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Originally posted by Minimum

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Originally posted by Lepidus

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Originally posted by vesavius

Objectivety should be the first rule of any journalist.

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I must say, I'm a bit baffled. What part of the article does anyone think lacks objectivity?

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I thought it was pretty generic myself.    But some people just look for reasons to be offended.

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It just seemed bland, uninformed, and lacked any interest or point to me. Like I say, I am willing to put this down to the interviewer just being a poor writer, but I don't think thats the case from other stuff I have read. The lack of interesst for the subject matter oozes through. I don't want to attack anyone here, just calling it as I read it.

hehe I'm not offended btw, trust me. But I am allowed to have opinions on an article, especially when the site invites such opinions.

Thx.

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Originally posted by sly220
Great add Some boats and its no longer a cookie cut game.... great job

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/boggle

You don't read much do you?

Bigger and varied continents loaded with content, considerably different and more dynamic combat system, dynamic weather that effects players, fully fleshed out crafting sys, diplomacy sys, free flying mounts, variety of travel modes, classes and races that never existed before in other games and tons of them.  Thousands of quests on release.  Devs who have planned out the next 5+ years of development...

I know it may sound weird to you...but it's REALLY hard to know what makes a game unique if you never actually bother to find out.  Try it, it works.  ;)

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Originally posted by vesavius

It just seemed bland, uninformed, and lacked any interest or point to me. Like I say, I am willing to put this down to the interviewer just being a poor writer, but I don't think thats the case from other stuff I have read. The lack of interesst for the subject matter oozes through. I don't want to attack anyone here, just calling it as I read it.

hehe I'm not offended btw, trust me. But I am allowed to have opinions on an article, especially when the site invites such opinions.

Thx.

hehe I'm not offended btw, trust me. But I am allowed to have opinions on an article, especially when the site invites such opinions.

Thx.

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Or to word differently, if the interview was more in depth people like sly220 "perhaps" wouldn't post what they did?  Though in all honesty I guess to me it was a short and informal interview, and well... that's kinda what you get from short informal interviews, a quick snippet of an aspect or two.

If it had been a 4+ pager formal interview scheduled in advance, etc. I guess I would have expected more.  This website in general seems to be more friendly to games that generate profit for them (which is understandable, business is business).  So I wouldn't take it too hard though it does seem to mislead people with a tangible lack of info.

The counter argument is that people who really do want to learn more about the game can always go to more detailed sites anyway.

At the end of the day people will make their own preconceived notions and then the game will launch this will all be water under the bridge anyway.  ;)

I can tell you a few reasons why low hype will help this game into legitimacy.IGE and its cohorts are sitting by waiting for the next big hyped game to move in with there botters and start selling offline items and gold.L2/WOW/FFXI/MAplestory/EQ2 just to name a few are massivly botted everyday and bring in millions of real life dollars.This isn't even mentioning the large amount of sites that sell there cheat/duping information in the form of a monthly registration cost.Xunleashed is one the biggies that like to feed the lil kiddies who feel there accomplishing something in a game by cheating.Well i guess they are accomplishing something[ruining the integrity and design of a game through cheating and inflating the game economy.]

Too much hype also brings in the immature little school kids that i found WOW was full of.Last time i rejoined EQ2 there were quite a few moved over from WOW into that game.I quickly cancelled my subscription for the third time after only 3 days.

I might also add that interviews are often bogus because as in sports [real life]harsh interviews get your site/company negative feedback and no interview next time around.It doesn't leave the consumer with much to go on except positive hype created by the game designer and of course the false biased hype of the gamer who knows so little of the game.For the most part we rely on the company behind the game and anything the producer has done in the past,but again this isn't a fair way to judge a game.

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Originally posted by Wizardry

I might also add that interviews are often bogus because as in sports [real life]harsh interviews get your site/company negative feedback and no interview next time around.It doesn't leave the consumer with much to go on except positive hype created by the game designer and of course the false biased hype of the gamer who knows so little of the game.For the most part we rely on the company behind the game and anything the producer has done in the past,but again this isn't a fair way to judge a game.

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Originally posted by jimmyman99

Also please refrain from the doom-saying or glory-praising. Untill VSOH lifts NDA none of the leaked info can be trusted. We dont need another flame war waging on our forums.

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Difference being that none of the info I (and many of the positive oriented people) posted was "leaked" it comes from the proverbial "horse's mouth" ;)

Dev quotes, dev interviews, official faq, official lore, etc.  And there's A LOT of it if you've been following for a while.  :D

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Originally posted by holifeet

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Originally posted by Jadar

I'll say it again, "Vanguard: everything that sucked about Everquest, taken to the next level".

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And everything that was so fantastic about Everquest, taken beyond the next level to near nirvana-esq.

You can try as much as you like but you won't deter the true fans. You won't deter new fans because it is obvious you are a mindless automon Jadar. There were a few things that weren't so great about Everquest but they popped up around PoP. What it did to my social life is perhaps the worst thing...but hey hey.

Sticking with Vanguard no matter what!!

Go Sigil Go!!!

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"...no matter what!!"

Who's the mindless automon here?  

Personally, I'm still leary of Vanguard. It DOES look like an EQ3 even if they don't want it to. You can't really ask people to ignore that fact, it's there. The first thing ANYone's going to notice about the game is how it looks. Gameplay, enjoyment, lasting power... these things come later. First impressions are unavoidable. To be honest, I had high hopes for Vanguard before SOE. I still have pretty high hopes for it though. Only now, I've made room for TCOS. I'm running about 50/50 these days with TCOS' artwork and gameplay slowly peaking my interest the closer it comes to release.

-Naaz.

One question i would like to see producers drilled with is there stance on and controlling cheating/botting ,because this more than anything is the worst blemish on every game now and in the future.This wouldn't need to be kept a secret.I for once want to hear a game come out and tell the public there GM's will be proactive and NOT reactive.It shouldn't be the job of players to provide proof,of the rampant cheating that goes on in games.

There are games now that use anti-cheat software and update them constantly.Gm's should be actively seeking out cheats and banning them for good,nevermind these lame 1/2 month bans.There should be built in programs that flag players with inordinate amounts of game money.Basically i want to hear a game tell uis they actually give a care and not just feed us the we are "against cheating and will take appropriate action against cheaters".

I am sick of IGE and it's subs ruining our games that are supposed to be fun.My idea of FUN,is not farming for a month to buy that one elite item that is priced higher than the stars because other gamers are buying from IGE.It starts a chain reaction of several players buying from IGE then the game economy is way outa whack and not the way the game designed it.

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Originally posted by Wizardry

One question i would like to see producers drilled with is there stance on and controlling cheating/botting ,because this more than anything is the worst blemish on every game now and in the future.This wouldn't need to be kept a secret.I for once want to hear a game come out and tell the public there GM's will be proactive and NOT reactive.It shouldn't be the job of players to provide proof,of the rampant cheating that goes on in games.

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I couldn't agree with you more on this.  Farmers have completely destroyed some of the games my wife and I have played, particularily Lineage 2.

There are several Vanguard dev quotes that specifically note that they have a lot of software they are building into VG to detect farming, bots, cheaters etc.  And that they plan to be relentless in persuing them.  It is VERY important to the devs to slow mudflation (which ruins the player economy) and farmers are a No. 1 cause of that. 

It absolutely amazes me how some people get a game stuck up their arse and they quickly become idiot FANS.  I've been playing online games since I started running my own BBS on 1200baud modems, I'm a HUGE supporter.  But I don't let my desire to find the "perfect game for me" (notice I didn't say you or everyone) blind me into being a XXX FAN.

I was lucky to get into EQ beta and I was overwhelmed at how great the game was.  Dumped my UO account with no regrets.  The game was a great deal of fun, the discovery, the exploration the community.  It was more then enough for most of my friends to deal with the problems (and yes the early game had its problems).  But IMHO something happened on the way to success.  The hardcore players where burning through content and were leaders in doing something that made Verant/Sony mad... they were innovating.  And no I don't mean people taking advantage of the exploits and pathing bugs and such.  They were coming up with unique angles and methods on encounters.  Devs reacted by bringing out the nerf bat and a vicious cycle started trying to force players down a particular path and keeping ahead of the hardcore players/guilds.  The majority of the paying customers (again IMHO) were left out of the equation and stopped having fun. 

The last few years of my EQ time was just spent waiting, hoping that something better would come along and grab my interest.  I was so fed up with EQ I only logged on for guild raids or just to chat.  Things had become so TIRESOME it wasn't worth my effort to try to do anything it just TOOK TOO LONG.  God forbid if I only had an hour or two or three to play.  Most of that time was used up with meaningless chores/travel/hassel.  I want to play someone to provide THAT tho me?

I'm 110% for exploration, exciting encounters, challenge, immersion, etc... but first and foremost I want TO HAVE FUN!  It seems many game devs have forgotten this concept.  Don't make me travel 30, 60, 90mins to get somewhere unless I'm getting something from my travels.  You want people to do the sneakernet make it FUN (don't ask me how) or at least something worth DOING.  Forcing it on me will quickly make it a boring chore.  If you have to code something into the game to force your players to do something to eat up time then you're not making a very fun game.  People spend hours raiding primarily for two reasons, 1. they have to and 2. they want to.  Make it so people want to do something.

Anyway sorry to get off point here.  You people that are RAVING (mad) about V:SoH need to get a reality check.  Go look at how EVERY game has been hyped and over hyped.  EVERYONE seems to have great ideas and blah blah blah.  Just having a unique/great idea/concept about an MMO doesn't automatically translate to a good let alone great game.  I'm not saying to be negative but don't blow your wad before you've even SEEN let alone played final code. 

Where is Dark and Light? (take a gander at those forums and see how blind those FANS where), how about Irth Online, Hero Online and to a lesser extent SWG (just to name a few)?  All i'm saying is keep at least a tenative foot based on reality.  I hope Vanguard is a GREAT game, but I feel they are catering to a pretty small minority and as much as you are now saying "thats fine we'll play it" the economics just doesn't make sense.  Plenty of niche games have gone under and plenty more are right on the edge.  In the next year or two you'll see those go under too. 

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Originally posted by Nnyan

It absolutely amazes me how some people get a game stuck up their arse and they quickly become idiot FANS.  I've been playing online games since I started running my own BBS on 1200baud modems, I'm a HUGE supporter.  But I don't let my desire to find the "perfect game for me" (notice I didn't say you or everyone) blind me into being a XXX FAN.

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I get annoyed by that in both directions.  For every die hard fan there is a die hard anti fan who "hates everything about x" or always has a reason (not neccesarily good or valid but some reason) why it is bad or will "fail" etc.

Then you get into "x game is the best" vs. "x game is the worst"  flame wars.

There are a lot of positive things going for VG, and a reasonable chunk of negative things.  Currently I feel pretty optomistic about it on the whole but we'll all have a much more solid idea of things around beta 5 when the curtains come down.  Until then its a combination of official info combined with a massive dose of negative/positive/and pure speculation. 

A lot of us (I know I do) try to stick to official info only and try to note if/when we're speculating etc.  When people go off on love/hate rants missing actual game info it makes it hard for someone else to seperate the wheat from the chaff.

Many people argue (and some validly) that official info is inherently bias.  Well, that's always true to a degree.  So you take it with a grain of salt, look for numbers or raw details when you can and wait for the NDA to go down and get your hands wet before getting overly excited.

I don't think its the holy grail of MMOs...I don't think there could be such a thing as a holy grail of MMOs for that matter.

But currently I think most of the people I play MMOs with will probably enjoy it based on what we know so far.  And most of us will be giving beta 5 a whirl so we'll have a pretty darn good idea of if its worth a $50 shot.  The other argument for playing is making a statement for the MMO industry in general.  People want challenge, challenge doesn't have to = grind nor does it have to = raid.  I really enjoyed WoW, but I rarely felt challenged by it unless I was soloing or duoing group content.  In theory VG plans to give serious challenge and diversity as well as end game content to all aspects of the game, grouping, raiding, soloing, crafting and diplomacy.  Time will tell, but it would be nice to feel in a group doing group content that I have to stay frosty because the situation tactically and strategically demands it.  And not frosty as in click one or two buttons but actually have to actively make decisions durring combat/crafting/parley etc.  With an overiding focus on fun and functionality. 

This seems to be the goals of the devs.  We'll see how it shapes up.  I'd like to see a successful implementation of it all.  So I'm optomistic, but that's a bit different from wearing blinders.  ;)

Its a lot to promise and a lot to pull off properly, if some of it falls short and needs to be reworked I won't be surprised, if the game itself fails I will be but it doesn't mean I'd ignor it.  /shrug

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Originally posted by knight1138
One thing to remeber guys with these boats we can be attack on them and such. I will look for the offical thread on this but its definitely been confirmed ...so no more boring boat travel!

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