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News & Features Discussion  » Star Wars Galaxies: Editorial: Audience Alienation

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381 posts found

Novice Member

Joined: 4/17/06
Posts: 37

6/13/06 10:19:03 AM#61
Great Article! It's what we're all thinking. We all hope SoE will return to pre CU, because that would bring back the older players and return the game to a stable player base. Of course, that would mean admitting mistake, which will not happen.

Novice Member

Joined: 11/13/05
Posts: 43

6/13/06 10:20:23 AM#62

Originally posted by MGRex

It is sad that they didnt bother paying more attention to us verteran's,  I honestly think the game would come back to its former glory if they just went back to what it was in the Original (Pre-CU) System.  The game was unique and wasnt like any other MMO out there.  Now its more like "The Clone Wars"  if anything, since everyone is the same.  If Sony Online Entertainment(SoE) or Lucasarts pay attention to this...then they should learn what thier mistakes are.  They lost thier subscriptions because of what they did to the game.  And I agree with what he said.  This is probably one of the best worded ways I've seen it said too.  Good Job! 

Totally agree--I hope SOE finally remembers this when the kiddies get tired and move on to the "next" game, leaving the Etch-A-Sketch servers completely empty.


Novice Member

Joined: 6/12/06
Posts: 28

6/13/06 10:28:27 AM#63
Great editorial! Sums up what SoE did to the game perfectly.

Such a shame they placed more importance in the mythical player than those actually playing the game.

When Sony and Lucas set out to create the NGE, we said, “How can we do this and make it similar to WoW?” We wanted it to be all about Iconic characters like Luke, combat and locking our players into a class. So we created a system that would restrict players and make all professions the same and there would be minimal gameplay around making that change. We definitely borrowed a lot of ideas from WoW that worked and figured out how to make them fit for SWG – Julio Torres (2005)


Novice Member

Joined: 12/01/05
Posts: 2487

What in HELL is an Aluminum Falcon?!?!?!

6/13/06 10:29:41 AM#64

Very well writen & absolutly right-on.

In the past it seemed like MMORPG was trying to ignore the outrage against SOE/LA, but there are quite a few more people angry about SOE/LA's actions than those that support them. Guess they're going with the gamers, having learned from SOE/LA's mistakes.

The one thing you have to give SOE/LA credit for is that I don't think anyone would have believed just how many people LOVED SWG if they hadn't given their players the finger, hehe.

The sad thing is that we were beginning to see an influx into Galaxies before the NGE from WoW players looking for more in a game. WoW players are starting to look for the next step beyond WoW, not a clone of it...

I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!

In fact, forget the SWG!!!!


Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/05
Posts: 2279

"Playing things I shouldn''t be playing since 1977."

6/13/06 10:31:42 AM#65

I do believe that the executives at SOE and LA are looking toward a time where games are downloaded, subscribed, and played on PS3 consoles.  That is the "mythical silent majority" they seem to want.

They may work to cross-platform it, but if they have to make a design decision in favor of PC playability, and console playability, they'll choose console.

That to me seems to be the only explaination for these changes.  If I were a betting man, I'd say expect a massive graphics update for PS3, the elimination of trader and entertainer, and the elimination of the chatbox and command syntax.  They could probably eliminate all the subtle non-combat aspects right now, and combat would be unphased.

Yet I am not sure the console market wants "massive online."  They may be very good at online content such as Madden, and Halo, but these are peer-to-peer online games, and hard coded.  Playing with thousands of strangers on common servers with no offline option is a different matter entirely, and there are legal, ergonomic, contextual, and customer service issues that are frankly too insurmountable to make a console MMO a realistic alternative.  All it takes is one 25 year old powergamer to trash talk a nine year old over headsets after a PvP conflict, and it will create a contraversy that will dwarf GTA's "Hot Coffee."

So I agree with Mr. Tierney's article, and thank for publishing it, for the article is a nice gesture to the ones that make this genre great: the fans, and the players.  But I think the "mythical silent majority" the game is being modeled for are not even present yet.  They are not, because they are going to be the consumers of a console that does not yet exist, buying into a genre that they may not want, playing a game they might rather play at a desk, with the versatility of a keyboard.

I do want to say in closing though that this whole radical and disrespectful redefinition with SWG was bound to happen sooner or later.  This is what happens when a developer's pereogatives are too broad, and the industry is too obsessed with novelty.

"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."

"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE


Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 552

6/13/06 10:33:53 AM#66
Someone forward this article to L.A.

Can't WAIT!


Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/04
Posts: 337

6/13/06 10:34:34 AM#67
Dead on, "take care of your existing customers".

Novice Member

Joined: 8/19/04
Posts: 47

6/13/06 10:35:24 AM#68

Great article, excellent points, but it's already all been said before and ignored by SOE/LA.

They took a great online environment for role playing and destroyed it despite their subscribers' input.

The game is dead... let it die.



Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/05
Posts: 128

6/13/06 10:36:42 AM#69
SOE makes baby Jesus cry.


Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/05
Posts: 1

6/13/06 10:40:50 AM#70
Very well written.

Novice Member

Joined: 1/02/06
Posts: 132

A great many truths depend greatly upon our point of view.

6/13/06 10:44:05 AM#71
This is great article, and sums up exactly what happened. It's nice to see someone take notice, even if it isn't the company that should take notice!

Well done, kudos to the author.


Novice Member

Joined: 4/29/05
Posts: 65

Be a leader not a follower, and play what you enjoy. Don''t worry about what others are doing.

6/13/06 10:44:10 AM#72

Amen brother!

We spoke out before the CURB, they didn't listen.

Then again before the NGE, again, they didn't listen.

Kevin has totally hit the nail square on the head!

'nuff said

RIP SWG, it was fun while it lasted.

EVE 4Ever!



Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/04
Posts: 55

6/13/06 10:50:46 AM#73

Probably part of the SOE / Lucas Arts corporate pyschology was to cater to the wishes of their shareholders. They deliberately left the SWG player base (Pre NGE) in the dark since they knew well enough. That the player base would be bitching and screaming a resounding "No". So this omelette that we now have called SWG: NGE was more so directed to their shareholders than to its consumer base.

The NGE will be the poster boy of what not to do to a MMORPG with an already set game design.

After this continues some more with the blood lettiing of subscribers. SOE will be doing an about face bringing back a Classic SWG server, but by than it may be too late for the game itself overall.

The Older Gamers


Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/05
Posts: 1035

"Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate, Hate leads to Suffering" -Master Yoda

6/13/06 11:02:56 AM#74
Personaly, I'm glad that MMORPG has finally done an article on this topic. SOE has gone on for far too long ignoring their fanbase and as with many MMO's out there they seem to forget what their forums are for. They are meant to give FEEDBACK to FIX or RESOLVE issues within the game. Topics dealing with item trading or guilds recruiting in forums are "side-effects" of having forums, but their main purpose is to create a voice to the Devs, something SOE and a few other MMO's seem to enjoy ignoring. I played SWG for almost 3 yrs, and once upon a time I actually enjoyed playing my jedi knight in that game before the CU and the NGE, even with groups of BH hunting me and the risk of permadeath back in the early parts of SWG.  I admit I am a huge Star Wars fan, but I could only be a glutton for punishment for so long before I gave up on SWG. My hope is that either SOE gets a clue miraculously or another game developer decides to create a Star Wars MMO that will stay true to its fanbase.

Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/04
Posts: 3

6/13/06 11:04:56 AM#75

Originally posted by Cutedge
I appreciate your article, however part of me is sad because I doubt SOE will ever talk to you about SWG again. 
I wish would start flexing their journalistic muscle and flip all online gaming companies the finger. Gaming companies should pander to, as it is the best source for MMORPG players--the hard core type who subscribe to multiple MMOs for years at a time.

We need more editorials like this one. Who cares about the meaningless interviews? Give me some online gaming dirt and point the finger at the lousy developers out there.

Novice Member

Joined: 3/23/06
Posts: 512

6/13/06 11:08:39 AM#76

THis is very true. all we wanted was to feel more like we are in the starwars universe. to me this is what they needed to make CU a hit:

1. restrict the jedi from abusing there powers in pvp settings.

2. add in depth quests and profession specific quests.

3. add a smuggling system

4. set gcw in motion

5. make a better balance in the economy

i really feel like this would hve been alot easier then what they are doing now.


Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/04
Posts: 103

6/13/06 11:15:10 AM#77

Originally posted by Lepidus

As anyone who visits our boards knows, the Star Wars Galaxies community has been vocally speaking out against the NGE and other changes to that game over the last year. Kevin Tierney jumps in to examine the alienation of that community in this editorial.

There probably has been no MMORPG that has caused more controversy than Sony Online Entertainment’s (SOE) Star Wars Galaxies. It’s core game has been fundamentally altered twice, and debate has still been very intense, even six months after the latest revision, the “New Game Enhancements.” (NGE) While one can look for varying reasons as to why such changes were made, one is obvious: people, from LucasArts representatives Nancy Macintyre and Julio Torres, to numerous developers, all the way to the head of SOE John Smedley himself have argued that the changes were necessary to truly attract a crowd worthy of Star Wars. I believe this approach is flawed for numerous reasons.

One problem the MMO market is that it is currently experiencing what I call “The WoW effect.” When World of Warcraft was released to stunning success, it redefined what a successful MMO was. Before this, 500,000 customers of an MMO was a very respectable number. Right before the first changes (i.e. Combat Upgrade) SWG reportedly floated at around 300-350,000, again quite respectable pre-WoW. The release of WoW caused SOE/LucasArts to radically alter the originally planned “rebalance” to an “upgrade” that not only incorporated many of Blizzard’s features, but also added a ton of bugs to boot. SWG was simply not compatible with a linear style WoW gameplay. Those who wanted WoW’s features were already playing WoW, without the bugs. While the CU had overall mixed results, one thing was clear, subscriptions were down.

You can read his full opinion here.

Working as intended.....


Novice Member

Joined: 5/29/06
Posts: 60

6/13/06 11:15:52 AM#78

I think one of the biggest problems with all the changes made to SWG does not lie with the game itself. It is the damaging of any reputation that SOE had.

SOE have managed to not only destroy a single game, but by the nature of destroying players acheivements and wasting the time they have spent since SWG was launched, they have caused those players and many more to lose all faith in SOE themselves. This does not just damage SWG but any future projects that SOE plan to put on the market.

Many of us here will already have read negative attitudes towards Vanguard since it being taken under the wing of SOE. Granted the game is only being hosted by SOE - but do you really TRUST them now not to interfere ?

I think SOE will feel the impact of the changes they have made for many years to come and this could well prevent them from releasing any MMO that would match the subscriber numbers of WoW. One of the worst things any player can suffer online is it to have their character hacked or deleted - SOE have managed to do this themselves to their entire SWG userbase and it is unacceptable.

This has to go down in history as one of the biggest mistakes in computer gaming, period.


Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/06
Posts: 16

6/13/06 11:25:48 AM#79

Although I agree with most points made in the editorial, I would like to offer another angle to be explored:

There is no doubt that WoW is the undisbuted King of MMO's.  It has generated more player base (i.e. introduced fresh people to MMO) than previouly thought possible.  With a market share of 50%+ across the major MMO titles (source:, there is no way that SOE will allow to let the potential $$$ to silde.

it can be debated if WoW is currently hemorrhaging subscribers and in what amounts (I'll just assume there are and the peole leaving are looking for a new game to try). Even if it's a small fraction, it's still a considerable amount of people. 

SWG has about 1.5% share of the same market (same source as above).  If I am a SOE exec., i would seriously look at the possibility of WoW-ify-ing (trans: to make your current game play like WoW and appeal to current WoW patrons) my game and hope to attract the people leaving WoW in search of something new. 

From the point of $$$, even if SOE have to lose a fraction of the 1.5% in SWG to attract the possibility of a fraction of the 50% from WoW, it's an oppertunity they can not miss!

How does that sounds for an excuse? hehe


Novice Member

Joined: 10/12/05
Posts: 157

6/13/06 11:29:32 AM#80
Good article

Thanks to MMORPG to hosting it, hopefully the MMO companies will read it and see it as an example of what not to do to your customers.

SWG - Killed by $OE
WOW - Retired
Playing WAR

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