The class system is dieing. It is not they way of the future. More and more MMO's need to be more open ended and allow more options for players to play they way THEY wish to play, cobbling together skills they wish to have.

The class system is also what has lead to this notion of "end game", Endgame, technically in a mmo doesn’t exist, its a lie created by players (This is what they preceive, but they have not seen all content, its just that they are gated from particapating in said missed content becouse of level or power restrictions) . For some reason, developers are feeding this term.

More open systems of play, wit more options on how you wish to play with be the future of mmo's. Levels have only ever caused issues with development, such as "end game" and "lack of content".

The use of a class system from DnD (PnP not online) was a mistake, in The original DnD systems the GM created the content, this was a never ending supply. In an MMO this is not the case, the content is static, and never changing regardless of the players ability or actions, hence the reason you see the "lack of content" statement. In PnP DnD this would never have been a phrase used, because that state was imposable to achieve, due to the fact that the game (The GM) would adapt to you.

The only saving grace from this is the skill based system, where instead of the game adapting to you, you adapt to the game, and the situation you are in, That cant be done with linear progression of skills and levels.

2c
/flame suit on

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Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

The
class system is dieing. It is not they way of the future. More and more MMO's
need to be more open ended and allow more options for players to play they way
THEY wish to play, cobbling together skills they wish to have.
The class system is also what has lead to this notion of "end game",
Endgame, technically in a mmo doesn’t exist, its a lie created by players (This is what they preceive, but they have not seen all content, its just that they are gated from particapating in said missed content becouse of level or power restrictions) . For
some reason, developers are feeding this term.
More open systems of play, wit more options on how you wish to play with be the
future of mmo's. Levels have only ever caused issues with development, such as
"end game" and "lack of content".

The use of a class system from DnD (PnP not online) was a
mistake, in The original DnD systems the GM created the content, this was a
never ending supply. In an MMO this is not the case, the content is static, and
never changing regardless of the players ability or actions, hence the reason
you see the "lack of content" statement. In PnP DnD this would never
have been a phrase used, because that state was imposable to achieve, due to
the fact that the game (The GM) would adapt to you.
The only saving grace from this is the skill based system, where instead of the
game adapting to you, you adapt to the game, and the situation you are in, That
cant be done with linear progression of skills and levels.
2c
/flame suit on

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I very much hope that you're right, I deeply dislike the class system and am hopeful that this old lame system will die sooner rather then later. I beleive people will always prefer the freedom of a skill based system. I think the only real reason the class system has existed this long is its easier on developers, and the money-men (the ruin of all good gaming) are always pushing to get that product out the door 3 months ago (and at well before it's actually ready to be shipped). But then it's also high time that the box-on-the-shelf model of selling games was thrown out the door.

I agree with you.  The Class / Level System is old and uneventful.  The best 2 mmorpgs i've played were Ultima Online and SWG (early on).  Neither had neither class restrictions or a level system.

You could literally make any type of character you wanted.  Crafter/Swordsman, Entertainer/Rifleman etc.  So many possibilities.   The skill based systems were much more fun to tweak your character with. 

Since they didnt have leveling, anyone could join the game and not feel far behind.   In UO once your characters were set you could then enjoy playing and interacting in the world.  New players could catch up within months and there was no need to have to player 24/7 just to keep up with guys at lvl 60.  Your werent buying expansions to gain from lvl 60-70 and then 70-80.  You bought the new expansions for new content that was geared at making the world more interesting, not increase the grind. 

See the Class system goes with a leveling system.  Its tough to have one without the other.  However a skill based character without restrictions on what professions you can choose allows for a more open world without a leveling grind. 

IMO Skill based characters without a leveling system is much more enjoyable and allows for a less stressful player base.  New players can catch up quicker and don't have play ever second of the day to enjoy the game. 

You dont want to work on making a 50 lvl fighter.  You want to have your character set and then concentrate on the content the game provides.  Whether it be quests, wars, raids, pvp, pve etc.  Thats the type of game I enjoyed the most and feel most would prefer.  I just don't see the thrill in leveling a guy from lvl 1 to 90.  Who cares what level you are.   I just want everyone to have their characters set and capable of interacting with everyone else. 

I think the author is mistaken in listing only 3 core classes.  There have always been 4 core classes.  Along with the fighter, cleric, and mage, there have always been rogues.  Rogues have been part of these games from pen and paper, through MUDS, and into today's MMORPGs.  I dont understand why the author thinks the rogue class is somehow new.

As for the level system vs. the skills system discussion above, I would have to say I would opt for the level system if I had to choose one over the other.  However, I would prefer a combination of the two, whereby each level grants you a certain number of skill points to spend. 

-eosa-

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Originally posted by aschmidt2001 
  Seeing mages running around with plate mail and warriors using high level offensive magic always spiced up the experience. 

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i am going with the anti-class club here.

another detial is that classes are the main reason we have levels in games (because that determines how good you are AS that class), a factor which usually breaks any PvP expirience:

once you know the end of the fight before it starts (just be seeing who has the higher level), then PvP, a potential exciting expirience, becomes a hirarchy of griefing: people killing people in lesser levels.

this is less of a factor in large scale wars, but still is.

the combination of those two classic D&D factors, classes and pvp, just don't transilate into mmo. they are the major reasons for terms such as "end game content" (when the game isn't soppose to have an end), people thinking about pvp as a griefing tool instead of a gameplay expirience, and ofcourse, the worst notion of all: the tredmill.

Errr...I am sorry but...this writter...he doesn't seem like mastering his topics to me, no offense meant.

Rogue, a new class?  Rogues have always been a vital part of old EQ, not to mention that Thiefs have been a part of old D&D and thereby they have been in all type of MMOs, with rogues names variation and so on (a rogue is an offensive melee character while a thief is usually not very melee at all).

He also fails to mention any form of non-healing, non-damaging, non-tanking supports class.  Again, in old EQ, the enchanter class was the second most popular class just after cleric, yet there was far more clerics than chanters available, which result in groups fighting over the chanters ressources.

Pets class, he favors automatically beastmaster-type...*shrug*.  I think the writer play a LOT of WoW and very little of others MMOs, or that he forgot them.  EverQuest is hardly new and was the most popular MMO in the west for a LONG time.

The fact many newer MMOs seems like they don't have place for buffers class doesn't mean it isn't there and available for any devs team looking to have variety in class.  Variety leads to different grouping experience, which in turn increase the replayability of the game a LOT.  Not only on the aspect of what a player can play, but also on what a player can experience.  WoW take an approach figuring that 6 or 7 class was plenty, as the player will not create more than 6 or 7 characters, this is completely ignoring and discounting the fact that peoples will group only with that little amount of variety, which in turn means far less variations in groups type (a smaller group size help this approach a lot, imagine groups of 6 or 8 with only that amount of classes).  I want to underline again, in red, just how nice the buffing system in DAoC was (maybe incomplete, but I saw the basics and honestly, that is the single feature from DAoC that I remember the most clearly as been nice).

For example, in old EQ, having 2 characters of the same class was something uncommon.  Having 4 characters in two class or 3 in 1 class in the same group was extremely rare.  In WoW, having 2 characters of the same class is frequent.  3 characters of the same class is merely uncommon in WoW.  This leads to far less diversity, far less replayability.  Combine with a smaller grind (nothing wrong there) it make sure that the replayability of the game is much smaller than a game like EQ.

Personnally I believe in the class system, be it in a way like WoW/EQ/DAoC or in a way like CoH.  Skills are good and I will not turn away from a MMO with skills, but...class have many grouping edges.  First, everyone know what are your basic abilities, which help a LOT to build a group.  Second, everyone specialised into a role they personnally enjoy, which helps create bond and friendship...and interdependancy (even if solo is great).

Finally, as to the comment a fighter is dealing low damage, that is true in the MMORPGs, but that is not true in the RPGs at large, where the fighter deal a LOT of damage in the conventional RPGs.

And I didn't even bring the "hybrid" portion, which is nearly completely out of a game like WoW.

3 archetypes are nice. really. but only as a presets for new players unfamiliar with all skills.
the skill system of "The Elder Scrolls" serie and it's leveling system is the best I've seen

btw I personally think 3 archetypes are not fighter/healer/mage, but fighter/rogue/magic-user instead

imagine 3 coordinates in 3D space - fighting skills/magic attunement/stealth skills and a player subset of skills he uses - like a point in that space. so one can be jack-of-all-trades but with limited skills in each area or pure class with unparalleled capabilites.

The four classic fantasy arch-types are fighter, mage, thief, healer.

One big advantage for devleopers in using classes is they can be modelled and balanced using spreadsheets, which is something you cant do for a class less system. So that makes it a lot easier to balance a game for PvP using classes.

In addition as someone else mentioned classes fit people into roles, so if you need specific roles for specific missions you know who to look for. It also means people know generally what their role is and to some degree what other people will expect them to do.

Having levels provides goals for people to work towards, and a yard stick for them to compare themselves to others.

There are ways to provide more freedom using classes - you can have a dual class system (aka Guild Wars, Heroes Journey) or a hybrid class/skill system where you can develop certain skills within your class and you choose which skills to develop.

Mages not being able to wear platemail is not a fault of the class system, its a fault of how games implement their equipment. Take a look at Heroes Journey - you will be able to have mages in platemail, warriors in rags if you want.

I should point out now - that playing pen & paper role-playing games - my favourites were Runequest and Call of Cthulu both classless - skill systems. Both great games.

One big problem I see in class games is this kill monsters to get loot and experience. I think class systems in general would be way better if there was no experience from killing monsters, and the only experience was from quests.

I also think MMORPG's in general would be better if monsters dropped realistic treasure - hides, bones etc instead of gold, bows swords (unless of course those monsters are using bows and swords).

Online I havent played a game with a skill only system. I have played Guild Wars - and find its dual class system very flexibile and providing many different ways to play the same class due to the skill selection.

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Originally posted by Eosa

I think the author is mistaken in listing only 3 core classes.  There have always been 4 core classes.  Along with the fighter, cleric, and mage, there have always been rogues.  Rogues have been part of these games from pen and paper, through MUDS, and into today's MMORPGs.  I dont understand why the author thinks the rogue class is somehow new.

As for the level system vs. the skills system discussion above, I would have to say I would opt for the level system if I had to choose one over the other.  However, I would prefer a combination of the two, whereby each level grants you a certain number of skill points to spend. 

-eosa-

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Heheh totaly right. Rogues ( or dont forget they started as thieves in original D&D) where always there.
Basically in newer MMO's they are just > close combat - hight damage dealer - low armor , opposed to fighter ( tank ) close combat - low damage - high armor

In today MMOs you actually have this specific evolved generic classes

Tank , ranged damage dealer , healer , buffer/de buffer , pet class and close combat damage dealer ...

 rogues ability to stealth (again taken from original thief class) is proving dificult to cope with for many MMOs
also traps disabling and scouting seems to be largely ignored aswell (to much to code i guess)

Like everybody i largely agree on classless system with no levels - but the main reason why mmos go Class/level is the balancing game. The game designers are just not good enough to manage to balance game without it.

Lastly i would like to add Guild Wars to the list of evolved class systems.

In GW levels almost make no diference. And ability to multiclass is so developed there is almost no end to posibilities...