Great read and sums up the whole SOE/LA SWG debacle in a concise way.

SWG willg o down in MMO game history for mismanagement and i hope no other playerbase has to put up with constant crap that we've had to put up woth from the devs of the game.

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Originally posted by Amathe

Never in my life have I experienced such arrogance as with SOE and SWG. To say they wouldn't listen is like saying the ocean is wet, or that outer space is big. You just can't do justice to the magnitude of the concept  with words.

SOE is saying things NOW that were told to them in beta by many people, including me. Only back then, they not only didn't listen, they locked your threads as being "unconstructive."

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Originally posted by Squidi
Old news. Maybe this article could've had some value SIX MONTHS ago, but at this late stage in the game, it is little more than a grudge.

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You want to write something about SWG, why not send someone in there to write about the state of the game TODAY, not SIX MONTHS ago. Just in case you missed it, SIX MONTHS ago. Even in the real world, six months is old news.

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Just become some whiney vets still carry that grudge long past its expiration date (and look at how mature they are about it) does NOT make it relevant. It's just pandering, plain and simple.

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I beta tested and then went on to play SWG until the release of the NGE.  It used to be my favorite game by far.  It's a shame to see how it is now and even worse that they(SOE/LA) seem absolutely blind to it all.  Nobody wanted a WoW clone, we were largely happy with what we had.

Yes, there needed to be a focus on the GCW, DOTs needed to be addressed, more viable armor options outside of composite, insanely powerful doctor buffs, etc.  Addressing those issues alone would've alleviated many issues.  What we got instead were two completely differing combat systems, each leading to more subscription losses for SOE/LA. 

I've resubscribed  a few times to see if I can bear to play it, and I can't.  Now I'm looking at my next game(Vanguard) possibly running into similar issues with them bringing SOE in as co-publisher and seemingly revamping many features to become more mainstream. 

McQuaid from Sigil, like the SWG devs, seem to be unwilling to be able to admit they were wrong on any issues.  If SWG could suck it up and go back to what we enjoyed playing, I know at least 20+ people who would gladly resubscribe.  Imagine that on a large scale...

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Originally posted by iceman00

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Originally posted by Tauceti

Hi all,

1st, let me say that I thought this article was well written and covered many of our points extremely well.

2nd, let me say that I very happy someone has finally had the guts to write such an article. This article should be stickyed in the general discussion forum for future players. Lets also, hope that this start a trend by similar sites to stand up and write such articles. Maybe then the lights will be turned on at SOE / LA and they'll wake up and do something decent about this.

3rd, I agree with about 90% of what was said. I however feel that the Pre-CU SWG had awesome potential. If they had spent the time and effort fixing the bugs, make minor adjustment to the combat system, and avoided using the Nerf bat, we would still be playing a great game. Especially and most importantly if they had spent the time and resources developing a lot of content and a true GCW, then I firmly believe SWG would have gone over 500K in subscription. The Pre-CU SWG was trule revolutionary, I especially say this since I've looked for a replacement and have yet to find one.

Anyhow that my 2 cents.

IMO,

Tauceti

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Oh I agree the Pre-CU was revolutionary.  And I was an ardent fan of it, and still am.  However my focus was more based upon the reason why SOE/LA/your mother/ whoever it was that decided to make the changed.  :)

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Please don't mis-understand my intent on comment number 3. I was merely wanted to state that I felt that if SOE / LA had managed Pre-CU SWG better than it had, that it could have easily done much better in subscription. I also firmly believe if the game had a truly developed GCW, the way most fans of Star Wars and the game had invisioned [in many ways I think this is what many really meant when some said that wanted more of a Star Wars fell] it might have even competed quite well with WoW.

IMO,

Tauceti

hmmm, perhaps i should start a gaming site, i've been saying this since October-November when the first rumors about the NGE were starting to circulate.

i have started at least 5 threads on the Nazi boards saying exactly this, and all have been deleted rather quickly.

Nice article!!!

Sums up what peolple have been screaming about for months. It is nice to see it in such a highlighted state, on a website that has a dedicated MMO fan base.  Lets hope other MMORPGs listen to what has/is being said.

I loved Pre CU SWG (I loved pre holocron SWG even more) it was a virtual world that I loved to loose myself in.  To this day I compare every MMO I play to SWG.  And all come up short.  Unfortunatly the SWG I remeber is no longer, and most likely will never exist again.

Had SWG not had the CU or NGE, I'd still be playing, and I'd still be paying SOE a monthly subscription fee.

But I am still searchign for that game to replace classic SWG if a developer manages to recreate that world, I'd sign up in an instant.

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Originally posted by BigJonno
What makes it worse is that if there ever was a game that needed to stick to its guns, it was SWG. I played the game a couple of months after release and, barring the inevitable problems caused by releasing about six months early, the vast majority of the complaints were from people who just didn't get it. I remember the rallying cry of "please don't let this game be Everquest in space!" It wasn't, it was something completely different and I don't think anyone could have done a better job of recreating an existing setting.

It seems to me that there are two distinct types of MMO out there. Massively multiplayer online games and massively multiplayer online worlds. WoW is very much a MMOG, it is designed to be played in a certain way and everything is geared to creating a fun playing experience. It's probably why this style of game has so many endgame problems, but that's another topic. SWG was very much an online world. There was no particular goal, you were given the Star Wars universe and could live in it however you liked. The reliance on other players (outside of the normal grouping context) was very indicitive of this. The people who were complaining were those who wanted a game and not a world. They were the ones maxing out their characters and wondering what they were supposed to do next. Unfortunately they were a very vocal group and I think that SWG's downfall is a result of that group being listened to too closely.

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How many Vets remember what happened when the CU came out???

There was a gathering in Theed of players complaining about the Combat Upgrade and how no one wanted it! Remember what SOE did?

THEY BOOTED US ALL OUT OF THEED! CLOSED THE CITY TO EVERYONE.. BANNED ANY GATHERINGS AND EVEN BOOTED PAYING CUSTOMERS OFF THE GAME WHO VOICED THEIR COMPLAINTS.

Is it me or does SOE need some serious customer relations training?

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Originally posted by generis2

Although I agree with most points made in the editorial, I would like to offer another angle to be explored:

There is no doubt that WoW is the undisbuted King of MMO's.  It has generated more player base (i.e. introduced fresh people to MMO) than previouly thought possible.  With a market share of 50%+ across the major MMO titles (source: www.mmogchart.com), there is no way that SOE will allow to let the potential $$$ to silde.

it can be debated if WoW is currently hemorrhaging subscribers and in what amounts (I'll just assume there are and the peole leaving are looking for a new game to try). Even if it's a small fraction, it's still a considerable amount of people. 

SWG has about 1.5% share of the same market (same source as above).  If I am a SOE exec., i would seriously look at the possibility of WoW-ify-ing (trans: to make your current game play like WoW and appeal to current WoW patrons) my game and hope to attract the people leaving WoW in search of something new. 

From the point of $$$, even if SOE have to lose a fraction of the 1.5% in SWG to attract the possibility of a fraction of the 50% from WoW, it's an oppertunity they can not miss!

How does that sounds for an excuse? hehe

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Sure.  :)

However I think a few things are overlooked.  What made WoW so big?  Was it just the gameplay?  What made the gameplay really that much different from every other linear game?  However, WoW had reliable customer service, few if any bugs, and they were willing to stand behind their products, not consistently change them.

If SWG had followed these 3 principles before they talked about content, then they would've challenged WoW, easily.