Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Lille7

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Majinash

Originally posted by heartless

Video games, unlike TV shows have a potential to reach broader audiences.

Pretty sure you've got that backwards.

Not really. Here's an example. I never watched "Jersey Shore" because I know what it's about and it's not something that interests me. So whatever happens on that TV show has no effect on me because fuck them. On the other hand, I like the combat in TERA and may purchase the game. But now I will be subjected to little girls wearing revealing clothes because even though I may roll a different race, there are enough sickos out there who will roll an Elin and justify it with such arguments as "they are cute" or "they aren't little girls as per lore" or some other nonsense.

 

Now we get to the core of the problem here as I see it. You don't like jersey shore so you don't watch it. You don't like some things that are in TERA and instead of not playing, you make the developers change the game to fit you. Thats my issue. Why don't you whine about jersey shore until they change it to what YOU like.

It's what I find most troubling with the MMO industry. People whine so you change the game, instead of letting the whiners change to another game that might fit them better. Plenty of games have been ruined by this. Games are changed to try and fit everyone, and you get a game that are not what it was supposed to be. They take out alot of things that some people whine about, now the longtime fans/players of the game will suddenly realize they are playing a completely different game, because some people wanted to play this game yet didn't.

I hope you can see my point here.

Dude... We are talking about a sexualized portrayal of little girls. Little. Girls. Let that sink in for a minute.

Think about how can you possibly justify portrayling preteen girls in not only revealing outfits but also design the animations where their skirts rise up to reveal their underwear and stick their butt towards the screen. I would be really interested in reading your response.

That's how they envisoned their game. And I want to play their game. If I don't like it I won't play it. And im not actually bothered by it. And like I said, it's the principle of the thing.

I don't really see how putting tiny shorts on them is really changing anything. Or are you maybe on of those people who thinks a girl in a bra should put some clothes on but a girl in a bikini is just fine?

Originally posted by adam_nox

You can't make people stop something that isn't illegal.  Pageants require very little funding, the prizes aren't big, they are funded by a few retards.

Enough complaints and laws can change. Or you know, these shows could be CENSORED. Force children under a certain age to wear clothes that covers enough to be deemed "proper". Like what is being done with TERA.

The fact that people are upset about the lightly dressed Elins and seem to think that lightly dressed 8 year olds, shown of to a group of adults is perfectly fine because it's legal. Seems strange to me :P

Censoring the virtual one and not the real one, thats a bit freaky. IMO.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Majinash

Originally posted by heartless

Video games, unlike TV shows have a potential to reach broader audiences.

Pretty sure you've got that backwards.

Not really. Here's an example. I never watched "Jersey Shore" because I know what it's about and it's not something that interests me. So whatever happens on that TV show has no effect on me because fuck them. On the other hand, I like the combat in TERA and may purchase the game. But now I will be subjected to little girls wearing revealing clothes because even though I may roll a different race, there are enough sickos out there who will roll an Elin and justify it with such arguments as "they are cute" or "they aren't little girls as per lore" or some other nonsense.

Now we get to the core of the problem here as I see it. You don't like jersey shore so you don't watch it. You don't like some things that are in TERA and instead of not playing, you make the developers change the game to fit you. Thats my issue. Why don't you whine about jersey shore until they change it to what YOU like.

It's what I find most troubling with the MMO industry. People whine so you change the game, instead of letting the whiners change to another game that might fit them better. Plenty of games have been ruined by this. Games are changed to try and fit everyone, and you get a game that are not what it was supposed to be. They take out alot of things that some people whine about, now the longtime fans/players of the game will suddenly realize they are playing a completely different game, because some people wanted to play this game yet didn't.

I hope you can see my point here.

Originally posted by heartless

Video games, unlike TV shows have a potential to reach broader audiences. For example, those child beauty pageants are mostly watched by the people who are interested in that nonsense.

Originally posted by heartless

It is bad. But the existence of one doesn't excuse the existence of the other. Just because it's on TV doesn't mean that people are OK with it.

It does mean just that. Peoples whining made them change the Elins (or maybe the possibility of whining), if enough people said "NO" to those pageants they would stop too. The fact that those pageants are on TV and not some secret underground movement means that they are socially accepted. You seem to think that Elins showing underwear = child pornography, and apparently think a huge number of people are going to react to that once the game is released in the west. Yet those pageants are still there. On TV.

And do you really think the audience for TERA is bigger than the number of people who get whatever channel toddlers and tiaras is on?

And it's the principle of the thing that bothers me, not the fact i can't see their panties.

Originally posted by heartless

 

Again, the beauty pageants in question are done by the fringe element of our society and many Americans view them as inapropriate and immoral. There is a lot of crazy shit going on in the world and using those pageants as an argument to support your point is along the same lines as saying that all muslims are terrorists. It's just plain ignorant.

Doesn't matter if it's a fringe element of society. You still allow parents to dress their children and show them of this way, yet you won't allow a computer game to show the same on virtual characters? Characters that might look like children, but arent?

Don't you see how strange that is?

Also not all features of the Elin are childlike, as someone said, the upper body is childlike, but the legs for instance are definately not those of a child.

Well my biggest gripe is that peoples whining will make me unable to play the game as the creators intended.

Originally posted by Xyched

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by Ecoces

Originally posted by Pivotelite

Originally posted by Ecoces

lol i love the idea that just because the lore says they aren't children that its ok to make them look like 10 year olds in panties.

That's not the reason why, it's okay because nobody cares about that in Korean culture where the game was developed. Not everywhere in the world has the same standards/social norms.

well then i am glad that i live in a country that doesn't objectify a 10 year old as sex symbols and considers it a "social norm".

 

i guess some western values ARE better.

Man you're American, dont they hae beauty pagents for 8 year olds? is that not objectifying? or are you being a typical American that condemns other cultures before taking a good hard look at your own?

I've heard of beauty pagents for children existing, but I've never seen one, for what it's worth. That being said, even the ones I've heard of don't promote the sexualization of the children in any way. The children aren't scored on their sex appeal, it's more an exercise in confidence and preparation. I'm not defending them, but you're making them sound like some kiddy strip club.

Heres a Youtube clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64t_30NKwkw you really only need to watch the first 30 seconds and you will see the Elin got nothing on those pageants, and this is REAL.

Originally posted by Benjola

I think the concensus was that Asia in general and Korea in particular being this different culture where they tolerate sexualization of young girls did their thing.

 

See the youtube clip I linked.

Originally posted by Benjola

It's not a 'few people' it's a whole different culture with different norms, rules and laws.

Just like they 'westernized' the client language-wise they also did other aspects of the game including the Elin changes.

I just hope giving Elin hotpants instead of panties is enough.

I don't think it is for reasons mentioned in my post and I also hope Tera can 'fly under the censorship radar' with this issue and my guess is it will because I don't expect of the game to become a huge WoW-like succes in EU and NA so the whole thing will prolly go unnoticed.

I'm not talking about gamers I'm talking about goverments, west is extremely protective and overly sensitive when it comes to children and they can and will censor it if they see fit.

I doubt anyone here in Sweden would care if the original Elin was used. Or yes, some would care, and complain, but nothing would be done about it.

Changing the game to avoid silly censorship is not solving the problem, simply working around it. The problem would be the silly censorship. I believe games should be governed by the games industry and it's costumers, not the people who would never play the game and get all their "facts" from some "news" channel like Fox.

Originally posted by Toferio

 

Please show some proof to that ten times increase, since you see, the financial report of SV (the one they can't lie in) says otherwise.

The latest financial report was for 2011, so it wouldn't reflect the last month.

My only "proof" is what has been provided in this thread and reports from players who are in the game. An increase in trial accounts are also unlikely to show in a financial report. I never said all the new players that players have seen in the game are there to stay, most of them are in fact likely to quit once their trial period is up.

Originally posted by Painlezz

So... 

 

100 players before this happened.

10x increase

1000 players now?  AWESOME! 

;)

It's by no means awesome, or even good, but that would still be a boom in population, wouldn't it?

Im not saying the game is saved or great or the best thing ever. Im simply arguing the fact that people see more players online would constitute an increase, and from what i've heard, a major increase. The game might still be doomed. I don't really care that much.

I reiterate, I have no proof other then what's been provided in this thread by the people playing the game. But if there is indeed ~20 players where there before was 3, how is that not a major increase in activity?

Originally posted by gaugemew

While I personally agree with the changes I am not one to force my beliefs on other people.  It is my personal opinion that a box in the graphics settings for more modest Elin textures would have been enough.  That way you can not see the textures that offend you and other people can have an uncensored version of the game.

I suspect it was never about personal opinion though, and it almost never is.  The censorship police just wanted to force their opinion on other people.  It somehow validates their life.  A wierd concept.  I prefer a lot of things that would make me more conservative, but I can have those things without impeding on other peoples freedoms.  Just because I like blue walls in my house doesn't mean I should force everyone to have blue walls.  While this is a simplificationn of the issue, the base argument I'm making stands.

I'm very tired of every little thing in life being some political battle.  Both parties could have had what they wanted here.  But for one party, having only their textures changed was not good enough.

Gauge

Well said

Originally posted by Benjola

It's not only about clothing, it's the giggles and booty shakings and whatnots, it's clearly sexualy provocative.

Add to that the sexy clothing and avatar that looks like a 9 year old girl and the whole package is just creepy.

I don't care about asian culture being different the game is served to the west, which has different normes and perhaps a bigger number of pedos and child molestors, you don't want them encouraged or aroused in any way...

Personally I think Elin should have been scraped from the western client because it has a potential to cause a lot of trouble for Bluehole.

I have mentioned this before, all it takes is to show some of the videos to child protective services or other govermental institution that has a political power and there goes trouble and it's not like Bluehole don't have enemies that would shut down the game tomorrow if they could.

For example, Germany is known for banning video games they find ultra aggresive etc.

Lose Germany and there goes a half of EU market.

But this is a korean game, here i would really like to play the "if you don't like it, don't play it" card. I don't think you should change the game because a few people complain, if you do that you will end up with a game that is more like every other game out there (this time it's a minor change, and one that doesn't effect gameplay, so no biggie, but im against it on principle). Let games be different.

I don't really care about the change, personally i felt it was unecessary, but it's nothing that's really worth complaining about :P

What i do wonder though is that people who see the people who play them as perverts also think people who watch cat videos on youtube is into beastiality?

Originally posted by SHOE788

Originally posted by Lille7

Originally posted by kakasaki

Originally posted by xDayx

Kakasaki, typically you are a pretty rational person in your posts in terms of rational criticism of MO. I didnt think you were the type to irrationally dispute the fact that players are noticing more people running around.

Its not scientific, but many people who played 3 months ago and the same people playing now probably have noticed it more crowded. I dont see what the big deal for the hate from you.

Does it mean SV is a great company with great developers now? No. It doesnt. So they may (or may not) have had a small pop increase because of the "awakening" announcement.

I dont see why the hate.

I am sorry of I seem more exasperated these days. But you have to admit, the recent push from low post count/new users claiming the game is great is somewhat suspect. As far as the poster in this thread is concerned, I agreed with him. It wasn't sarcasm. His claim is based that 2 or 3 months ago there was barely 1 ot 2 people in the city he shows on the video. Now he is seeing a dozen or so. So yes, under those parameters the game is booming. However, that's a very narrow set of parameters and hardly a claim for a booming population. I mean, some of the posts on here make it seem like you have to wade through thousands of toons because of a booming population.

 

How can you not call an almost 10 times increase in population "booming"?

And even if only 9/10 of those new players start a subscription that's still good news for MO.

 

And before anyone calls me a rabid fanboy im gonna state that im not playing the game, and haven't played since beta. I like the idea and the vision of the game, i just dont think it's good enough yet to be worth a subscription. For me that is.

[citation needed]

Going by the number of people shown in the video (small sample, i know) and the claim that just a few months ago there was 2-3 people there.

Originally posted by kakasaki

Originally posted by xDayx

Kakasaki, typically you are a pretty rational person in your posts in terms of rational criticism of MO. I didnt think you were the type to irrationally dispute the fact that players are noticing more people running around.

Its not scientific, but many people who played 3 months ago and the same people playing now probably have noticed it more crowded. I dont see what the big deal for the hate from you.

Does it mean SV is a great company with great developers now? No. It doesnt. So they may (or may not) have had a small pop increase because of the "awakening" announcement.

I dont see why the hate.

I am sorry of I seem more exasperated these days. But you have to admit, the recent push from low post count/new users claiming the game is great is somewhat suspect. As far as the poster in this thread is concerned, I agreed with him. It wasn't sarcasm. His claim is based that 2 or 3 months ago there was barely 1 ot 2 people in the city he shows on the video. Now he is seeing a dozen or so. So yes, under those parameters the game is booming. However, that's a very narrow set of parameters and hardly a claim for a booming population. I mean, some of the posts on here make it seem like you have to wade through thousands of toons because of a booming population.

 

How can you not call an almost 10 times increase in population "booming"?

And even if only 9/10 of those new players start a subscription that's still good news for MO.

And before anyone calls me a rabid fanboy im gonna state that im not playing the game, and haven't played since beta. I like the idea and the vision of the game, i just dont think it's good enough yet to be worth a subscription. For me that is.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Lille7

Nope, none.

Atleast not anything that anyone uses, even if they could. It is possible to make large seamless worlds where there can be hundreds of players in one spot. And I would much rather the rendering power was used for ALOT of characters or mobs instead of just advanced graphics. Now don't get me wrong i LOVE to play a good looking game, but in all honesty I would be fine with mount and blade quality graphics if I could see hundreds of players fighting over a small castle or something.

Phasing

LFD/LFR cross realm grouping

access of in-game functon from outside the game (use of mobile phone to access AH, guild chat ...)

 

Well, I find phasing, and crossrealm automatic groupfinders detrimental to the MMORPG experience, because it reduces the social aspect of the game. So I don't count those, because I don't think they advance the game/genre. And accessing AH, chats and other things from a phone is not really a technical advancement of MMOs, but more a technical advancement of mobile phones and the web.

Just my opinion :)

Nope, none.

Atleast not anything that anyone uses, even if they could. It is possible to make large seamless worlds where there can be hundreds of players in one spot. And I would much rather the rendering power was used for ALOT of characters or mobs instead of just advanced graphics. Now don't get me wrong i LOVE to play a good looking game, but in all honesty I would be fine with mount and blade quality graphics if I could see hundreds of players fighting over a small castle or something.

Don't like it much either. The things i went to the website for was primarily dev blogs and the forums. Devblogs are now 3 clicks and pages away instead of 1. Forums are still 1 click away which i guess is ok, even if I have to mouseover the menu at the top first.

This is alot better then the SkyrimHD 2k texture mods. Alot of the textures in that mod are just terrible, sure they are highres, but they are very messy. They just crammed as much detail in there as they possibly could, making the textures look really bad. Look at the stone stairs in Whiterun as an example.

For me the best part of this bethesda pack is the clothes upgrade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/Reise/highres.jpg

Looks great :)

They are probably calling the expansions 1 and 2 for every year. It looks like they want to release 2 "expansions" per year, and are just calling them 1 and 2 for every year. As they are calling this next expansion "expansion 1" when they released Dawn last year.

So 2 releases per year like CCP does. If they can keep that up, and make sure they actually work, seems like they should be able to improve the game at a steady pace. But thats a BIG if.

Originally posted by Kiljaedenas

Originally posted by Suraknar

Currently, none to my knowledge.

Darkfall is pretty much FPS gameplay, which could have been fun if the mechanics it is set in to were more like, UO. Darkfall is not UO by a longshot. Too much hacking too many exploits. And no matter how good hand eye coordination you have the game underneath has a themepark functionality to it because you can raise some skills to a point where you would not even take any damage, with resistances and HP etc etc...

So the game overall, I found to be, a big contradiction.

EVE, well, has a Sandbox Scope overall (which is well setup and well balanced), but the actual combat of it is boring as hell (for my tatse). It is all strategic based, and there are really no tactics except the "Surprise" element. Once the combat does start, it is all die rolls and the one who wins is the one that has been the most prepared for the engagement before it takes place (hence strategic based), but barren of any tactics during combat, not even maneuvering counts, facing, etc...

I did not try Mortal Online..after the initial blunder that was Darkfall, i was not even interested to look at something similar.

That part in red, perhaps true in one on one PvP, but with any kind of group combat, very wrong. The order in which your group selects and destroys (or tries to destroy) the enemy ships is increadibly important for determining the winner, and you have to adapt to a constantly shifting situation such as when unexpected reinforcements show up. It's not just get close, orbit and fire; it's more like fire on one, while neutralizing the energy of a second and putting EWar on a third, while your logistic ship(s) have to quickly adapt to whomever on your side is getting targeted and keep them alive as much as possible, and the enemy may decide to suddenly switch targets to trip them up...there can be more tactics involved in a small gang vs gang fight in Eve Online in five minutes than in the entirety of a PvP round session in something like WoW or Rift.

It's not even true in one on one PvP. Ofcourse you can do it like that, warp in, lock, scramble, orbit and shoot and just hope for the best. But maneuvering helps alot, keeping your target in your optimal range and staying out of his, keeping transversal high when it matters and other things like that. Like keeping out of scram range so you can get away if the fight is not going your way.

Theres alot more to Eves combat then it seems at first.

I'd probably say that Darkfalls ranged combat (didn't like the melee combat that much) and Eves combat are both great, but very different.

This is fairly interresting, although their problem have always been delivering, not promising :P

"Star Vault har under 2011 genomgått en del förändringar och bland annat tvingats revidera den tidigare målsättningen om att nå break-even under andra kvartalet 2011. Orsak till detta har varit att Mortal Online inte levt upp till spelarnas högt ställda förväntningar och att Star Vaults kostnadsmassa har varit för stor"

This says that they have gone through some changes and had to change the earlier goal of break-even Q2 2011. And the reason for this is that the game didn't live up to the players expectation and the costs for Star Vault have been too great.

Atleast they are aware that players are dissapointed :)

Originally posted by Isasis

 

But, what about voice commands in the game? I don't know how raids work in modern MMOs, since I refuse to use anything related to voice...but what about commands that your character actually says (and not just text)...like "fall back" or "avoid ___" "focus target #1"...as some examples of what I'm getting at, but probably said better. 

Or has this already been done? Or is any future MMO planning anything?

Im not quite sure what you mean by this. Do you mean that you type something and then your character says this?

The whole point of using voice chats are that you can talk while playing. If you need to type something you are not playing. Every second you are typing something at your keyboard is a second you are not pushing buttons for abilities/moving around.