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News & Features Discussion  » Star Wars Galaxies: Editorial: Audience Alienation

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381 posts found
  kefkah

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/04
Posts: 851

6/13/06 9:24:00 AM#41

I see someone took you up on your offer, Dana. Very glad someone did. This article is well written and a sterling example of how editorials can provide a refreshing read. MMORPG has been putting up some fine ones in the last couple months. Keep it up.

I completely agree with the writer. Chasing the golden ring did the #1 no no in MMORPG land. Alienating your existing fanbase. Not only that but publicly stating that thier loss was a calculated risk. Its true that in the end, it is all a numbers game but such a blantant and uneven approach is hardly considered advancement nor helpful in fostering loyalty among subscribers and their rule of 7.

Good write. Needed to be said.

Kudos.

  LilT

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/06
Posts: 635

Pre-cu FTW <3

6/13/06 9:26:23 AM#42
very nice article, but as someone stated earlier, a bit late lol.

For the Horde!

  shae

Novice Member

Joined: 5/06/05
Posts: 2511

"Don''t take life seriously because you can''t come out of it alive."

- Warren Miller

6/13/06 9:27:29 AM#43

Very well written and preciessly why I quit when I did.

For myself, any MMO needs not just simply be playable, it needs to creat an environment that I can grow in , trust and count on when I log in.

After playing SWG for well over a year and a half, I found myself in a game that had little to nothing to do with what I had enjoyed for so much time, unfortunately so much so that I was now lost and dazed (not all that strange for me but still...) to a point where I could not get comfy anymore, feeling almost out of place.

Even now I remember thinking, what else is going to happen? What if my game is changed to a point where I can't even recognize it, what if they get rid of crafting and dancing and image designing. What if resource collecting becomes easy and what if they give out Jedi's to everyone.

I left because of that feeling, the uncertainty of it all drove me away finally. Then, low and behold some time later, it happened, the NGE.

Of course I wont say that I was happy that it happened, because I wasn't at all. I will admit though that I sort of sat back and sighed with relief, being greatful that I had gotten out when I had, lessened the pain and all that. I felt bad for friends who were still playing, but by that time, that number was pretty minimal, mostly I was sad for all that had been lost.

Sure SWG was just a game, you always have to keep that in context with MMO's, constantly reminding yourself that life goes on and there's a real world out there. But still, there's a sadness around the experience, mostly huddled in with great memories of the game.

Logging on to be greeted by all your friends, late night parties at someone's "virtual" house, new discoveries made, crazy characters doing crazy things, auctions, waiting at starports listening and partaking in crazy conversations, the yavin and naboo bars, random and strangely pretty sandstorms. /sigh, a list that goes on and on.

Well anyways, that's enough about that, great article though, something about hitting the nail on the thumb, no no thats head, yeah head, that's right .

  badpuppy1

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/05
Posts: 35

For $15 a month you better give me a better world!!!!

6/13/06 9:34:42 AM#44

Excellent, well written and on target.  I played for 19 months, had three active accounts.  I was unhappy but accepted the CU but NGE put all my characters and time in game in the garbage.

This WAS a great game ruined by greedy, corporate pin heads.

RIP SWG.

  jimcgilbert

Novice Member

Joined: 7/23/04
Posts: 9

6/13/06 9:38:41 AM#45
Yep this is the best I have heard After what Sony had done to this game I won't even look at another product of thiers because this is what they do with all of thier stuff.  Its a shame that they took potentialy the greatest franchise and Sh*t on it like that and Lucus let them do it.  :((

Thanks

Jim

  BadT

Novice Member

Joined: 6/12/06
Posts: 84

6/13/06 9:40:29 AM#46

Very nicely done. This entire article can apply to many games, not just the SWG fiasco. Many other ongoing games , recent releases and those to come should all take these words and think about them.

kudos Kevin.

  Gonodil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/21/04
Posts: 355

Dominator of failed writers.

6/13/06 9:42:25 AM#47

Looks like someone at SoE managed to bash some sense into a manager, so they making a Classic(esque) server.

From the looks of things it's drawing a lot of very old players back, and even some newbs, from what I've seen on the beta server.

Who knows, if it works out well, it might get that cartoonish $ $ in SoEs eyes when looking at SWG potential and they will make a classic server for SWG as well.

Me personaly? I quit when they made me unable to hunt the jedi bountyheads.

  ebenholt

Novice Member

Joined: 3/23/06
Posts: 312

6/13/06 9:42:32 AM#48

Originally posted by BigJonno
What makes it worse is that if there ever was a game that needed to stick to its guns, it was SWG. I played the game a couple of months after release and, barring the inevitable problems caused by releasing about six months early, the vast majority of the complaints were from people who just didn't get it. I remember the rallying cry of "please don't let this game be Everquest in space!" It wasn't, it was something completely different and I don't think anyone could have done a better job of recreating an existing setting.

It seems to me that there are two distinct types of MMO out there. Massively multiplayer online games and massively multiplayer online worlds. WoW is very much a MMOG, it is designed to be played in a certain way and everything is geared to creating a fun playing experience. It's probably why this style of game has so many endgame problems, but that's another topic. SWG was very much an online world. There was no particular goal, you were given the Star Wars universe and could live in it however you liked. The reliance on other players (outside of the normal grouping context) was very indicitive of this. The people who were complaining were those who wanted a game and not a world. They were the ones maxing out their characters and wondering what they were supposed to do next. Unfortunately they were a very vocal group and I think that SWG's downfall is a result of that group being listened to too closely.

I agree with you!

"There are two kinds of spurs, my friend. Those that come in by the door; those that come in by the window"

  hakenaton

Novice Member

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 15

6/13/06 9:43:23 AM#49
Great article! Resumes very well the situation. Hopefully MMO will start taking care of their actual players to keep them.
  Shanks123

Novice Member

Joined: 1/01/06
Posts: 108

I''m Here. I''m Awesome. Get Used To It.

6/13/06 9:44:10 AM#50
summed it up really nice man
your right the easyest way to get more pple to play is word f mouth get yoru vets happy and they will bring there freinds

I'm Here. I'm Awesome. Get Used To It.

  Lightleaf

Novice Member

Joined: 10/31/04
Posts: 60

6/13/06 9:45:12 AM#51

It's really quite sad that even SOE has to blame their problems on WoW.

SWG failed because LucasArts/SOE didn't listen to their community and went on with their decisions-- that quite horribly failed.

SWG would've been great with the NGE if only they had added more content for those who didn't exactly have level 80 in the cross-over.

raelos Xfire Miniprofile
  Munka

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/04
Posts: 255

6/13/06 9:48:11 AM#52

Thats got to be one of the best articals I've read in a long time, well done!

  Tauceti

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/24/06
Posts: 168

"There is no such thing as coincidence; just other peoples plans you have no knowledge of."

6/13/06 9:53:26 AM#53

Hi all,

1st, let me say that I thought this article was well written and covered many of our points extremely well.

2nd, let me say that I very happy someone has finally had the guts to write such an article. This article should be stickyed in the general discussion forum for future players. Lets also, hope that this start a trend by similar sites to stand up and write such articles. Maybe then the lights will be turned on at SOE / LA and they'll wake up and do something decent about this.

3rd, I agree with about 90% of what was said. I however feel that the Pre-CU SWG had awesome potential. If they had spent the time and effort fixing the bugs, make minor adjustment to the combat system, and avoided using the Nerf bat, we would still be playing a great game. Especially and most importantly if they had spent the time and resources developing a lot of content and a true GCW, then I firmly believe SWG would have gone over 500K in subscription. The Pre-CU SWG was trule revolutionary, I especially say this since I've looked for a replacement and have yet to find one.

Anyhow that my 2 cents.

IMO,

Tauceti

  Roin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/12/03
Posts: 2875

6/13/06 9:53:33 AM#54

Originally posted by Fatbast

When SOE took the SWG licence they did so because at that time they were the number one MMO 'specialists' in the business thanks of course to Everquest.  However it is worth nothing that Everquest was at that point beginning to show some signs of weakening thanks to the arrival of titles such as Anarchy Online, Asherons Call 2, Earth and Beyond and a few others still sat on my shelf.

During their time at the number one spot the criticisms levelled at SOE had largely been a poor customer service experience and under that what we would deem the 'usual' bugs,balance and content.  Nothing spectacular.  Its worth noting however that the way that SOE handled these complaints was with an almost mind blowing arrogance.

You play the game or leave, your choice - pretty much how it went.

This was not confined to EQ.  Those that followed also appeared to follow this 'Dev Culture' by ignoring the player base, working to some unfathomable agenda, dodging requests for Test Servers and producing third rate content.

Then the cracks began to show.  Whilst games like AO and DaOC had problems of their own players were now letting go of thier characters and slowly subs were falling.  For all thier faults the new companys were at least engaging thier players on the forums - AO especially worked hard after a disasterous launch to prove itself worthy to the cash paying public.

SOE released SWG as the biggest thing since sliced bread - And why not? A title as hot as Star Wars deserves a fanfare. What they did not do was alter their approach to the playerbase.

Even with the eventual demise of AC2 / Earth and Beyond and many "In production games" SOE decided to ignore the warning signs that the public was clearly able to hit that cancel subscription button.

When WoW hit it was as biggest event in MMO's. Even with the usual gamut of release issues, this was the 'something' else that people had been waiting for.  The exodos from other titles must have been felt across the MMO world and caused some serious re-thinks on the financial planning boards.  Buckle down, work on content and customer service and weather the storm by maintaining a quality product.

SOE took a different strategem.  In a fell swoop they REMOVED classes that some players had been developing since release day. They reduced the work that the hardcore few had put in to obtain the legendary Jedi status (You are our only hope Luke?) and instituted a "push this button to become a Jedi" option.  They had the audacity to damand payment for expansions that were virtually required to level the upper band of the classes (Mustafar) and the content was, probably SOEs most consistent feature - bugged to high hell.

The end result was what you see now. Empty cities, Player cities turning to dust and a server screen that has  LOW LOW LOW LOW LOW LOW across the board.

On the horizon are Vanguard, Pirates of the Burning Sea, Gods and Heroes, WoW Exp number 1 and a host of Niche games....good news for gamers everywhere.

Not so good for SOE.

In short you reap what you sow.  Sony is gathering the harvest of a disrespectful and arrogant attitude to the very people that feed and clothe its employees. 

Makes me feel all warm inside.



And that is exactly why I think Sony will probably eventually end up losing the console war as well.   Nintendo at one point was king of the hill.  They to were so blinded by their arrogance that Sony had no problem coming along and stealing the crown from them.   With a CD based expansion drive that was originally designed for the SNES, no less.

Sony and all it's divisions as of late have proven to be very arrogant in their practices.  If they don't take a step back, and realize that you can only push customers around so much.   They'll end up losing ground on electronics, consoles, and music sales.   Much like they have lost their spot as the so called #1 MMO maker.

In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.

  TheTooke

Novice Member

Joined: 10/28/05
Posts: 53

6/13/06 9:56:59 AM#55


Originally posted by Munka
Thats got to be one of the best articals I've read in a long time, well done!


Agreed, no yelling and screaming like reading angry threads, just straight and to the point. I hope the high ups at SOE and Lucas Arts at least read this article. This is exactly the kind of thing that happens when you get money hungry and lost sight of your first vision. Well done article! ::::20::

Robots will kill you!

  hYpe*

Novice Member

Joined: 6/09/06
Posts: 27

History: SWG,EQ2,WoW,Eve,SoR,AoC
Playing atm: Vanguard

Cancelled SWG on 11/28/05

6/13/06 9:59:16 AM#56
nice article... nothing to add here :)

-------------------------------
http://www.rallyphoto.net

  User Deleted
6/13/06 10:01:01 AM#57

Thanks for putting the article up MMORPG.COM.
Nicely written and well said.

::::20::

  Stormsender

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/04
Posts: 39

6/13/06 10:08:14 AM#58

Just to add my 2 cents on the subject. I not only won't play anything SWG, I won't buy another Sony game or product, period. They have proven time and time again they can't be trusted, they get a big Zero for consumer confidence in my mind.

  defafnyr

Novice Member

Joined: 6/28/04
Posts: 83

Don''t make me break out my flying monkeys.

6/13/06 10:11:34 AM#59

Originally posted by ebenholt

Originally posted by BigJonno
What makes it worse is that if there ever was a game that needed to stick to its guns, it was SWG. I played the game a couple of months after release and, barring the inevitable problems caused by releasing about six months early, the vast majority of the complaints were from people who just didn't get it. I remember the rallying cry of "please don't let this game be Everquest in space!" It wasn't, it was something completely different and I don't think anyone could have done a better job of recreating an existing setting.

It seems to me that there are two distinct types of MMO out there. Massively multiplayer online games and massively multiplayer online worlds. WoW is very much a MMOG, it is designed to be played in a certain way and everything is geared to creating a fun playing experience. It's probably why this style of game has so many endgame problems, but that's another topic. SWG was very much an online world. There was no particular goal, you were given the Star Wars universe and could live in it however you liked. The reliance on other players (outside of the normal grouping context) was very indicitive of this. The people who were complaining were those who wanted a game and not a world. They were the ones maxing out their characters and wondering what they were supposed to do next. Unfortunately they were a very vocal group and I think that SWG's downfall is a result of that group being listened to too closely.

I agree with you!

I'll whole heartedly second that!
  Cutedge

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/05
Posts: 92

WTB sci-fi mmo PST

6/13/06 10:11:40 AM#60
I appreciate your article, however part of me is sad because I doubt SOE will ever talk to you about SWG again. 
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