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All Posts by dcostello

All Posts by dcostello

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6 posts found

  I prefer to 'talk-it-out' like a normal, peaceful human being.  Besides, killing is egregiously over-rated...

Originally posted by Raithe-Nor
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Judging by the responses, its the players that are the missing link, they are the ones refusing to evolve, to the point of completely ignoring it right in front of the face as if critical thinking and rational thinking has been sucked from skulls.. I hear the echo now. 

Well hello there Mr. Bloodworth.  Let me rephrase:

Game genres do not, and I repeat DO NOT, evolve along with individual games.  If I create a game called "Risk Online" that has nothing to do with the board game "Risk," I don't get to market my product to board game enthusiasts as if it were the same thing.  A genre is simply a classification, it's not an actual construct that is capable of adaptation and evolution.

I would guess that most of the people on this web site are actually interested in a Massively Multiplayer Online RolePlaying Game as defined by history.  Dressing up a first person shooter with some gear grinding and calling it an MMO is not going to make most of them happy - even if it's all done in the sacred name of "evolution."

 

    Ahhhh....your fallacies, derived by your arrogance, hurts my head.  You're not proving anything by stating that "genres do not evolve with individual games..."  How can you be so ignorant? And, how can you be so cruel while being so wrong?  You do not even realize that a genre is a compilation of familiarly associated individual entities (in this case, individual games).  If an individual game were to change, and/or present a consequence of unprecedented unique quality, then the genre, as a result, is changed (keep in mind this change can vary in degree, so the change may be minute or severe...).  Therefore, individual games DO, and I mockingly repeat, DO evovle with their respective genres. 

   I'm afraid that you, not-so-nice-to-others person, should realize YOUR flaw (you should also go back to Kindergarten where they teach little persons how to play nicely and respectively with others...it's a great program) is grounded in a classification error--a word-play issue.  You're somewhat correct in stating that Risk Online has nothing to do with Risk, the board game.  However, you're basically saying that jeans have nothing to do with pants....Yes, Risk Online has an online factor to it, but it's also based off of Risk, the board game, which you somewhat contrived to be other than its online deviation....impressive.

    While your argument is somewhat intellectually stimulated, you seem to stumble upon the elementary, philosophical "blocks" of reasoning.  Your inductive argument, your perception of some sort of underlying pattern, by which you base--as support--your argument, is relatively flawed.  The argument is logical, it's not unreasonable to assume that these five pieces of support are sufficient enough to draw the conclusion you affirm in your title.  However, the problem is that it isn't necessarily sound, and one must ASSUME that these pieces of "evidence" are sufficient, when they aren't necessarily so.

    One can change shirts, but that doesn't mean one actually CHANGES.  A person can dodge in-and-out of traffic and the person can changes lanes as he/she sees beneficial (when a lane appears to be "moving"), but it doesn't mean that that person is actually gaining more progress than the cars around him/her.  What is this point of stating these random comments?  Well, one cannot truly conclude that just because there are differences-- from older MMOs--doesn't mean that any actual "change" has occured.  Payment plans and environment/settings changes have very little to do with the actual change of an MMO.  "Kill 10 spiders" scenarios are monotonously retarded, and such is the case in any MMO that implements them...I don't care if they are "Space spiders" or "Magical Spiders," I'm sick of killing so many goddamn spiders...

   I hope you arrive at my perspective without personal pains.  I'm not an egotistical-snot-nosed punk, who thrives off of others' misery.  I just like to have good arguments and show people where, in my personal opinion, they have strayed from verifiable truth (and I mean truth in the most vernacular sense possible...nothing abstract about MMOs...).  Otherwise, I enjoyed your article.

Originally posted by Sortis
Originally posted by Quizzical

Nice strawman argument there.  It might help if the author were to address the actual argument of why the "free to lose"/item mall games get such negative reactions from so many players.

If you get an e-mail from someone claiming to have $10 million US in Sierra Leone and wanting your help to get it out of the country and promising you a substantial portion of it, do you have to follow through to know it's a scam? If you follow through on a few such e-mails and get scammed, do you then know that the next such spam e-mail you get is also a scam, or do you have to try that one, too?

The reason why a game being completely free gives it such a bad reputation is simple economic reality.  Companies that make games in pursuit of a profit aren't charities that merely want to give you a good game to play.  They're trying to make money, and they have to get money from you somehow.  The question is how they get money from you, and it's best if their source of revenue is obvious.

For a subscription game, they get substantial revenue from everyone who plays, so they have no need to nickel and dime you for additional revenue.  (That may not stop SOE from doing so, but I digress.)  If you have to buy a box before you can play the game, as with most single-player games, then again, the revenue source is obvious, and there's no need to worry that they'll try to impose additional charges on you later.

There can even be some genuinely free games where the "revenue" source is still obvious.  A flash game that some geek coded by himself in his free time doesn't have enormous expenses to meet, and a bit of advertising on the site with the game, or even having the game distributed for free by other sites, could well meet the game's expenses.  Some games are themselves advertisements, most commonly cheaply done things on a corporate web site where the premise of the game is that the corporations products are really wonderful.  Occasionally there can even be larger budget such advertising games, such as America's Army, which was basically an advertisement for the United States Armed Forces.  NASA is apparently working on such a game, too.

But when one gets to a game that advertises itself as free to play, but clearly cost quite a lot of money to develop, one has to be quite naive to think that the company isn't going to try very hard to get revenue out of you somehow.  If they say that their revenue source is an item mall, but you don't have to actually buy anything from it, alarm bells should go off that they're probably at best being intentionally deceptive.  If buying items from an item mall doesn't give any gameplay advantage, most players won't, and the company will get virtually no revenue.  A company can't allow that, and will have to give large gameplay advantages for buying things from the item mall.

And the economic situation is worse than that when one considers who is playing those games.  The author says that millions of people in "this region" play various "free to lose"/item mall games.  I'm not entirely sure what "this region" means, but even if it means the United States only, I find the claim quite believable.  Many of the people who play those games do so because they can't afford to play anything else.  Perhaps they are kids who can't afford $15/month for a game subscription, or whose parents won't allow them to use a credit card online.  If the reason they're playing an item mall game is that they can't pay a subscription, then they won't be able to buy anything from the item mall, either.  A company making a "free to lose"/item mall game thus gets no revenue from a large fraction of its players.

The company thus needs to get a lot of revenue to pay for the game, and needs to get it from a relatively small fraction of the playerbase.  The company thus usually needs to get quite a lot of revenue from the relative handful of players who do pay.  The only way to do that is to make it so that further payments give further gameplay advantages up to a pretty high threshold--much higher than the $15/month of a typical subscription game.  That means that either the "free to play" game is actually quite expensive, and far more so than a normal subscription game, or else that it's "free to lose" as I've been repeatedly saying here, as you'll be at a big gameplay disadvantage as compared to those who do pay a lot of money.

Indeed, economic reality dictates that if a "free to play"/item mall game has an item mall that doesn't really unbalance anything and doesn't get the company much revenue, they'll probably have to make the item mall more unbalancing in order to get more revenue in the future.  Losing money in the first few months after launch while attracting players, only to try to make it up later with a more unbalancing item mall, is quite a plausible business strategy, and indeed, has been done on quite a number of occasions.

Could there be exceptions?  While there could, if a company were making its marketing strategy one of telling players, we're not like those other "free to lose"/item mall games, and you can't gain any further gameplay advantage beyond $X/month, why wouldn't they display that prominently?  A lot of the item mall games won't even tell you what's in their item mall until you get into the game, for about the same reasons as the stereotypical drug dealer saying, "Try it.  You'll like it.  The first one is on me."

And so, a challenge to the author:  if you want anyone to believe that there are genuinely free to play item mall games that have considerable development costs, aren't in themselves more an advertisement than a game, and don't really mean "free to lose" unless you buy quite a bit from the item mall, then name one.  Just one.  It should be one that's been out for quite a while, so as to rule out the "lose money at first, but add a lot more to the item mall to make it up later" model.


 

This poster just pretty much owned the author in every shape form and fashion. I really have nothing to add to this because this person pretty much said it all. In other words /agree

 

   This doesn't say it all.  There is no logically necessity between method of payment and game quality having to be directly related, if they are related at all. If hypothetical game "A" can be good, and be free, then--no thing if this is ACTUALLY possible, not if you DON"T LIKE IT-- method of payment is not a NECESSARY aspect for game quality.
 

  This post only talks about "scams," and other such hodge-podge.  Ever played Warhammer Online?  They billed me outright, but they most certainly were not donating that money to charity.  Oh, and the game sucked...but it was a P2P game...uh, oh. I have a different opinion. I might as well put on my ignorant cap, because that's the only way to win an argument.

   If hypothetical "scam" can-- remember possibly, this isn't a question of preference--exist as a P2P game, then you're theory that all F2P games is illogical, because the quality of being a "scam" is not necessary to the category of F2P games.

 

   Exercise a little open-mindedness and perspective before you declare your viewpoint supreme.

 There's no reason to even have this arguement based on the fact that you're (the OP) trying to reason with ignorance.  To provide a horrible example, this task is similar to trying to put out a fire with olive oil or alcohol.  The more you become infuriated, the more you try to convey, and persuade these ignorant, incessantly moronic, skull heads, the more you provide pleasure for such fools.  You, and you're hypothetical opponent (which may comprise more than half of the world) are not striving for similar goals--in fact your goals have no relavence.  While you try to win an argument with reason and logic for the perferred product of a sound conclusion, you're opponent is trying to win with juvenile tactics--such as, "Dude....you're mom...lolomfgNewb"-- for the purpose of frustrating you.  I ask, why bother?  You can't change ignorance with reason or logic.  You can't convey ideas and perspective to someone who is not willing to even contemplate such things. Let the morons rant about how F2P games suck.  They are not persuading anyone of sound mind to think differently of the genre, they're only leading their knuckle-head friends off the perverbial cliff anyways.  Besides, would you even what such idiocracy manifested in human form to contribute to the F2P communities?  If you start a lemonade stand, why invite big, fat, booger-eating Charlie smash the un-officail concession stand to tiny, little bits?

  I agree with the OP, hisorical MMOs are a much needed sub-genre within the genre...I wish that someone would make a bonafide Medieval game (the closest to that was DaoC, but that didn't work out for me).  I've given up on hoping for a AAA company to come along and make a historical game because even if they did make one, they'd just mess it up anyway.  That's why I've been writing down ideas for a Medieval MMO, just in case I get the "elevator" scenario where I have to persuade a game developer to adopt my game :) --until then I'll just be waiting.

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