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News & Features Discussion  » World of Warcraft: Editorial: The Burning Crusade

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  Dana

Novice Member

Joined: 1/07/04
Posts: 2425

 
OP  10/20/06 3:40:33 PM#1

In this new editorial as part of a new weekly World of WarCraft opinion series, Garrett Fuller looks at The Burning Crusade expansion and wonders whether fans can expect anything new or more of the same.

As we draw closer to the release of the Burning Crusade there are several concerns that remain for players who have been sitting in the end game for over a year and a half. The WoW expansion that everyone has been waiting for has promised one very simple thing, more of the game you enjoyed from the beginning. My question is what does this do for the game? Will it force all of us sixties to almost start over again and struggle our way through to seventy repeating the same game play all over? What will characters gain in this ordeal, the same things we gained from leveling all the way to sixty? The point is will the Burning Crusade bring something more to the table than say, just more Warcraft as we know it.

With Outland to explore and more leveling quests and raids it seems like there may be some good content added. I have often said that WoW is the dumb down version of a game that everyone can play. Point is it's easy. That is why Blizzard created it that way. The new lands and quests will add flavor to the game. Now that we're all at the end, will that same system for leveling be there to add ten more levels. I think so. It seems from what we have been reading that aside from lots of new stories and graphics, very little will change in the way that Warcraft is presented to the world. It will be easy.

The whole editorial is here.

Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios

  Global_Infer

Novice Member

Joined: 7/26/06
Posts: 23

10/20/06 4:00:08 PM#2
Unfortunately I couldn't agree more, more of the same.. Nothing amazingly game-changing. :(

It is a shame though, because I really did like WoW, the gfx, the gameplay, but the lack of PvP and a properly implemented "guild" system was a bit of a let down; end game and there's precisely NOTHING to do. :(

  Dragonalf

Novice Member

Joined: 2/02/04
Posts: 25

10/20/06 5:19:26 PM#3

Sadly, I too have to agree with you  ...

Since I left WoW last January, I often asked myself what would get me to come back. Certainly, the prospect of the expansion should have been enough. But as I learned more and more about the expansion it has failed to pump up the excitement level as I expected it to.

I just get the same ol', same ol' feeling when I read about the expansion content. Being that I'm not (can't be) a raid or PvP player it's easy to be underwhelmed with the prospect of grinding to level 70 as the only thing that'll really appeal to my playstyle.

Nah, I'll stick to the MMO's that provide me just a little bit more challenge or a little more story or more intimate dungeon crawl ...

  Cry0

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/09/06
Posts: 44

10/20/06 5:35:44 PM#4

100% agree. I sold my account after naxx came out just because of the reasons said above.  Everything that blizzard puts out is just an extension of what is already there.  A new instance comes out and its just like the previous one except a little harder.  The game was too easy and once you hit 60 it was not a matter of who had skill, just a matter of who had the most time. 

 

The game --was-- fun but after getting 60 and getting your epics the idea of continuing to put time in just to replace old gear with new gear as expansions came out wasnt interesting enough to invest 15$ a month + 5+ hours a day.

  rawrxbrad

Novice Member

Joined: 8/09/06
Posts: 119

i need rl modz NAO

10/20/06 5:36:20 PM#5

Agreed, millions of people paying $15 a month should get way more then just more warcraft from 2004, i was going to start playing WoW again when the expansion came out but now it just seems like all Id get is more of the same game, which is a good game i just had enough of it.

  Xenduli

Novice Member

Joined: 3/25/06
Posts: 660

10/20/06 5:44:17 PM#6

Good grief, what a poor review. (That's me being unusually kind here)

"will that same system for leveling be there to add ten more levels. I think so. "

Oh come on, if you are going to review TBC at least be in the beta, which has had its NDA lifted by the way.

The outlands will have PvP controlled areas, if one faction does not control that area there will be no quests for that faction until they regain control. How is that the same 'system'? Or do you mean kill mob get xp etc? /snore.

"It will be easy."
"Yes there is some PvP."
"Yes we will get new talents and spells."
"I think that the Burning Crusade expansion will certainly sell well for Blizzard."

Keep your platitudes and gives us some meat and potatoes!

"Until something new comes along,...", I wish the same could be said for this review. You can do better than this Garrett!


No annoying animated GIF here!

  brutotal

Novice Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 272

10/20/06 5:52:30 PM#7
More of the same, love it or leave it.

Easy gameplay, some pvp, raiding.

Reviews onspot IMHO
  L0k1-

Novice Member

Joined: 8/28/04
Posts: 240

10/20/06 5:59:06 PM#8

Originally posted by Xenduli

Good grief, what a poor review. (That's me being unusually kind here)

"will that same system for leveling be there to add ten more levels. I think so. "

Oh come on, if you are going to review TBC at least be in the beta, which has had its NDA lifted by the way.

The outlands will have PvP controlled areas, if one faction does not control that area there will be no quests for that faction until they regain control. How is that the same 'system'? Or do you mean kill mob get xp etc? /snore.

"It will be easy."
"Yes there is some PvP."
"Yes we will get new talents and spells."
"I think that the Burning Crusade expansion will certainly sell well for Blizzard."

Keep your platitudes and gives us some meat and potatoes!

"Until something new comes along,...", I wish the same could be said for this review. You can do better than this Garrett!




some locations are able to be conquered, but most of them are just the same like the towers you can capture in eastern plaguelands, nothing special imo.

i mean they say it's a strategically so valuable!! but 5 minutes after i capture it and leave, the alliance just recaptures it ....

so much for strategic value .. at least let some npc's spawns like vendors or guards and let them do something ....


and n/o but the writer is absolutely right, wow expansion is more of the same, i've been playing since alpha and not much has changed in the end, just more farming for rep and grinding instances for items. World PVP is still as worthless as before. arena pvp is nice, but if i want something like that i'll buy guild wars, i want some WAR in the world between the alliance and horde....

the first zone is completely set in a war scéne, very nice at first sight! burning legion and fel orcs attacking horde and alliance fortifications, horde/alliance defending the dark portal, ....

really nice except one thing ... it's all static, nothing changes . you do quests and they say you've driven the burning legion off, you return to the 1st zone and they're still fighting at the same locations, no-one is winning and that's one of the major flaws imo of wow, horde and alliance should really compete for territory. now they're all just standing there and doing nothing ....

so YES TBC is more wow to lvl 70, just more of the same stuff and nothing special
  LSDMiraculix

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/04
Posts: 95

10/20/06 6:13:16 PM#9

nice, people like to talk without knowing a thing.
"Garrett Fuller looks at The Burning Crusade expansion" ...but I think he hasn't played it.
There is no beta NDA so plz tell me who of you has a beta account and is talking about facts?

edit: btw WoW is easy? who has beaten C'Thun here or who has been to Naxx?
You don't like big raids? -has you killed a world dragon with 20 men?
or has you beaten Jin'Do in ZG?
and has you been to ZG with 10-15 men?
...
WoW is easy to learn but hard to master!

  Cry0

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/09/06
Posts: 44

10/20/06 6:53:35 PM#10

Hard to master? are you kidding me.  When you have 10 year olds in guilds who can cast an arcane missle here and there and earn t3 epics the game isnt hard.

Yea iv been to every instance up to the 2nd boss in naxx when i decided the game was retarded and sold my account.  My guild was the most progressed horde guild on server, ...

 

C'thun - check

wold dragon with 20 men... um last time i checked world dragons were more a matter of pvp than anything else.. unless you played on pve server where a warrior and a priest could sit there and hold a dragon untill their friends came..

jin'do - are you serious? you killed jindo congrats +5 epeen points how can jindo be in the same question of *warcraft skillz* as a 40 man boss like c'thun lol.

Killing bosses isnt even what makes the game easy imo.

what makes it easy is the idea that you can attain the maximum level in 2 weeks if you play a lot and about 2 months if you arent totaly 100% focused on leveling and you take your time.

Ontop of that you get level 1-60 without any group interaction unless you chose to do a low level instance or elite quests.. which are both considered a waste of time by people who understand how to level as fast as possible in the game.  Battlefield 2 isnt even an mmo and it takes more work to get ranks in that game than it does to get pvp ranks/levels in wow.  I just finished the city of villans trial and that game was harder than wow to level + you had to play with groups most of the time to get things done.

The problem i had with WoW was always the lack of group involvment pre-60 raid instnaces.  People didnt have to go through any trouble getting to 60, the only hard thing in the game was getting into a guild that had enough people online to raid things.  Once you got 40 people consistently online it was only a matter of time before you took down bosses and got gear and moved onto harder bosses and better items.  If the game was hard it would have demanded that same group work from the begining where people had to group up to earn levels.  Working and struggling for each level creates a high level player base of people who understand their class role as well as weeds out the players who arent cut out for endgame.

The fight for the max level that wasnt remotly there in WoW is why i think its such an easy game and is why i lost interest.

  Aethios

Novice Member

Joined: 7/18/05
Posts: 1520

I come here
because I care.

10/20/06 8:27:16 PM#11


Originally posted by LSDMiraculix
who has beaten C'Thun here or who has been to Naxx?
has you killed a world dragon with 20 men?
or has you beaten Jin'Do in ZG?
and has you been to ZG with 10-15 men?

Please, please don't try to tell us that WoW is hard. Getting gear 30 levels higher than your character and learning to jump through a slightly different hoop for each boss is NOT difficulty. It's gimmick, which is about 90% of WoW's content after 60.

Regarding the article... while I agree that Burning Crusade is more of the same, this nonsense is just ridiculous.


I thought from the beginning that adding new races and not new classes was a let down. It shows one of two things. Blizzard is lazy in really trying to create change in the game, or they have a perfectly balanced system so why mess with it? I think it is the game balance they are trying to maintain, and certainly not that they are lazy.

If Blizzard is so intent on maintaining class balance, why do they insist on using the new spells and talents to completely destroy everything we know about the current characters?

Rogues who have a chance to stun on every hit?
Hunters who can set traps in combat? (without Feign Death)

Balance? I don't think so. The truth is that Blizzard IS very lazy. They have become very good at nerfing and buffing, and pretending it isn't so, or masking it as a "bugfix." They play favorites with the classes, so to speak, by smashing one to pieces, and handing another the game on a silver platter, and then a few months later reversing the tables.


Blizzard always does put out a good product that runs very smoothly.

Since when? In the two years that I played the game, they hadn't managed put out even a single patch that works properly. Every time, the servers are destroyed for weeks, and even with the weekly 8-hour maintenance, they still reset the servers several times before stability is restored.

The game certainly has its strong points, but they definitely are NOT ones that you guys are pointing out.

  JRRTrollkin

Novice Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 15

10/20/06 9:10:58 PM#12
You're right except that they haven't given up on hero classes they stated that. They very much have implied that more is to come. That even at lev 70 people won't be strong enough to face Arthas.

I personally don't see the great need to change stuff. Do you want massive changes that alienate people like the things that happened to SWG (not that it was a great game to begin with).

Mostly though its hard to speak of what you haven't played.
  VideoXPG

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/06
Posts: 267

"Human stupidity knows no bounds" ~Albert Einstein

10/20/06 9:23:44 PM#13
Very nice look into Burning Crusade and I agree with Fuller a lot. I may reactivate my account to enjoy the new content, but unless it has something for end game outside the PvE raiding which I hate, than I won't be on the game for long.
videoxpg Xfire Miniprofile
  Hagrin

Novice Member

Joined: 8/10/06
Posts: 12

10/20/06 9:31:58 PM#14
Fact of the matter is that most players that quit the game is because they could not get ahead... AQ was a frustration for many T2 geared players, Naxx is even more of a frustration... The game is easy as in solo play but end game is not as easy, at least now it isnt...

All those who quit and sold accounts will and can say they went to all the instances etc, but most of them lie, they cant even kill huhuran and they get fed up with it... The pvp in wow is lame, but overall its the best western MMORPG out there... All the other MMO's are grind or lame, or just plain repetitive, like all the korean engine ones...

WoW at the moement is as good as it gets, its a perfect combination of all the elements of a MMORPG, it lacks a bit in some departments but not alot, thats why it has the bigest player base.

TBC will bring a new way of viewing the game, the mechanics are sliglty diferent... now theres no more %tages, its all numbers for all stats. easy for someone to calculate now, les mind bogling...

Those who complain about 10 year olds its as simple as not playing with them... If youre not a tolerant person what the hell are you doing playing an MMORPG then? Buy Oblivion and ave fun...

Ive played most MMORPG's and i too wanted to quit wow, but at the end of all its still the best one, granted i didnt start playing mmo's with wow, i started with ultima, then passed to FFX11 then EQ as well as EQ2, then i met WOW... After that i tried all the korean engine copyers (what a piece of crap) they have no genuine feeling, they all play the same, have same UI, and almost look the same, thats all crap...

The only game that kinda comes close is EVE, which i still play but cmon, training ofline? you really start playing like in 3 months...

You can all criticize WoW, but the best is the best, and thats irrefutable...

Just remember, Warcraft is a franchise... And the story is as good as LOTR...

So please, go with your "i quit wow" storys somewhere else... We all know you will be coming back, unless youre and asian grinder, in that case dont play in the western market, thank you...

Hagrin
  Morkreth

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/06
Posts: 10

10/20/06 10:58:25 PM#15

hmmm interesting responses.

The only common theme I see here is no new gameplay and that nothing coming is new and getting more gear is lame.The problem lies in the very way they handled the game. I have to ask one simple question...

WHERE THE F*&$ IS CHRIS METZN?????

Whoever is in control of this game has no idea what warcraft is. They ran with an EQ style theme and went too epic too fast and now they are just making stuff up (this is why pvp is none too hot, just luke warm). Come on do you seriously believe that draenai story after all you know about the RTS series? If you do then you can go QQ more with the blizzard devs that they couldnt have their pandas because its illegal to kill them, even digital ones, in china.

I quit not only because of the gameplay was an insult to our intelligence but because your not playing warcraft anymore. Your playing a cartoon version of Everquest. They even hired a few of those guys . This burning crusade is completely different than what its true storyline was.

I guarentee you 100% that they can now release WC4 in RTS as it will not interfere with TBC at all (/end sarcasm).

You cant take something as large and iconic as Warcraft and make a cheap knockoff with subtitles. If you do that then you get the current end result. You cant fix it, its too late. Its former glory will forever be lost. It will never truely go away as its still a pretty decent game but you cant call it warcraft anymore.

  Cry0

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/09/06
Posts: 44

10/20/06 11:01:47 PM#16

 


Originally posted by Hagrin

All those who quit and sold accounts will and can say they went to all the instances etc, but most of them lie, they cant even kill huhuran and they get fed up with it...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~darcher/wowaccount/hunterwbow.jpg server first k thx.

 

The reasons instances like naxx are frustrating is because its boring and no one wants to put the effort out for another dungeon crawl.  Make an outside instance or something different but ffs, Molten core, BWL, AQ, NAxx.. lets walk through caves for 5 hours a night that sounds like fun!!  They call AQ 20 man outside just because there is no roof but hell you still walk on a path your forced to follow because of 100 foot walls on either side of you.

Why not make any sort of instance like a plane from EQ where a good guild can just go kill the bosses they want instead of having to kill all the stupid crap no one cares about. (ie all of molten core except rag) .  Make the final bosses hard or make it so you have to kill the other ones for everyone to get items to fight the final boss so a guild can only accomplish killing the boss by beating all the other ones but after they have proven themselves dont have to repeat the same thign every week just to kill the final boss they want.  Wow is so boring because there is no way to go about things differently, there is only 1 way from boss X to boss Y in instances.  You kill one boss and your like ok what next.. well.. the tunnel only goes this way and there is trash so lets kill it untill we get to another boss mob. 

Sure encounters are slightly different at first but once the spoilers come out everyone realizes they all do the same thing for each boss and soon it becomes just a boring 5 hour run every weds night with the hope of something you want dropping off the last boss you kill.  If you think thats fun and challanging then good for you, i didnt, i sold my account, and i havent regretted it.

  Ian_Hawkmoon

Novice Member

Joined: 2/19/04
Posts: 366

Sweet Water & Light Laughter
Till Next We Meet.

10/21/06 12:43:19 AM#17

Originally posted by Cry0

 


Originally posted by Hagrin

All those who quit and sold accounts will and can say they went to all the instances etc, but most of them lie, they cant even kill huhuran and they get fed up with it...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~darcher/wowaccount/hunterwbow.jpg server first k thx.

 

The reasons instances like naxx are frustrating is because its boring and no one wants to put the effort out for another dungeon crawl.  Make an outside instance or something different but ffs, Molten core, BWL, AQ, NAxx.. lets walk through caves for 5 hours a night that sounds like fun!!  They call AQ 20 man outside just because there is no roof but hell you still walk on a path your forced to follow because of 100 foot walls on either side of you.

Why not make any sort of instance like a plane from EQ where a good guild can just go kill the bosses they want instead of having to kill all the stupid crap no one cares about. (ie all of molten core except rag) .  Make the final bosses hard or make it so you have to kill the other ones for everyone to get items to fight the final boss so a guild can only accomplish killing the boss by beating all the other ones but after they have proven themselves dont have to repeat the same thign every week just to kill the final boss they want.  Wow is so boring because there is no way to go about things differently, there is only 1 way from boss X to boss Y in instances.  You kill one boss and your like ok what next.. well.. the tunnel only goes this way and there is trash so lets kill it untill we get to another boss mob. 

Sure encounters are slightly different at first but once the spoilers come out everyone realizes they all do the same thing for each boss and soon it becomes just a boring 5 hour run every weds night with the hope of something you want dropping off the last boss you kill.  If you think thats fun and challanging then good for you, i didnt, i sold my account, and i havent regretted it.


OK, I will admit that is has been a while since I have played other MMO's...  But can you name other MMO's that are not basically what you have described above?
  Cry0

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/09/06
Posts: 44

10/21/06 1:17:26 AM#18

EQ, FFXI, Shadowbane (when it came out at first and wasnt at its current powerlvl state), CoH ( requires grouping although the mish are all very linear as far as i can tell i quit after lvl 20).

I enjoy grouping from llvl 5ish- whatever.  It makes you interact with people and make friends early in the game. 

Before someone goes omg you like grinds go play asian mmos.

1)There are 2 different types of grind games, there is a grind game like EQ or FFXI where you group with people and everyone goes through the pain of leveling together.  Its a group experience.. you level and people say grats. 

2)Then there is a game like WoW where you login and run off to find some mobs your level .. and start killing.  That is a really boring grind.  Even though WoW was a lot quicker to 60 than EQ or FFXi was to their level caps, it was a basicaly solo grind and if it wasnt quick i doubt half as many people would have even bothered getting to max level just because there was such minimal interaction.

Honestly WoW is the most generic Asian cookie cutter go out and grind all day MMO iv played.  All MMOs have some sort of grind but when i think Asian grind i think of games like archlord and WoW where it is, go get bandages/potions whatever and go off by yourself and kill untill you run out.  EQ ffxi (although japanese) and shadowbane were all MMO experiences where you started your day off by going to an exp spot and spamming lfg untill you got a group then sitting at a spawn and grinding levels away with other people.  If the group worked well you often found yourself grouping with the same people again when you got on and eventualy joining guilds with those people because you know you all work well as a team.

In an end game raid oriented game like wow and eq i 100% prefer the slow grind with people than a quicker solo grind.  It makes you meet people, learn to play your class with a group ect.  If people were forced to group in wow then priests would (i can only guess) have to play a support spec as opposed to a dps spec for example.  Then you wouldnt end up at lvl 60 with people crying about wantin to be a shaodow priest in raids or a feral druid, bm hunter, hemo rogue ect ect ect.

And as far as an MMO being more open and not have everything walled in.  Shadowbane was totaly open, no zone walls you could run north west south east whereever you felt like and get places.  I never played AO but i heard it was similar.  When i complain about WoW instances being too linear its because they all follow a very generic indoor dungeon format. 


~~~~~~~~UBER SECRET DUNGEON CREATION FORMAT !!!!!! ( TOP SECRET ) ~~~~~~

1. Made a maze? ( yes) (no)   

** if you answered no, your dungeon is too confusing for players as they wont know where to go so try adding some walls, paths, arrows or flashing lights saying boss this way!! **

2. Did you put in large rooms sparaticaly that connect parts of the maze?  ( yes ) (no )

3. Did you place boss mob in the rooms, maybe with another mob or two called guards? ( Yes ) ( No )

4. Did you place trash mobs in connecting tunnels that hardly drop anything and serve as a way to make instances take longer? ( Yes ) ( no )  

** again if you answered no, then your dungeon wont take the minimum 3 hours to clear and would be too easy because boss fights alone arent challanging, clearing  groups of goblins, gnolls, orcs, spiders on the other hand provide the raider with a challange worthy of only the strongest adventurer. **


Blizzard could have taken a more EQ approach and made the trash drop the set armor while the bosses drop more unique armor/jewelry/weapons... But no.. They made trash either drop nothing, or have a < 1% chance to drop an epic that is usualy a lesser version of a boss drop. Or drop an item used to craft things that are pretty much useless because they require a rediculous amount of items to craft and arent as good as the items droped by the bosses in the same place as the trash.  Trash in MC for example could have dropped all the lava cores and core leather ect to make epic crafted set armor that was better than the boss drops.. then people would have incentive to enjoy trash killing because there was a reward from killing enough of it.  But instead the items crafted were mediocre FR gear ect that most people never even used because you would be stuck on bosses for months if you waited around to get full sets of crafted gear from the drops off the trash. (if that makes any sense im really bad at rambling when typing.)

As far as a game where you dont have to clear hours of trash/bosses no one cares about for 1 boss.  EQ had plenty of bosses such as the original EQ dragons, Kunark bosses such as sathir and trak ect that once spawned didnt take 3 hours of trash pulls to get to.  WoW on the other hand put T2 pants on the final boss of MC so a guild had to run MC every week to get people their T2 pants even though everything else in the instance was basicaly DE trash.

Duno what else to say, i hate to compare WoW with EQ because they arent the same games but it disapointed me that WoW couldnt do anything interesting with raids besides trash trash trash boss trash trash trash.

  User Deleted
10/21/06 4:00:19 AM#19
I agree with the Lepidus.

What would make me come back is player housing. Then you have something to do, some place you can have your trophies, etc. And loot wouldn't only need to be weapons and armors in that case. You could even have different crafting professions then (got to get furniture from somehwere :D).
But I have the feeling that won't happen, so.... I had my share of WoW, I miss the good times I had there, but they ain't coming back :(
  Isometrix

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 252

10/21/06 4:09:08 AM#20

People don't quit because an instance is too hard to beat. People quit because when they'd finally beat the instance 2 months from now, all they'd get is a few more stats and a new instance they'll be spending the next 2 months in.

The preview is right-on. People already bored with the game will get excited until 70, then fall into the drag again. The fanboys will remain the fanboys. WoW is fantastic for what it did - making MMOs a popular genre, but the content it adds comes far too slow, and is never anything we haven't really seen before.

What made me quit not too long ago is the lack of things to do. You're standing there in your fully epic set and the only thing you can do to improve your character is wait until 39 guildmates logon and you waste another night in another dungeon you've been to over and over again hoping that this time you'll be the one winning an item. And the irony is, after 5 hours of raiding, once you finally get that item, all it does is add 45 mana and 10 health.

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