Thank you very much for asking the SOE question.  I am one of those former SWG players that decided not to buy the game because of SOE's involvement.  It was really sad actually, almost all of our guild was looking forward to reuniting in Vanguard, however, once the SOE/Sigil partnership was annouced, our interest in the game dissappeared over night. 

For me personally, Sigils assurances that SOE won't be making any design decisions, even if I believed it, simply isn't enough.  By subscribing to Vanguard I would be paying SOE some of my subscription dollars.  Because of SOE's conduct with regard SWG, I am not going to do business with them, even if that means not playing a game I would otherwise have loved.

As for Sigils assurances, while I believe them that is the current argreement.  However, that doesn't mean it will always be that way.   Since getting burned by SOE in SWG, if there is any significant reason not to trust the developer, I am simply not going to take the risk of what happened in SWG (years worth of effort erased overnight) happening again. Even Sigils's in house lawyer concedded that wouldnt' rule out selling Vanguard to SOE in a few years.

It really is unfortunate as I think I really would have enjoyed playing Vanguard.  I guess it wasn't meant to be.  I would wish you luck, but since sucess for Vanguard means sucess for SOE, I can't do that either.

"They are saying is that while it is their goal to create a challenging game, it is also important that players have fun. It is their job to find a balance between the two. Where that balance lies, we are told, will depend on how much challenge the market will bare."

I have to point out that line. As it reads to me "How mush of a time sink people will put up with".

I’m sure ill get flamed. But that’s how it reads to me going by the information on the site about the game and the article. The more i read about the game, the more it sounds like a job. Its a shame too.

I will stll try it when it comes out, and ill make my final judgment then on if this is a game that i CAN play given my lifestyle.

First of all. While I understand that people were abused by SOE while playing SWG, if VG looks like a game you would "love" as you say then not playing it simply because SOE is making some money off of it is stupid. If you know you'll like a game, why not play it. I understand not subscribing to a game SOE is making, has made, or has complete control of but this just isn't the case. I am a huge SOE hater and SWG player myself but when they talked about how no other publisher has experience like SOE I knew they were right. Sorry but not playing a game you could love because SOE has something to do with it is just silly.

Secondly, this is definately going to be a more hardcore mmo. But about the housing thing, if people devote more time, they are going to get more rewards understandably. Why wouldn't they? Why should someone who only plays 10 hours a week get as many rewards as someone who plays 30? While I definately don't have enough time to be playing 30 a week I still understand why hardcore gamers could get more than casual, and its not a big deal.

I consider my relationship to be at least equal, if not better, with SoE than what it was with Verant.  From an EQ-experience, SoE is responsible for the AAs and LDoN...which completely outmatch everything else in EQ imo.

The game will be judged for itself from my perspective.  When I repeat that a non-raiding server is a must, I really mean it.  I would raise a few questions about FUN, see, if for an adventurer something is FUN, asking him to be part of a diplomacy system is edgy at best.  I am willing to give them the credit of the doubt, I can endure a LOT of tedium anyway, from a personnal approach.  But again, I am not sure they understand the FUN part enough, yet, grouping will be fun...if there is a non-raiding server, so even if everything else is flawed, I would prolly be happy and enduring all these downtime and tedium experience (unless they manage to be more horrible than raiding, I just can't see something that bad, but it must be possible).  Making diplomacy FUN for a grouper is a challenge, I am willing to give them the chance, mostly because I can bear a critical mistake and a LOT of tedium if they misshap it.

EPIC is all good, as long as it doesn't replace the FUN for a player.  Me, I can deal with a LOT of downtime and tedium, even with PvP...but won't deal with raiding even 5 minutes...I am quite unsure they understand that well (SoE does understand this tiny little part), see, enforcing a gameplay can rightfully be saw as tedium...anyway, if they put a non-raiding server, I will try it, if they don't, I will not even bother.

I will not defend SOE. I am one that never got SWG just because I saw how there were problems at release and never expected it to get better. I blame Lucas and his company for the problem more than I ever will SOE and no one can offer me a reason to change my mind. Lucas has a stranglehold on the Star Wars franchise and everything has to go through him.

Now as to Vanguard, it sounds like a game that I am really interested in. The whole thing about needing to earn the rights to things sounds like what I am interested in. I have to say that something that won't come easy sounds fun. A lot of people talk about graphics being more realistic then why can't an MMO need more of a challenge even if they seem like just time sinks. If there is a reward for doing the time then I have no problem with that. This sounds more like what I want in a game more and more.

I love when game developers do a demo of the game for an interviewer from the point of view of someone on a dragon mount and probably wearing high end gear. Look how much fun the game is once you have all this stuff! Of course, it may take you years (and probably never) to get that stuff, so what kind of a demo is that? Dark & Light probably rocks in a demo where you have everything cool in the game already.

Next time, why not say "let me experience the game from the perspective of a low level, casual character wearing crappy gear." Play that way for a while. Then write about how "fun" the game is.

If you think you'll like the game, might as well give it a try.  I very much dislike SOE, didn't like what they did with EQ2, etc..  But I also realize that SOE has the money and equipment power, plus the experience for running multiple MMOG's throughout a 4-5 year span.  The guy in the interview is right, SOE has more experience than most any other companies out there for running MMOG's.  While we all have our own opinions about SOE's design decisions in games, it's good to hear Vanguard will be manning the design decisions.

I'll reserve my judgement on Vanguard later when I actually get to play it.  But I"ll definately give it a try, it can't be THAT bad :D

Nope...

Not falling for it.  Brad sold his dream to SOE so the game wouldn't be laggy?? OMG, did the man ever play EQ2 and try to move in Qeynos Harbor?

Pre launch hype!  Rest assured a large part of subscription dollars will still end up in SOE's hands!

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Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

"They are saying is that while it is their goal to create a challenging game, it is also important that players have fun. It is their job to find a balance between the two. Where that balance lies, we are told, will depend on how much challenge the market will bare."

I have to point out that line. As it reads to me "How mush of a time sink people will put up with".

I’m sure ill get flamed. But that’s how it reads to me going by the information on the site about the game and the article. The more i read about the game, the more it sounds like a job. Its a shame too.

I will stll try it when it comes out, and ill make my final judgment then on if this is a game that i CAN play given my lifestyle.

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I have to agree with you myself.  Brad's EQ was the king of the timesinks.  I admit I loved playing it when it came out, but I just refuse to play anything where TIME becomes a needed skill.

As for $OE's involvement.  I just do not believe them when they say there that $OE will not be making any decisions for them.  They can make any claims they want, only time will tell.

I may give this a shot, a few months after it comes out and I can get a better sense of what they're doing. But personally, I'll never play another raid/time centric game again.   And I'm a long ways from being willing to give any money to $OE again also.

I am not judging the game. I simply choose to not do business with SOE, at all.  That's a choice I have made based on SOE coduct.  SOE's conduct with regard to the NGE was at best unethical.  I don't want to do business with a company like that.  Unfortunately that decision has consequences and not playing Vanguard is one of them.

And its perfectly fair to Sigil.  They have admitted they knew this decision was going to be controversial.  They made the business decision that the advantages of partnering with SOE was worth the upsetting a good poriton of the fans.  They are smart guys and I am sure they know their own company and what's in their best interest.  I don't have a particular problem with Sigil per se, and if they one day decide to sever their relationship with SOE I might give Vanguard a try.  Likewise if Sigil makes a game where they are not affiliated with SOE for that game, I'd also be willing to give that game a try.

I'm just not going to reward SOE for its bad behavior by doing business with them.

If you truly understood the magnitude and scope of SOE's actions with regard to the SOE, I don't think you would think my decision was silly, even if you still disagreed with that. 

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Originally posted by Valentina
Very good article...


To all the people who refuse to give it a chance just because SoE will market it, it just seems super silly...The game is going to be great, the game has somthing for everyone, and the game is developed by Sigil, NOT SoE in any way. While I understand everyone being upset at SoE about SWG, that's one big mistake, in a whole companies life, why can't you just get over it, and move on?  That was YEARS ago...it's EXTREMELY SILLY to not play somthing just because it has an SoE tag on the box, SoE has a VERY good marketing team, and that's what Sigil is working with them for, it has nothing to do with developing the game, yes, they will make a little profit off it as it is a business deal....but seriously, if the game looks good to you, give it a try. SoE isn't touching development, it's been stated numerous times over and over, and it isn't fair to the guys at Sigil, for you to judge the game before it's even had a chance to go live yet, just because of SoE marketing it. That is, I say again, totally silly.

I am not a huge fan of SoE, either. But I am definantly going to play this game, reguardless, since I understand mistakes happen, bad decisions can be made with any company, weather it's SoE, Square-Enix, Sigil, Blizzard, EA/Mythic etc... Had SWG been with any other devs the same thing could of happend, and you would be blaming and refusing games from those companies instead......Please just get OVER IT, move on, and enjoy other games.

 

Turbine dont forget Turbine!!!!  

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