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All Posts by tupodawg999

All Posts by tupodawg999

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613 posts found
Originally posted by Winterleaf
Originally posted by Gamer54321


Player control over own actions

A really, really, really big map to play on.

No bullshit

Proper environmental effects, like rain, proper snow etc. Preferably seasonal changes. 

Not the bs rain seen in Arma/DayZ.

Environment! That was another question I wanted to ask about.

How many gamers here actually like that? I personally enjoy weather changes if the environment calls for it such as snow on a snowy mountain, but I think a whole season change would be pointless unless materials and mobs, possibly even quests change along with it- that's going to be a lot of work, but could create an amazing immersed game. 


Personally I think seasons would be the easiest way to create a dynamic *seeming* world without it actually being dynamic but as you say you'd have to change quests and mob spawns to get the effect. It wouldn't have to all change just some of it but it could make the game very replayable if it was enough e.g. on one character a player might level through four zones when those zones were in spring - summer - fall - winter mode respectively and then another time do the same thing but this time when the zones were in their fall - winter - spring - summer mode.


Similarly with a day / night cycle - on it's own it's not that great but when different mobs spawn at night then it makes the world feel dynamic even though it's not really.


If you had weather you could have different mobs then too in a few cases e.g. djinnis during sand storms in a desert.


Originally posted by Phry
Would love to see a Traveller MMO, still have all the 'classic' Traveller books from the 80's, but given the scope of how large the Traveller Universe was, even just covering the Spinward Marches alone would be a huge undertaking. But yeah, as far as i am concerned they can name whatever sub price they like, i'd pay it


yeah it would have to start pretty small but at the same time that would make it infinitely extendable.


I'd like it done in terms of "systems" so the main systems would have both a main (or more than one) main planet with moon colonies, asteroid miners, hollowed out pirate bases etc (for anyone that doesn't know the Traveler idea is a bit like the Age of Sail in earth history so although there are big planets with big navies it might take a naval squadron four months to patrol from one end of their territory to the other end so there are cracks for pirates etc to exist in) so the big systems might have a ton of different things to do and then have a chain of little backwater systems in between with (initially) just a refueling station so you get the sense of scale without an impossible amount of work and then add more detail later.


So for example imagine a sector of 30 systems in a network with six fully developed systems and the rest just gas giant refueling stations (at first).


Originally posted by VikingGamer
I think the Traveller universe would be great to see in an MMO. But one of the things that has always made it so distinctive is the amount of time it takes to travel between worlds. This is the major reason given for why mankind has regressed back to a feudal system of gov't. Some way would need to be found to maintain the sense of time needed to go from world to world without it actually hindering gameplay. Not sure how that can be accomplished without it simply turning into EVE Online.


I think the way to do it would be to either

a) make the travel fast but simulate it by adding to character age then at say 50 the player's stats start to drop until their high skill is outweighed by their lower stats. That then adds a whole new set of game motives as the player hunts down organic implants, cyborg parts, longevity drugs etc that give them more time but eventually you just pass on your alien blaster rifle to your kid and start again at 20.




b) the idea mentioned of making certain activities in game happen only during travel might also work - random encounters, social skills, gambling, crafting (aka ship maintenance) etc - although i think that might have to be optional. I'd be into that but players desperate to see the next system might get annoyed.


Yes I think Traveller's "jump drive" idea (where it takes an average of two weeks to jump from system to system) lends itself very well to an mmorpg because it creates the basis for isolated feudal planets with their own unique and possibly weird political setup but in a space context - systems are both self-contained and at the same time connected to a vast network.


Another aspect of Traveller that might be interesting is the idea of a character starting at different ages with a lower or higher level of skills and then aging with each jump. So you could start at age 40 with high skills (maybe good fro raiders) and avoid too many jumps whereas an explorer player might want to start at age 20 with low skills but more time (age 40 would take 500 jumps). Aging would drop your stats and fix the end game problem. Your character would have to have a kid and start at 20 again.


Lots of cool alien critters and planets, moon bases, refueling stations at gas giants, could be great.


(Lends itself to a very non-linear game play as well.




Originally posted by Winterleaf

Good Afternoon,Morning or Evening all.

I know that I'm asking a generic question, one that's probably asked a lot on here.

However, I'm currently doing some market research for an upcoming indie MMO currently in pre-production- we're hoping to get an Alpha Demo out just after Christmas.  I'm not here to advertise it or shove it down your throats- all I have are Questions!

So I'm just going to jump straight in:

When looking for a new MMO to play what draws you in?

What do you like when it comes to UI/HUDs? Got any examples of what you would call the perfect UI experience? 

What do you hate about MMOs that you wish they would just stop doing? (Just so we know what we can try to avoid!)

What is your all time favorite MMO, and why.. if you can explain it in words. 


I believe that's all I have for now, but I'm sure more will follow.

Thank you for your time, and I'm looking forward to your answers!


(like) skyrim type world design / crafting / freedom

(ui) i think wow nailed the UI thing really - apart from having two many damage skills flashing away on multiple tool bars - but that's more to do with the combat system

(hate) linear quest conveyor belt

(faves) EQ - lots of problems but lots of freedom, SWG ditto


I prefer fantasy to sci-fi but not by that much. I think part of the problem with sci-fi is ranged combat is more difficult to get right with mob AI and usually ends up as melee with guns which looks silly.


I like the game and particularly like the skill system and the tactical combat it creates but I am just so burned out on linear quest lines I can't stand it for more than a few hours.


I'll probably go back and go through it some more just because I want to see the rest of the world but I'll do it a few hours at a time.



Too many so just the crafting top 3 (for me):


1) A prospecting type gathering sub-game like SWG or Ryzom. In a fantasy world it wouldn't make sense to prospect for wood so make it the same as now with wood nodes, iron nodes etc to make the standard item but to make an item with a special property also requires some gathered mana that you prospect for and extract like in SWG. The type and quality of the prospected component would effect the item e.g. green mana might have different healing effects depending on the type / quantity while red mana might have various damage effects. You could also change gear effects by redoing that crafting step with new mana e.g. a player might loot some chest armor with a weight reducing effect they don't need so they get a crafter to replace it with a resist poison effect instead.


2) Regional crafting - personally i find it boring to have the same recipes in every region and it would make crafting more interesting if each race/faction (including some of the non playable factions) had their own version of standard recipes plus some unique ones and also if some items were only craftable with drops from certain zones. So your crafter dude could wander the world picking up recipes from different factions and/or crafting fire arrows from drops in one zone and ice arrows from drops in another etc. Also each faction having their own weapon / armor / clothing styles. The stats on the gear might be the same or might not but they have their faction's style so a crafted orc sword would look different to a crafted elf sword even if they were the same item in game terms.


3) Make gear style a separate crafting element - this is connected to the above and means have the gear and the style of the gear as two separate things. For example each faction might have the same basic recipe for leather armor (maybe using different local components and giving slightly different stats) but the style is separate. So an elf crafter would know the elf style and craft elf style leather and an orc crafter would know the orc style and craft orc style leather - but you could also learn the other faction's styles - so you could learn the standard recipes and your faction's style in your home region and then travel around learning other faction's unique recipes and also their faction's styles so you could change gear's appearance from one style to another that you have learned.

What this would mean is instead of having a wardrobe option which other players see where your character looks cool and also a main character window on your character sheet where the player can see how bad their dude really looks in their mismatched random drop armor - instead if a player liked elf style leathers and had lots of random leather pieces they could hire a crafter to change all their mismatched leather armor pieces into elf style (if the crafter knows the elf style).

This would both create additional demand for crafters from other players and give crafters a natural kind of quest line to follow.


Originally posted by MMOExposed

What's the size and features you are looking for in a MMO game world?

give some examples of MMOs that currently exist that fits your mode for what a standard MMO world size should be (based on fantasy/Sci if genres)

also explain what gameplay features you want in a MMO game world, to make it more than just moving background?


What I'd like is an mmorpg with nine or ten distinctive cultural or racial provinces with distinctive lore designed like Morrowind or Skyrim with masses of side quests / tasks. Each province would have a long main quest as well that was a) optional and b) entirely wrapped up in the lore of the province's main race and c) a decent single player game but if you switched it off you could start in a bunch of different towns and just do your own thing.


(If the provinces were big enough they wouldn't all have to built from the start. They could be penciled in in advance but you could have some at the start and then add the rest in expansions.)


Class customization by choosing from a set of skill blocks like SWG or Archeage (with preset templates for people who don't want to bother with it). (I'd like crafter to be one of the skill blocks you could choose but that may be too much of a minority thing.)


Good crafting. This would include: an SWG-like gathering mini game / treasure hunt, SWG-like item customization that increased with skill, crafting tasks/quests, regional/racial crafting and leveling up as a crafter (what this means is if you want to play the game in the sequence craft for a while / level / craft for a while / level etc that the stuff you make in the craft part is useful in the leveling part).


Good exploring: this would include hidden quests/tasks out in the wilderness, long range collection quests and the ability to create classes that were specifically good at exploring (i.e. speed, stealth, escape and evasion) at a cost of being less good at other things.


For me the combat would ideally be more tactical than flashing lights or twitchy but i think i'd be in the minority there and combat for me is less important than the other things anyway. Although one way to have all three (flashing lights, twitchy and tactical) at the same time would be to design one set of classes that were mostly uncomplicated flashing lights, one set that were good but twitchy and a third set that were complicated and only good if you used them tactically (EQ enchanters were like that).


PvP would tie into the game world somehow like Rebel Alliance and Imperial in SWG. For example in medieval times tournaments didn't just have jousting they also had single combats and mass battles where people would try and take prisoners for ransom prize money. (That's where the word "melee" comes from.) So for example you could pay 100 gold to join the melee and if someone defeated you they'd get the cash and exp. Each city could have their own distinctive tourney field.


"Tournaments often contained a mêlée consisting of knights fighting one another on foot or mounted, either divided into two sides or fighting as a free-for-all. The object was to capture opposing knights so that they could be ransomed, and this could be a very profitable business for such skilled knights as William Marshal. There was a tournament ground covering several square miles in northern France to which knights came from all over Europe to prove themselves in quite real combat."




I think that's it :)

deep, open world with good lore (with optional fast leveling chain quest for people who want that)

class customization with interesting choices (with templates for people who want that)

good crafting (but optional)

good exploring (but optional)

okay combat (ideally with a tactical option)

pvp as part of the game world (but still optional): either wars between two of the provinces (that can be won and then a different one starts) with their own battleground representing the border zone and / or the tournament idea where you can level up fighting other players.




The difference in a world designed like this to something like EQ's design is in EQ you have a faction starter zone with one big settlement surrounded by wilderness zones. In a more elder scrolls province type design each province would be the equivalent of say 3-5 EQ zones that border each other (so the pvp border battle grounds makle sense) with multiple smaller settlements and the wilderness areas *within* the province like Red Mountain or the Ashlands in Morrowind.


Originally posted by someforumguy

I honestly can't tell what my personal max price would be. I only can point at released MMO's which I think are not worth the sub or box price for me.

I tend to avoid subs these days, but thats not so much because of the price, but because I would have to pay it regardless of how much time I have that month. That payment model just doesn't suit me.

Also, other developments influence this a lot for me. Atm me and my friends play modded Minecraft on a server that I made for us. We do this instead of playing MMO's at this point. This is already our third world and third modpack we made for it. Every time made around a differentt theme. So right now, we just don't feel like spending any money on MMO's. But the moment we get really bored with this, this could all change.


"I tend to avoid subs these days, but thats not so much because of the price, but because I would have to pay it regardless of how much time I have that month. That payment model just doesn't suit me."


I think that's why i'll only do it for games i know i'm going to keep coming back to because then i don't mind still paying the sub when i'm not playing.


Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Dagon13
Originally posted by nariusseldon

What huge difference? Many good SP RPG that you design you char has a predetermined story line too. Fallout 1-3, Borderland, even Ultima 6!!

My case in point.  In Fallout I create my character and play how I want with almost complete freedom in how I go about my business.  In Borderlands I play a pre-generated character through force fed quests where my only choice is to do them or ignore them.  You really don't see the difference?  It's fine if you don't, but if that's how it is then you've got nothing to contribute to an actual discussion on this topic.

Only in combat, and some side quests. The main story is the same for everyone. There is no "complete freedom". In fact, it is a myth. As long as there is a story, there is no complete freedom.



Which gives the answer imo. The way to do it is design an mmorpg like Skyrim/Morrowind *except* you let the player choose at character creation if you want the main quest/chain switched on or not.


If you leave it switched on (on by default) then you start in a particular spot and get the linear SP game but if you switch it off you get to choose a bunch of different starting towns and then make up your own story.


I mod the ES games like that where i switch off the main quest (hard to do it 100% but good enough for me) and then make new starting points and gear for different characters like start as a Nord warrior with decent basic gear just arriving off the boat in northern Morrowind or an escaped Argonian slave starting in the swamp with nothing but shackles and a pair of pants etc.


I think it would actually be easier to make a game like that because you don't need a big story to explain why a village whose economy is based on exporting crab meat wants the p[layer to hunt crabs.


edit: btw not saying the main quest/story in Morrowind/Skyrim were bad - i usually play them first - but then i want to play again but with my own character


Originally posted by ReallyNow10

I feel lots of this back and forth discussions between sandbox and themepark, and open world and linear gameplay really boils down to one point devs (or any game designers) should remember:


Meaning, however the scenario or world is designed, drop the players into it and let them make their own decisions.  Few things frustrate a player more than the feeling they are trapped in some kind of movie and occasionally allowed to make their own choices. 

The more orchestrated a "scene", the less freedom the player experiences and the less meaningful it's outcome.  Doesn't matter how much voice acting and drama you bake into a finale, because if it feels staged and forced, it will probably be received as being canned and meaningless.

So, however you design a game and whatever theatricality you build into it, please remember this point.


With everyone doing the same quest chains you get Paladin characters doing random assassinations and necromancers doing help the peasants quests - for me that's kinda annoying.

For me they should either

1) increase mob exp so you could drop out of certain quests or quest chains you didn't want to do and then drop back in again afterwards


2) where a quest or quest chain doesn't fit a particular class then have an alternate one


If i understand your question my answer is:


*****DON'T***** change something just because a lot of users are screaming on a forum for it to be changed *****UNTIL***** you have taken a poll of all users because the things that 10% of your user base hate might be the things the other 90% love.


Instead ask users what are the top 10 things they dislike about the game and AT THE SAME TIME ask what are the top 10 things they like, then compare the two lists and don't change the things that appear on both lists.


Put another way: there is more than one type of a player so stop trying to make a game to suit a non-existent single type of average player and make a game that targets the multiple types of player separately i.e.

a good pvp sub-game for pvpers

a good fast leveling & raiding sub-game for raiders

a good slow leveling sub-game for altoholic levelers

a good exploring and collecting sub-game for explorers and collectors

a good crafting sub-game for crafters


a lot of the earlier games did a lot of this by accident because they were trying to create fantasy *worlds* and it happens naturally if you try to do that.



I subbed to EQ for years and I think that was $15, so that plus inflation. I'd only do it for a game that was "home" though and personally so far only EQ and SWG have given me that feeling.


"WHY should I take my time leveling? I mean give me a legit reason..."


You shouldn't. If you want to reach max level as fast as possible then games should provide a way to do that.


But games would have more long-term players/subscribers imo if they *also* allowed people who didn't want to do that other ways to play.


For example the standard fast leveling way nowadays is the linear quest hub game which bores me senseless. I literally have to force myself through them just because I want to look at the scenery and see if there are any cool dragons at the end. The last time I tried one of the best known games I literally fell asleep in the newbie zone (true story) whereas in EQ or SWG I could happily dawdle for years. (I'm not saying they were better games I'm saying they were better for what I wanted.)


(They're not always bad - the main story in lotro and bits of SWTOR were good enough as single player games to be enjoyable (for me) but generally it's not like that.)


What I like is creating different race/class/craft combos and leveling up to mid levels in different zones in different ways and most of the newer games don't cater for that. Now I may be the only one but I doubt it. I think there's likely to be a dozen or more standard ways different types of player like to play but the games have gradually morphed into only catering to one play style.



- solo leveling my cleric in the house in Unrest. i think i aged about ten years doing that.

- crafting first Trueshot longbow / completing Ivy etched armor quests



- my little Bothan scout riding around Tattoine on his mount - not doing anything, just riding



- pet taming before it was nerfed



- the shire zone


Originally posted by Po_gg
"... what are some of your least favorite types of MMO quests?"
Originally posted by kulhat

Worst quest is a bugged quest!! :P

This :)


"Alternatively, which games do you think have some of the best quest to offer?" TSW's quest mechanic is great. Also FC, AoC has some fun ones too (love the theology dispute in Tarantia)

Best quests as in writing, I'd say LotRO has my favourite ones. Narmeleth's story is still leaving me speechless after ever time I play it through...


Yes, good story quests are fine and a lot of the main chain in Lotro are good. I think the problem is games trying to make "work" tasks into "story" quests. It would be better imo if they divided the tasks into two groups and focus on the story part of the story quests and make the work quests interesting with the mechanics of it.


Originally posted by tupodawg999

I hate quests that say kill x number of y.


I don't mind the warehouse dude saying he has a problem with rats in the warehouse or the sewer dude saying there's a problem with skaven in the sewers or the tailor dude saying he needs wolf pelts - because they are all telling the story of the world itself - it's having to kill an exact number and then it's done and gone.


Instead make it so the warehouse/sewer/tailor dude say "i'll give you x for each rat tail/skaven necklace/wolf pelt you bring me" then you could kill 3 or 7 or 22 or however many you felt like until you got bored and then maybe come back and do some more another day.




Quoting myself to add the same idea could be applied to "collect x number of y" quests. If the game has a village whose economy is based on collecting a certain type of mushroom from a nearby swamp then having a "quest" (task) to collect mushrooms from the swamp tells the story of the world but there's no reason why it would be one off and no reason exactly x number. Make it so they give a reward per mushroom up to a certain number per day. Then to make it interesting put some hazards in the swamp like higher level (than the level of players generally doing the task) wandering aggro giant wasps and randomly activating patches of quick sand that root you for 30 seconds so instead of collecting mushrooms the task becomes collecting mushrooms while trying to avoid dying from the quicksand and wasps.


Avoiding higher level mobs while trying to complete a task can be as fun as fighting them.


I hate quests that say kill x number of y.


I don't mind the warehouse dude saying he has a problem with rats in the warehouse or the sewer dude saying there's a problem with skaven in the sewers or the tailor dude saying he needs wolf pelts - because they are all telling the story of the world itself - it's having to kill an exact number and then it's done and gone.


Instead make it so the warehouse/sewer/tailor dude say "i'll give you x for each rat tail/skaven necklace/wolf pelt you bring me" then you could kill 3 or 7 or 22 or however many you felt like until you got bored and then maybe come back and do some more another day.



Or make it optional.


For example make exp loss on death optional (and the percentage lost of current level optional too). Then if people wanted to make dying a bit less of a non-event they could make it cost them say 10% of their exp for the next level and if someone wanted to play where they couldn't die at all they could make it 100% i.e. they lost all exp for the current level.


Something like that.


edit: and if a player didn't want it at all then they could leave it switched off

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