 290 has 40 GCN compute units.  A Radeon HD 6850 has 12 SIMD engines.  They're different names for analogous portions of the GPU, and 1 GCN CU at a given clock speed will tend to be a little faster than a VLIW5 SIMD engine at the same clock speed.  So I'd expect the Radeon R9 290 to be 3-4 times as fast as a single Radeon HD 6850.
Originally posted by Vallista

I'm been looking and found this build on youtube recently

 

Custom Console PC Parts List: 

AMD Athlon 5350 APU, 2.05Ghz: $59.99

http://amzn.to/1DtOPpB

ASRock Motherboard Micro AM1B-M: $33.99
http://amzn.to/1Gm5OrO

Crucial Ballisticx 4gb DDR3: 35.99
http://amzn.to/1Ava3xl

Mini AC WIFI Adpater: 16.99
http://amzn.to/1AvanvW

FSP 450W Power Supply: $59.99
http://amzn.to/1Byq3zZ

Silverstone Tek Mini-ITX DTX Computer Case: 69.99
http://amzn.to/1A5FoH8

Western Digital 500GB WD Blue: 44.99
http://amzn.to/1A5FDSp

NVIDIA GTX 760 EVAG: $199.99
http://amzn.to/1sqO3zl

TOTAL: $521.93

 

What could I change out?  

That's the wackiest build that I've seen in quite some time.  It's basically a nettop plus a $275 video card.

AMD, like Intel, has two lines of x86 CPU cores.  One is their "small" cores line (bobcat, jaguar, puma), intended for low power, low performance use such as tablets and cheap laptops.  The other is their "big" cores line (bulldozer, piledriver, steamroller), intended for high power, high performance use such as servers, desktops, and higher performance laptops.

That build uses AMD's cheap, low power line.  The best Kabini and Beema dies get put into laptops where performance per watt is critical.  But some of the dies aren't very good, so rather than throwing them in the garbage, AMD sells them very cheaply for desktops use where you can have poor energy efficiency and not very high clock speeds and it's fine.  That build buys one of those dies.

Now, that makes some sense if you're building a desktop on a severe budget and never going to do anything more demanding than web browsing.  You can get a CPU, GPU, and graphics for $70 in total, in a system that barely uses any power so as to not put much demand on the power delivery or case airflow.

But the platform is wildly inappropriate for gaming.  For starters, it doesn't offer a PCI Express x16 connection.  There is a physical x16 slot, but with only x4 bandwidth.  PCI Express lanes burn power, so AMD didn't include many of them for this platform.  You don't get two memory channels, either; you only get one.  A cursory look at motherboards finds about 4 USB ports and two SATA ports to be typical.  Want a hard drive, an SSD, and an optical drive?  You won't be able to plug them all in at once.

That's not to say it's a bad platform.  Cheap laptops don't need 8 USB ports or 6 SATA ports.  It's an SoC, which means no chipset, and that limits connectivity.  That makes a ton of sense in the intended market.  Gaming just isn't the intended market.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Quizzical

Could I please see the confirmation that Broadwell will use the Z97 chipset?

 

http://newsroom.intel.com/community/intel_newsroom/blog/2014/05/12/chipshot-intel-releases-new-intel-9-series-chipset-with-pc-platform-enhancements

That looks pretty official to me.  Thank you.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Quizzical

 

4)  Even if there is a desktop version of Broadwell, it likely won't fit the same LGA 1150 socket as Haswell.


 

Broadwell using 97 chipset is confirmed, so yes it will LGA 1150 socket.


The release date for desktop was always slated for much later after mobile platform, so nothing is wildely wrong there.


It is still miles better than going AMD as you or the other guy have suggested. LGA 1150 will be there for a while, thus upgrading will be much easier and more sensible performance wise, even if no Broadwell desktop CPU were released.

Could I please see the confirmation that Broadwell will use the Z97 chipset?  A Google search found rumors that it will, rumors that it won't, and rumors that the chips would already have been launched months ago by now.  I've also seen rumors that there won't be a desktop version of Broadwell at all.  So obviously, at least some of those rumors are false.  Officially confirming a launch date of something a year away sounds like something Intel wouldn't do--in part because that's something that they really can't know just yet.

And even if something does use the same chipset, that doesn't automatically guarantee that it will use the same socket, though it does make it seem likely.  There are AMD 760G chipset motherboards that use Socket AM2+, Socket AM3, and Socket AM3+, for example.

Originally posted by Gdemami

With Z97 MB there will likely be no issue to get CPU replacement in 3 years from now on because Broadwell is going to be released at the end of 2015.

There are so many problems with that statement that it's going to take a while to unpack.

1)  Broadwell is available in laptops today.  Okay, so it's barely plural, but "is going to be released at the end of 2015" is wildly wrong.

2)  It's not at all clear whether there will be a version of Broadwell that makes sense in desktops--at least if you ignore weird form factors like Intel's goofy NUC.

3)  Even if there is a desktop version of Broadwell, it's likely that it won't be faster than Haswell.  The top end version of Broadwell currently available has a max turbo boost of 2.9 GHz.  Well, that's if you count "on Intel's web page" as "available"; if you want to restrict to parts that you can actually buy today, the highest I've seen is 2.6 GHz.

4)  Even if there is a desktop version of Broadwell, it likely won't fit the same LGA 1150 socket as Haswell.  The transition to DDR4 is under way, and that demands a new CPU socket.  While the current Broadwell die is DDR3, it's also wildly inappropriate for desktops (e.g., certainly too few PCI Express lanes to properly attach a video card, and probably too few USB ports to even make a useful desktop), and there's no reason why you can't pair different memory standards with the same CPU cores.

5)  The last CPU socket for which you could later get a meaningful upgrade over the initial launch parts was LGA 1366 in 2008, if you're willing to count the Westmere CPUs for which the cheapest was over $500.  If you don't count that, then you have to go all the way back to LGA 775 in 2004.  With DDR4 demanding a new CPU socket, there's no reason to believe that Intel is suddenly going to become a big fan of backward compatibility.

If people got stuff in beta that gives them an unfair advantage because it's both useful to gameplay and no longer available--or at least not available nearly as easily--after launch, then yeah, there should be a wipe.  If there was any whiff of a duping bug during beta, there should especially be a wipe.  But if you can just as easily get the stuff after launch that others got in beta, why make people go through it all over again after launch?
Originally posted by jdnewell

Turning down settings to make a game playable is fine for some I guess. But most people who are building a gaming rig want something that runs great at high settings, with good fps. If you like playing at Med settings at 30fps then thats all good and may be just fine for you personally. I would rather play at High settings at 60fps, doesnt have to be uber max settings pushing the envelope, but high / ultra is a world of difference between low / med. Isnt that almost the point of building a gaming PC?

That is not relevant to the card I picked.  Let's keep straight that we're talking about the difference between a Radeon R9 290 and a Radeon R9 270.  It's not like I told him to use the Intel HD 4600 integrated graphics in the CPU; it's faster than that by probably more than a factor of 10.  The Radeon R9 270 that I linked has 20 GCN compute units, as compared to 40 in the R9 290.  It has half the memory bus width, and similarly for some other stuff, so the card is basically half as fast as an R9 290, which is about as fast as is reasonable to consider on the stated budget.

And the Radeon R9 270 is still a fast card.  It's considerably faster than a PlayStation 4, which is itself about 50% faster than an Xbox One.  It's much faster than the Radeon HD 5850 that I still use--and that has let me run the games I play at 60 frames per second and whatever settings I want.  (Admittedly, that's partially a statement about what games I play and what settings I like.)  It will be faster than AMD's top end integrated graphics by about a factor of three or four.  It will run a lot of games at max settings at 60+ frames per second, and nearly everything else at 60 frames per second at fairly high settings.

Now, if you really insist on max everything, rather than being willing to turn down or off a handful of lighting effects while maxing everything else, then saving some money on the GPU by getting an R9 270 isn't for you.  And there are people like that.  I think it's silly, though.

Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by Quizzical

The difference between DDR3 and DDR4 memory basically doesn't matter in a desktop.  The reason DDR4 motherboards are expensive is that they're for Intel's high end CPU.  That requires Intel's high end chipset, and that's expensive because Intel charges a lot for it.

I don't agree with you about DDR 3 and 4, but it is indeed true that the only MBs right now are for Intels more expensive CPUs. That will change soon when more motherboards with DDR4 are made from different manifacturers. I would be very surprised if AMD wouldn't have DDR4s as well soon.

Give it a year or two and DDR4 will probably be cheaper than DDR3 and then everyone will use DDR4 for desktops and laptops.  But we're not there yet, and for now, DDR4 is a lot more expensive.  Is DDR4 at 2133 MHz really any better than the same amount of DDR3 at the same clock speed?  It will use less power, but that doesn't matter in a desktop.

On that budget, you're probably looking at a Core i5-4690 (or -4690K if the price gap is small enough), a Radeon R9 290X, a 240 GB SSD, and various other nice parts around it.  Or possibly a GeForce GTX 970 if prices shift a bit; it's surely cheaper to build than the R9 290X, so it wouldn't be surprising at all if it's cheaper than the 290X in a month.  A GTX 980 is a nice card, but it doesn't really fit the budget, as you'd have to cut back too much elsewhere to make room for it.  And I'm not expecting any new cards in the ~$300 price range to launch in the next month.

If you would rather spend more on the GPU and less on the CPU today, as some have suggested, then you can drop the CPU, motherboard, GPU, and CPU cooler above in favor of these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113327

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130679

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125505

And then you use the stock cooler.  I'd advise against that approach, but it's sensible if you're a max settings or bust sort of guy, rather than being willing to turn down a few settings to make a game run smoothly.  It's also reasonable if you know that you're never going to upgrade the computer you buy now, but will instead run it until it dies or you replace the whole thing all at once.  But if you can build a computer today, you can probably replace a video card while leaving everything else intact in a few years.

Part of the problem is that you'd lose an upgrade path.  If you have $300 to upgrade the first rig I linked three years from now, you buy a new video card, leave everything else as is, and then have a very nice gaming rig then.  If you scale back on several parts, then you have several things that it would be nice to upgrade and $300 won't buy an upgrade for all of them.

If you go AMD as I linked, then upgrading the CPU is probably too expensive, and spending $300 on a video card leaves you with the same video card and a substantially slower CPU three years from now.  Even if you do expand the budget to get a new CPU, motherboard, memory, and OS, any video card you can buy today will be much slower than a good $300 card three years from now.

Going with a slower Intel CPU as Gdemami suggests doesn't get around this, either.  A Core i3 is much more likely to be problematic in a few years than the FX-6350 I linked, so just upgrading the GPU then doesn't solve the problem.  The CPU upgrade option would be to get a Core i5-4690K that you could have bought today and had a faster CPU in the meantime in addition to spending less in total--and that's assuming it's not discontinued and off the market, as could easily happen:  New Egg doesn't carry any Sandy Bridge desktop processors at all today, and the Ivy Bridge processors it does carry aren't the top end K-series ones.  A cheaper Core i5 today has the same problems, while also not saving you much money today to allow for better other parts.  If you also saved money on the motherboard today to make room for a faster video card, then you upgrade the CPU and can't overclock it because you bought a motherboard that doesn't support it.

And ditching the SSD as Gdemami suggests is something that I'd very, very strongly advise against.  $100 for a very nice 240 GB SSD is hardly outlandish, and if you did scrap the SSD, you'd still have to pay $60 or so for a hard drive, so you only save $40 in exchange for a computer that is much slower at everything, just to be able to turn up an extra graphical setting (singular!) that doesn't even matter in some games.

The entire GeForce 900 series is out of your price range, though I'd regard the GeForce 600/700 series as still being current, given that they're the contemporaries to AMD's current lineup.

Depending on how you feel about rebates, this may or may not stretch your budget:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125505

If you want to stay strictly inside your stated budget, there's this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131533

But that has a price that is awfully close to the first card, while the performance isn't.  If you're not willing to shell out for the first card, you could save some money and get this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127789

But that's only an upgrade over what you have now when CrossFire isn't working flawlessly.  Which is a lot of the time, admittedly.

Originally posted by Chrisbox

I raided WoW as a hunter for years so I know what the "fast paced" Combat feels like

If WoW is your idea of fast-paced combat, then you've never played a game with fast-paced combat.  Not all MMORPG combat is either WoW or trying too hard to copy WoW.

FFXIV is a mostly combat game with good crafting and bad combat.  Good crafting is unusual in an MMORPG, so if you like crafting, I'd try it on that basis alone, even if you don't expect to stay all that long.  It's also got beautiful graphics--the best I've seen in an MMORPG by a good margin.

But good crafting and good graphics can't carry a mostly combat game with bad combat.  It's not just that the combat is slow; Pirates of the Burning Sea had naval combat that is slow but good.  There are games with good combat that is purely turn-based.  The problem with the combat is that it's boring.  It's as if they tried to make completely generic trinity combat without any twists to try to make it interesting.  The classes don't differentiate themselves well at all apart from the generic tank/healer/damage dealer roles, so cross-class abilities don't add much.

Now, I never made it to the endgame, and some people in this very thread claim that the combat was better at high levels.  But if I play a game for two months and haven't yet had an interesting fight, I don't think it's unreasonable to give up on a game.  Games that have a big mountain of boring grinding generally only have even more boring grinding on the other side, so I've learned not to stick it out and see if some particular game might be an exception that was just designed really badly.

If you're a good game designer and you've put interesting stuff into a game, you don't make players do a bunch of stupid, boring stuff before they get to try anything interesting.  That's a way to convince people who try your game that there's nothing interesting there.  Though now that I think about it, crafting wasn't any good until about level 13 or so.  But given that combat takes a whole lot longer than that to be any good, I'm skeptical that it ever gets there.

Originally posted by fivoroth
Originally posted by Quizzical
One problem with extremely long quest chains is that if just one quest in the chain is broken and uncompletable, you're completely stuck and can't do quests at all.

This can be a problem in any game. If the main quest in a singleplayer RPG is bugged and there's not much you as a player can do until the developer fixes it.

Lower number of quests should hopefully mean better QA over them. Also if one of the quests are bugged you can always carry doing one of the other two quest chains or do some of the other activities until the developer fixes it.

A broken quest is much less if a problem if it means that you just can't do that quest or maybe are blocked from the two that follow it than if it locks you out of the next hundred quests in the chain.

Also, fewer quests doesn't necessarily mean that they're more likely to work right.  The only way to reduce bugginess in computer programs is to make stopping to fix them a high priority.  That steals time from future content, not past content.  If you're not willing to delay future updates whenever necessary, bugs in old content aren't going to be fixed very quickly.

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