Trending Games | World of Warcraft | Warframe | Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn | Guild Wars 2

    Facebook Twitter YouTube Twitch.tv
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:3,027,676 Users Online:0
Games:843  Posts:6,482,931
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online AD2460 ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord 2 Archlord X Armored Warfare Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Bionic Marine Command Online Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blackguards 2 Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodborne Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chroma Squad Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crowfall Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Heart Online Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dying Light Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthlock: Festival of Magic Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Fable Legends Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GRAV GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods Rush Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Hand of Fate Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Immune Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online Kill Strain King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lords of the Fallen 2 Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Hunter 4: Ultimate Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Necropolis Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Nova Genesis Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Chronicles Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Coast Legends Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Banner Saga 2 The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Trapped Dead: Lockdown Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utherous Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles 3D Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

All Posts by tupodawg999

All Posts by tupodawg999

26 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last
508 posts found
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by tupodawg999

I think there are actually four separate conflicts involved in this and a lot of it can be fixed by design.

1) people who don't like progression at all vs people who do

- I think part of this may be due to problems described below and part of it is simply people wanting a fantasy FPS.

Solution:

I don't think there's much can be done about the second part but the fist can be fixed by fixing the other problems.

#

2) people who don't like progression in a particular context

- The main examples I've come across over the years are raiders who are okay with progression for their first character but don't want to do it again if they need a second character for their guild and pvpers who want to pvp but most of it happens at max level so for them the progression part is just something they have to do before they get to the part of the game they like.

Solution:

1) Allow people who have a max level character to create new characters at max level if they want (or max-1) and 2) let pvpers level from pvp from level 1 that is they can get exp off each other like they were mobs.

#

3) people who who like progression but prefer one form of progression over another

- mine is a mixture of exp and levels for simplicity but when you level you pick one new spell/ability from one branch of one of multiple ability/spell trees for maximum player choice - so a bit like Skyrim perks. I don't mind classes but I prefer more choice and a lot of skill based games the choices are actually too easy because you can cheese a lot of the utility skills.

Solution: different types in different games plus trial and error

#

4) problems with progression separate from preference

- these are the problems that are caused by the logic of progression for example player separation caused by the power gap

Solution: can be fixed by design as already mentioned in the thread i.e. multi-level regions and narrower power gap

 

1. I think you are right there.

2. Not a good idea. The problem is that the 1-max level content takes up a large portion of the game, at least 75%. So allowing you to skip that with alts will make most of the games content totally meaningless after 2 weeks play. Now, if leveling were a really slow process it could work that you were allowed to create alts on any level you completed before but with current levelingspeed you would just make the game even smaller,

3. Here I think buying upgrades instead of leveling but with a "recommended" button for anyone thinking that is a bother would be the simplest solution. You could add a tier (say 1-6 or so) if you want to see your relative power.

4. I am with you there as well (then again, it was me that suggested the power gap thing in the first place so it is hardly a surprise).

In any case do I think the lack of customization is a common problem with the regular levelsystem. Sure, the current system makes balancing easier but the price for that is too much. You can of course make a level system where you pick all your upgrades yourself (again with a button with standard options) but then there really is no difference bwteen that and a leveless system besides level locked gear and customization options.

 

2. Yes, meant as an option in an otherwise slow leveling game.

3. Yes, having a recommended button is the way to deal with complex systems so newbies don't gimp themselves. In reality there'd be optimal builds and 90% of players would pick one of them so there would still be "classes" of a sort but there would be choice for the 10% or so who want to make up their own "class" like a demon summoning archer or whatever.

 

 

Originally posted by Xion1985
Originally posted by tupodawg999

"Secondly, I get so tired of acting like it's the dev's / publishers greed thats the problem.  the MMORPG community has been incredibly fickle for a long time. "

 

I don't think it's greedy devs or fickle players. If you parse the posts of players there are clearly *multiple* player segments who prioritize different things. It's not one person wanting two different things it's two people wanting two different things.

 

If you make a list of those segments some are mutually contradictory but most aren't and most could be accommodated within the same game if was designed in that way to begin with.

 

I think it's mainly a problem of dev perception i.e. aiming for a *single* average player type (and then picking the type that makes the most noise) rather than looking at it like a jigsaw puzzle where they try and slot many different player types into the same game.

 

you very well could be right sir.  To clarify what I meant about fickle is just that it seems like most mmorpg players including myself jump from game to game to game at a crazy pace.  Maybe I'm wrong.  I think you have a good point though.

 

Yes I see what you mean, I think this issue is partly what causes the game hopping.

 

For the sake of argument If you divided the player base into

1) fast level and leave

2) fast level and raid

3) fast level and pvp

4) slow level, RPG types

5) emotionally invested long-term players - players who treat the game like their favorite bar/pub/chat room because they  became emotionally attached

then a fast level game will do well at first but won't keep groups 1 and 4 (and won't have time to create lots of group 5) so needs to keep enough of groups 2 or 3 to make the game work long-term.

Hence why I think these games need to somehow find a progression compromise that works for both groups 2, 3 and 4.

 

The second point is what causes players to get attached to the game. I'd say either

- they get attached to the world itself (easier with a popular pre-existing IP)

- they get attached to their characters (which takes time played)

- social connections (which requires some level of interaction)

 

#

 

So the design aims, to my mind should be

- deep world (to get people attached to the world)

- slow progression (to get people attached to their character) but with specific compromises for raider, pvp players

- a solo design but actively removing all the things that prevent grouping (for social interaction)

 

I think there are actually four separate conflicts involved in this and a lot of it can be fixed by design.

 

1) people who don't like progression at all vs people who do

- I think part of this may be due to problems described below and part of it is simply people wanting a fantasy FPS.

Solution:

I don't think there's much can be done about the second part but the fist can be fixed by fixing the other problems.

 

#

 

2) people who don't like progression in a particular context

- The main examples I've come across over the years are raiders who are okay with progression for their first character but don't want to do it again if they need a second character for their guild and pvpers who want to pvp but most of it happens at max level so for them the progression part is just something they have to do before they get to the part of the game they like.

Solution:

1) Allow people who have a max level character to create new characters at max level if they want (or max-1) and 2) let pvpers level from pvp from level 1 that is they can get exp off each other like they were mobs.

 

#

 

3) people who who like progression but prefer one form of progression over another

- mine is a mixture of exp and levels for simplicity but when you level you pick one new spell/ability from one branch of one of multiple ability/spell trees for maximum player choice - so a bit like Skyrim perks. I don't mind classes but I prefer more choice and a lot of skill based games the choices are actually too easy because you can cheese a lot of the utility skills.

Solution: different types in different games plus trial and error

 

#

 

4) problems with progression separate from preference

- these are the problems that are caused by the logic of progression for example player separation caused by the power gap

Solution: can be fixed by design as already mentioned in the thread i.e. multi-level regions and narrower power gap

 

Originally posted by Maurgrim

 

GW2 did something good with questing sadly few seems to follow it and improve on it.

 

Yes, I think they are a definite improvement.

 

The only quibble is if you have some kind of special scripted event and it takes a lot of work to get right then maybe it shouldn't be over-used otherwise it won't feel special any more - it's the same with the rifts in Rift imo; they're cool but after a while they become part of the scenery.

 

Personally what I think might work better long term is you have the world on a clock - for example say one real week is a game month and different zones have a specific world month when a special event kicks in e.g. a desert zone has one in the mid summer (week 6 in the cycle), an icy zone has one in the mid-winter (week 12 of the cycle) a volcanic zone might have a random chance each week of an eruption event etc and/or instead of adding real world festivals like Halloween into the game world, instead add what lies behind the festival e.g. undead outbreaks during the 11th week of the cycle.

 

"Secondly, I get so tired of acting like it's the dev's / publishers greed thats the problem.  the MMORPG community has been incredibly fickle for a long time. "

 

I don't think it's greedy devs or fickle players. If you parse the posts of players there are clearly *multiple* player segments who prioritize different things. It's not one person wanting two different things it's two people wanting two different things.

 

If you make a list of those segments some are mutually contradictory but most aren't and most could be accommodated within the same game if was designed in that way to begin with.

 

I think it's mainly a problem of dev perception i.e. aiming for a *single* average player type (and then picking the type that makes the most noise) rather than looking at it like a jigsaw puzzle where they try and slot many different player types into the same game.

 

Originally posted by ReallyNow10

Levels are what spread out and separate a player base, and in aging top-heavy games, actually isolate the newer players.  And newer ones are the very folks you want to work on retaining, and nothing retains better than community.

...

 

Take a piece of paper, draw a 2" circle in the center and then fill the rest of the paper with random different sized circles then write in a level range 1-5, 6-10, 11-15 in each circle etc up to max level. Jumble them around but on average level increasing towards the edges of the zone. The center circle is the main settlement with some farms etc and level 1-5 and the rest of the circles are that level range - then create the geography to fit the circles. That's your zone.

 

Then make a bunch of zones like that which join together and the player base plays in the same zones and running to and fro the main settlements.

 

That solves that problem.

Originally posted by tixylix
The genre is dead, there is nothing.... for the first time there is genuinely nothing. 

 

At least there's single player games like Skyrim now to show them how to do it.

 

Originally posted by Sukiyaki
Originally posted by tupodawg999

Lineage shows the incredible payoff from hitting the jackpot with an MMORPG for a particular market.

 

It tells much about MMO player habits when decade old games are still leading the market. It's hard to beat nostalgia and year of personal investment. 

 

I think that is the key.

Originally posted by h0urg1ass
Originally posted by ArtificeVenatus

Progression easily translates into Levels. Without Levels, you may have Progression through Building Skills. Skill-Building and Leveling are in fact the same thing, but presented in different ways

The only way that this statement is true, is semantically.  Otherwise these two progression systems play out entirely differently in practice.

Leveling based systems give you a certain amount of XP in order to obtain your next level.  Upon obtaining this level the character is presented with a handful of pre-determined options for progressing the class.  (I would use the word character, but levels and classes are so tied together in modern MMORPG's that they might as well be double strands of DNA.)  These options never change and quite often there is one progression path out of the 2-3 provided which is quite clearly better.  In the end, all serious players end up with the exact same build.

In skill based leveling, the player determines the makeup of their own character by determining which skills to train.  They pick the direction of progressive travel, not the game developer.  You can randomly sample 100 players in EVE Online, for instance, and not one of them will have the same set of skills as another.  The same could be said for most other skill based MMORPG's.

 

Yeah but they're both progression systems - effectively a player's story.

 

The OP's original question wasn't clear on whether he didn't like progression at all or just didn't like the level-based version of it but later posts cleared that up.

 

Progression in some form will always be a part of RPGs because RPGs are about a story. At the same time there are players who'd don't really want RPGs they want a fantasy FPS - which is fine, just call them RPGs and action RPGs or something to distinguish between the two completely distinct genres.

 

Originally posted by JohnP0100
Originally posted by tupodawg999
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
People arguing for years is no way indicative that they were right it merely indicates that the genre is still heating in a direction they don't like and they still want to argue.

Also the quests do not need to be soloable for the least soloable class. People just need to be aware that some classes will do some things better than others

 

It should be obvious after all these years that the people who said MMORPGs had taken a wrong turn were right as the genre isn't heading anywhere - it's slowly sinking - as shown by the lack of aaa development

 

Obviously they do. If a certain class can't follow the single linear quest chain then they'd be stuck wouldn't they.

Last I checked, GW2 / SWTOR / WoW / ESO all have expansions coming out  soon / or came out recently.

So WTF are you talking about?

 

Just showing how the people who were right have got smugger over the years while the people who were wrong have got touchier.

 

Originally posted by Incomparable

Why is not having a dungeon finder important to socialization?

sure it adds more work as in LFG, and a channel just for that, but why is seeing lfg tells something that you want to see spammed?

People find their group and can socialize.

I agree games should be more social and more group oriented (which would mean its either niche and challenging  content or esay face roll group  content, but requiring a group nonetheless, unless its a raid), but why is removing the functioning of spamming lfg considered bad?

So another possible issue of catering to the masses - easy group content which forces people to form groups before they play - and maybe still making it easy when only in a group

Or addings challenging content even for groups and really making it a niche game ontop of the reuiqrement of forming groups.

still a group finder in an mmo that requires grouping to pve does not affect socialization. Im still trying to understand why spamming lfg is important.

 

I think people list the things they remember *which made the zones feel more alive* but it's that feeling that is the actual issue rather than the details.

For example in EQ you might have someone offering teleports, someone selling crafted armor, some LFG, some asking about where a quest mob spawned etc. All those things have been "improved" in later games but at the cost of making hte world feel less alive. That doesn't mean you necessarily have to go back on any of those individual changes but something needs to be added to compensate for the alive feeling.

 

 

Originally posted by TheScavenger

Every MMO is a multiplayer game? Why do you need to be so anti-social to be forced to be social with people?

 

Asheron's call was old and a heavy solo oriented experience, but everyone was smart enough and social enough to group up. We got exp bonuses for it, but was about as fast as a solo experience.

 

In WoW, I grouped grinded and leveled faster that way...just grouped for quests and what not that most people did solo. We did them faster, but it came out to be as fast as a solo experience like in asheron's call.

 

Just because you aren't forced to group, doesn't mean you can't group lol...what the lamest excuse that isfor forcing their gameplay upon others.

 

Asheron's Call was one of the old style games where

1) you could level off mobs

2) the content wasn't linear so if you had a group you could level off tougher mobs

 

I'm not saying people should be forced to group - i'm mostly a solo explorer type myself - I'm explaining why games with a single linear quest chain have an underlying logic which has lead to the current stagnation.

 

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
People arguing for years is no way indicative that they were right it merely indicates that the genre is still heating in a direction they don't like and they still want to argue.

Also the quests do not need to be soloable for the least soloable class. People just need to be aware that some classes will do some things better than others

 

It should be obvious after all these years that the people who said MMORPGs had taken a wrong turn were right as the genre isn't heading anywhere - it's slowly sinking - as shown by the lack of aaa development

 

Obviously they do. If a certain class can't follow the single linear quest chain then they'd be stuck wouldn't they.

Lineage shows the incredible payoff from hitting the jackpot with an MMORPG for a particular market.

 

Basing a game on a single linear quest chain has logical consequences.

 

If you make the quests require grouping then there will be a lot of LFG problems so it makes sense for them to be soloable but if there is a single linear quest chain and the quests are soloable they need to be soloable for the least able player playing the least soloable class so they have to be easy and if they're easy enough for the least capable solo player on the least soloable class then they'll almost certainly be easy enough that grouping actually slows you down.

Alternatively if a player liked grouping and grouping for quests was no fun then they could group and grind mobs instead - except the xp for killing mobs outside of quests is generally too low - so even if it is unintentional linear quest games actively discourage grouping (along the main quest line).

 

Also linear quest games often kill the RPG feel by making everyone do the same quests: Paladins assassinate people for money and Assassins help the poor villagers for no money etc.

 

Plus there's no freedom.

 

Now some people say there's no problem with this but as this argument has been going on for years it should be obvious by now that the people who said MMORPGs had taken a wrong turn were right.

 

The solution is quite simple - adding questing to MMORPG mob grinding was a good idea but just break up the single linear quest chain. Go back to a non-linear EQ type world design but with lots of added mini WoW type quest chains scattered all over and also beef up mob exp so if people just want to grind some mobs and chat then they can. People can still play the solo quest game if they want while others can group up to do higher level quests or grind higher level mobs.

 

Fast Travel makes the world seem small if you have it right from the start so unlockable is best imo.

 

I guess people are addicted to something they used to get from MMORPGs but aren't getting any more.

 

I'm enjoying that comic.

 

WoW didn't start out like that though. People got *emotionally invested* in WoW's game world over many years beforehand and they play casually in Wow now (rather than in any of the other newer games that provide the same thing) because they are invested in Wow.

 

Hence why new games trying to start where WoW ended doesn't work.

 

The question for WoW is why aren't the first wave of young hardcore players with lots of time who are now older casuals being replaced by new young hardcore players with lots of time who would one day become the next generation of older casuals?

 

edit: I don't know the answer to this although the assumption would be they did things to the game that reduced emotional investment from new players.

1. If you have progression then you will get a power gap between players so on its own getting rid of levels doesn't fix the problem.

2. There is a problem with progression games as newbie zones become empty over time and this drives new players away.

 

One simple solution is to simply not have range based zones - make all zones level 1-50 i.e. the "newbie zone" has a settlement with level 1-10 content close by, level 11-20 in a circle beyond that and 21-30, 31-40, 41-50, 50+ in one each of the four corners. This doesn't solve all of the problems of large power gaps between players but partially solves the empty zone problem.

 

Another option is to simply reduce the power gap per level i.e. make it so 20 1st level characters have a 50:50 chance of taking out a single level 20 character rather than a level 1 not even being able to hit a level 20. This is probably easier in a level based game than a skill based game. This wouldn't fix the problem but it would reduce it.

 

Or have a more horizontal progression system where players pick an ability per level from a tree and this ability doesn't increase their overall power in every situation but only in some situations e.g. a mage character levels and picks an undead spell as their ability choice for that level. This makes them more powerful against undead but not against everything. Or they pick a water breathing spell that allows them or their group to fight underwater but doesn't do anything out of water. A level 20 character in a game like this might be a lot more powerful than a level 1 or they might just be more flexible depending on what abilities they picked.

 

26 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last